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OfflineToTheSummit
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My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy * 2
    #26394267 - 12/21/19 03:59 PM (6 months, 17 days ago)

Can we just start by all admitting that Trump is a buffoon?  Like him or hate him, the man is a clown.  In my opinion the Democrats should have just sat back through his first term and pointed to every damn-fool thing he says and roll their eyes.  Trump himself would be the best ally they had in defeating him in 2020. But Trump has struck a nerve like no other, and people are absolutely bat-shit crazy about hating the man.  The mere mention of his name sends some of my Liberal friends into fits.  Its not unlike the effect Obama had on some of my Ultra-Conservative friends, but the Trump thing has taken polarization to new heights.

So instead of just highlighting the often petty and sophomoric things he does Democrats have instead embarked on a foolish attempt to damage his viability as a candidate in 2020 with an extremely ridiculous impeachment.  Of course I think they made it clear that this would be their goal even before he was inaugurated.  We can debate the validity of this impeachment all day, but in the end everyone knows he will never be removed from office in a Senate trial.

I'm old enough to remember the Clinton impeachment well.  I thought that one was ridiculous.  This one rises to a new level of partisan hatred for the president.  Anyone who actually watched (or listened to, as I did) the hearings in the Intelligence and Judiciary committees (and I'm talking actually sitting through hours and hours of them, not just catching highlights on the news or talk shows) cannot, without suspending intellectual honesty, say they were either fair, thorough or non-partisan.  IMO Schiff and Nadlers performances as committee chairs were sad at best.

I believe the way the whole thing has been handled is going to come back to bite the Democrats in the ass in 2020, much like the Clinton impeachment did to the Republicans.  I was really waiting for some bombshell in this whole thing, but in the end the two terribly weak articles of impeachment put forward just add to the feeling that this has actually been, as Trump is so fond of saying, a witch hunt.  And now Pelosi is playing games with sending them on to the Senate until she can be sure it will be "fair".  Yeah, cause the House was so fair about it all, right?  And do we really think that it WILL be fair when McConnell get his turn at it?  Lets face it, impeachment is a partisan political process, and it always will be.  So lets not pretend there is anything noble or solemn going on here right now, on either side of the process.

So where does this whole thing leave us?  I'm of the belief that the bitter taste left behind in the American voters mouth could actually work in Trumps favor.  And should he get elected for a second term I think he will have the Democrats to thank for it.  And if he gets a second term he will be able to deepen what I believe will be his legacy in the lens of history.  And its a legacy that no amount of disgracing the man or his presidency can tear down.  I'm talking about Judicial appointments.

Trump has already made his mark on the the future of this country.  Forget his policies and all the programs he chooses to either support or tear down.  The real effect he has had is in the Judiciary.  And I'm not only talking his 2 Supreme Court nominees.  I recently heard a stat that he has nominated something like 20% of all  district court judges and over a quarter of all appellate court judges sitting on the bench today.  The pace at which he has filled the judiciary with his nominees is unprecedented. No other president even comes close.  And should Democrats hand him a second term imagine possibility of another Supreme court nominee added to all the rest that will no doubt continue.  While everyone is crying about him doing things like pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord he has quietly altered the future of this country right under their noses.

No matter what you think of him and his policies the fact remains that Trumps presidency will leave a lasting mark on this country.  Probably more of a mark then most of his predecessors.  The wild-eyed Trump haters will all say its for the worse.  The fawning Trump supporters will praise him.  This is no surprise on either side.  I fall somewhere in the middle.  Although I dislike the man personally I am not just of the opinion that 100% of his policies are bad.  Of course, being a somewhat radical Libertarian I have a tendency to get cross-ways with people on either side of the aisle depending on the topic at hand.  But no matter where you fall, Trumps name and influence will long outlive the man.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 2
    #26395053 - 12/22/19 06:58 AM (6 months, 16 days ago)

This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.


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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: metalfaith]
    #26395116 - 12/22/19 08:01 AM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman]
    #26395253 - 12/22/19 09:39 AM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:




I knew this would happen as a response here.  I don't blame anyone for being like this though.  Its hard to remain objective when you have such a high level of disdain for a person.  I have fallen prey to the same thing in the past.  And Trump has earned most of the hatred he garners.  But anyone with some intellectual honesty has to admit the partisan nature of the impeachment.  And there was plenty of reason to dislike Obama at times (and Bush, and Clinton, etc.)  But a dislike for someone doesn't excuse political blindness.  Birthers were idiots, and I mocked them.  But a whole group of people have seemed to lost their damn minds over Trump.  And I'm afraid they are shooting themselves in the foot by helping his re-election chances.  If he gets another term I'm gonna laugh my ass off and face palm at the same time.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 1
    #26395273 - 12/22/19 09:49 AM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Oh, and the only response I have for metalfaith is regarding your final statement.  You despise Trump so much that you cannot even mask it when you label him as stupid.  Its just petty name calling, and in my opinion unfounded.  Trump is many things.  Narcissistic, petulant, immature, selfish, crude, thoughtless and most certainly has a bit of a God complex.  And thats just for starters.  But the man is definitely not stupid to have managed to get himself elected to the most powerful position in the entire world.  People loved to label Bush as stupid also because he wasn't a very good public speaker, but I think he was an extremely intelligent person and those people just said the same thing because they hated him.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman] * 2
    #26395659 - 12/22/19 01:54 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:




Apparently you don't know what bias is, opinions you don't agree with isn't always bias


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26395718 - 12/22/19 02:32 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Can we just start by all admitting that Trump is a buffoon?  Like him or hate him, the man is a clown.  In my opinion the Democrats should have just sat back through his first term and pointed to every damn-fool thing he says and roll their eyes.  Trump himself would be the best ally they had in defeating him in 2020. But Trump has struck a nerve like no other, and people are absolutely bat-shit crazy about hating the man.  The mere mention of his name sends some of my Liberal friends into fits.  Its not unlike the effect Obama had on some of my Ultra-Conservative friends, but the Trump thing has taken polarization to new heights.

So instead of just highlighting the often petty and sophomoric things he does Democrats have instead embarked on a foolish attempt to damage his viability as a candidate in 2020 with an extremely ridiculous impeachment.  Of course I think they made it clear that this would be their goal even before he was inaugurated.  We can debate the validity of this impeachment all day, but in the end everyone knows he will never be removed from office in a Senate trial.

I'm old enough to remember the Clinton impeachment well.  I thought that one was ridiculous.  This one rises to a new level of partisan hatred for the president.  Anyone who actually watched (or listened to, as I did) the hearings in the Intelligence and Judiciary committees (and I'm talking actually sitting through hours and hours of them, not just catching highlights on the news or talk shows) cannot, without suspending intellectual honesty, say they were either fair, thorough or non-partisan.  IMO Schiff and Nadlers performances as committee chairs were sad at best.

I believe the way the whole thing has been handled is going to come back to bite the Democrats in the ass in 2020, much like the Clinton impeachment did to the Republicans.  I was really waiting for some bombshell in this whole thing, but in the end the two terribly weak articles of impeachment put forward just add to the feeling that this has actually been, as Trump is so fond of saying, a witch hunt.  And now Pelosi is playing games with sending them on to the Senate until she can be sure it will be "fair".  Yeah, cause the House was so fair about it all, right?  And do we really think that it WILL be fair when McConnell get his turn at it?  Lets face it, impeachment is a partisan political process, and it always will be.  So lets not pretend there is anything noble or solemn going on here right now, on either side of the process.

