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OfflineSkibike
Noob
Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Opinion on stalled substrate
    #26393581 - 12/21/19 07:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

First time grower wanting to get opinion on bulk substrate. Everything colonized in grain bags fully although took 5 weeks. Now 9 days after transferring to bulk substrate in a tub, I fear it has stalled. Opinions on pics.



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OfflineMycoactive
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Registered: 11/20/19
Posts: 185
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26393613 - 12/21/19 07:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

9 days isn't long. What was your spawn:substrate ratio? Colonized substrate will not always appear solid white. The mycelium is often less dense in certain places which allows you to see the substrate through it. It looks like yours is coming along nicely! Have you introduced fruiting conditions?


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OfflineHolyBolete
Mold Slayer
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/15/19
Posts: 263
Loc: USA ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26393620 - 12/21/19 07:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

People say w shoeboxing it can take up to two weeks to colonize the new substrate/casing layer.

Any funny smells? Too much water in substrate?


Edited by HolyBolete (12/21/19 07:40 AM)


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OfflineSkibike
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Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: HolyBolete]
    #26393656 - 12/21/19 07:59 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks guys. Ugh. Im too noob to know whether it was too wet or not.
No, not yet exposed to fruiting.

I purchased the substrate and had it in the fridge for 7 days or so before transferring it to the tub. I am following a method of leaving the lid completely closed before fruiting and wondering if it needs a little FAE, as this is not a monotub with holes.


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OfflineHolyBolete
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I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/15/19
Posts: 263
Loc: USA ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ
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Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26393680 - 12/21/19 08:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This guy who wrote this tek writes a bunch on the subject: Tek Guide


Edited by HolyBolete (12/21/19 08:13 AM)


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OfflineMycoactive
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Registered: 11/20/19
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Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26393701 - 12/21/19 08:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Skibike said:
I am following a method of leaving the lid completely closed before fruiting and wondering if it needs a little FAE, as this is not a monotub with holes.




It should be fine to leave closed until you're ready to fruit. Your substrate looks colonized enough to introduce FAE at this point and start fruiting.


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OfflineSkibike
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Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Mycoactive]
    #26393728 - 12/21/19 08:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the TeK guide, very useful!

FYI, my grains were 3 pounds to substrate 5 pounds.

Yes, I think I was expecting it to be fully white, like my grain spawn. Ill give it a couple more days as my room temp is in the 71/72 temp range, so not ideal.

Much appreciate the advice!


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OfflineDnDRnD
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Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26393734 - 12/21/19 09:03 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

How did you inoculate your spawn? It sounds bacterial and looks slightly bacterial to although not bacterial enough to be of major concern, should still put off some fruits.

When you prepped your substrate how many drops of water came out when you squeezed a handful?

Might consider giving it a very light mist, you want to have tiny beads of moisture across the surface and then you replace them when they evaporate (shoeboxes tend to be pretty set and forget and usually may only need a fine misting or two before the first flush depending on water content)


--------------------
Bods Easy AF Oat Prep Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24126032

Pastywhytes No Pour Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976

Shaperdreamings Shoebox Assembly Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662

Down with the bourgeoisie and up with the proletariat


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OfflineSkibike
Noob
Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26393797 - 12/21/19 10:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DnDRnD said:
How did you inoculate your spawn? It sounds bacterial and looks slightly bacterial to although not bacterial enough to be of major concern, should still put off some fruits.




Ugh, thats what I was afraid of. Attached is a pic of my grain just prior to adding to substrate. The substrate was purchased.


Also a closer look at my substrate.


Edited by Skibike (12/21/19 10:34 AM)


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OfflineBLINKfan420
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Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 1,078
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26393952 - 12/21/19 12:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The spawn in those bags looks bacterial to me for sure.  I think DnDRnD is spot on.  You probably have some bacteria in that tub but tubs still tend to fruit in those conditions.

BLiNK


--------------------



All my pictures are drawn from imagination.  I don't even know what a mushroom is.


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OfflineSkibike
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Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #26393958 - 12/21/19 12:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BLINKfan420 said:
The spawn in those bags looks bacterial to me for sure.BLiNK




How can you tell, so I can look out for it in the future?

And, is there anything I should do differently now with the tub, to try rescue?

Does contamination happen mostly at inoculation or can it still get contaminated in the bag even after a clean/successful inoculation?

