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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Australia is burning down... * 1
    #26395922 - 12/22/19 04:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The bushfires are out of control.  A town has been razed (or more).

It seems that no matter how we try to save the environment, the environment turns on us because of what we did to the environment.

Auustralia is importing fire fighters from other countries...

On the flip side, many dangerous spiders have been burnt.  So there's that...


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
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Registered: 10/14/14
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal] * 4
    #26396069 - 12/22/19 06:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

In the big scheme of things, humans haven't done a thing to address environmental ravaging and the causes of climate change.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: relic]
    #26396198 - 12/22/19 07:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This age we are living in is slipping away.  The times they are a changin.  It's almost unimaginable what global warming has the potential to turn into.

The age of massive fossil fuel use is going to end one way or the other.  Either through will or through what nature dishes out on the human race. 

PM denies link to climate policies as fires scorch arid Australia


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26396269 - 12/22/19 08:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The recent report that methane climate positive feedback in the artic has begun is dire. The top ten hottest years on record have all been in the past twenty years. Greenland’s ice melt this summer added a half inch to sea levels. What exactly do doubters doubt?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleThe Thing
ТнغТнརиو
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Registered: 03/01/18
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26396412 - 12/22/19 09:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

.


Edited by The Thing (12/23/19 02:43 PM)


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Invisiblepineninja
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Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: The Thing]
    #26396523 - 12/22/19 10:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Weve started to see the same political rhetoric here that happens in the states when there is a mass shooting.

One side.
"Here is a problem before us and we should do something"

Other side.
"Now is not the time to be talking about it and it's disgusting that you make it political"

It's new here.:thumbsup:

It's a real problem this time though because sydneysiders cant go for a jog or drink their lattes in cafes because of the smoke.


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Just a fool on the hill.


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #26396592 - 12/23/19 12:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know about yall, but I'm pro-global warming...


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InvisibleThe Thing
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: The Thing]
    #26396608 - 12/23/19 12:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

.


Edited by The Thing (12/23/19 02:47 PM)


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
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Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,623
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26396908 - 12/23/19 07:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
I don't know about yall, but I'm pro-global warming...





Cool.  Why is that?


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26396972 - 12/23/19 08:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The recent report that methane climate positive feedback in the artic has begun is dire. The top ten hottest years on record have all been in the past twenty years. Greenland’s ice melt this summer added a half inch to sea levels. What exactly do doubters doubt?




I think people are skeptical of the end of the world claims and every weather event is completely the result of climate change.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: qman]
    #26397269 - 12/23/19 11:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

End of the world claims 🤦‍♂️


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: The Thing]
    #26397271 - 12/23/19 11:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Thing said:
I made a mistake in my last post ,

Its apositive indian ocean diapole.

Mentioned in this ABC news article posted 36 minutes ago..

Australias xmas heat forecast




What’s a diapole? Did you mean dipole?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineqman
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397384 - 12/23/19 12:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
End of the world claims 🤦‍♂️




Humanity is in BIG BIG trouble if we don't make radical changes very soon.  Greta gave us a needed wakeup call.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: qman]
    #26397404 - 12/23/19 12:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That’s not an end of the world claim. And she’s right. Considering how much you hate brown people I would think that the fact that climate change is going to cause the largest refugee crisis in human history would matter to you

We’ve already had an entire nation have to be evacuated due to rising sea levels.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/23/19 12:52 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397409 - 12/23/19 12:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Nice to see our conservatives have seamlessly shifted from “its a globalist HOAX” to “its ridiculous how out of control this problem is.”


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Offlineqman
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397412 - 12/23/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
That’s not an end of the world claim. And she’s right. Considering how much you hate brown people I would think that the fact that climate change is going to cause the largest refugee crisis in human history would matter to you

We’ve already had an entire nation have to be evacuated due to rising sea levels.




I suggest sending them to Israel.


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine]
    #26397634 - 12/23/19 02:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
I don't know about yall, but I'm pro-global warming...



Humans are due and in need of a massive disruption of standard operating procedure. imo


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26397709 - 12/23/19 03:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

A slow moving disaster won’t work. It’s like the frog in a slowly warming pot.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397722 - 12/23/19 03:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You would know.

ribbit


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26397734 - 12/23/19 03:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Do you like my grey tree frog? (He was green the day I took the picture, but his color changes with his mood)  He lives on my deck with some of his buddies.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine]
    #26397739 - 12/23/19 03:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
I don't know about yall, but I'm pro-global warming...



Humans are due and in need of a massive disruption of standard operating procedure. imo




global warming isn't going to provide a massive disruption tho
it's just going to be a slow, tedious adaptation to new norms

it may force some more wars tho


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397743 - 12/23/19 03:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

We got thousands of frogs and toads here in the jungle of hawaii. Was a trip when we first moved here hearing them at night.



Imagine listening to that every night. At first it was kind of hard to fall asleep to, but now it's like white noise and i dig it. I still have yet to trip at night when they're all singing; i imagine its going to be a gnarly experience.


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OnlineRebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/15/11
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26397747 - 12/23/19 03:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The bushfires are out of control.  A town has been razed (or more).

It seems that no matter how we try to save the environment, the environment turns on us because of what we did to the environment.

Auustralia is importing fire fighters from other countries...

On the flip side, many dangerous spiders have been burnt.  So there's that...




What did the dinosaurs do to be punished by mass extinction?

We just have more media coverage of those events. The environment doesn't have feelings.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine]
    #26397748 - 12/23/19 03:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397751 - 12/23/19 03:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Where you live?


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine]
    #26397754 - 12/23/19 03:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Maryland about 5 miles from DC


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397764 - 12/23/19 03:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You ever trip and just listen to them at night?


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Tantrika]
    #26397772 - 12/23/19 03:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
I don't know about yall, but I'm pro-global warming...



Humans are due and in need of a massive disruption of standard operating procedure. imo




global warming isn't going to provide a massive disruption tho
it's just going to be a slow, tedious adaptation to new norms

it may force some more wars tho




1st world perspectives.:elmo:
Just turn up the air conditioning.
And make sure the wars are over there.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods] * 2
    #26397773 - 12/23/19 03:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I built a little pond in my backyard, and they started fucking in it and now every summer there are frogs crawling all over the house. They really like hanging out inside the rings of the aluminum ladder



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397778 - 12/23/19 03:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You should change your avatar to this one 

lol

but yo have you tripped and listened to them? something tells me the closed eye visuals would be mad trippy along with the sound.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #26397837 - 12/23/19 04:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
I don't know about yall, but I'm pro-global warming...



Humans are due and in need of a massive disruption of standard operating procedure. imo




global warming isn't going to provide a massive disruption tho
it's just going to be a slow, tedious adaptation to new norms

it may force some more wars tho




1st world perspectives.:elmo:
Just turn up the air conditioning.
And make sure the wars are over there.




