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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26288537 - 10/30/19 10:06 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

koods said:
...the US recognized Guaidó as the leader of Venezuela and his envoy to the US.



Yes, but Guaido is not the elected leader of Venezuela. Like it or not, they had an election, and Guaido wasn't even a candidate. The US can't just decide who to recognize as the leader of a country.



Oh we can decide who to recognize.  But it's not necessarily the same person as that country chooses to recognize.  :wink:


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26288557 - 10/30/19 10:17 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

koods said:
...the US recognized Guaidó as the leader of Venezuela and his envoy to the US.



Yes, but Guaido is not the elected leader of Venezuela. Like it or not, they had an election, and Guaido wasn't even a candidate. The US can't just decide who to recognize as the leader of a country.



Oh we can decide who to recognize.  But it's not necessarily the same person as that country chooses to recognize.  :wink:




Exactly. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it isn’t what happened.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26288561 - 10/30/19 10:20 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

koods said:
That’s fine. USAID is certainly part propaganda. I’m just hoping people like fal can see that Chavez was doing the same thing.




People like you see it as evil when Chavez does it, and 'meh', when the US does it. Right or wrong, they are equivalent. I don't think any government cares about the citizens of any foreign country. They have a hard enough time caring about their own citizens. The US doesn't give a shit about Venezuelan citizens, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Any aid, or involvement we have there is in the interest of the US, not Venezuela, including this coup d'etat.




I never said it was evil. I don’t really have a huge problem with Chavez. He was an authoritarian and his following was a cult of personality. But he was totally incompetent and destroyed Venezuela’s economy:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #26288568 - 10/30/19 10:23 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

So, I guess at this point I'm just curious what you think of the attempted Coup d'etat in Venezuela. Do you still support it?


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26288608 - 10/30/19 10:50 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

I support the Venezuelan people’s attempts to remove the dictator Nicolás Maduro


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #26288671 - 10/30/19 11:23 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Oh we can decide who to recognize.  But it's not necessarily the same person as that country chooses to recognize.  :wink:



Exactly. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it isn’t what happened.



So because US leadership says we want our guy in charge, that means Venezuela has to obey?


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26288767 - 10/31/19 12:27 AM (8 months, 6 days ago)

No but that’s the team that gets to occupy the embassy in DC


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #26288783 - 10/31/19 12:53 AM (8 months, 6 days ago)

No, the Venezuelan embassy in Washington is Venezuelan sovereign territory under international law.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26288894 - 10/31/19 03:08 AM (8 months, 6 days ago)

And it can be occupied by the government the US recognizes. The host country has total say over who gets diplomatic status and who doesn’t


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #26288898 - 10/31/19 03:14 AM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Maduro withdrew his diplomatic staff from the embassy, and the US did the same in Caracas.

The USA has no obligation to recognize the legitimacy of any government and our choice not to recognize Maduro as legimate is a good call. Maduro is a dictator who has turned Venezuela into a failed state


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #26289835 - 10/31/19 01:24 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
And it can be occupied by the government the US recognizes. The host country has total say over who gets diplomatic status and who doesn’t



Source, or make believe?  That's like saying Russia can choose whomever they want to staff our US embassy in Russia.

Quote:

koods said:
The USA has no obligation to recognize the legitimacy of any government and our choice not to recognize Maduro as legimate is a good call.



You think recognizing a guy who never got elected President is a good call?  You clearly hate democracy.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26289841 - 10/31/19 01:27 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

The election was neither free nor fair.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #26289842 - 10/31/19 01:28 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Maduro is a dictator who has turned Venezuela into a failed state



You must have missed this post:

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Economic Sanctions as Collective Punishment: The Case of Venezuela
Quote:

Executive Summary

This paper looks at some of the most important impacts of the economic sanctions imposed on Venezuela by the US government since August of 2017. It finds that most of the impact of these sanctions has not been on the government but on the civilian population.

The sanctions reduced the public’s caloric intake, increased disease and mortality (for both adults and infants), and displaced millions of Venezuelans who fled the country as a result of the worsening economic depression and hyperinflation. They exacerbated Venezuela’s economic crisis and made it nearly impossible to stabilize the economy, contributing further to excess deaths. All of these impacts disproportionately harmed the poorest and most vulnerable Venezuelans.

We find that the sanctions have inflicted, and increasingly inflict, very serious harm to human life and health, including an estimated more than 40,000 deaths from 2017–2018; and that these sanctions would fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions, to which the US is a signatory. They are also illegal under international law and treaties which the US has signed, and would appear to violate US law as well.







The US sanctions causing an estimated 40,000 deaths is not insignificant.


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/31/19 03:37 PM)


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #26289870 - 10/31/19 01:42 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The election was neither free nor fair.



Yes, I talked about US election meddling in Venezuela here.  But Maduro won anyway.  Guaidó didn't even bother to run in his country's elections, because he knew he'd lose.  He (and you) think he should lead Venezuela by coup.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26397559 - 12/23/19 01:56 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

So the small portion of Venezuelan soldiers who defected to Juan Guaido and his extreme failure of a US backed coup attempt tried to flee to America and are now being held in ICE detention facilities.

https://twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1209072147706077184?s=21


That’s what you get for trusting the CIA. Get fucked morons.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26397565 - 12/23/19 01:58 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

:rofl2:


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26397576 - 12/23/19 02:04 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So the small portion of Venezuelan soldiers who defected to Juan Guaido and his extreme failure of a US backed coup attempt tried to flee to America and are now being held in ICE detention facilities.

https://twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1209072147706077184?s=21


That’s what you get for trusting the CIA. Get fucked morons.






sounds about right.  though i wouldn't count a twitter post as a credible source


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26397588 - 12/23/19 02:11 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Read the quoted Telemundo article then


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #26397589 - 12/23/19 02:12 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So the small portion of Venezuelan soldiers who defected to Juan Guaido and his extreme failure of a US backed coup attempt tried to flee to America and are now being held in ICE detention facilities.

https://twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1209072147706077184?s=21


That’s what you get for trusting the CIA. Get fucked morons.




Delicious irony.


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