So where does this whole thing leave us?  I'm of the belief that the bitter taste left behind in the American voters mouth could actually work in Trumps favor.  And should he get elected for a second term I think he will have the Democrats to thank for it.  And if he gets a second term he will be able to deepen what I believe will be his legacy in the lens of history.  And its a legacy that no amount of disgracing the man or his presidency can tear down.  I'm talking about Judicial appointments.

Trump has already made his mark on the the future of this country.  Forget his policies and all the programs he chooses to either support or tear down.  The real effect he has had is in the Judiciary.  And I'm not only talking his 2 Supreme Court nominees.  I recently heard a stat that he has nominated something like 20% of all  district court judges and over a quarter of all appellate court judges sitting on the bench today.  The pace at which he has filled the judiciary with his nominees is unprecedented. No other president even comes close.  And should Democrats hand him a second term imagine possibility of another Supreme court nominee added to all the rest that will no doubt continue.  While everyone is crying about him doing things like pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord he has quietly altered the future of this country right under their noses.

No matter what you think of him and his policies the fact remains that Trumps presidency will leave a lasting mark on this country.  Probably more of a mark then most of his predecessors.  The wild-eyed Trump haters will all say its for the worse.  The fawning Trump supporters will praise him.  This is no surprise on either side.  I fall somewhere in the middle.  Although I dislike the man personally I am not just of the opinion that 100% of his policies are bad.  Of course, being a somewhat radical Libertarian I have a tendency to get cross-ways with people on either side of the aisle depending on the topic at hand.  But no matter where you fall, Trumps name and influence will long outlive the man.




Had a convo with a life long friend about MJ legalization. I mentioned I thought trump might sign a federal bill if presented to him. Friend freaked the fuck out like idk, like how dare I even suggest that he could do something other than buffoonery

Like the impeachment of Clinton crossed the line into presidential sex that cannot be uncrossed, the Obama and subsequent trump presidencies have  pushed us further into open resentment and violence than this country has been in generations. Accusations of racism, illegitimacy, treason, hidden agendas, conspiracies and allegiances to foreign power however ridiculous are given air time and then allowed to reverberate in an circle jerk of comments and outrage on other's comments and outrage till the next.

What passes for journalism is partisan propaganda.

In literal terms we have crossed the Rubicon with the nuclear option. We'll never go back and it's already backfired on the originators as judges now get pushed through without bipartisan support.

Not sure where we go from here.

I am sure the impeachment was a giant waste of tax payer money and diversion from getting things done.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26395910 - 12/22/19 04:24 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:




Apparently you don't know what bias is, opinions you don't agree with isn't always bias



Not always, but opinions are usually loaded with bias.  Its the very nature of having an opinion.  We all have bias, its just whether or not we can set aside our bias long enough to see the point the other person is making even when we don't agree.  And metalfaiths post was loaded with obvious bias.  Terms like "completely retarded", "stupid" and "compete idiot" (his spelling there, not mine) every time he refers to Trump make everything he says nothing but pure bias.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26395919 - 12/22/19 04:26 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Not sure where we go from here.



I doubt its going to be pretty.  I got another good 25 years or so in me and then you guys can have this crazy ball of string and I won't have to worry about it.  Thank God I never had kids to pass this mess on to!


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26396063 - 12/22/19 05:57 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
I got another good 25 years or so in me and then you guys can have this crazy ball of string and I won't have to worry about it.  Thank God I never had kids to pass this mess on to!





Sounds like we're sailing similar vessels in these regards.

But I'm not waiting for the reaper; I've already been shedding the worries about our collective heading.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 2
    #26396122 - 12/22/19 06:33 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

So what youre saying is that trump is a ridiculous clown, but calling him stupid is going too far and shows people's bias? Listen I know some dumb fuck con men. People who grift off of people via emotion. That's all Trump is. You dont have to be smart to do that. Sure its a smart move, but it doesnt take a smart person to figure that out. Hes like one of those seed faith preachers.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #26396137 - 12/22/19 06:42 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

It doesn’t take a smart man to fool stupid people


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26396146 - 12/22/19 06:49 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

Exactly.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #26396150 - 12/22/19 06:51 PM (6 months, 16 days ago)

To be honest I think its more about the republicans just caring whether or not they will win. People on thebleft are principled enough to not vote for a democratic candidate if that candidate doesnt represent their views. See: people who wouldnt vote clinton because she wasnt Bernie. Republicans can band together under any tool bag so long as they arent democrats.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 2
    #26396598 - 12/23/19 12:44 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

I voted for Trump because he was a clown and Hillary was a demon. And I'd rather have a clown for president then a demon. That said Trump aint no Jesus Christ so far as i can tell, however the crackdown on pedophilia and human trafficking has skyrocketed since his inauguration so far as I can tell; economically it seems the poor have still be largely left behind in, however I don't think anything Trump has done is worthy of removing him from office; especially if we compare it to what past presidents have done; that said I think the democrats should have focused on developing the 'perfect' candidate for 2020 instead of fighting with all this impeachment b.s. They got Tulsi, who's as perfect as they're going to get, and I'd be willing to bet a lot that the DNC won't nominate her regardless.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: dreamachine]
    #26396844 - 12/23/19 06:13 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

You do realize human trafficking is up 800+ percent right? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/human-sex-trafficking-up-842-california-leads
I'll give it to Donnie and his wife though they are trying to fight it.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26396847 - 12/23/19 06:26 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

voted for Trump because he was a clown and Hillary was a demon.




  Demons aren’t even a real thing . Clowns do exist though .
If you think The Republican Party is kinda silly and the Democratic Party was literally spawned in hell your probably an independent .


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Edited by Psilynut2 (12/23/19 06:36 AM)


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: metalfaith]
    #26396853 - 12/23/19 06:34 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship.



I think this wil be remembered as a very key point in his presidency, believe it or not. Most of the more famous political figures in history have the very distinct qualifier of stocking their senate, cabinet, etc. etc. with yesmen. Incompetent, inexperienced, yesmen. Every famous Roman consul or emperor. Every 'pushy' president of the us. Every cartel leader or gang leader. Every dictator/authoritarian. Most influential, powerful people, have a crucial part of their story in common, and that is deliberately surrounding themselves with yesmen. Always helps to achieve quick success, and leads to slow failure. Regardless, is a very important thing to note, and a key point to acknowledge.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: dreamachine]
    #26396894 - 12/23/19 07:19 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Hillary was a demon.



This kind of talk has no place in public discourse. There’s no such thing as demons


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 1
    #26396916 - 12/23/19 07:40 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
...the man is definitely not stupid to have managed to get himself elected to the most powerful position in the entire world...




It seems this just isn't true. You can , in fact, be a complete moron and still get elected by complete morons. It happens all over the world again and again.

