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OfflineHighHarles
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Spawn Nutrition Q
    #26396519 - 12/22/19 10:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Okay, so I understand your spawn is more important than your substrate. Should you focus on implement nutrients during spawn colonization? Maybe implementing some aspects of bottle teks.
This is the statement gives me hope for that thought.
"Highly nutritious substrate materials like dog food, bran or BRF can be added. another great benefit is the fact that no spawning to bulk is required. once colonised your mycelium never needs to be broken up. this makes contamination less of a worry. It also saves your mycelium from wasting energy on recovering after a shake." - MudaFuka's Updated Bottle Tek New and improved
I dont think too many substrate materials are necessary just a filler material to keep between the oats so it could aide recovery time after a shake


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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: HighHarles]
    #26396522 - 12/22/19 10:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Spawn is only 1 part of the equation and we often have too much nutrition going into things but cubes not being as aggressive as things like oysters we can't do the 1:10 with the same success rates so we take simplicity as an advantage.
I do a lot of bottle type grows they are great


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: cronicr]
    #26396531 - 12/22/19 10:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think I should refine the reasoning behind my question
a bulk sub is reliant on the quality of spawn which is dependent on the quality of myc result a genetics quality. my current understanding leads me to believe the sub mix is the most basic part of the myceliums diet. Simple coir with verm, maybe.
If you're focusing on premium cultures/prints, then highest quality agar plates. Why wouldnt you focus on making jars that would have almost enough nutrients to produce fruits?


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: HighHarles]
    #26396543 - 12/22/19 11:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

A post on a thread had mentioned that insect frass was a balanced supplement that was worth expirementing with but I haven't seen any grow logs with it.


Edit:
Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
the best additive i have found(and ive tried loads) imo is insect frass.

hpoo naturally has some.

its full of chitin, protein, amino acids,minerals and a balance of nitrogen and potassium that is agreeable.

most nurition is in acceptable forms for the mycelium.

its cheap(just a handful in a mono will do)

have no conclusive proof of effects but seems increase speed of colonisation and improve size and health of fruits but no increase in potency(least not measurable and only MS used so cant tell).

insect frass is the perfect additive i have used for years.
it beats coffee for contam resist and has the nitrogen.
it has lots of protein and amino acids and minerals.
the chitin will get broken down and assimilated.
i guess minimal potash and phospor will be used too.

i have only used with MS grows tbh
and my hpoo has traces from alfalfa too.
so no idea what does what really  but it consistently preforms better in looks! lol

if you want to add something, be that for what ever goal, insect frass will do you good.
nearly all ground fungi get a quota of dead decaying insect frass in nature.
this is one area our subs lack compared with nature.

i would love to see others try out insect frass to see if they get the same results!
as far as i know im the only guy on the net to use them or have tried them in mycology :smile:

i regard it as my secret weapon lol
hpoo+verm+gysum+frass 





Edited by HighHarles (12/22/19 11:22 PM)


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: HighHarles]
    #26397282 - 12/23/19 11:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Bump


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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: HighHarles]
    #26397338 - 12/23/19 12:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Bro use coir and verm it has all the nutrients you need for substrate.
Or just go with manure substrate you can mix it with coir and verm. You dont need all the extra stuff. If you want to get fancy throw in some gypsum.
Once you start growing new species you can experiment with new substrates like wood for wood lover and straw for oysters, manure for cyans, etc.
These additives that you are planning to use a are likely not going to lead to improved speed, growth, or potency and if they did it wouldn't even be noticeable.
Save yourself some hassle and continue using coir until you get better at growing and understand growing parameters then progress from there.
That way you will atleast have a baseline to compare the results of your experiments to.
Anyways goodluck with whatever you decide but your not going to get alot of answers on your insect frass question. Most people here just use coir to grow cubes and alot of this stuff you are digging up is very outdated so it's not likely OP is going to reply.


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: gizmo1]
    #26397512 - 12/23/19 01:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not trying to mix with the substrate I'm talking about the spawn.
If the spawn was more nutrients rich would this improve its life inside the tub?
I have a fairly good grasp until it comes to tubs. I'm only using coir this time, without verm. (Unless I fuck up field capacity and need a save) so I would have a baseline to gauge off of. I dont think you're really picking up what I'm putting down. I'm gonna try it and just see what happens one of these times when I prep jars

The thread may be 4 years old but brings up the point that insect frass is a consistent food source for a variety of species.


