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OfflineSandsandy
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Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience?
    #26394910 - 12/22/19 02:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hi philosophers,
When I read Quran and listen to dmt experiences I see too many similarities.
In my opinion Mohammad and people how have dmt experience, they saw the same world.
These amount of similarities it is not something happened by chance.
I want to hear about your opinions too.


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Offlinefaoneus
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26394915 - 12/22/19 02:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I know God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush. There just so happens to be a bush endemic to Egypt that contains DMT.

In Egypt. A burning bush.


Edited by faoneus (12/22/19 02:50 AM)


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OfflineKmacmo
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26394921 - 12/22/19 02:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting stuff, I think youre right though.

That's probably how most religious books are written, while tripping balls on some shrooms or dmt.

The quran/bible (+loads more books) all have something in common, who ever wrote them all had some really potent psychodelics at hand..


Remember psychodelics were not a class A drug or even seen as taboo in those days, people knew if you ate them you'd have a good chance of actually meeting God. To a person that believes in God that must have been the highest/best moment of their life.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26394942 - 12/22/19 03:27 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Debatable for sure, can we know for certain? Probably not. I'd argue in favor of most prophets probably tripping to some extent, talking "directly with god", etc.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineSandsandy
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26394963 - 12/22/19 04:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with you (kmacmo) psychedelic was not class A drug. But it doesn't mean all people at that time interesed to have psychedelice experience. Because even prophets had difficulty to bring people attention toward the life after our current material life.


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OfflineSandsandy
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26394986 - 12/22/19 05:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

If you watch this video in youtube:
( dmt: experiencing the impossible)
You will see all of them explaining the same thing for transition from this world to another world. It starts with all material world around you destroy itself and then they travel through tunnel and finally when they reach to other side of tunnel they hear very loud sound.
All these procedures are similar to quran
Sura 69: Incontestable (Al-Haaqqah) [69:13] When the horn is blown once.

[69:14] The earth and the mountains will be carried off and crushed; utterly crushed.

[69:15] That is the day when the inevitable event will come to pass.

Maybe Mohammad when he had dmt experience he was sitting on top of mountains.


Edited by Sandsandy (12/22/19 05:22 AM)


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OfflineLazaro
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26395409 - 12/22/19 10:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That's a fascinating idea that I've been hearing about lately about the Bible. The interesting thing in the Bible is how very rapidly Yavhe forbids magic, sorcery, etc.

We can believe that this would include these kind of substances as well?

Yavhé is very insistent that people believe only in him, not in other Gods. The stories in the Bible revolve heavily on the Israelis accepting other, pagan cults, like those of Canaan, and then plagues and worse coming as a consequence.

Probably psychedelics would easily allow a return to polyteism: a way to easily see other Gods, a multitude of Gods; it would make sense to forbid them.

I lack knowledge about Islam at this point.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26395710 - 12/22/19 02:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

DMT never made me want to fuck a goat or an underaged girl or kill a gay or blow myself up or throw acid in a woman's face or...

:goat:


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26395725 - 12/22/19 02:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
Hi philosophers,
When I read Quran and listen to dmt experiences I see too many similarities.
In my opinion Mohammad and people how have dmt experience, they saw the same world.
These amount of similarities it is not something happened by chance.
I want to hear about your opinions too.



Time for the proverbial :


I'd like your opinion on this instead...
And yes, the above graphic answers your question.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26395734 - 12/22/19 02:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
If you watch this video in youtube:
( dmt: experiencing the impossible)
You will see all of them explaining the same thing for transition from this world to another world. It starts with all material world around you destroy itself and then they travel through tunnel and finally when they reach to other side of tunnel they hear very loud sound.
All these procedures are similar to quran
Sura 69: Incontestable (Al-Haaqqah) [69:13] When the horn is blown once.

[69:14] The earth and the mountains will be carried off and crushed; utterly crushed.

[69:15] That is the day when the inevitable event will come to pass.

Maybe Mohammad when he had dmt experience he was sitting on top of mountains.




You're in your head... you don't travel anywhere.
You're in that big brain of yours and yes it is that magical and transcendent.