:cookiemonster:

::edit::

Christmas and stuff

:flyagaricsanta:


Edited by mycoprog (12/23/19 07:44 AM)


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: mycoprog] * 2
    #26398294 - 12/23/19 08:57 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

"Trump is a stupid con-man!  Republicans are brain-dead Morons who vote for anyone with an R in front of their name! Anyone who doesn't agree with my views is a big doo-doo head!"
Blah, Blah, Blah

I get bored with it.  Its the reason I don't often talk politics, especially on the internet where anonymity makes people act more bold (and stupid) than they would in a civilized conversation.  Right now its the folks on the left so worked up about Trump.  A real honest discussion is near impossible.  I kinda feel bad for people who carry so much angst around about a single man. But folks on the right get the same way at times.  I remember the very mention of Obamas name sending people into fits.  But painting an entire group of people with a bold brush just because you don't agree with them will always get you to about the same place, a dead end.

In my original post I really just felt like expressing some of my views. And as of yet I haven't seen any real good rebuttal to any of them.  The impeachment is still partisan, on both sides (change my mind).  Trump isn't going anywhere until the election (change my mind).  The Democrats handling of Trump, his presidency and the impeachment may actually help Trumps re-election (change my mind).  No matter what happens to Trump he has altered the course of this country through the judiciary (change my mind).

But if you just wanna tell me again how stupid Trump and his voters are don't bother.  Your opinion is tainted and I don't care to hear the rest of your flawed opinions.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26398314 - 12/23/19 09:19 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

So are you going to keep checking back to make sure no one tells you their opinion or are just not going to look ?  I always wonder what people do after they tell other people to stop talking to them online .


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Psilynut2] * 6
    #26398432 - 12/23/19 11:55 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

People voted for trump as a fuck you to democrats, Hillary Clinton and the entire political system which has failed us in many ways. The consequence is being closerto WW3 since the cold war, crippling trade wars, slashing the EPA during climate chaos, taking Obama care out without having any replacement plan, slashing social security disability insurance, a president that praises Kim Jong and Putin making excuses for them, a president that goes to any lengths to call any criticism fake news (including fox news just recently he said they are failing millions of Americans because they had an unfavorable poll about him) he sets sweeping policy through high string 3am tweets, he has no filter which connects with people but isn't how you run a country nd the free world.

He appoints people like Betsy Devos who knows nothing about education and whenever she talks she makes Pelosi sound like fucking Einstein. He's a president that thinks the "perfect" conduct is to do exactly what Nixon did by getting incriminating information about a political rival but even Nixon didn't have a different country do the dirty work, he thinks it's "perfect" that 90 minutes after the call with the Ukranian president he put a hold on funding as he laid out in his deal and immediately released the funds when it became public.

A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that. When the leader of the free world can tell a US born mixed race women to go back where she came from the rest of America starts to think that's acceptable along with everything else I outlined.

Also I think some people like offending people to feel like they rebel against the "norm" but it's just narcissistic sarcastic "hate"


--------------------
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Offlinekoods
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26398446 - 12/24/19 12:04 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Great post


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26398644 - 12/24/19 05:43 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Thank you. My most avid trump supporter friend even admits he didnt expect any kind of real meaningful change from trump he just didnt want hilary (mostly be ause he believes in pizza gate theories and also thinks she is "a demon"). I didnt loke her because of the same reason I dont like trump. There's no real meaningful change under either of them. Just like there wasnt with Obama. And yes you have to be pretty stupid not to vote for meaningful change, especially when you act like you voted for someone who espoused how he was going to drain the swamp. My father voted for trump and as soon as he started appointing cabinet members he realized how wrong he was. I like how the left can be called melty snowflakes, or whatever but as soon as you mention the retard in office they want to take their ball home and stop playing.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26398677 - 12/24/19 06:08 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
"Trump is a stupid con-man!  Republicans are brain-dead Morons who vote for anyone with an R in front of their name! Anyone who doesn't agree with my views is a big doo-doo head!"
Blah, Blah, Blah

I get bored with it.  Its the reason I don't often talk politics, especially on the internet where anonymity makes people act more bold (and stupid) than they would in a civilized conversation.  Right now its the folks on the left so worked up about Trump.  A real honest discussion is near impossible.  I kinda feel bad for people who carry so much angst around about a single man. But folks on the right get the same way at times.  I remember the very mention of Obamas name sending people into fits.  But painting an entire group of people with a bold brush just because you don't agree with them will always get you to about the same place, a dead end.

In my original post I really just felt like expressing some of my views. And as of yet I haven't seen any real good rebuttal to any of them.  The impeachment is still partisan, on both sides (change my mind).  Trump isn't going anywhere until the election (change my mind).  The Democrats handling of Trump, his presidency and the impeachment may actually help Trumps re-election (change my mind).  No matter what happens to Trump he has altered the course of this country through the judiciary (change my mind).

But if you just wanna tell me again how stupid Trump and his voters are don't bother.  Your opinion is tainted and I don't care to hear the rest of your flawed opinions.




You're probably not going to like it here.


--------------------
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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26398979 - 12/24/19 10:43 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that.





maybe it's time for people to quit thinking there is some inherent honor maintained within the act of holding office....?


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26399214 - 12/24/19 02:02 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that.





maybe it's time for people to quit thinking there is some inherent honor maintained within the act of holding office....?



So if you work at burger king and rant about US born black people going back where they came from, yeah you should be fired but the President does it and it's okay? How low have our morals and standards sunk? The US president is a figurehead and scapegoat for the American people it's supposed to be our best representative of America as possible.

This isn't just about morals though, the power the president does have is being used recklessly. We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had. He said Kim didn't know about Otto Warmbier which is obvious bullshit, he's said the Kim loves his people and just inherited a tough job and suggested that south Korea and us should stop military protection exercises that keeps NK from starting a nuke war.

That's just breaking down one destructive thing he's done because he's in over his head. There's many more equally egregious things he's done but it's a great example of how short and narrow sighted trump can be. He was just thinking " I'm going to be a hero/legend if I make peace with North Korea " So he did it as a PR stunt but now they really have been testing nukes left and right and are constantly making threats as well as providing them propaganda footage of trump saying nice things about Kim.


--------------------
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ShLong
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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26399234 - 12/24/19 02:17 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Trump is a troll and entertainer, and apparently that's what his supporters want and enjoy. People are pissed off with the current system so they like it when someone like Trump comes along and pisses all over it. 

Trump knew people would embrace his brutal honesty and trolling, he's a master of marketing himself. You can bitch about it all you want, but it looks like he's going to serve 2 terms.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26399249 - 12/24/19 02:24 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that.





maybe it's time for people to quit thinking there is some inherent honor maintained within the act of holding office....?



So if you work at burger king and rant about US born black people going back where they came from, yeah you should be fired but the President does it and it's okay? How low have our morals and standards sunk? The US president is a figurehead and scapegoat for the American people it's supposed to be our best representative of America as possible.

This isn't just about morals though, the power the president does have is being used recklessly. We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had. He said Kim didn't know about Otto Warmbier which is obvious bullshit, he's said the Kim loves his people and just inherited a tough job and suggested that south Korea and us should stop military protection exercises that keeps NK from starting a nuke war.

That's just breaking down one destructive thing he's done because he's in over his head. There's many more equally egregious things he's done but it's a great example of how short and narrow sighted trump can be. He was just thinking " I'm going to be a hero/legend if I make peace with North Korea " So he did it as a PR stunt but now they really have been testing nukes left and right and are constantly making threats as well as providing them propaganda footage of trump saying nice things about Kim.






i have no idea where you came up with that scenario in relation to my post.  i'm simply stating that maybe we shouldn't just give someone honor/respect for the position they hold, as opposed to their actions.


kind of like respect.  respect isn't deserved, it's earned.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman]
    #26399271 - 12/24/19 02:45 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had.