There are traditional communities suffering in my country as well (Canada)
Quote:

Canada, overall, is warming at twice as fast as the rest of the world on average, according to Canada’s Changing Climate Report, with the country’s average annual temperature having risen 1.7 C between 1948 and 2016. However, the North has been warming faster than the south, with the territories seeing a 2.3 C increase — three times the global average — during that time frame.



Quote:

The report links the warmer climate to increased fire activity, lakes and rivers freezing later and breaking up earlier, earlier peak spring streamflows due to earlier snowmelts, and an increase in permafrost temperature.

(In the Old Crow Flats, in particular, thawing permafrost has been linked to the loss of about 3,000 hectares of lake area between 1951 and 2007; as permafrost under lakes melts, the water can suddenly drain into the now-thawed land. The report notes that “catastrophic lake drainages in this region have become more than five times more frequent in recent decades.)



Quote:

Canada-wide, precipitation increased by about 20 per cent from 1948 to 2012, the report says, with the North, again, seeing a larger increase compared to the rest of the country (the report says northern Canada is believed to have seen a 32.5 per cent increase, although the confidence in the data is low due to a limited number of monitoring stations).



https://www.yukon-news.com/news/climate-change-affecting-northern-canada-faster-than-rest-of-the-country-report-says/

Quote:

For example, decreasing ice could allow increased shipping through Arctic waterways, including the Northwest Passage. While this may mean economic benefits for Nunavut, it can also raise the risk of oil and chemical spills. Increased land-use activities and natural resource development, together with population growth and an expanding economy, mean we must  plan to ensure environmental sustainability in the future.



https://www.climatechangenunavut.ca/en/understanding-climate-change/climate-change-impact

for me (classified as part of the West in this article)
https://globalnews.ca/news/5918981/climate-change-impact-across-canada/
longer growing season for crops, but more risk of drought weather and changes in rain patterns
this could mean that Canada will have to move to (ever technologically improving) vertical indoor or greenhouse farming for crops
but in that case, a loss of farmable land will likely be treated as an opportunity to urbanize new areas and receive larger immigrant influxes either from our own coastal and northern areas or other sinking countries

but even outside the first world, it's not going to be a massive global disruption
even the climate refugees that have to leave uninhabitable lands are going to be a slow continuous trend, rather than all of them collapsing simultaneously

there will be variations where some of the refugee numbers will be absolutely huge
but the system of pulling in refugees is becoming more efficient, whether the existing population wants it or the refugee population is prepared for the adjustments, or not


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26397876 - 12/23/19 04:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The intelligence you rely upon to solve these problems is the same intelligence that brought us here.

Vertical planting and increased shipping sound just excellent though.

If you read the rest of the native people website you will see that they arent apl that positive about what's happening to them.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine]
    #26397892 - 12/23/19 04:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
You should change your avatar to this one 

lol

but yo have you tripped and listened to them? something tells me the closed eye visuals would be mad trippy along with the sound.




A year and a half until the cicadas return. This was 2004. It would be a challenging trip.



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26397899 - 12/23/19 04:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
...
There are traditional communities suffering in my country as well (Canada)
...




Quote:

pineninja said:
...
If you read the rest of the native people website you will see that they arent apl that positive about what's happening to them.




mhm

Quote:

pineninja said:
The intelligence you rely upon to solve these problems is the same intelligence that brought us here.

Vertical planting and increased shipping sound just excellent though.
...




Yeah, and my statement was that we are just going to have more slow changes to the status quo

do you feel world governments are going to start revolutionary programs and stop climate change?

The natural world as remembered from my childhood is already vanishing,
it is nice to know there are programs like the youtubers who got together to fundraise to plant 20 million trees


Would really love if the story of Earth could be one where we live in harmony with Nature, and develop terraforming technologies we could use to green the rest of our Solar System
but, realistically, we are moving towards a barren earth with less biodiversity where we live in climate controlled bubbles
as we tweak those technologies so we can use them on the already dead planet of Mars


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397928 - 12/23/19 04:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
You should change your avatar to this one 

lol

but yo have you tripped and listened to them? something tells me the closed eye visuals would be mad trippy along with the sound.




A year and a half until the cicadas return. This was 2004. It would be a challenging trip.





lmao; is that you filming? that would be a gnarly trip for sure, not sure i could handle it being outside having cicadas crawl all over me... lmao; shame we dont get cicadas or lightning bugs here in hawaii, i should try and smuggle them in maybe... lol

though i do plan to trip to the coqi frogs soon; that should be trippy


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26397948 - 12/23/19 05:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The recent report that methane climate positive feedback in the artic has begun is dire. The top ten hottest years on record have all been in the past twenty years. Greenland’s ice melt this summer added a half inch to sea levels. What exactly do doubters doubt?




Doubt itself.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26398034 - 12/23/19 05:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

"Would really love if the story of Earth could be one where we live in harmony with Nature, and develop terraforming technologies we could use to green the rest of our Solar System
but, realistically, we are moving towards a barren earth with less biodiversity where we live in climate controlled bubbles
as we tweak those technologies so we can use them on the already dead planet of Mars"

This slightly contradicts this.

"global warming isn't going to provide a massive disruption tho
it's just going to be a slow, tedious adaptation to new norms

it may force some more wars tho"

You must excuse my confusion.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26398064 - 12/23/19 06:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
"Would really love if the story of Earth could be one where we live in harmony with Nature, and develop terraforming technologies we could use to green the rest of our Solar System
but, realistically, we are moving towards a barren earth with less biodiversity where we live in climate controlled bubbles
as we tweak those technologies so we can use them on the already dead planet of Mars"

This slightly contradicts this.

"global warming isn't going to provide a massive disruption tho
it's just going to be a slow, tedious adaptation to new norms

it may force some more wars tho"

You must excuse my confusion.




We don't have the technologies yet, we won't have the technologies simultaneously
the implementation will be slow; it's going to be happening over decades
and for people already living their whole lives in cities, not much will change

those of us out in the country will have to adapt more, but it's not going to be stepping into a sci-fi future or anything
rapid urbanization in some areas and depopulation in others will occur first; managing the food and water resources for those areas will be handled as soon as possible
even with rapid global warming, we won't be at a point where we need to be living in bubbles for some time
and we certainly won't be having successful colonization of Mars before we can get the basic technologies working in the friendlier Earth atmosphere

but yeah, similiar to how Australia has the majority of the population on the coast,
and many of the urban and suburban dwellers are now facing the realities of fire that has likely been occuring in more rural/outback areas for 30+ years

Canada has our population along the US border,
and the fire belt is only just recently been getting close enough to more heavily inhabited areas to cause a stir
but despite the burning of Fort Mac a few years back,
little has changed about the oil industry in the area, and people have been moving back in because they want the money working there brings

https://globalnews.ca/news/5234350/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-3-years-later/





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Offlinedreamachine


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Tantrika]
    #26398166 - 12/23/19 07:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

How the hell do they have forest fires that far north? Isn't it cold as shit up there covered in snow most of the year?