Edited by HighHarles (12/23/19 01:38 PM)


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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: HighHarles]
    #26397840 - 12/23/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HighHarles said:
I'm not trying to mix with the substrate I'm talking about the spawn.
If the spawn was more nutrients rich would this improve its life inside the tub?
I have a fairly good grasp until it comes to tubs. I'm only using coir this time, without verm. (Unless I fuck up field capacity and need a save) so I would have a baseline to gauge off of. I dont think you're really picking up what I'm putting down. I'm gonna try it and just see what happens one of these times when I prep jars

The thread may be 4 years old but brings up the point that insect frass is a consistent food source for a variety of species.



Yea I probably am misreading you. Do you mind posting the link to the thread around insect fras?
I like to add coffee and gypsum to my grain when soaking.
If doing a bottle tek you are bassically making a big cake if I remember correctly not really spawn(I'll look it up after this to make sure).
If spawning I wouldn't add a lot to the grain I'd leave it basic as to not slow down the colonization or muddy up the jars.
What do you hope to achieve by adding supplements to the grain faster colonization or better potency?


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: gizmo1]
    #26397977 - 12/23/19 05:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The idea is to improve colonization/shake recovery time.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21887313#21887313
I'm not trying to do a bottle tek perse but use a few take aways from the idea.

I definitely need to expirement more and explore the idea. Get a better understanding of the do and don'ts.
The way I would imagine using it would be adding a few tbs at a time to each jar until it was enough to cover the oats. If successful finding the right ratio/% would be a test. The oats would have already been prepped (boiled n dry) mixed then thrown into a pc. I think insect frass would turn into goop if soaked. Frass n moisture might cause clumping. Which shouldn't be an issue in most cases. Gypsum may become a requirement if clumping does become an issue. But if it's any more problematic it's not an Avenue worth pursuing. This seems to be an aspect of nutrition that hasnt had much light shed on it.

I'll withdraw my thoughts in regards to the effect on development within the substrate. I think I had the wrong idea originally, but would still like to pursue this. Strong spawn makes strong tub. I would like to keep my tubs consistent until I get more experience maintaining moisture content.

I am understanding that variables such as colonization/potency are heavily dependent on genetics. I'm not worried about potency at this time.

I appreciate the feedback,  best regards
-DoubleH


Edited by HighHarles (12/23/19 05:27 PM)


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: HighHarles]
    #26398058 - 12/23/19 06:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HighHarles said:
The idea is to improve colonization/shake recovery time.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21887313#21887313
I'm not trying to do a bottle tek perse but use a few take aways from the idea.

I definitely need to expirement more and explore the idea. Get a better understanding of the do and don'ts.
The way I would imagine using it would be adding a few tbs at a time to each jar until it was enough to cover the oats. If successful finding the right ratio/% would be a test. The oats would have already been prepped (boiled n dry) mixed then thrown into a pc. I think insect frass would turn into goop if soaked. Frass n moisture might cause clumping. Which shouldn't be an issue in most cases. Gypsum may become a requirement if clumping does become an issue. But if it's any more problematic it's not an Avenue worth pursuing. This seems to be an aspect of nutrition that hasnt had much light shed on it.

I'll withdraw my thoughts in regards to the effect on development within the substrate. I think I had the wrong idea originally, but would still like to pursue this. Strong spawn makes strong tub. I would like to keep my tubs consistent until I get more experience maintaining moisture content.

I am understanding that variables such as colonization/potency are heavily dependent on genetics. I'm not worried about potency at this time.

I appreciate the feedback,  best regards
-DoubleH



Yea so you already touched on the main point of it being more dependent on genetics. So you already understand that and we can leave that out of the rest of the discussion here.
Then another point I would like to touch on... so if you increase nutrients you will in theory be slowing mycelium colonization speed. If you decrease nutrients THEN this should speed up colonization speed.

So it is believed that mycelium will slow down in a higher nutrient environment. Sort of chillin getting fat and enjoying its bounty.
But then when mycelium is put into a low nutrient environment it is believed that the mycelium spreads out faster in search of food or nutrition.

As far as recovery speed(genetics aside) I think this would have more to do with grain size and gaps between the grains. In my mind if the mycelium has less of a gap to jump its will recover faster onto uncolonized grains. I have no proof of this it's just a theory of mine. I feel like a mix of the right size grains is more important than additives to the grain.


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Edited by gizmo1 (12/23/19 06:14 PM)


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: gizmo1]
    #26398293 - 12/23/19 08:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Recovery on normal spawn after a shake, is typically around 24 hours anyway.

I might be confused on the goal here. What are you trying to find out?


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: Spawn Nutrition Q [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #26398393 - 12/23/19 10:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'll just make a grow log in the future and see what happens. It probably wont be anything note worthy but I'd love to dive into my curiosity here. Might as well make some contribution to the community while I'm active with posts n learning


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