What does that mean?  Please list specifics if you have them, but here's what I read:

Trump proves critics wrong as he advances his North Korea policy with Kim meeting
Quote:

North Korea has not tested a nuclear device since September 2017.  And aside from a few short-range missiles that the North tested in anger over the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, there have been no North Korean missile launches since November 2017.

Trump believes the Vietnam summit was a partial success, since it allowed him to make clear to Kim the main requirement for an acceptable agreement: complete denuclearization of the North.

Unlike Trump’s critics who predicted that North Korea would never resume talks with the U.S. after the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, the president always believed the talks would resume.



Trump is heavily criticized for visiting North Korea and talking to Kim Jong Un, but I've always believed that talking is better than threats.

Again, I'm not too heavily invested in my position above, I'm just writing what I read in a quick search.  Maybe you can provide something more substantive?


--------------------
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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26399326 - 12/24/19 03:35 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)



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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26399401 - 12/24/19 04:29 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You're probably not going to like it here.



Actually, after my last comment things shaped up nicely in this thread and theres been some good posts.  I don't mind people expressing their feelings about anything or anyone, just provide some reasonable commentary as to while you feel that way and share a well thought out opinion in the process.  It does descend into name calling around here a lot of the time though.

Does anyone think there is evidence to convict Trump of impeachable offenses?  Real evidence, not just opinion based hearsay and coincidence?  Personally I don't think the evidence is there.  I do think he has done plenty of things that do not rise to the level of the office.  In fact most of what he says and does is pretty facepalm worthy.  But impeachement should be a pretty high bar IMO.  Of course even if there is evidence he will never be removed in a republican senate.

I really think Democrats got him elected in 2016.  I think anyone else would have beat Trump.  Hillary was damaged goods and the anti-Hillary vote put him over the top.  It would be so easy to defeat him in 2020 if they just sat back and rolled their eyes at him daily.  I just hope the Democrats don't manage to elect him again because I don't know if I can take 4 more years of people bitching about him.  And God forbid he get another Supreme Court nomination.  The last one was ugly enough, I don't want to go through another confirmation process like that!


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26399443 - 12/24/19 04:56 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had.



What does that mean?  Please list specifics if you have them, but here's what I read:

Trump proves critics wrong as he advances his North Korea policy with Kim meeting
Quote:

North Korea has not tested a nuclear device since September 2017.  And aside from a few short-range missiles that the North tested in anger over the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, there have been no North Korean missile launches since November 2017.

Trump believes the Vietnam summit was a partial success, since it allowed him to make clear to Kim the main requirement for an acceptable agreement: complete denuclearization of the North.

Unlike Trump’s critics who predicted that North Korea would never resume talks with the U.S. after the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, the president always believed the talks would resume.



Trump is heavily criticized for visiting North Korea and talking to Kim Jong Un, but I've always believed that talking is better than threats.

Again, I'm not too heavily invested in my position above, I'm just writing what I read in a quick search.  Maybe you can provide something more substantive?





Trump also threatened to "totally destroy" North Korea and regularly calls North Korea's leader "Rocket Man." I'm not sure his form of talking is all that great. That said, i don't think you believe he's doing all that great of a job in NK either, but to your credit, Trump has sort of tried.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399446 - 12/24/19 04:57 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You're probably not going to like it here.



Actually, after my last comment things shaped up nicely in this thread and theres been some good posts.  I don't mind people expressing their feelings about anything or anyone, just provide some reasonable commentary as to while you feel that way and share a well thought out opinion in the process.  It does descend into name calling around here a lot of the time though.

Does anyone think there is evidence to convict Trump of impeachable offenses?  Real evidence, not just opinion based hearsay and coincidence?  Personally I don't think the evidence is there.  I do think he has done plenty of things that do not rise to the level of the office.  In fact most of what he says and does is pretty facepalm worthy.  But impeachement should be a pretty high bar IMO.  Of course even if there is evidence he will never be removed in a republican senate.

I really think Democrats got him elected in 2016.  I think anyone else would have beat Trump.  Hillary was damaged goods and the anti-Hillary vote put him over the top.  It would be so easy to defeat him in 2020 if they just sat back and rolled their eyes at him daily.  I just hope the Democrats don't manage to elect him again because I don't know if I can take 4 more years of people bitching about him.  And God forbid he get another Supreme Court nomination.  The last one was ugly enough, I don't want to go through another confirmation process like that!




Trump won't be impeached and the evidence doesn't matter because there won't be a real trial.

You're correct, the Dem's fucked up 2016. Don't forget, Hillary got more votes, despite her being a shit candidate.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera]
    #26399478 - 12/24/19 05:27 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Trump also threatened to "totally destroy" North Korea and regularly calls North Korea's leader "Rocket Man."



Maybe that strategy worked, given North Korea stopped their nuclear testing?  :shrug:

Quote:

christopera said:
I'm not sure his form of talking is all that great. That said, i don't think you believe he's doing all that great of a job in NK either, but to your credit, Trump has sort of tried.



Again, I don't know what that means.  Why do you feel he has not done a great job, especially in comparison to past presidents?

If you list the reasons, I'll probably agree, but no one's been providing any evidence for some strange reason.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26399712 - 12/24/19 09:26 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You're probably not going to like it here.



Actually, after my last comment things shaped up nicely in this thread and theres been some good posts.  I don't mind people expressing their feelings about anything or anyone, just provide some reasonable commentary as to while you feel that way and share a well thought out opinion in the process.  It does descend into name calling around here a lot of the time though.

Does anyone think there is evidence to convict Trump of impeachable offenses?  Real evidence, not just opinion based hearsay and coincidence?  Personally I don't think the evidence is there.  I do think he has done plenty of things that do not rise to the level of the office.  In fact most of what he says and does is pretty facepalm worthy.  But impeachement should be a pretty high bar IMO.  Of course even if there is evidence he will never be removed in a republican senate.

I really think Democrats got him elected in 2016.  I think anyone else would have beat Trump.  Hillary was damaged goods and the anti-Hillary vote put him over the top.  It would be so easy to defeat him in 2020 if they just sat back and rolled their eyes at him daily.  I just hope the Democrats don't manage to elect him again because I don't know if I can take 4 more years of people bitching about him.  And God forbid he get another Supreme Court nomination.  The last one was ugly enough, I don't want to go through another confirmation process like that!




Trump won't be impeached and the evidence doesn't matter because there won't be a real trial.

You're correct, the Dem's fucked up 2016. Don't forget, Hillary got more votes, despite her being a shit candidate.





Hillary got more popular votes, not electoral votes.  The popular vote doesn't mean a damn thing when the people casting the electorate vote are able to go against the will of the people and only pay a small fine for it.  Electoral votes don't have to correspond to popular vote, and they didn't in 2016.

If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26399740 - 12/24/19 09:59 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.



Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.  Its not a perfect system, but at least it forces the campaigns to try to make an effort across the country.

Trump is fresh on everyones mind, but remember, George Bush also lost the popular vote to Gore in 2000. The absence of an electoral college would have made drastic changes in the last 2 decades of US politics.  Its also why I only hear Democrats talk about abolishing the electoral college.


--------------------
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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399748 - 12/24/19 10:09 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.



Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.  Its not a perfect system, but at least it forces the campaigns to try to make an effort across the country.

Trump is fresh on everyones mind, but remember, George Bush also lost the popular vote to Gore in 2000. The absence of an electoral college would have made drastic changes in the last 2 decades of US politics.  Its also why I only hear Democrats talk about abolishing the electoral college.






fair.  then the other option would be that the electoral college can't sway from the popular vote of the districts they represent.  that would also solve the problem, presumably.


it does seem, though, that any solid mathematician should be able to come up with a formula/algorithm that weights the votes of the larger states based on population to be equal with the votes of the less populated states


Edited by Tulipslave (12/24/19 10:37 PM)


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26399759 - 12/24/19 10:20 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.



Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.  Its not a perfect system, but at least it forces the campaigns to try to make an effort across the country.

Trump is fresh on everyones mind, but remember, George Bush also lost the popular vote to Gore in 2000. The absence of an electoral college would have made drastic changes in the last 2 decades of US politics.  Its also why I only hear Democrats talk about abolishing the electoral college.






fair.  then the other option would be that the electoral college can't sway from the popular vote of the districts they represent.  that would also solve the problem, presumably.


it does seem, though, that any solid mathematician should be able to come up with a formula/logarithm that weights the votes of the larger states based on population to be equal with the votes of the less populated states



I agree that the votes of the electoral college should not be able to sway from the votes of the districts they represent.  But that hasn't been a factor in changing an outcome in a presidential race so its a moot point up to now.  And if you designed some really complicated algorithm to make it fair it would just upset people who couldn't understand it and then they would really start to dispute the outcomes.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman] * 1
    #26399839 - 12/25/19 12:05 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I do not claim there is no bias, I claim more so that Trump deserves the extra "bias" he gets.

Anyone who attempts to say they are objective is ridiculous. Everyone had a bias. And in these situations I have no reason to act like Trump hasn't earned most of his criticism.


We have a president who has said wind mills cause cancer.

What I truly hate is thus ridiculous attempt to defend trump because you don't want to be too left or don't want to be seen as a "never-trumpet"

The guy I'd a fuckin idiot and a liar. Anyone who is afraid to call someone an idiot who thinks we should try to get "clean coal"(a basic google search will tell you why coal isn't really economical) or that wind mills cause cancer is clearly not out to call a spade a spade. Obviously your goal is more to appear unbiased, which is impossible.

Please, find me something of equivalent stupidity that another president said?


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399846 - 12/25/19 12:12 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

As bill Maher said, you can be really stupid and also be really good at fooling people. Hitler - was he stupid? Is it stupid to he a white supremacist? Of course it is.

Wind mills cause cancer.. Is that a stupid statement? No its a stupid thought to even consider.


You guys act as if its noble to reserve judgement and no call Trump a fucking idiotic, even though he does an incredible amount of idiotic things. That's not noble.. And no, Trump is far dumber than Bush by a long shot. I got nothing against Bush specifically.

I'm just so tired of Trump playing the media and playing people to act like you're biased and have poor judgement to call this guy an idiot.


Edit; in the effort of real conversation, what proof would be sufficient for you? Seems to me that multiple witness corroboration of a story has somehow been relegated to "hearsay". My favorite part of these conversations is how this conversation and perspective never factors in the obstruction of justice of trump. Like an accounting refusing access to his books and then the defense attorney keeps saying "but is there is ANY PROOF? All we have I hearsay"


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Edited by metalfaith (12/25/19 12:28 AM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399922 - 12/25/19 01:49 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.



Instead, now they ignore the most populated places like California, because they know we'll vote Dem.  That sucks too.

Quote:

metalfaith said:
You guys act as if its noble to reserve judgement and no call Trump a fucking idiotic, even though he does an incredible amount of idiotic things.



I think it's noble to not call something idiotic when it's not.

I agree Trump does a lot of idiotic things, but that doesn't give me the right to pretend everything he does is stupid.


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/25/19 12:18 PM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400193 - 12/25/19 08:19 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Second quote above is not mine, but ok.

The electoral college isn't perfect, but better than the alternative IMO. And I don't see campaigns ignoring places like California and New York even though the outcome is pretty much a Democratic lock.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: metalfaith] * 2
    #26400205 - 12/25/19 08:33 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
I do not claim there is no bias, I claim more so that Trump deserves the extra "bias" he gets.

Anyone who attempts to say they are objective is ridiculous. Everyone had a bias. And in these situations I have no reason to act like Trump hasn't earned most of his criticism.


We have a president who has said wind mills cause cancer.

What I truly hate is thus ridiculous attempt to defend trump because you don't want to be too left or don't want to be seen as a "never-trumpet"

The guy I'd a fuckin idiot and a liar. Anyone who is afraid to call someone an idiot who thinks we should try to get "clean coal"(a basic google search will tell you why coal isn't really economical) or that wind mills cause cancer is clearly not out to call a spade a spade. Obviously your goal is more to appear unbiased, which is impossible.

Please, find me something of equivalent stupidity that another president said?



:thumbup:
Much better to explain your reasoning instead of just saying "the guy is a fucking stupid idiot".  I can see why anyone thinks Trump is an idiot.  And theres good reason for it.  He certainly says a lot of things that just make us all shake our heads in disbelief.  Very little of what he does and says rise to the level of Presidential behavior.  But I still maintain the hes not a stupid man.  Acting like an idiot and being stupid are 2 different things.  And I think Trump says things all the time just to tweak people.  I don't even think he believes half of the shit that comes out of his own mouth, he just says it to get a rise out of people.  And it works.  Kinda sad to have a guy like that in such a position.  But I still maintain that Democrats have themselves to blame for Trump just as much as the Republicans who voted for him.

I kinda see Trump like America sticking its middle finger up to the political class in D.C.  The Republicans tried to cram another retread at the party during the primaries in 2016 and the people said "fuck you, take this instead".  Then the Democrats pushed aside the chance for something new and different and forced us to take Hillary into the general election. Again America said "fuck you, lets see how you like this!"  So Trump is basically America telling Washington DC to fuck  off.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 2
    #26400219 - 12/25/19 08:45 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Trump is the master troll, he puts out the bait and the liberals bite it every time. It's too easy for him to trigger people today and that's why he doesn't stop.


Edited by qman (12/25/19 08:46 AM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman]
    #26400230 - 12/25/19 08:55 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Trump is the master troll, he puts out the bait and the liberals bite it every time. It's too easy for him to trigger people today and that's why he doesn't stop.






it's all fun and games until the CIA sends a magic bullet your way


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26400231 - 12/25/19 08:56 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

The nuclear talks have stalled, and NK has said multiple times that Trump isn't offering them anything worth making a deal for.

They "stopped" their nuclear tests, but a two year gap in testing for them isn't all that significant. See link below. They've certainly gone longer between tests, and by that metric, Obama knocked it out of the park (2 nuclear tests in 8 years, while Trump has 3 in just 3 years). So again, Trump says a lot, but is he really performing?

Meanwhile, NK continues launching missiles. NK has given the U.S. until the end of the year to make a deal, which is laughable, because we should hold all the power here. Especially with the greatest negotiator of all time at the helm.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/30/north-korea-fires-more-projectiles-trump-kim-talks-stall/1871957001/

All of that said, I like this plan to preserve native languages. It's too little too late, but he's the guy that signed the bill, and for that he deserves some credit.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26400390 - 12/25/19 11:35 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Trump really is not that bad compared what bush put us threw. Yes he can be a moron on some things that i dont agree with. But im not gonna throw a fit if some one likes or dislikes trump.