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: dreamachine]
    #26398203 - 12/23/19 08:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Used to be


--------------------
NotSheekle said
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Offlineqman
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26398283 - 12/23/19 08:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26398574 - 12/24/19 03:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #26398779 - 12/24/19 07:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The bushfires are out of control.  A town has been razed (or more).

It seems that no matter how we try to save the environment, the environment turns on us because of what we did to the environment.






i don't agree with your conclusion here at all.  Take California for instance.  100+ years of fire suppression to try to destroy the Natives' way of life (food supply: acorns, tools: baskets/vessels made of hazel, etc.) allowed the fuel load all across the state to stack up to unprecedented levels. 

Followed by towns and subdivisions being built right up into and beyond the wildland-urban interface (WUI) without doing anything to remove or reduce the fuel loads.  Houses are built of highly flammable materials on the exterior and filled with pockets/gaps for embers to land in.


It's basically the equivalent of building your house in the valley of a seasonal river then cursing god for destroying your house when the rain comes. 

If people managed the forests properly and/or stopped building in areas that have historically burnt annually or every few years and built houses to fire-hardened specs, wildfires in California would be nowhere near as destructive or costly.



edit:  logging in CA completely changed the landscape that had developed over tens of thousands of years.  the conifers have moved in after all the large Redwoods/Firs were cut, exposing the understory to sun it had not seen.  Fir trees take over, marching through the land, and kill out most other trees in their path by depriving them of sun.  so now you have an even denser stand of green material, with lots of dead standing trees acting as ladder fuel and/or allowing the rapid spread of crown fires (which embers can travel for miles on the wind before burning up, which then causes fires to spread more rapidly.) /end edit


There's so much more to say on this topic, but i'm not going into it here.

TLDR; humans are ignorant of their actions and the consequences that follow.  not to mention short-sighted.


Edited by Tulipslave (12/24/19 07:57 AM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods] * 1
    #26403569 - 12/27/19 07:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
What exactly do doubters doubt?




There was some interesting commentary on one of the shows here as to why Australia is so divided on the issue/s, (as opposed to say the U.K.
which is on track to be rid of coal by 2025? I think?) and the blame lies squarely at the feet of politicians for turning a scientific debate into a political one.

So anyone who blinks first when it comes to linking these fires to the changing climate is shot down with logic that goes something along the line of  'well Captain Cook saw smoke as he sailed down the coastline so nerr nerrrr'
or
Australia has always had bushfires = which is a dog whistle to toughen the fuck up snowflake.
etc

If we had no coal Aus would be bleating loudly about these fires, however thanks to SKY news, no.
... seriously I wish the world would check out the GARBAGE commentary that passes as news nightly on SKY Aus and give Rupert Murdoch a kick in the arse.

Here's an example Paul Murray and his often guest hosts EX POLITICIANS Bronwyn Bishop and Mark Latham :facepalm3:
It's Bronwyn you can hear groaning in the background as she is presented with a few facts.

These people, are the problem.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403576 - 12/27/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

We are "divided" because we rely on coal an ore to pay the bills.

A bit like the States and guns.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26403613 - 12/27/19 08:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, it's politicised due to the revenue generated, jobs of course.

I'm trying to remember a more divisive issue... maybe immigration/asylum seekers.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403631 - 12/27/19 08:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Depends who's lifetime you're looking at.

Always forces pushing against each other with the halfway line being the here and now.

Mabo.
Gay rights.
Asylum.
Vietnam.
Unions.
Religion and state.
Capitalism...or not.

Have been mine.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403672 - 12/27/19 09:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

For sure.

The Franklin River Dam comes to mind as well as the Right to march street marches here in Qld in the 70's when I was in high school.

Even with power prices set to drop by 20% over the next 3 years in Queensland, with Renewables being the primary driver, the LNP
are still determined to put a new coal fired generator here as well 'the other' 'coal state' of New South Wales.

South Australia doesn't have this peculiar problem, why?... no coal.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403831 - 12/27/19 11:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Labour state government when the hard decisions needed to be made against the long standing industry.

We were putting in windmills whilst everybody else was laughing at us.

It's now obviously the right decision and we wont be turning back/you wont get in unless your pro renewable.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26403889 - 12/28/19 12:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I feel for Aussiie I'm about 40 min away from massive stretches of wildfire scortched earth here in SoCal. Buddies watched it burn while in traffic on the way to work the last big one. Thank God we live in the high desert which just means it's cold and windy as shit all the time or really hot.Everyones dumb run out joke about our area is we only have 2 seasons which isn't uncommon but in Southern California it's not ideal California living.


--------------------
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26403938 - 12/28/19 01:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Labour state government yes... driven at a state level yes... and you guys have no coal, just saying.

I also think S.A. rocks when it comes to renewable energy :thumbup:
The coal States numbers are appalling, it's almost embarrassing to quote Queensland's target and we have a record amount of solar.

I'm pretty sure Labour didn't win a single seat north of Brisbane here last Federal election, yes the retiree tax was one reason but the main reason was the attack on coal.
The big banks make noise as if they aren't investing in coal... but they still are.

If it wasn't for The Greens forcing Labour to spend some money on renewables, Australia would be in a further embarrassing position.

More 'science' from SKY news showing why the Bureau of Metereorology is wrong and this 'expert' with a full 8 years interest experience + some anecdotal evidence is right :facepalm3:


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26404006 - 12/28/19 02:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Why is the accent on Australian TV so grating and obnoxious? Normal Australians don’t have such an affected accent. Is it like the Australian version of British RP?


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26404015 - 12/28/19 03:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It's the Queens English....with a twang.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26404016 - 12/28/19 03:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Also sky is not seen by many but those who want to know what they are going to get....reinforcement.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26404017 - 12/28/19 03:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Their worst nightmare is to behave like an ABC journalist (well spoken) as they'd miss their bogan audience demographic.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26404018 - 12/28/19 03:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Also sky is not seen by many but those who want to know what they are going to get....reinforcement.




:awesomenod:


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26404386 - 12/28/19 09:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26408723 - 12/31/19 02:56 AM (4 years, 29 days ago)



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26410047 - 12/31/19 10:10 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The bushfires are out of control.  A town has been razed (or more).

It seems that no matter how we try to save the environment, the environment turns on us because of what we did to the environment.

Auustralia is importing fire fighters from other countries...

On the flip side, many dangerous spiders have been burnt.  So there's that...




They'll be fine


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #26410575 - 01/01/20 08:17 AM (4 years, 28 days ago)



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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: meltdowner] * 2
    #26417669 - 01/05/20 02:34 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
They'll be fine




No not really.

These fires are so massive they have blown Australia's emission target for  this year  by half, not that they were fantastic to start with but it's significant.

Queensland the Northern Territory and the top of Western Aus will get rain from the monsoon eventually but large parts of South Aus, Victoria and New South Wales will continue to bake for another 2 months.

I think we are seeing a tipping point play out right now.

The damage to wildlife, infrastructure, small community water supplies, people's income is significant.