As for spoopy passages, any well formed mind can make these up at will.
The proverbial 'light at the end of the tunnel' adage has been around forever long before middle eastern religions (Judiasm->Christianity->Islam). People put far too much weight on these religions but its understandable given how many 'crusades' and force was placed on people to accept them. Meanwhile, in the east, they have far more transcendent and mystical traditions steeped in their religion.. Much more pure theology vs human figures preaching from the pulpit.

Was Van Gogh on DMT?


Not everything is about drugs... And taking a drug doesn't give you a magical brain. If a person huffs paint, they will see wild/transcendent things as well. Altered states are interesting but not some magical holy grail into the universe.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy] * 2
    #26395793 - 12/22/19 03:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I do not know why so many individuals on this forum want to reduce visionary experiences to drug "occasioned" experiences and that is all they seem to see. It is not the mechanism of these visions that are significant and which have shaped the minds of billions of people. This is materialistic reductionism. It is like a saying that is in The Yellow Book by Baba Hari Das: "When a pickpocket meets a saint, all he sees are his pockets." Visions are not to be understood literally. In Hebrew writings they are midrash. In Greek and Hindu writings they are mythos. In ancient Egyptian contexts they are magickal. Gnostic writings may be mythic or embody elements of magick. These are all linguistic means for the illustration of transcendental realities. The fact that certain biochemical catalysts can "occasion" visionary and more importantly mystical experiences leaves the philosophical importance of these conditions quite neglected if one looks only at the contingent minutia. One fails to see the forest for the trees. All psychological experiences have physiological/biochemical correlates, but correlation is not causation. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineSandsandy
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Lazaro]
    #26395896 - 12/22/19 04:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

In Islam is the same. Unity, oneness or tawhid is the main aspect of Islam.
Yes God don't like its creatures to pray toward false gods. It looks like you giving gift to someone and he says thankyou to another person. I don't want to humanize God. But in my opinion if you want to understand how God thinks you need to understand how human thinks. Because we are reflection of God.


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OfflineSandsandy
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #26395914 - 12/22/19 04:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Your comment is full of hate.
I didn't bring up this discussion in a mosque, church or Temple. I am not here to defence Islam or Moslems behavior. You have chance to experience and study new ideas please use your chance properly.


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26395932 - 12/22/19 04:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think he probably had a genuine mystical experience but like many others, came to horrible conclusions based on it.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26395961 - 12/22/19 04:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I do not know why so many individuals on this forum want to reduce visionary experiences to drug "occasioned" experiences and that is all they seem to see. It is not the mechanism of these visions that are significant and which have shaped the minds of billions of people. This is materialistic reductionism. It is like a saying that is in The Yellow Book by Baba Hari Das: "When a pickpocket meets a saint, all he sees are his pockets." Visions are not to be understood literally. In Hebrew writings they are midrash. In Greek and Hindu writings they are mythos. In ancient Egyptian contexts they are magickal. Gnostic writings may be mythic or embody elements of magick. These are all linguistic means for the illustration of transcendental realities. The fact that certain biochemical catalysts can "occasion" visionary and more importantly mystical experiences leaves the philosophical importance of these conditions quite neglected if one looks only at the contingent minutia. One fails to see the forest for the trees. All psychological experiences have physiological/biochemical correlates, but correlation is not causation. :shrug:




Couldn't have said this better myself.
Religion is metaphor, theology, and story telling across human history.
It's never to be taken literally. In my opinion, it does a person a spiritual disservice to view past figures as mythical/special people. There are no special people on earth. If you want a cultivated mind and want to speak of such a mind-state, you must put in the hard work to develop it. There is a person for every day of the year that fits these popular figures of religion. How said that people marry themselves so much to the past and stories therein that they fail to see them unfolding in the present.


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OfflineSandsandy
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26395963 - 12/22/19 04:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't care where we are going after life the thing is important is how we feel and the duration of that experience. Inside or outside both should have been created otherwise there is no existance for us to experience it. Human is not creator we can not add a law to physic laws we can not make molecular substance from nothing we can just combine them.
I am not promoteing drug usage but drug facilitate the journey. You can look at it as technology which we can use it to reach our goals.
It is like you want to compete in mr olampia but you don't want use any drug,  it is not possible if you want become 150 kg pure muscels you need to use certain drugs. Or you want to travel 100 km in one hour without using car it is not possible.
Maybe one junkie with dmt experience has more enlightment than one monk how pray for 60 years in cave.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26395978 - 12/22/19 05:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
In Islam is the same. Unity, oneness or tawhid is the main aspect of Islam.
Yes God don't like its creatures to pray toward false gods. It looks like you giving gift to someone and he says thankyou to another person. I don't want to humanize God. But in my opinion if you want to understand how God thinks you need to understand how human thinks. Because we are reflection of God.