I think some people need to chill out an stopp being triggered so easily. Hes shown how broken our political system is how far people will go to get some one out of office because they dislike him an he wont bow down to them like Obama did.

This is why this is going down trump is shaking things up for the good i think.  Some will disagree but hes showing the other people in the system with there true colors an making false accusations on him.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26400432 - 12/25/19 12:27 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Second quote above is not mine, but ok.



Sorry about that.  Fixed.  :peace:


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Mach z 800] * 1
    #26400440 - 12/25/19 12:32 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Mach z 800 said:
Trump really is not that bad compared what bush put us threw. Yes he can be a moron on some things that i dont agree with. But im not gonna throw a fit if some one likes or dislikes trump.

I think some people need to chill out an stopp being triggered so easily. Hes shown how broken our political system is how far people will go to get some one out of office because they dislike him an he wont bow down to them like Obama did.

This is why this is going down trump is shaking things up for the good i think.  Some will disagree but hes showing the other people in the system with there true colors an making false accusations on him.





Your post made me laugh way more than it should have and likely way, way more than you intended, but I thank you for that.

Merry xmas & have a good one.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26400450 - 12/25/19 12:39 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
The electoral college isn't perfect, but better than the alternative IMO.



The alternative? I didnt know there were only two options for a political process.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26400462 - 12/25/19 12:56 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I first heard about the campaign for this "National Popular Vote Agreement" about six years ago.

Quote:


The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact will guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes across all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The Compact ensures that every vote, in every state, will matter in every presidential election. The Compact is a state-based approach that preserves the Electoral College, state control of elections, and the power of the states to control how the President is elected.

The National Popular Vote bill has been enacted by 16 jurisdictions possessing 196 electoral votes, including 4 small states (DE, HI, RI, VT), 8 medium-sized states (CO, CT, MD, MA, NJ, NM, OR, WA), 3 big states (CA, IL, NY), and the District of Columbia. The bill will take effect when enacted by states with 74 more electoral votes.  The bill has passed at least one chamber in 8 additional states with 75 more electoral votes (AR, AZ, ME, MI, MN, NC, NV, OK).  A total of 3,408 state legislators from all 50 states have endorsed it.

The shortcomings of the current system of electing the President stem from “winner-take-all” laws that have been enacted by state legislatures in 48 states. These laws award all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate receiving the most popular votes in each state.

Because of these state winner-take-all statutes, presidential candidates have no reason to pay attention to the issues of concern to voters in states where the statewide outcome is a foregone conclusion. In 2012, as shown on the map, all of the  253 general-election campaign events were in just 12 states, and two-thirds were in just 4 states (Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and Iowa). Thirty-eight states were completely ignored.

____

State winner-take-all statutes adversely affect governance. “Battleground” states receive 7% more federal grants than “spectator” states, twice as many presidential disaster declarations, more Superfund enforcement exemptions, and more No Child Left Behind law exemptions.


*more at the link*





ETA:  I'm not saying this proposed system is the best option, but I think most can agree that there are several aspects--maybe most aspects--of our current system that are outdated and in need of revision.


Edited by relic (12/25/19 12:59 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera]
    #26400486 - 12/25/19 01:24 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
The nuclear talks have stalled, and NK has said multiple times that Trump isn't offering them anything worth making a deal for.

They "stopped" their nuclear tests, but a two year gap in testing for them isn't all that significant. See link below. They've certainly gone longer between tests, and by that metric, Obama knocked it out of the park (2 nuclear tests in 8 years, while Trump has 3 in just 3 years). So again, Trump says a lot, but is he really performing?

Meanwhile, NK continues launching missiles. NK has given the U.S. until the end of the year to make a deal, which is laughable, because we should hold all the power here. Especially with the greatest negotiator of all time at the helm.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/30/north-korea-fires-more-projectiles-trump-kim-talks-stall/1871957001/

All of that said, I like this plan to preserve native languages. It's too little too late, but he's the guy that signed the bill, and for that he deserves some credit.



Thanks.  :thumbup:

From what I've been able to find (there's not much out there), North Korea was willing to denuclearize in exchange for a lifting of sanctions, but the US has since demanded North Korea denuclearize because we pound our chest at them.  I haven't yet been able to determine if that was Trump's decision or if that's how Trump is being told it needs to be done.

If anyone can find a good article about this, that'd be great.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26400501 - 12/25/19 01:38 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

...and I just found this on Wikipedia:
Quote:

Immediately following the (2018 North Korea–United States Singapore) summit, President Trump announced that the U.S. military would discontinue "provocative" joint military exercises with South Korea, and stated that he wished to bring the U.S. soldiers back home at some point, but he reinforced that it was not part of the Singapore equation.  On August 1, 2018, the U.S. Senate passed the military budget bill for 2019, forbidding funding the reduction of active USFK personnel below 22,000



So Congress is fighting Trump on this.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400508 - 12/25/19 01:44 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I honestly hope he wins again so I can watch you people cry about it lol.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400615 - 12/25/19 04:00 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

There are many countries, particularly in the Middle East, where I favor reducing or eliminating our troops. I don't want troop reductions in South Korea, and I think the people  want us there, which is a stark contrast with the Middle East. The living conditions for troops in South Korea have got to be very good comparatively.

I don't know any arguments for leaving South Korea except that's what the North Korean dictator wants. So unless he's willing to eliminate all nuclear weapons, why should we? I could see giving North Korea economic aid under those conditions.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Shenmue]
    #26400618 - 12/25/19 04:04 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

We definitely care more about the nukes than the torture kwanliso; they have been called worse than Nazi death camps.


--------------------
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26400658 - 12/25/19 04:39 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
There are many countries, particularly in the Middle East, where I favor reducing or eliminating our troops. I don't want troop reductions in South Korea, and I think the people  want us there...



Perhaps, but only 4 percent want to pay for US support.
Quote:

The data showed that if no agreement could be reached between Washington and Seoul on the costs of hosting the troops, a slight majority of South Koreans prefer reducing the number of U.S. troops in South Korea, while about 1 in 10 said that all U.S. troops should be removed.






Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I don't know any arguments for leaving South Korea except that's what the North Korean dictator wants. So unless he's willing to eliminate all nuclear weapons, why should we? I could see giving North Korea economic aid under those conditions.



One argument is that it would save the United States a shit ton of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

And it would probably make North Korea more willing to give up their nukes.  :shrug:


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/25/19 04:52 PM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26400904 - 12/25/19 07:46 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

In 2010 we had troops in 150 countries. In 2017 it was 177.

I know we have a lot of troops in South Korea, but it should be one of the last places we pull them from.

I don't think we should pull the troops and then wait to see if that induces Kim to denuclearize.

I think this a very risky maneuver primarily motivated by Trump wanting to be able to say he accomplished something.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26400963 - 12/25/19 08:37 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
In 2010 we had troops in 150 countries. In 2017 it was 177.



As you know, the relevant years are 2016 and 2019.  In Dec 2016 we had troops in 177 countries.  In Sep 2019 it was down to 169 (source).

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I know we have a lot of troops in South Korea, but it should be one of the last places we pull them from.