Thanks


Edited by Skibike (12/21/19 12:49 PM)


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OfflineDnDRnD
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Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26394057 - 12/21/19 01:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Skibike said:
Quote:

BLINKfan420 said:
The spawn in those bags looks bacterial to me for sure.BLiNK




How can you tell, so I can look out for it in the future?

And, is there anything I should do differently now with the tub, to try rescue?

Does contamination happen mostly at inoculation or can it still get contaminated in the bag even after a clean/successful inoculation?

Thanks




You can see signs such as odd looking growth, metabolites forming, slow growth, etc. You can also guess at bacteria being present by the multiple over hydrated grains pressed against the bag

The only protection in this case is make your spawn next time instead of buying it, pre made kits are notorious for contamination

Contamination mainly comes from inoculation but can be introduced afterwards as well in certain circumstances, but those are usually situations like your jar/bag breaks or pop open or something along those lines


--------------------
Bods Easy AF Oat Prep Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24126032

Pastywhytes No Pour Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976

Shaperdreamings Shoebox Assembly Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662

Down with the bourgeoisie and up with the proletariat


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OfflineTattersail
Female User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/18
Posts: 285
Last seen: 2 years, 1 day
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26394149 - 12/21/19 02:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Did you inoculate the bags with a syringe yourself? Contamination can easily happen there,  and spore syringes tend to contain some bacteria anyway. Healthy colonised spawn should look mostly white,  rather than that yellow-brown "popcorn" look. Yours will probably still produce enough for a few trips, and temember to take spore prints!

Next time, maybe try making your own BRF (brown rice flour) cakes, or looking into agar and makibg your own grain spawn. It's more reliable, and overall cheaper than kits.


--------------------
LAGM2021
Trades

We may lose or we may win, but we'll never be here again


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OfflineSkibike
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Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Tattersail]
    #26394190 - 12/21/19 03:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes I did the inoculation myself.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,816
Loc: Gaming the system
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Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26394225 - 12/21/19 03:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Itโ€™s got knots already so it looks on schedule.

I think everybody here has run bacterial tubs before, youโ€™ll be good.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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OfflineBLINKfan420
Jedi
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 1,078
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26394230 - 12/21/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DnDRnD said:

You can see signs such as odd looking growth, metabolites forming, slow growth, etc. You can also guess at bacteria being present by the multiple over hydrated grains pressed against the bag




That's spot on again.

The grain may have been too hydrated when you bought it.  You may have put way too much spore solution into the bags. They could have been sitting somewhere too warm.  Or your syringe could have bacteria in it.

Those are the main ways to get bacteria in your spawn.

BLiNK


--------------------



All my pictures are drawn from imagination.  I don't even know what a mushroom is.


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OfflineSkibike
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Registered: 10/05/19
Posts: 32
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #26395140 - 12/22/19 08:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Ok guys, so woke up this morning to see some pinheads appearing. Very surprised. Dont want to get too excited at this point based on previous posts about bacteria etc.

I have not until this stage exposed to fruiting conditions, so I assume now is the time?
.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,816
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Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26395148 - 12/22/19 08:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah definitely time for some air. Youโ€™ll be fine donโ€™t sweat the bacteria until after the first flush. Thatโ€™s when itโ€™s most likely to go south.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26395206 - 12/22/19 09:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Skibike said:
Now 9 days after transferring to bulk substrate in a tub, I fear it has stalled.




:youseethisshit:

your first pic has knots. your tub is fruiting. whats stalled?


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OfflineDnDRnD
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Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: Opinion on stalled substrate [Re: Skibike]
    #26395306 - 12/22/19 10:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Skibike said:
Ok guys, so woke up this morning to see some pinheads appearing. Very surprised. Dont want to get too excited at this point based on previous posts about bacteria etc.

I have not until this stage exposed to fruiting conditions, so I assume now is the time?
.





Shoeboxes are pretty much ALWAYS in fruiting conditions as soon as they're spawned, since they don't latch all the way they always receive some FAE, and since you should have lights on during all stages of growth then theyre already receiving light to :shrug:


--------------------
Bods Easy AF Oat Prep Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24126032

Pastywhytes No Pour Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976

Shaperdreamings Shoebox Assembly Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662

Down with the bourgeoisie and up with the proletariat


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