There was/is smoke in almost every capital city, and often at the same time.

The politics of this is going to step from ugly to brutal.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26417692 - 01/05/20 02:52 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:
They'll be fine




No not really.

These fires are so massive they have blown Australia's emission target for  this year  by half, not that they were fantastic to start with but it's significant.

...




This showed up in Canada as well
sometime around the 2000s(?) the rate of fires became so frequent
that our forests stopped being a carbon sink, and began qualifying as a carbon emission problem
so large in fact, that relative to our population base it massive drove up our numbers to make us one of the largest contributors in the world

The Canadian solution?
change how we measure our emissions going forward, so we can get in line with climate expectations without actually getting emissions in accord with climate requirements

:gocanada:


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Tantrika]
    #26417752 - 01/05/20 03:16 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Wow ok. Looks like we are in a similar position  :nonono: 
The Federal politicians are now trying to reshape the narrative with the Prime Minister caught on the backfoot.

I did a solar job with a friend up near Athabasca for a couple that lost their home in the Fort McMurray fire, that's a long way to go to meet another bushfire victim.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26417764 - 01/05/20 03:21 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

> Things that happen in the world from time to time

Ok cool.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26417766 - 01/05/20 03:22 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
This age we are living in is slipping away.  The times they are a changin.  It's almost unimaginable what global warming has the potential to turn into.

The age of massive fossil fuel use is going to end one way or the other.  Either through will or through what nature dishes out on the human race. 

PM denies link to climate policies as fires scorch arid Australia



:canthelpbutlaugh:
Quote:


The sky is falling run for your lives
It's happening




It's never 'happening'

Why does man kind always think it is the cause of things bigger than them...
I wonder if retards would have suggested we caused the ice age or the meteorite that struck earth and fucked it sideways eons ago... Oh wait, Ancient people did....
:loldongs:

Quote:


MUH fossil fuels





WE WUZ climate engineers with power over the world
:closecall:

When you get a chance look up the earth's magnetic field and how much sun energy it blocks from rekking the earth in an instant. Then go and look up our tiny atmosphere and how much filtering it does.

And then tell me about 'muh man made climate change'


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx] * 5
    #26417777 - 01/05/20 03:32 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

So you can recognise the fine balance of life, yet can't add in the heat from 100 years of man made heat and gases into the equation.

Interesting.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26417784 - 01/05/20 03:36 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

When you get a chance look up the earth's magnetic field and how much sun energy it blocks from rekking the earth in an instant.






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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26417904 - 01/05/20 04:45 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Post deleted by Enlil

Reason for deletion: flaming


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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx] * 1
    #26417936 - 01/05/20 04:56 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Treat people with respect, this isn't 4chan.

Edit: even if i think you are right

Edit2: Living Failure and english: I don't have a clue on how to use the conditional in this case so ill explain it the best i could:
if (i think you are right){Treat people with respect}
else {Treat people with respect}
I do not mean i agree with you in this case (i don't but i could). This is getting out of hand


Edited by living_failure (01/05/20 10:50 PM)


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx] * 2
    #26418083 - 01/05/20 06:10 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
This age we are living in is slipping away.  The times they are a changin.  It's almost unimaginable what global warming has the potential to turn into.

The age of massive fossil fuel use is going to end one way or the other.  Either through will or through what nature dishes out on the human race. 

PM denies link to climate policies as fires scorch arid Australia



:canthelpbutlaugh:
Quote:


The sky is falling run for your lives
It's happening




It's never 'happening'

Why does man kind always think it is the cause of things bigger than them...
I wonder if retards would have suggested we caused the ice age or the meteorite that struck earth and fucked it sideways eons ago... Oh wait, Ancient people did....
:loldongs:

Quote:


MUH fossil fuels





WE WUZ climate engineers with power over the world
:closecall:

When you get a chance look up the earth's magnetic field and how much sun energy it blocks from rekking the earth in an instant. Then go and look up our tiny atmosphere and how much filtering it does.

And then tell me about 'muh man made climate change'




This post is a buffet of ignorance. The magnetic field has no effect on electromagnetic radiation (such as light and infrared). The magnetic field causes charged matter (protons, elections and ions) to be swept into the atmosphere at the poles instead of hitting the atmosphere directly. None of those charged particles are being blocked from interacting with the atmosphere, only where that interaction takes place.

Man has caused CO2 levels to more than double in just over 100 years, to a level never seen in human history. The CO2 molecule absorbs EM radiation in a particular way that it allows visible light to pass freely, but is opaque to certain wavelengths of infrared radiation. Aside from a very minor heat contribution of radioactive decay, the amount of heat retained by the planet is determined by the the balance between radiation inputs (solar irradiance) and radiation output (blackbody heat.) there is no other way to remove heat from the planet. More CO2 shifts the equilibrium towards more heat retention. It is simply impossible for more CO2 to not cause this shift. It’s absorption spectrum is a fundamental property of the molecule.

Greenhouse gases are more opaque to radiated heat than other atmospheric gases. That means less heat is radiated into space. That trapped radiation is converted to kinetic energy that heats the atmosphere.

This is what methane looks like in the infrared spectrum. It’s isnt transparent.



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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods] * 1
    #26418169 - 01/05/20 07:00 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Senator Jordan Steele-John gave this speech in November last year and called both sides of the house a bunch of arsonists (4.01 mark)

The infamous 'Don't be afraid it's only coal" performance the Prime Minister gave in Parliament when he was Treasurer for the worst Conservative Government Australia
has ever had, is going to be made difficult for him to forget this year.


Edit, hmmm, actually Turnbull was P.M. then, but you get the idea of the  problem.


Edited by Stable Genius (01/06/20 01:43 AM)


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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419407 - 01/06/20 02:17 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Post deleted by Enlil

Reason for deletion: flaming





When your ban is finished why not explain why you think the bush fires are not linked to climate change.

There's plenty of reliable data on this.

Here's one report from the  Aus Bureau of Meterology  issued September last year.

What's your opinion?


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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26419465 - 01/06/20 02:52 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Dude's banned for swearing at me or what ever he did?  I never even got to see what was written.  I hope it was good.

Maybe he should have just posted a picture of whatever he thinks my problem is.  I kinda flamed him too with that.


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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26419489 - 01/06/20 03:07 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

I dunno? I just assumed he was from previous experience  :grin:


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods] * 1
    #26419674 - 01/06/20 05:09 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Before things went off the rails I stated :

Once dismissed theory/science:
http://www.viewzone.com/magnetic.weather.html

Becomes plausible and new research :
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0207270
https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html
https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=NE%2FJ018058%2F1
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2016JD024890


A rebuttal :
https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/magnetism-from-neuroscience-to-climate-change

Correlation is indeed not causation which is why in such a sufficiently complex system such as the earth, until it is scientifically defined what are the exact influences and what weight they have on the overall climate, it's all 'correlation' and theory.

https://www.canadiangeographic.ca/article/climate-change-linked-geomagnetism

Copernicus was ostracized for saying the planets rotated around the sun. With how much we don't understand about space weather's interaction with Earth's climate, it seems rediculous to say the science is settled.