I don't think we should pull the troops and then wait to see if that induces Kim to denuclearize.

I think this a very risky maneuver primarily motivated by Trump wanting to be able to say he accomplished something.



What's the risk?  South Korea has a sizable military and a more powerful Air Force and Navy.  We're the ones who are famous for breaking our promises.  :shrug:

The potential gain would be huge.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400986 - 12/25/19 09:17 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

North Korea isn’t giving up its nukes :laugh2:


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26400987 - 12/25/19 09:18 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

We have far more troops in Germany and Japan. So what's the risk there and the expense? To me talking about pulling the troops out of South Korea is strictly a Trump vanity project.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26400989 - 12/25/19 09:22 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
North Korea isn’t giving up its nukes :laugh2:



Of course they're not if they get nothing in return.  That should go without saying.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26400991 - 12/25/19 09:23 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
We have far more troops in Germany and Japan. So what's the risk there and the expense?



Believe me, I'm all for troop removal.  :thumbup:


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26402171 - 12/26/19 09:01 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

I think if we pull out of Korea (or Japan and Germany) it will cause massive nuclear proliferation. The agreements we made with these countries to not develop nukes is contingent on our being there.

It would be great for many reasons to avoid these foreign entanglements, but we are stuck in a "you broke it, you pay for it" situation. It would cause a power vacuum in Asia and Europe that China and Russia would quickly fill. I realize this is neoliberal reasoning, but I don't see a solution that doesn't involve these consequences.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26402211 - 12/26/19 09:45 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
It would be great for many reasons to avoid these foreign entanglements, but we are stuck in a "you broke it, you pay for it" situation. It would cause a power vacuum in Asia and Europe that China and Russia would quickly fill. I realize this is neoliberal reasoning, but I don't see a solution that doesn't involve these consequences.



In 1994 with Clinton's approval, Carter struck a deal with North Korea where they agreed to freeze their nuclear program in exchange for some fuel oil and two nuclear reactors.  A win-win outcome for both sides.

But in 2002, Bush declared North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil", ending shipments of fuel and cancelling the construction of the promised nuclear reactors.  Any moron could have predicted the outcome, but the Bush administration didn't. 

North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, expelled atomic energy agency inspectors, resumed processing fuel rods and began redeveloping nuclear explosive devices.  And four years later, BOOM... 

Maybe we can try something like that again, or maybe North Korea learned it can't trust the United States.  :shrug:


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26402232 - 12/26/19 10:07 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
It would be great for many reasons to avoid these foreign entanglements, but we are stuck in a "you broke it, you pay for it" situation. It would cause a power vacuum in Asia and Europe that China and Russia would quickly fill. I realize this is neoliberal reasoning, but I don't see a solution that doesn't involve these consequences.



In 1994 with Clinton's approval, Carter struck a deal with North Korea where they agreed to freeze their nuclear program in exchange for some fuel oil and two nuclear reactors.  A win-win outcome for both sides.

But in 2002, Bush declared North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil", ending shipments of fuel and cancelling the construction of the promised nuclear reactors.  Any moron could have predicted the outcome, but the Bush administration didn't. 

North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, expelled atomic energy agency inspectors, resumed processing fuel rods and began redeveloping nuclear explosive devices.  And four years later, BOOM... 

Maybe we can try something like that again, or maybe North Korea learned it can't trust the United States.  :shrug:





and Kim Jong Un has also had the pleasure of seeing what happened to Muammar al-Gaddafi and is happening to Maduro


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26402630 - 12/27/19 08:01 AM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Responding respectfully to the two posters above me. Yes the U.S. can't be trusted. You will get no argument from me. What I'm saying is South Korea's nuclear weapons program starts the second we talk about pulling U.S. troops. Hypothetically, Germany and Japan would do the same thing. I know we wrote their constitutions, but that is all moot if we pull our troops. If Pakistan and North Korea can develop nuclear missiles, then how long would it take those three super brain power countries?


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26402940 - 12/27/19 11:53 AM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
What I'm saying is South Korea's nuclear weapons program starts the second we talk about pulling U.S. troops.



I think you meant North Korea, right?

You might be right, you might be wrong.  But I'm fairly confident they won't denuclearize because of US chest pounding, as we're now hoping.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #26402947 - 12/27/19 11:59 AM (6 months, 11 days ago)

No he’s saying without the US supporting the defense of South Korea, South Korea will develop their own nukes to counter North Koreas


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26402958 - 12/27/19 12:13 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
No he’s saying without the US supporting the defense of South Korea, South Korea will develop their own nukes to counter North Koreas



Or South Korea would focus on peace and reunification, something Moon was elected to do, since the United States would no longer get in the way by attempting to keep our military industrial complex healthy with plenty of enemies.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26402968 - 12/27/19 12:24 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

I  have to imagine the only way Korea could reunite is if the Kim dynasty gave up control , that isn’t going to happen though and South Korea isn’t going to accept stalanistic regime control so it seems like an unrealistic goal to say the least .


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26402972 - 12/27/19 12:26 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Imagine if they went to an open border system, NK would be vacant in weeks.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera]
    #26403000 - 12/27/19 12:55 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Ya what’s supposed to happen when all the people in the north realize they are free and start demanding economic equality on par with those in the south ?  Another war probably .


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #26403017 - 12/27/19 01:03 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Imagine what would happen if the US removed all sanctions on North Korea and allowed the people there a chance at a better life.  But the US will NEVER give a communist country a chance to succeed.  That's why the restrictions with Cuba were never removed under Obama.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26403084 - 12/27/19 02:15 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Imagine what would happen if the US removed all sanctions on North Korea and allowed the people there a chance at a better life.  But the US will NEVER give a communist country a chance to succeed.  That's why the restrictions with Cuba were never removed under Obama.




Sanctions are not the reason North Korea the worst place on earth.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods] * 1
    #26403086 - 12/27/19 02:17 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Sanctions probably aren’t helping, eh?

What exactly do we gain by sanctioning NK?


--------------------
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Edited by christopera (12/27/19 02:18 PM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera]
    #26403110 - 12/27/19 02:38 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Leverage


--------------------


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26403152 - 12/27/19 03:26 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Imagine what would happen if the US removed all sanctions on North Korea and allowed the people there a chance at a better life




  Imagine what would happen if the North Koreans rose up and killed the entire Kim family and decided they preferred freedom and democracy to a dictatorship . Imagine if Kim just stepped aside and allowed his people to have a better life .
  We can’t help the people of North Korea Or South Korea from a position of weakness , and that’s what you want .


--------------------



Edited by Psilynut2 (12/27/19 03:26 PM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26403195 - 12/27/19 04:05 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Imagine what would happen if the US removed all sanctions on North Korea and allowed the people there a chance at a better life.  But the US will NEVER give a communist country a chance to succeed.  That's why the restrictions with Cuba were never removed under Obama.




Sanctions are not the reason North Korea the worst place on earth.






South Korea was just as bad as North Korea prior to and during the Korean War.  I've seen photos of the conditions people lived in from my grandfather's tour.  South Koreans would collect (as in shovel and transport) human manure for their fields (nightsoil) because there was no other way to fertilize their fields, the few that even had land.  The "houses" ranged from scrap metal pieces tied together to huts.

Then the USA started giving South Korea resources.





Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Imagine what would happen if the North Koreans rose up and killed the entire Kim family





What's stopping them from doing so?