In broader theology and spiritual understanding, the universe and beyond is one. There is no praise for what simply 'is'. There is admiration. There is respect... and there is truth which is of account of one's opened eye experience. There's no gifts you can give that have value. You think to highly of yourself. God is not human. You are as is everything a creation of God. To say you are a reflection of good is to take a chair, composed of trillions upon trillions upon trillions of atoms, put it in front of a mirror and point out a single dynamic atom and say .. ah', what a reflection. You see nothing of the grand works of this universe so as to say you are a 'reflection' of God. You are a reflection of a spec of sand in the grand scheme of function/design. You can obtain greatness and then there will be trillions upon trillions more levels above that. So humbly strive you do. Of your praise/gifting, there is nothing more than your own pride/ego.

Religion has a long dated history. Man has been creating it, and prophets, and mystics, etc since the beginning of time. No one along the chain has the all encompassing story. Sadly, adherents literally believe this to their own spiritual folly. It helps them get through the day I guess and they make it their world because they don't want to suffer themselves to see beyond it. It is indeed why religions eventually come and go and evolve with time. The same ancient story falls way to the truth unraveling over time .. For the one grand truth is far more infinite than some snapshot account.

The world will see this in the years to come as more popular religions are ceded by truth that all eyes can see... If adherents call that grand 'reveal' revelations, so be it. Their time will come and go and the train will keep on chugging along as it has for all of history.

People think too highly of themselves and themselves far too important than what they are. This goes esp for ego minded cultural groupings. Billions of other people on earth under different languages/beliefs, billions more years to go, but people in their cultural enclaves think in their spec of a lifetime that they are the all knowing adherents to truth..

:canthelpbutlaugh:

As for the cool visuals, take a look in your own history before Islam became the cool religion of the times. It's embedded in the culture/written language that predates the religion.. as is always
People don't even know their own history and where they came from but want to talk about 'traces to God'.. *sigh


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OfflineSandsandy
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26395988 - 12/22/19 05:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

In my opinion the mechanism is important. For traveling from one reality to another reality we need to pass through certain steps similar to creation of us in this world. All people in different part of world are created in the same way. The mechanism will show us it is not just imagination or bullshit story on the other hand it shows the experience has the order like our life which has the order.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26396013 - 12/22/19 05:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
I don't care where we are going after life the thing is important is how we feel and the duration of that experience.



Everyone's got feelings like butt-holes.. There are no absolute 'feelings'. They're a dynamic toss up that can be determined by adjusting knobs. After-life/fore-life... no one knows so they make up stories. Has been occurring for all of human history. The 'east' has far more grounded/sensible theology. Religions are geographically/culturally steeped... the lore reads clearly as such. In barren deserts, people come up with fitting lore. Not the kind you'll ever find in a land of plenty. Yet, the common adherent is blind to this because they marry soo deeply to their narrow cultural lensing of the world that they think it transcends life and death... As if God himself is a white European, an Arab, jew, etc...  Provincial, survival, unified force, and conquer focused. The world is going to grow beyond this enslaved cultural mindset eventually.


Quote:

Sandsandy said:
Inside or outside both should have been created otherwise there is no existance for us to experience it.




Yes, there is something outside the tiny amount of time you live and die.
Some trees will still be here. The earth will.. The moon. You're nobody trying to become somebody in the grand scheme of things.


Quote:

Sandsandy said:
Human is not creator we can not add a law to physic laws we can not make molecular substance from nothing we can just combine them.




We are manipulators of what 'is'... correct


Quote:

Sandsandy said:
I am not promoteing drug usage but drug facilitate the journey.




Drugs mainly turn up the volume and/or increase or decrease filters.
Some crappy drugs just scramble brain signals and neuro-chemistry. You're on a journey regardless. Drugs don't grant you intelligence/knowledge. They grant you an increased view/more focused view/scrambled view/etc.