Science especially theories are often proven wrong.
It's an ever evolving body of belief.
Nothing points to there being a closed book on what caused climate change. Instead it is wide open, the weights of different influences are not understood and there's a shit ton of correlation vs causation.

And then there's this :
https://www.nature.com/news/1-500-scientists-lift-the-lid-on-reproducibility-1.19970

Complete lack of integrity in research



So excuse me for using my educated brain to think outside of the box on a popular narrative that has no definite science backing it.

And no theoretical science is not fact nor explained by established undergrad physics.

All I have to contribute to the discussion. Believe as you wish. Oh and speaking of popular narratives and disinfo, the obvious was the case :

https://noqreport.com/2020/01/06/183-arsonists-arrested-climate-change-alarmists-blame-australias-massive-fires/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/118623458/australian-bushfires-cops-and-arson-unit-round-up-24-alleged-firestarters-in-nsw
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/australia-arrests-183-for-setting-bushfires-that-celebrities-claim-were-caused-by-climate-change/
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-firebugs-fuelling-crisis-asarson-arresttollhits183/news-story/52536dc9ca9bb87b7c76d36ed1acf53f
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-06/alleged-bushfire-lighters-face-south-australian-courts/11843544

This is what happens when you keep pushing panicky disinfo on the masses...


My post wasn't a buffet of ignorance. Australia is burning because a bunch of clowns lit it on fire. It has nothing to do with climate change and my statements about the weakening magnetic field impacting climate are sound and backed by the latest research into it. Of course, just like Copernicus, people prosecute scientific claims beyond the usual echo chamber. Given history, it's pointless to argue about this. You either know or respect this about science and history or your don't and think popular narratives/theories are closed book facts. Can't help you in the later case.


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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26419688 - 01/06/20 05:17 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Post deleted by Enlil

Reason for deletion: flaming





When your ban is finished why not explain why you think the bush fires are not linked to climate change.

There's plenty of reliable data on this.

Here's one report from the  Aus Bureau of Meterology  issued September last year.

What's your opinion?



See post here...
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26419674#26419674

The fires were started by whackos likely trumped up by all the climate change rhetoric. Has nothing to do with climate change. As for climate change, the popular theory that it is being caused predominately by pollution is just that a 'popular theory'. Earth's climate is impacted by a lot of things including the magnetic field around the earth (especially by it). When it weakens which it has been over the past century by a tremendous amount as the poles are shifting, all sorts of understood/non-understood things change (ofc) and part of that is concerned with theoretical science and on-going researching.

You have an equation :
Climate change = Weight1*Influence1 + Weight2*Influence2 + Weight3*Influence3 + ... Weight(k)*Influence(k)

You've been given a handful of Influences and no weights. No one knows the full picture. Scientists are still researching it and one big area is the influence of our magnetic field :

The increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration has been thought to be the main cause of climatic changes at these high altitudes. This study suggests that magnetic field changes that have taken place over the past century are as important.

Both increasing levels of CO2 and changes in the Earth's magnetic field affect the upper atmosphere, including its charged portion, also known as the ionosphere. Dr. Ingrid Cnossen from the British Antarctic Survey used computer simulations to compare the effects of these two factors over the past century.

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees. At the same altitude, changes in the Earth's magnetic field caused a similar amount of cooling over parts of North America, but caused a warming over other parts of the world, with the strongest warming, of up to 12 degrees, located over Antarctica.

Source : https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html

My assertions were spot on and maybe far less known because its not 'popular science' or a popular narrative.
Nonetheless, there's nothing more to discuss here. They found out why the fires in Australia broke out : Arson and I just defined why it is still unknown what contributes and how much to : Climate change.

Should we strive for a cleaner environment? Yeah we should. Should we be more efficient? Yeah
But that's not gonna happen under a big fat lie.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419690 - 01/06/20 05:18 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Australia is burning because a bunch of clowns lit it on fire. It has nothing to do with climate change




Heat waves and drought don't contribute to how robustly vegetation will burn.  At all.

Don't make me post the drunk picture again.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26419696 - 01/06/20 05:23 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
So you can recognise the fine balance of life, yet can't add in the heat from 100 years of man made heat and gases into the equation.

Interesting.




As I spent years in this area, researched it heavily and just linked to the science that backs my assertions, and directly invested in various Green tech in various stages of development, It seems my commentary is due to being able to recognize that the problem is far more complex than the basic narratives and equations that underscore : It's only the atmosphere and pollution.

Nothing sufficiently complex is simple, if a narrative is being sold to you convincing you it is, you're likely being lied to and manipulated. And yes, academia/science/researchers have been doing this for some time because like everyone else, they want to get paid and live good and that overrides their search and upholding of truth.

https://www.nature.com/news/1-500-scientists-lift-the-lid-on-reproducibility-1.19970


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00439-9

I'll give everyone some levity because this isn't what is the popular depicition.. But yes, a lot of science is bunk bs, fraudulent, etc. When complex science hits mainstream media and when billions of dollars get tied up it gets even worse.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx] * 1
    #26419731 - 01/06/20 05:41 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

I have just never thought to take such a good hard look at science.:aweman:
I think you think you're way ahead of everybody else.

You should write a book.
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #26419749 - 01/06/20 05:54 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees.




We don’t live in the upper atmosphere

You posted all that stuff and then blew your whole argument up with two sentences


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Edited by koods (01/06/20 05:55 PM)


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26419757 - 01/06/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
I have just never thought to take such a good hard look at science.:aweman:
I think you think you're way ahead of everybody else.




You think i think I am way ahead of everybody else... Because I bothered myself for 5 minutes like anyone else can do to google and find the science for themselves. This occurs after you first question an assertion and what follows is however much time and importance you think a thing is to understand. You're essentially making an comment and indictment about that not an accurate assertion about what I think.

Quote:

pineninja said:
You should write a book.
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



No need. I linked to the 'books' : science articles and papers that do a better job.
There's enough books and whitepapers and actual sound articles to wrap around the earth. The problem is no one reads them and a lot of people who aren't read on a topic for some reason feel informed.


Quote:

pineninja said:
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



The veiled flames are getting tiresome and weak.
If you care about something, you'll spend the time it requires to understand it.

Enjoy whatever you decide to center on.
I would reply to a bigger group but I have filtered some people out.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26419764 - 01/06/20 06:05 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees.




We don’t live in the upper atmosphere

You posted all that stuff and then blew your whole argument up with two sentences



We live in the lower atmosphere whose climate is influenced by the interaction of layers going all the way up to and past the upper atmosphere and beyond it to the magnetic field that protects earth out to the Sun and its cylical output out past even our solar system to the heliosphere.

