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Offliner00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
Posts: 419
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26419757 - 01/06/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
I have just never thought to take such a good hard look at science.:aweman:
I think you think you're way ahead of everybody else.




You think i think I am way ahead of everybody else... Because I bothered myself for 5 minutes like anyone else can do to google and find the science for themselves. This occurs after you first question an assertion and what follows is however much time and importance you think a thing is to understand. You're essentially making an comment and indictment about that not an accurate assertion about what I think.

Quote:

pineninja said:
You should write a book.
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



No need. I linked to the 'books' : science articles and papers that do a better job.
There's enough books and whitepapers and actual sound articles to wrap around the earth. The problem is no one reads them and a lot of people who aren't read on a topic for some reason feel informed.


Quote:

pineninja said:
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



The veiled flames are getting tiresome and weak.
If you care about something, you'll spend the time it requires to understand it.

Enjoy whatever you decide to center on.
I would reply to a bigger group but I have filtered some people out.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
Posts: 419
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26419764 - 01/06/20 06:05 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees.




We don’t live in the upper atmosphere

You posted all that stuff and then blew your whole argument up with two sentences



We live in the lower atmosphere whose climate is influenced by the interaction of layers going all the way up to and past the upper atmosphere and beyond it to the magnetic field that protects earth out to the Sun and its cylical output out past even our solar system to the heliosphere.

The specific article I linked you to stated you're wrong in your assertion :

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees. At the same altitude, changes in the Earth's magnetic field caused a similar amount of cooling over parts of North America, but caused a warming over other parts of the world, with the strongest warming, of up to 12 degrees, located over Antarctica.
Source : https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html


So now you're clearly doing selective reading/quoting to support something that I established is wrong.


You've had multiple times to ground your commentary and as its not occurring even when I frame the scientific reason, I will not comment further. Enjoy what you believe. There's nothing for me to contribute beyond what I have said.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419766 - 01/06/20 06:06 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Science is totally unreliable!

Till he can misinterpret it to back him up.

Where did you get all those numbers and stats...and how can we...or you...possibly trust them.:shrug:


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Registered: 07/09/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26419769 - 01/06/20 06:08 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

That reproducibility article sure is something.

Got anything that demonstrates the observation that CO2 holds heat is not reproducible?  Where does that fit in the chart? 

If you want to doubt the institution of knowledge that is peer reviewed science, what then should we base our beliefs on?


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419776 - 01/06/20 06:10 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
I have just never thought to take such a good hard look at science.:aweman:
I think you think you're way ahead of everybody else.




You think i think I am way ahead of everybody else... Because I bothered myself for 5 minutes like anyone else can do to google and find the science for themselves. This occurs after you first question an assertion and what follows is however much time and importance you think a thing is to understand. You're essentially making an comment and indictment about that not an accurate assertion about what I think.

Quote:

pineninja said:
You should write a book.
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



No need. I linked to the 'books' : science articles and papers that do a better job.
There's enough books and whitepapers and actual sound articles to wrap around the earth. The problem is no one reads them and a lot of people who aren't read on a topic for some reason feel informed.


Quote:

pineninja said:
Itd be popular with others looking for their own exclusive group.



The veiled flames are getting tiresome and weak.
If you care about something, you'll spend the time it requires to understand it.

Enjoy whatever you decide to center on.
I would reply to a bigger group but I have filtered some people out.



Dude you just admitted you did a five minute google search after claiming to have spent years.:facepalm3:

You have been caught by the mountains of crap on the internet and have little to add but regurgitated idiocy.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Registered: 07/09/19
Posts: 1,244
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26419787 - 01/06/20 06:22 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Another article posted.  This one about the upper atmosphere and magnetic fields.

Quote:

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees.




300KM up?

WTF mate?  What does that have to do with anything?  That's damn near outer space.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26419791 - 01/06/20 06:25 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

The moon gets up to 127C in the day AND THERE IS NO CO2 on the moon.

It's science.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26419800 - 01/06/20 06:31 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Science is totally unreliable!

Till he can misinterpret it to back him up.