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26403698 - 12/27/19 09:14 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Mass Stockholm Syndrome , obviously .


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26403730 - 12/27/19 09:35 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Imagine what would happen if the US removed all sanctions on North Korea and allowed the people there a chance at a better life.  But the US will NEVER give a communist country a chance to succeed.  That's why the restrictions with Cuba were never removed under Obama.



Sanctions are not the reason North Korea the worst place on earth.



Sanctions probably aren’t helping, eh?

What exactly do we gain by sanctioning NK?



Leverage



Why do you think the sanctions give us any leverage?  Why would N. Korea care?

The original question was to you koods, so feel free to answer as well.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26403736 - 12/27/19 09:37 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Imagine what would happen if the North Koreans rose up and killed the entire Kim family



What's stopping them from doing so?



Mass Stockholm Syndrome , obviously .



Maybe they're unhappy with the US?  I'm sure the N. Korean people are not thrilled with our sanctions either.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26403884 - 12/28/19 12:27 AM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
It would be great for many reasons to avoid these foreign entanglements, but we are stuck in a "you broke it, you pay for it" situation. It would cause a power vacuum in Asia and Europe that China and Russia would quickly fill. I realize this is neoliberal reasoning, but I don't see a solution that doesn't involve these consequences.



In 1994 with Clinton's approval, Carter struck a deal with North Korea where they agreed to freeze their nuclear program in exchange for some fuel oil and two nuclear reactors.  A win-win outcome for both sides.

But in 2002, Bush declared North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil", ending shipments of fuel and cancelling the construction of the promised nuclear reactors.  Any moron could have predicted the outcome, but the Bush administration didn't. 

North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, expelled atomic energy agency inspectors, resumed processing fuel rods and began redeveloping nuclear explosive devices.  And four years later, BOOM... 

Maybe we can try something like that again, or maybe North Korea learned it can't trust the United States.  :shrug:




That's good info man i didnt know that but that's why NK is going batshit right now because we aren't and really can't offer them anything at this point so the talks have gone nowhere quick. The only thing we can take as an offer is total denuclearization which for the NKs will be a cold day in he'll before they do that. The North Koreans have only offered chicken shit things like a few hundred US soldiers ashes that have been withheld since the war and there's thousands more they aren't offering. Past that they want a complete demilitarized US military and South Korean Miltary which is virtually impossible and it would be the dumbest deal in political history. They can't offer us anything right now and we can't  offer them anything in that situation you don't open trade negotiations lest you be ready for war.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26403928 - 12/28/19 01:28 AM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
That's good info man i didnt know that...



Thanks man.  :thumbup:

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
...but that's why NK is going batshit right now because we aren't and really can't offer them anything at this point so the talks have gone nowhere quick.



Maybe.

"Trump, on the advice of John Bolton, his national security adviser at the time, told Kim he must accede to all U.S. demands before Washington would negotiate any concessions of its own. The Reuters report demonstrated that Bolton’s advice to Trump — delivered just as the president sat down with Kim, so leaving him little time to consider it — was intended to precipitate precisely the sudden breach between the two leaders that then took place."

That was a retarded offer, likely intended to invoke bad feelings.  Since Trump made the offer, I don't know if he'll back down now, but I wouldn't have accepted Bolton's offer either if were Kim Jong Un. 

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
The only thing we can take as an offer is total denuclearization which for the NKs will be a cold day in he'll before they do that. The North Koreans have only offered chicken shit things like a few hundred US soldiers ashes that have been withheld since the war and there's thousands more they aren't offering.



I think the main thing we want is denuclearization.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Past that they want a complete demilitarized US military and South Korean Miltary which is virtually impossible and it would be the dumbest deal in political history.



I haven't heard that before.  Source, or make believe?


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26404136 - 12/28/19 06:25 AM (6 months, 10 days ago)

There is no way they will denuclearize, unless we literally aid them into a middle class population, which will never happen since we don't even have a middle class population. Trump bragged his way into this situation. He's still waiting for someone to pin the Nobel Peace Prize around his neck. His speech at the United Nations was the shit show of all shit shows. There is no scenario now where this will get better.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26404207 - 12/28/19 07:48 AM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Of course not. Anyone that thinks that is a realistic goal is an idiot.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26404469 - 12/28/19 10:48 AM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Bolton (intentionally) fucked it up.  But as I've shown before, many on the left now like the guy since he opposes Trump.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26404619 - 12/28/19 12:31 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

I don’t think anyone on the left likes Bolton


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26404655 - 12/28/19 12:52 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I don’t think anyone on the left likes Bolton



I showed how Rachel Maddow defended Bolton  here.

Will you finally admit she's establishment?


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26404719 - 12/28/19 01:26 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I don’t think anyone on the left likes Bolton



I showed how Rachel Maddow defended Bolton  here.

Will you finally admit she's establishment?



You defend trump, I dont think that means you like him. The same way I don't think qman necessarily likes Trump...you give credit where it's due, correct?
And for the record: fuck Rachel Maddow.


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Edited by Sulfurshelfsean (12/28/19 01:26 PM)


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26404738 - 12/28/19 01:37 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I don’t think anyone on the left likes Bolton



No one did, until speculation came out that might testify against Trump.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #26405007 - 12/28/19 04:21 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
You defend trump, I dont think that means you like him. The same way I don't think qman necessarily likes Trump...you give credit where it's due, correct?
And for the record: fuck Rachel Maddow.



Sure, I'd credit Bolton if he deserved it, but I don't think he's deserving of credit for being a war hawk.  But Maddow liked his hawkishness, because it was against Trump.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26405011 - 12/28/19 04:24 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
You defend trump, I dont think that means you like him. The same way I don't think qman necessarily likes Trump...you give credit where it's due, correct?
And for the record: fuck Rachel Maddow.



Sure, I'd credit Bolton if he deserved it, but I don't think he's deserving of credit for being a war hawk.  But Maddow liked his hawkishness, because it was against Trump.



Ah true I kind of forgot about that. Shouldve clicked your link to see what you were talking about specifically.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #26405304 - 12/28/19 07:46 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Bolton is scum.  That's why Trumpy hired him in the first place


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #26405317 - 12/28/19 07:56 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

The paradox of the "troop withdrawals" remain.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineDJ_avocado
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26405675 - 12/29/19 04:24 AM (6 months, 9 days ago)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-transcript-read-ukraine-president-phone-call-transcript-pdf-released-today-joe-biden-crowdstrike-2019-09-25/

From what I understand about the impeachment, a trial is in the future.

Is there evidence that I am missing (other than the Ukraine transcript)? I understand it is not the complete call transcript and there may be a lot of irrelevant stuff PROBABLY cut out of it. Assuming any damning evidence, any relevant information, hasn't been excluded from the transcript what can be used for a conviction?

Is the "whistleblower" person and their testimony especially important?

It seems to me that it must be PROVEN that foreign affairs (sale of military aid) was influenced by Trump's interest in securing a second term. But this seems like a very difficult thing to prove, impossible beyond reason for doubt (as long as the court is concerned).


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: DJ_avocado] * 1
    #26405863 - 12/29/19 08:00 AM (6 months, 9 days ago)

The "court" is the senate.  Beyond a reasonable doubt is not the standard for conviction.  All that is required is for enough senators to think he did it.  Or not.


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