The specific article I linked you to stated you're wrong in your assertion :

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees. At the same altitude, changes in the Earth's magnetic field caused a similar amount of cooling over parts of North America, but caused a warming over other parts of the world, with the strongest warming, of up to 12 degrees, located over Antarctica.
Source : https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html


So now you're clearly doing selective reading/quoting to support something that I established is wrong.


You've had multiple times to ground your commentary and as its not occurring even when I frame the scientific reason, I will not comment further. Enjoy what you believe. There's nothing for me to contribute beyond what I have said.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419766 - 01/06/20 06:06 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Science is totally unreliable!

Till he can misinterpret it to back him up.

Where did you get all those numbers and stats...and how can we...or you...possibly trust them.:shrug:


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26419769 - 01/06/20 06:08 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

That reproducibility article sure is something.

Got anything that demonstrates the observation that CO2 holds heat is not reproducible?  Where does that fit in the chart? 

If you want to doubt the institution of knowledge that is peer reviewed science, what then should we base our beliefs on?


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419776 - 01/06/20 06:10 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
I have just never thought to take such a good hard look at science.:aweman:
I think you think you're way ahead of everybody else.




You think i think I am way ahead of everybody else... Because I bothered myself for 5 minutes like anyone else can do to google and find the science for themselves. This occurs after you first question an assertion and what follows is however much time and importance you think a thing is to understand. You're essentially making an comment and indictment about that not an accurate assertion about what I think.

Quote:

pineninja said:
You should write a book.
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



No need. I linked to the 'books' : science articles and papers that do a better job.
There's enough books and whitepapers and actual sound articles to wrap around the earth. The problem is no one reads them and a lot of people who aren't read on a topic for some reason feel informed.


Quote:

pineninja said:
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



The veiled flames are getting tiresome and weak.
If you care about something, you'll spend the time it requires to understand it.

Enjoy whatever you decide to center on.
I would reply to a bigger group but I have filtered some people out.



Dude you just admitted you did a five minute google search after claiming to have spent years.:facepalm3:

You have been caught by the mountains of crap on the internet and have little to add but regurgitated idiocy.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26419787 - 01/06/20 06:22 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Another article posted.  This one about the upper atmosphere and magnetic fields.

Quote:

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees.




300KM up?

WTF mate?  What does that have to do with anything?  That's damn near outer space.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26419791 - 01/06/20 06:25 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

The moon gets up to 127C in the day AND THERE IS NO CO2 on the moon.

It's science.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26419800 - 01/06/20 06:31 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Science is totally unreliable!

Till he can misinterpret it to back him up.

Where did you get all those numbers and stats...and how can we...or you...possibly trust them.:shrug:



Now you can finally say what you meant to say w/o a veil...
Interesting.
Science is reliable. A lot of it is unreliable and theoretical and most people don't know the difference.
A lot of money is tied up in science and research and thus is a known driver of corruption/truth. This is reflecting in numerous 'reflection' articles in esteemed magazines. Nature Magazine being one of them. I linked to one. I can link to 100s of them. Most people never read these so have a false perception of 'Science'. A lot of people never have been directly involved in research, funding, solicitation so don't have an accurate perception.

Ultimately, when faced with the reality, it seems people throw their hands in the air classically because it is such a jarring and contradictory reality from what they believe they don't even know where to begin constructive understanding. I don't have that problem nor do others involved in this arena and it seems it is impossible to expose this to others. It results in the same time tested reaction.

Quote:

pineninja said:
Dude you just admitted you did a five minute google search after claiming to have spent years.:facepalm3:




Yes, I just admitted to googling certain terminology and getting links that refutted stated claims in 5 minutes. I don't not discuss that I have spent years in this field/area.. was in active investor in various 'green energy startups' at various stages and have done years of research which allows me to pull up information that I am already familiar with in 5 minutes. None of which as added detail has anything to do with the information/topic or vetting of its validity but it seemingly concerns you.

Quote:

pineninja said:
You have been caught by the mountains of crap on the internet and have little to add but regurgitated idiocy.



Exactly what I expected would be your response after you took the veil down and stated exactly how you felt.

Ultimately as I also linked, the fires were started by a group arsonist that are speculated to have done so to push the 'climate change lie'. But hey, lets focus on not discussing that or the validity of information posted. The world is heading for dark pastures for clearly observable reasons.

Your sentiment is shared by others here, so I'll resign and you can continue among yourselves.
Apologies for trying to illuminate something other than the agreed upon narrative.

I expected no less from this but thought i'd refresh my highly accurate theory about present society.


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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: r00tcmplx] * 2
    #26419874 - 01/06/20 07:24 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:

The fires were started by whackos likely trumped up by all the climate change rhetoric. Has nothing to do with climate change. As for climate change, the popular theory that it is being caused predominately by pollution is just that a 'popular theory'. Earth's climate is impacted by a lot of things including the magnetic field around the earth (especially by it). When it weakens which it has been over the past century by a tremendous amount as the poles are shifting, all sorts of understood/non-understood things change (ofc) and part of that is concerned with theoretical science and on-going researching.

You have an equation :
Climate change = Weight1*Influence1 + Weight2*Influence2 + Weight3*Influence3 + ... Weight(k)*Influence(k)

You've been given a handful of Influences and no weights. No one knows the full picture. Scientists are still researching it and one big area is the influence of our magnetic field :

The increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration has been thought to be the main cause of climatic changes at these high altitudes. This study suggests that magnetic field changes that have taken place over the past century are as important.

Both increasing levels of CO2 and changes in the Earth's magnetic field affect the upper atmosphere, including its charged portion, also known as the ionosphere. Dr. Ingrid Cnossen from the British Antarctic Survey used computer simulations to compare the effects of these two factors over the past century.

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees. At the same altitude, changes in the Earth's magnetic field caused a similar amount of cooling over parts of North America, but caused a warming over other parts of the world, with the strongest warming, of up to 12 degrees, located over Antarctica.

Source : https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html

My assertions were spot on and maybe far less known because its not 'popular science' or a popular narrative.
Nonetheless, there's nothing more to discuss here. They found out why the fires in Australia broke out : Arson and I just defined why it is still unknown what contributes and how much to : Climate change.

Should we strive for a cleaner environment? Yeah we should. Should we be more efficient? Yeah
But that's not gonna happen under a big fat lie.




Good post :thumbup:  although I'm not sure why you think I said climate change started the fires?

There are/were hundreds of fires, yes some lit by arsonists, some from people using grinders, some from people ignoring the advice and letting their back burns get out of hand, some from dry lightning as we had here in Qld and many from the firestorms with dry ember attacks.

I agree with the idea that it's not one lone thing producing the change in weather conditions, and in particular the dry conditions - land management for example.

Thanks for posting the link however I read the CO2 contribution as being as responsible as the change in magnetic field? Does that mean you acknowledge at least a causal effect?

I stand by my statement that we are witnessing a tipping point play out. If the continued low rainfall continues, vast areas will never recover. We are seeing large scale change in a small time frame.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419937 - 01/06/20 07:56 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Oh my.
I'm surprised how some people only hold onto one or two factors they believe is true but stick their heads in the sand when it comes to others. Or how political parties will blame one another to push their agendas or find a scapegoat to cover up their contribution to the situation.