Where did you get all those numbers and stats...and how can we...or you...possibly trust them.:shrug:



Now you can finally say what you meant to say w/o a veil...
Interesting.
Science is reliable. A lot of it is unreliable and theoretical and most people don't know the difference.
A lot of money is tied up in science and research and thus is a known driver of corruption/truth. This is reflecting in numerous 'reflection' articles in esteemed magazines. Nature Magazine being one of them. I linked to one. I can link to 100s of them. Most people never read these so have a false perception of 'Science'. A lot of people never have been directly involved in research, funding, solicitation so don't have an accurate perception.

Ultimately, when faced with the reality, it seems people throw their hands in the air classically because it is such a jarring and contradictory reality from what they believe they don't even know where to begin constructive understanding. I don't have that problem nor do others involved in this arena and it seems it is impossible to expose this to others. It results in the same time tested reaction.

Quote:

pineninja said:
Dude you just admitted you did a five minute google search after claiming to have spent years.:facepalm3:




Yes, I just admitted to googling certain terminology and getting links that refutted stated claims in 5 minutes. I don't not discuss that I have spent years in this field/area.. was in active investor in various 'green energy startups' at various stages and have done years of research which allows me to pull up information that I am already familiar with in 5 minutes. None of which as added detail has anything to do with the information/topic or vetting of its validity but it seemingly concerns you.

Quote:

pineninja said:
You have been caught by the mountains of crap on the internet and have little to add but regurgitated idiocy.



Exactly what I expected would be your response after you took the veil down and stated exactly how you felt.

Ultimately as I also linked, the fires were started by a group arsonist that are speculated to have done so to push the 'climate change lie'. But hey, lets focus on not discussing that or the validity of information posted. The world is heading for dark pastures for clearly observable reasons.

Your sentiment is shared by others here, so I'll resign and you can continue among yourselves.
Apologies for trying to illuminate something other than the agreed upon narrative.

I expected no less from this but thought i'd refresh my highly accurate theory about present society.


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OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
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Re: Australia is burning down... *DELETED* [Re: r00tcmplx] * 2
    #26419874 - 01/06/20 07:24 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:

The fires were started by whackos likely trumped up by all the climate change rhetoric. Has nothing to do with climate change. As for climate change, the popular theory that it is being caused predominately by pollution is just that a 'popular theory'. Earth's climate is impacted by a lot of things including the magnetic field around the earth (especially by it). When it weakens which it has been over the past century by a tremendous amount as the poles are shifting, all sorts of understood/non-understood things change (ofc) and part of that is concerned with theoretical science and on-going researching.

You have an equation :
Climate change = Weight1*Influence1 + Weight2*Influence2 + Weight3*Influence3 + ... Weight(k)*Influence(k)

You've been given a handful of Influences and no weights. No one knows the full picture. Scientists are still researching it and one big area is the influence of our magnetic field :

The increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration has been thought to be the main cause of climatic changes at these high altitudes. This study suggests that magnetic field changes that have taken place over the past century are as important.

Both increasing levels of CO2 and changes in the Earth's magnetic field affect the upper atmosphere, including its charged portion, also known as the ionosphere. Dr. Ingrid Cnossen from the British Antarctic Survey used computer simulations to compare the effects of these two factors over the past century.

While CO2 causes heat to be trapped in the lower atmosphere, it actually cools the upper atmosphere. The simulations show that the increase in CO2 concentration over the past 100 years has caused the upper atmosphere, at around 300 km altitude, to cool by around 8 degrees. At the same altitude, changes in the Earth's magnetic field caused a similar amount of cooling over parts of North America, but caused a warming over other parts of the world, with the strongest warming, of up to 12 degrees, located over Antarctica.

Source : https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html

My assertions were spot on and maybe far less known because its not 'popular science' or a popular narrative.
Nonetheless, there's nothing more to discuss here. They found out why the fires in Australia broke out : Arson and I just defined why it is still unknown what contributes and how much to : Climate change.

Should we strive for a cleaner environment? Yeah we should. Should we be more efficient? Yeah
But that's not gonna happen under a big fat lie.




Good post :thumbup:  although I'm not sure why you think I said climate change started the fires?

There are/were hundreds of fires, yes some lit by arsonists, some from people using grinders, some from people ignoring the advice and letting their back burns get out of hand, some from dry lightning as we had here in Qld and many from the firestorms with dry ember attacks.

I agree with the idea that it's not one lone thing producing the change in weather conditions, and in particular the dry conditions - land management for example.

Thanks for posting the link however I read the CO2 contribution as being as responsible as the change in magnetic field? Does that mean you acknowledge at least a causal effect?