Once you 'return', you still have to do the hard work to make something of it. Your brain, hopefully remains in tact.. and so there you are again...  If you weren't that intelligent before you still won't be after. If you weren't knowledgeable before you still wont be after.. All you get is a 'glimpse'. What you do after that is where the true 'change'
comes. If you call this facilitating your journey' I'll grant you that. However, as its possible to 'supersede' the biggest druggie on earth spiritually with no drugs, drugs clearly aren't the key.. Also, as much as they can boost they can diminish... As much as they can 'build' they can break. So, this really isn't something to popularize or go mainstream with especially the lack of intelligence/awareness in the west... You'll be turning the volume up on idiocy/mental instability/dysfunction not 'awakening' people to spiritual enlightenment.. Set/setting.

For every prophet of history, there's 100 less known people with far more spiritual/theological development. The universe isn't some celebrity pageant.

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
You can look at it as technology which we can use it to reach our goals.
It is like you want to compete in mr olampia but you don't want use any drug,  it is not possible if you want become 150 kg pure muscels you need to use certain drugs. Or you want to travel 100 km in one hour without using car it is not possible.




I don't try to 'look' so as to make up my own story.
I instead try to see it for what it truly is.
It turns the volume up/down in your brain and increases/decreases filters.
It strengthens/messes up communication/signals.

Your brain will attempt to reason through anything thrown at it. So there you are in the passenger seat.. Seeing things in a new 'light'. You dont become some Superstar athlete. You don't become Einstein. You're just given a different ride. What you do with it esp after is what determines the outcome. Most do nothing of higher value tbqh... The people who do were already those types before.

A psychedelic can cure Alcoholism? So can someone waterboarding you till your close to death unless you stop. So can a car crash that almost ends your life... If you want to call the jarring relaxation of filters in your mind that allow you to see 'yourself' and your good/bad attributes and beyond 'technology'.. So be it. A lot of people don't need 'wake up calls' to see life/universe. They exercise that part of their brain so often that they get the realizations sober. Your one trip doesn't allow you to transcend them.. Instead, you simply got a 'glimpse' into their sober higher minded world. 


Quote:

Sandsandy said:
Maybe one junkie with dmt experience has more enlightment than one monk how pray for 60 years in cave.



Cool story. Sounds like a low IQ/junkie stroking their ego. They get a glimpse/taste of enlightenment and think for the short time they grasped it that they will maintain it for their waking life.. Of course, when the high/after-glow die off and thus their grip of that feeling, they're right back at the trough for another 'fix'... whereas the monk lives that daily w/ no assistance. This is the true difference between the drug junkie and a 'monk'.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26396026 - 12/22/19 05:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
In my opinion the mechanism is important. For traveling from one reality to another reality we need to pass through certain steps similar to creation of us in this world. All people in different part of world are created in the same way. The mechanism will show us it is not just imagination or bullshit story on the other hand it shows the experience has the order like our life which has the order.




You brain has structure and order... that is pretty universal across human beings, if you perturb or jolt it enough, it indeed settles right back into an 'influenced' and common structure. Yes, you can tell yourself that you 'transcended' reality but in reality you only perturbed 'reality'. If I get rose tinted glasses and put them on your face, you indeed will have a common experience among most people. Did you 'transcend' (go above) reality? No, you just were given an altered view of it.

You tell yourself you 'transcended' because your ever present ego likes to reason that you made a positive/valuable choice.. You already had this decided before you went into the experience and thus carried it with you.

This is why set/setting are important going in..
It's all you, you're still in that magical head of yours, and your brain is still trying to reason/structure what it is exposed to. You have universal experiences because every has a brain just like you doing the same thing with a similar chemical perturbation.

Indeed, why not subscribe deep/positive/transcendent and magical traits to it? You want the best out of the experience you invested in heavily /took risk to have after-all?

I stand on the shoulder of giants and religion has greatly profited me in my life.. Namely because I experienced it as 'spiritual' training wheels until I gained the skill to be able to 'transcend' it on my own accord... But to race around with ancient training wheels dictating this is the one and only interpretation of the world.. Woe is you especially in ever increasing cycles of dispensations of truth/progress.

To be that dude who has a drug experience or many and just seems to bask in it, woe is you especially in ever increasing cycles of dispensations of truth/progress.

Respect the past/teachings therein.
Consume and understand them. Master them.
Transcend them.


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