In regards to the climate change debate could it be possible that magnetic field or sun spot claims could be working along side more traditional greenhouse gas claims to influence climate change. :shrug:

I can only assume that people deny emissions as being part of the problem because they believe its some big conspiracy to perpetuate left wing economical agendas or cause some kind of mass hysteria among the public?
Honestly though, CO2 & climate change aside are you really ok with Poly-cyclic aromatic hydrocarbons being pumped into the atmosphere faster than nature intended, While we have the technology to utilise cleaner alternatives to energy consumption/production?

~

In regards to the political atmosphere..
I'm a firm believer that a small group of leaders with set in stone beliefs, ideas and agendas will never be able to effectively run an entire country. Give power back to the people letting small and large communities govern themselves.
I honestly hate all forms of government. Especially the shit show that Australia has been recently. Its all lies, finger pointing and more lies back and forth. It's leading some people astray while others bury their heads in the sand. this is stalling real social, economical & environmental progress. (To me at least, that is Australian politics in a nutshell)

As most of us are aware the current Australian government deny climate change is an issue.
They're using the greens as a scapegoat for the fires while trying to sweep aside the fact that they recently cut funding to major fire protection agencies across the country.

They claim that the greens put ahead polices that stop farmers from letting cattle graze in bush land or how they've pushed for public forests to not allow burn offs of excess scrub.
Not only do the greens not have that kind of power. Although I'm sure some of their supporters protested against those activities. Since when did right wing conservatives ever listen to Third party concerns?

I don't know. It just pisses me off how political things get while people and many more animals are dying, habitats and towns are being razed. They need help! not someone to blame.
My homestead was close to getting razed last year & is still at risk right up until march this year. Only Autumn/Winter &  increasingly sporadic summer rainfall give respite from the increasing temperatures now. Fires have always been a thing in this country but they've never been this bad & I think its a combination of many factors. But can't understand why people will only believe in one or two of them & completely dismiss the other side of the argument?

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I agree with the idea that it's not one lone thing producing the change in weather conditions, and in particular the dry conditions - land management for example.


:thumbup:


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Nickoloxious] * 1
    #26419967 - 01/06/20 08:17 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26419979 - 01/06/20 08:27 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Looks as though solar irradiance hasn't had as much influence on our climate as it did prior to the 1960's..


Edited by Nickoloxious (01/06/20 09:09 PM)


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26420044 - 01/06/20 09:09 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Global warming happens in the lower atmosphere. You keep posting about shit happening in the upper atmosphere.

You’re way out of your depths


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26420097 - 01/06/20 09:36 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Come back down to earth.  Keep your feet on the ground.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26420143 - 01/06/20 10:18 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)



--------------------


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26420317 - 01/07/20 03:06 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
And then there's this :
https://www.nature.com/news/1-500-scientists-lift-the-lid-on-reproducibility-1.19970

Complete lack of integrity in research





The article is very unclear about what their numbers are showing.  "More than 70% of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiments" could just mean that one of many hundreds of experiments that people have tried to reproduce was not reproducible (not 70%).  And there are no examples at all of experiments that were not reproducible to give any context.

Speaking for myself, I've successfully reproduced a great many experiments in college.  :shrug:


--------------------
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26420325 - 01/07/20 03:19 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Maybe our right wing politicians could ask Putin for some advice, he seems to be across it :shrug:


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26420537 - 01/07/20 08:09 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: qman]
    #26421447 - 01/07/20 04:32 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/24-australians-arrested-deliberately-setting-fires-season/story?id=68108272

:facepalm:




We have no shortage of idiots. If there was any guns left they'd be shot.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26421472 - 01/07/20 04:43 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

My impression of Australia in the three weeks I was there and from my Australian relatives is that Australia is like the US if the US had 50% more rednecks.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26421510 - 01/07/20 05:01 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Qld?


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26421555 - 01/07/20 05:21 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Nah Perth, Northern Territory and Melbourne


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26421558 - 01/07/20 05:25 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

My father in law was a psychiatrist in Perth. Then his wife died, he moved to NY for a while and lived with his daughter until he picked up a guy from Honduras half his age in a bathhouse and they moved back to Australia.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26421570 - 01/07/20 05:35 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

50%... you're being overly conservative.

I'm in Qld, on the edge of coal country + in an area full of retirees... there are next to zero Islamic people here but the racism is full on, the climate change denial is full on, it IS the redneck centre of Australia.

Pauline Hanson I don't like George Brandis but I applauded him in my lounge room when he told this redneck racist to wake up. However here in Qld her white Nationalist political base is growing.

Clive Palmer We also have Billionaires who have brain farts and think they should run for office. Clive thinks he can buy whatever advise he likes when it comes to science.

Bob Katter Basically Bob's just plain fucking crazy. The scary part is his electorate keeps voting for him.

It's fucking embarrassing.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26424084 - 01/09/20 07:45 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Twiggy Forrest contributes $70 million to bushfire appeal. Champion :thumbup:  He's done this sort of thing before too.

:justastonishing:


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26424098 - 01/09/20 07:57 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

It cost him $70 million for me to learn who he is


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26424116 - 01/09/20 08:09 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

He's awesome 

I love the ABC


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26434343 - 01/15/20 05:17 AM (4 years, 14 days ago)

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/14/media/murdoch-australia-climate-crisis-coverage/index.html

Quote:

Rupert Murdoch's son lashes out against Fox and his father's other news outlets for climate change coverage


London (CNN Business)Rupert Murdoch's son and his wife are lashing out against his father's sprawling media empire for how it covers the climate crisis, especially in light of the fires raging in the family's native Australia.

In the past year James Murdoch has stepped away from the family's business — and its politics. He and his wife Kathryn have made statements that set them apart from the Murdochs' conservative bent.
In comments first made to the Daily Beast, a spokesperson for the couple said "Kathryn and James' views on climate are well established and their frustration with some of the News Corp and Fox coverage of the topic is also well known."
"They are particularly disappointed with the ongoing denial among the news outlets in Australia given obvious evidence to the contrary."

Murdoch's News Corp owns a large chunk of Australia's media, and has been criticized for coverage that suggested the fires are no worse than they were in the past, or that they are caused by arsonists, not climate change.
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who has also downplayed the fires' connection to climate change, has been largely supported by Murdoch's papers in Australia, most of which endorsed him in the last election.
Some commentators and hosts on Fox News have also blamed the fires on arsonists.
It's not the first time the younger Murdoch, who left the family business but continues to sit on News Corps' board, has criticized his father's company. But this is one of the strongest condemnations yet.
In an interview last September with the New Yorker, James said "There are views I really disagree with on Fox."
The same month Kathryn spoke to The New York Times about the couple's climate activism (Kathryn has also long been active on Twitter on the subject.)

