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junk_f00d



Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw??
#26394461 - 12/21/19 06:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hello Shroomerites!! 
I tried searching the above for awhile now, but pulled up nothing substantial - mostly ideas that were never posted about further. Lots of good info on bagging DRY substrate (see Gr0wer, Drake, and more that I'm already forgetting), but nothing on bagging wet straw. Solarity did post something on using a horizontal auger to push straw out, but if I recall correctly, it didn't have enough HP to push the wet straw.. But it might be worth picking back up. I'm also considering nabbing a cement mixer to mix bulk quantities all at once, so I can just dump the mixed sub straight into an autobagger. Another good idea (from Quadman) that maybe combines both involved the use of a big ol' fuel tank with the top half removed, and mixing instruments within (in his case, DIY ribbon mixer). Perhaps it'd be possible to combine mixing and bagging somehow in a big contraption like that, it'd probably be worth the time..
I think I spend more time bagging straw than any other cultivation-related activity, so if I could speed it up that'd be fantastic. But I'm far from savvy or creative, so some pointers would be great Maybe the answer is to switch to fuel pellets, sawdust or soybean hulls, but if I can make straw work, I'd like to do that for now. Thanks in advance! 
Edited by junk_f00d (12/21/19 06:09 PM)
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mariapilz


Registered: 12/09/17
Posts: 156
Last seen: 22 days, 2 hours
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: junk_f00d]
#26394938 - 12/22/19 03:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe something works ... do you know that? Fermented grass for cows is produced with a silage baler. These devices are also one size larger. .... for the tractor. just a thought
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mariapilz


Registered: 12/09/17
Posts: 156
Last seen: 22 days, 2 hours
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: mariapilz]
#26396762 - 12/23/19 04:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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my idea doesn't seem to please ... but I like it more and more.
I wonder how you treat so much straw? Pasteurize? or lime?
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 13 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: mariapilz]
#26396833 - 12/23/19 06:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pasteurize. Lime baths while they work have too high of a contam ratio to be feasible for a business that needs consistency and low controllable contams.
I thought Drake did straw? Unless I am mixing him up with someone else.
You could make a table used to lay out the straw to let it dry out to field capacity that has a hole on the end that bags could be hooked up so you could push the straw down the hole and into the bag for an easier and much quicker time of it. Or even several holes so you could fill multiple bags at once if you wanted and had the space.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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junk_f00d



Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: seagu]
#26397321 - 12/23/19 12:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I've been doing lime baths with good results (my most recent batch however must have been too wet, or something, as the myc is growing VERY slowly). I'm amazed this method isn't more common! Only downside is it takes a whole 24 hours for soaking and drip drying.
Drake did (does?) straw but I know I saw a machine he made that was using some other pelletized sub, not straw, but I could've misread. The thread is here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18387093. What you describe about the holes in the table is basically the best design I've seen yet, which is implemented here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6766418, and that whole set up is very similar to mine. I also found this GREAT link: https://permies.com/t/91928/Building-workstation-assemble-Great-Big
Seriously if you do straw, take a look at that! He's got the logs lined up on a chute so he can just funnel straw straight from the basket into a log.. Super good design imo (complete with videos for how to make it). Ultimately I'd like to be doing what Drake is doing though (or similar), so I'm trying to keep my investment in straw kinda light.
There's also these videos for straw log creation (just posting this stuff for potential future readers like myself, I guess): list=PLD0FFE079B49DD9FB
I actually really like the setup above, I think mixing with the cement mixer and then funneling into a bottomless bucket is super speedy plan.
Good to have you pop by though Seagu, you seem to be one of the only other shed growers on here! How's that been going?
Edited by junk_f00d (12/23/19 12:35 PM)
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 13 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: junk_f00d]
#26398224 - 12/23/19 08:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think I've seen the thread before with the big white table and the hole on the end. There is another somewhere of someone who did about 10 holes, but I don't think he was using straw and so his table was smaller. And of course can be scaled up as need be for straw.
I have done lime baths with pasteurization for straw. But I would not do just lime pasteurization on its own to try and run a business on. I have read too many threads from TCs and others who don't have that tag but were definately as knowledgeable balk about it for a business. I believe I even saw a video on someone talking about a lime bath business meltdown he had because of contams when he tried to run a business using only lime baths for straw and Oysters. I think he was mentioned how he was doing really well with it on a small scale but when he tried to up the scale it was a complete contamstrophe. I tried looking for the video for you but that was a while ago and I came across it on youtube by mere chance. So, you might want to do some digging on the feasibility of it for banking on it keeping contams at bay for running a business selling to businesses and needing that week to week stability in product. I reserve the right to be wrong but....
How is the shed going for me you ask? Slow and steady. Growing some Blues and LM. Still pulling everything all together working on dialing everything in before approaching any business customers. I actually dialed it back some in scale so I can focus on just enough for 1 customer. Now, I am working on getting my BE correct as I am switching substrates to 50/50 HWFP/Soy pellets, which I just picked up some soy today, which I couldn't get before and had tried bran cause I got an opened bag for free. I got some really nice coloring on my blues from my lighting. And nice coloring sells well so, Yay me. And they taste out of this world says everyone that has tried them. And so just watching things grow and waiting...
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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junk_f00d



Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: seagu]
#26399011 - 12/24/19 11:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the info. I'd definately want to move beyond straw and cold pastuerization ASAP and towards subs that lend themselves more toward mechanization.. Buuut, for now, do you recommend doing anything in addition to lime baths? Or just switching to heat pastuerization entirely? I don't see a problem with getting a burner and a metal drum for that, I need to buy a new burner for homebrewing anyway. I wonder what brings the contaminants with lime pastuerization as it's scaled up though and how this might be prevented..?
I'll have to look at the costs (sub, equipment, space, etc) associated with moving toward different subs. I'd like to be doing something similar to what you mention with HWFP or sawdust and soybean hulls, so maybe it's a good move to just start there. I've been putting this off as I have some anxiety about switching subs, delaying the project and breaking the bank.
Awesome to hear your figuring it out. Smart and pragmatic moves, by the way. What kind of lighting are you running? I've heard good things about 6500k fluorescents but have to buy or try any. And yeah, lot's of waiting..
Edited by junk_f00d (12/24/19 11:47 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: junk_f00d]
#26400125 - 12/25/19 06:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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FWIW I saw a farm go out of business trying to do only cold pasteurization and couldn't re-tool fast enough to do heat pasteurization to keep their heads above water
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junk_f00d



Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26401550 - 12/26/19 12:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FWIW I saw a farm go out of business trying to do only cold pasteurization and couldn't re-tool fast enough to do heat pasteurization to keep their heads above water
Ouch! Fortunately my operation is so tiny that changing to heat pastuerization should be nearly trivial (like just buying a burner and building a platform for a couple drums). Disaster hasn't struck me yet with cold pastuerization, but it seems like a contentious topic. Some farms seem to run fine with it, others not. I don't really know why that is or what's up with it.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 13 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: junk_f00d]
#26402557 - 12/27/19 06:46 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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And case in point brought by bodhisatta.
Just switch to heat pasteurization entirely. A barrel with an electric water element will work just fine. Might be cheaper than going gas burner. It will be running all day kinda thing, heating it all up to temp. Though a bigger wattage element will heat quicker, but even still its a lot of water so it will take a while. I have used a smaller wattage pasteurization barrel setup. Plastic or metal barrels work. If you go plastic barrel you will want to run a metal rod down the side on the inside touching the water and ground it that way. The metal barrels do that automatically in that they are metal and you hook ground up to the barrel. And don't forget to run whichever you choose on a gfi outlet like your bathrooms and kitchens. And the thicker gauge wire not the thin stuff like regular sized extension cords people usually use for their house. You don't want to overheat your wire. I am not an electrician so make sure you check everything and know what you are doing. I think 10 gauge is probably good for all the 120V water heater elements, but check sizing as I didn't go outside and check, just going off the top of my head. If you go electric.
I don't remember all the science explanation on why cold water lime bath pasteurization doesn't scale. But I know you can find it through the search. I know RR talked about it. If even on a small scale it has too high of a fail rate, from a business perspective of needing stability and reliability each week. Every one gets contams. It just fails more kinda thing. Is how I remember it.
Lights? I am using a 6500k high lumen bright led that is waterproof. Though I do have to work on my current lighting configuration which is a temporary change from what I first had planned. And I do need to run more configuration tests before I give a blanket endorsement for what I am using and the best configuration to use, as I am growing under 2 different configurations and I get good coloring under 1 but not as good under the other, which I noticed after I mentioned the good coloring under the 1 configuration. Need to fix that. Also I noticed there is a brighter one even than I am using. I have one that is supposed to be as bright as running a t5. Sunlight bright. When it says don't look at the LEDs when on.. don't.. you will see spots very quickly. Check out the video from Mossy Creek Mushrooms on youtube, when he talks about Lighting. He uses t5s and swears by them and the coloring he gets from them. I didn't want a t5, so I went with as bright as and full spectrum.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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junk_f00d



Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: seagu]
#26403461 - 12/27/19 06:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, thanks guys. I'll switch over to heat, better now then after a disaster. I was kinda bothered by cold pastuerization taking 2 days anyway; my goal is to be able to process (pastuerize AND bag) an entire bale of hay in one day - that'd be awesome. But that'll never happen with the cold method since it has to soak for at least 16 hours.
Watching that video now, thanks! Those T5s look good. I know a few people who may have some extras, hopefully I can barter for something cheap.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 13 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: junk_f00d]
#26404304 - 12/28/19 09:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh well, don't let my hesitation dissuade you from LEDs if you have your mind set on using them. Because, like I said above the one I got is as bright as a t5 ballast and there is brighter(more Lumens). And the lighting configuration that works for the dark blues for me is setup similar to how a ballast would be hanging above the fruits, but closer like say top shelf or two. And the one that doesn't work as well has at least half the lights as the configuration that works, which makes sense as to why it doesn't get as dark, it is just not setup as I intended when I bought everything. Also, I should note that it was a warmer week often when the one that didn't get as dark grew out. And colder temps contribute to darker blue as well. So that could have been the factor. I won't know for sure which until I run more tests.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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junk_f00d



Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Fastest CHEAP Way to Bag Lots of Wet Straw?? [Re: seagu]
#26405263 - 12/28/19 07:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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No I honestly haven't put much thought into lighting yet, I've been just planning on figuring it out when I get there. My brother ended up having some stuff I could barter for, so I'm picking up a couple T5s lamps on Monday.
Can't believe it's almost January already! Boy I'm behind schedule, lol.
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