I stand by my statement that we are witnessing a tipping point play out. If the continued low rainfall continues, vast areas will never recover. We are seeing large scale change in a small time frame.


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InvisibleNickoloxious
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Registered: 06/18/17
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26419937 - 01/06/20 07:56 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Oh my.
I'm surprised how some people only hold onto one or two factors they believe is true but stick their heads in the sand when it comes to others. Or how political parties will blame one another to push their agendas or find a scapegoat to cover up their contribution to the situation.

In regards to the climate change debate could it be possible that magnetic field or sun spot claims could be working along side more traditional greenhouse gas claims to influence climate change. :shrug:

I can only assume that people deny emissions as being part of the problem because they believe its some big conspiracy to perpetuate left wing economical agendas or cause some kind of mass hysteria among the public?
Honestly though, CO2 & climate change aside are you really ok with Poly-cyclic aromatic hydrocarbons being pumped into the atmosphere faster than nature intended, While we have the technology to utilise cleaner alternatives to energy consumption/production?

~

In regards to the political atmosphere..
I'm a firm believer that a small group of leaders with set in stone beliefs, ideas and agendas will never be able to effectively run an entire country. Give power back to the people letting small and large communities govern themselves.
I honestly hate all forms of government. Especially the shit show that Australia has been recently. Its all lies, finger pointing and more lies back and forth. It's leading some people astray while others bury their heads in the sand. this is stalling real social, economical & environmental progress. (To me at least, that is Australian politics in a nutshell)

As most of us are aware the current Australian government deny climate change is an issue.
They're using the greens as a scapegoat for the fires while trying to sweep aside the fact that they recently cut funding to major fire protection agencies across the country.

They claim that the greens put ahead polices that stop farmers from letting cattle graze in bush land or how they've pushed for public forests to not allow burn offs of excess scrub.
Not only do the greens not have that kind of power. Although I'm sure some of their supporters protested against those activities. Since when did right wing conservatives ever listen to Third party concerns?

I don't know. It just pisses me off how political things get while people and many more animals are dying, habitats and towns are being razed. They need help! not someone to blame.
My homestead was close to getting razed last year & is still at risk right up until march this year. Only Autumn/Winter &  increasingly sporadic summer rainfall give respite from the increasing temperatures now. Fires have always been a thing in this country but they've never been this bad & I think its a combination of many factors. But can't understand why people will only believe in one or two of them & completely dismiss the other side of the argument?

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I agree with the idea that it's not one lone thing producing the change in weather conditions, and in particular the dry conditions - land management for example.


:thumbup:


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Nickoloxious] * 1
    #26419967 - 01/06/20 08:17 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)



--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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InvisibleNickoloxious
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26419979 - 01/06/20 08:27 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Looks as though solar irradiance hasn't had as much influence on our climate as it did prior to the 1960's..


Edited by Nickoloxious (01/06/20 09:09 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26420044 - 01/06/20 09:09 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Global warming happens in the lower atmosphere. You keep posting about shit happening in the upper atmosphere.

You’re way out of your depths


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Registered: 07/09/19
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26420097 - 01/06/20 09:36 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Come back down to earth.  Keep your feet on the ground.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26420143 - 01/06/20 10:18 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)



--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26420317 - 01/07/20 03:06 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
And then there's this :
https://www.nature.com/news/1-500-scientists-lift-the-lid-on-reproducibility-1.19970

Complete lack of integrity in research





The article is very unclear about what their numbers are showing.  "More than 70% of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiments" could just mean that one of many hundreds of experiments that people have tried to reproduce was not reproducible (not 70%).  And there are no examples at all of experiments that were not reproducible to give any context.

Speaking for myself, I've successfully reproduced a great many experiments in college.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26420325 - 01/07/20 03:19 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Maybe our right wing politicians could ask Putin for some advice, he seems to be across it :shrug:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26420537 - 01/07/20 08:09 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)



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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: qman]
    #26421447 - 01/07/20 04:32 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/24-australians-arrested-deliberately-setting-fires-season/story?id=68108272

:facepalm:




We have no shortage of idiots. If there was any guns left they'd be shot.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26421472 - 01/07/20 04:43 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

My impression of Australia in the three weeks I was there and from my Australian relatives is that Australia is like the US if the US had 50% more rednecks.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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