The criticism aimed at Rupert Murdoch's news outlets is also coming from within the company. Last week Emily Townsend, a commercial financier manager for News Corp in Australia, sent an all-staff email accusing News Corp of a "misinformation campaign" in relation to the fires to "divert attention away from the real issue," climate change, according to the Guardian.
"I find it unconscionable to continue working for this company, knowing I am contributing to the spread of climate change denial and lies. The reporting I have witnessed in the Australian, the Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun is not only irresponsible, but dangerous and damaging to our communities and beautiful planet that needs us more than ever now to acknowledge the destruction we have caused and start doing something about it," she wrote.
A spokesperson for Fox did not respond to a request for comment on James and Kathryn's statement.

News Corp, which declined to comment, has previously denied it has helped promote climate change denial, telling The New York Times last week the company has "recognized Australia is having a conversation about climate change and how to respond to it."
The Australian, one of News Corp's papers and a target of critics who say it's been downplaying the link between climate change and the fires, defended itself in an editorial over the weekend, writing "in our coverage, The Australian's journalists report facts about how to tackle bushfires and about how to deal with the impact of climate change. Second, we host debates reflecting the political division that exists in Australia about how to address climate change without destroying our economy."

Last year the elder Murdoch said on a News Corp shareholder call "there are no climate change deniers around, I can assure you."
And on Monday, the company announced it was donating $5 million AUD (approximately $3.45 million USD) to the Australian bushfire relief, in addition to the $4 million AUD (around $2.76 million USD) that both Rupert and his older son Lachlan Murdoch have donated to relief efforts.
"It is clear that confronting the bushfire disaster in Australia requires both an immediate response and an ongoing investment in rebuilding the lives and livelihoods of those most affected by the fires across the country," Rupert Murdoch said in a statement announcing the donation. "As a company with roots in Australia and an abiding commitment to its people and communities, we are determined to help, both in this time of great need, and well into the future, as the hard work of restoration continues."




Sky News Aus are feeling the heat, good, it's about time.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26435743 - 01/15/20 09:54 PM (4 years, 14 days ago)

Drop Bear attacks are likely in this area... you're prepared right?

Best backpacker pick-up line EVER :awesomenod:




As demonstrated by 'The Bundy Bear' 2004



Edited by Stable Genius (01/15/20 10:07 PM)


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 3
    #26435917 - 01/16/20 12:47 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

So much disinformation out there.  All this lying media, Noam Chomsky explained how there is a huge effort to control public opinion.  Historically, as people won rights and freedoms the ruling class realized it could no longer rely on violence to get it's way so it had to control the opinions of the masses instead.

And the media fulfils that role.

Ive never been able to shake it and I see what he means.  People have all these crazy ideas and they get a lot of it from the media.

I saw people screaming about the Australian 'greenies' online over the last little while.  How the fires are their fault.  That and some variation of the 'rake the forest' mumbo jumbo from the USA.

How Rupert Murdoch Is Influencing Australia’s Bushfire Debate Critics see a concerted effort to shift blame, protect conservative leaders and divert attention from climate change.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26436037 - 01/16/20 03:32 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

That NY Times article is on the money :thumbup:

The only point they missed is that Australia has wasted the last decade dragging it's feet on climate change policy due to successive conservative coal hugging governments.

To watch the worst of Sky News Aus you really need to tune in for the evening  bullshit opinion pieces.

Cash for comment grubs like Andrew Bolt, Chris Kenny, Paul Murray these fuckers are the problem grrrrrrr


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26436050 - 01/16/20 03:56 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Here's a classic example from Chris Smith

It's the same recipe over and over and over grrrrr

First, they lay out the scene and paint themselves as the voice of reason.
Then the bullshit and barbed comments get mixed in with some facts.
As long as they can paint the Left/Greens as extremist loonies with no brains = job done.

Sky News, Aus style.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26436740 - 01/16/20 12:25 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

The false narrative that these fires were started by arsonists pushed pretty hard in right wing media in the US


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26436876 - 01/16/20 01:52 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Yes I've seen a few too.

qman reported the right number as far as I'm aware.

There was certainly fires started inadvertently, around here anyway, and for many reasons.

True story, my friend and her neighbour had land cleared end of last year with the debris raked into piles about the size of a house.

The neighbour had to ring the Tree Clearing company and get them back with an excavator as one of the piles was starting to smoke/self combust


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26438570 - 01/17/20 01:10 PM (4 years, 12 days ago)

Usually whenever Sky News Aus rips into the ABC over climate change or whatever, the ABC calmly responds to Sky as 'another news outlet'.

This time around the gloves are off.



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26469628 - 02/05/20 03:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Media Watch Press did an excellent job on Sky News Aus/Fox/Murdoch Press and the misinformation they help spread.

It's a great compilation of the worst mouthpieces Sky has on in the evenings, the stuff they don't put on YouTube.



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 3
    #26484654 - 02/14/20 03:55 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26484662 - 02/14/20 04:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm glad I clicked that.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainyII] * 2
    #26485568 - 02/14/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Oh man, Senator Malcolm Roberts.

Put this one in the time capsule for a museum in the next epoch.  We'll take the kids there and say "Yep, this was one of the last dinosaurs, metaphorically speaking"

Check the comments in this video also.  Sounds like this message board 15 years ago.  Seen some of those old posts? 



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainyII] * 1
    #26485629 - 02/14/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ahahahahaha nice, you found Malcolm Roberts. Yeah he's dangerous, thank Christ he was booted from Parliament.

Sky News Aus had him on last week, I watched that!

Yeah the comments section... I think I said something to stir them up too :thumbup: it's a mighty fine assortment of arrogant factless fools the Sky News audience


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26485799 - 02/14/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The false narrative that these fires were started by arsonists pushed pretty hard in right wing media in the US



Play stupid games with false narrative, fake news, disinformation, alarmist nonsense, and lies and eventually those same games get played against a person.

Invite chaos by constantly manipulating perception and reality,  don't be surprised when chaos shows up to the party.
Eventually there will be so much noise and disinformation in the air that it will cause complete disorientation.

That's when people will grow up across all arbitrary lines and stop playing these stupid game.

When Group A plays pretend like they didn't know they were manipulating information and presenting a bold face lie... So will Group B eventually.

Ouroboros, all cycles are eventually completed.


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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainyII] * 1
    #26499086 - 02/22/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:




Quote:

JohnRainyII said:
I'm glad I clicked that.




Climate scientist Michael E Mann saw that video and liked it too.

thejuicemedia invited him to do a podcast and has put it on YouTube.

It's a pretty accurate take on things, the science, Carl Sagan, the Aus government's shitfuckery... cool links to other stuff as well, well worth a listen.



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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26499105 - 02/22/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Australia's fires with all this instantious homelessness is heartbreaking and the billion animals that died is really something that I expected to be numbed to but it deeply hurt me to see that. Reminded me of how I felt when ISIS was destroying 20,000 year old statues literally wiping an entire people's spirit and lives in all of history destroyed, even the Nazis thought that was overkill.


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