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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman] * 1
    #26399839 - 12/25/19 12:05 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I do not claim there is no bias, I claim more so that Trump deserves the extra "bias" he gets.

Anyone who attempts to say they are objective is ridiculous. Everyone had a bias. And in these situations I have no reason to act like Trump hasn't earned most of his criticism.


We have a president who has said wind mills cause cancer.

What I truly hate is thus ridiculous attempt to defend trump because you don't want to be too left or don't want to be seen as a "never-trumpet"

The guy I'd a fuckin idiot and a liar. Anyone who is afraid to call someone an idiot who thinks we should try to get "clean coal"(a basic google search will tell you why coal isn't really economical) or that wind mills cause cancer is clearly not out to call a spade a spade. Obviously your goal is more to appear unbiased, which is impossible.

Please, find me something of equivalent stupidity that another president said?


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399846 - 12/25/19 12:12 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

As bill Maher said, you can be really stupid and also be really good at fooling people. Hitler - was he stupid? Is it stupid to he a white supremacist? Of course it is.

Wind mills cause cancer.. Is that a stupid statement? No its a stupid thought to even consider.


You guys act as if its noble to reserve judgement and no call Trump a fucking idiotic, even though he does an incredible amount of idiotic things. That's not noble.. And no, Trump is far dumber than Bush by a long shot. I got nothing against Bush specifically.

I'm just so tired of Trump playing the media and playing people to act like you're biased and have poor judgement to call this guy an idiot.


Edit; in the effort of real conversation, what proof would be sufficient for you? Seems to me that multiple witness corroboration of a story has somehow been relegated to "hearsay". My favorite part of these conversations is how this conversation and perspective never factors in the obstruction of justice of trump. Like an accounting refusing access to his books and then the defense attorney keeps saying "but is there is ANY PROOF? All we have I hearsay"


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Edited by metalfaith (12/25/19 12:28 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399922 - 12/25/19 01:49 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.



Instead, now they ignore the most populated places like California, because they know we'll vote Dem.  That sucks too.

Quote:

metalfaith said:
You guys act as if its noble to reserve judgement and no call Trump a fucking idiotic, even though he does an incredible amount of idiotic things.



I think it's noble to not call something idiotic when it's not.

I agree Trump does a lot of idiotic things, but that doesn't give me the right to pretend everything he does is stupid.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/25/19 12:18 PM)


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400193 - 12/25/19 08:19 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Second quote above is not mine, but ok.

The electoral college isn't perfect, but better than the alternative IMO. And I don't see campaigns ignoring places like California and New York even though the outcome is pretty much a Democratic lock.


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You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: metalfaith] * 2
    #26400205 - 12/25/19 08:33 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
I do not claim there is no bias, I claim more so that Trump deserves the extra "bias" he gets.

Anyone who attempts to say they are objective is ridiculous. Everyone had a bias. And in these situations I have no reason to act like Trump hasn't earned most of his criticism.


We have a president who has said wind mills cause cancer.

What I truly hate is thus ridiculous attempt to defend trump because you don't want to be too left or don't want to be seen as a "never-trumpet"

The guy I'd a fuckin idiot and a liar. Anyone who is afraid to call someone an idiot who thinks we should try to get "clean coal"(a basic google search will tell you why coal isn't really economical) or that wind mills cause cancer is clearly not out to call a spade a spade. Obviously your goal is more to appear unbiased, which is impossible.

Please, find me something of equivalent stupidity that another president said?



:thumbup:
Much better to explain your reasoning instead of just saying "the guy is a fucking stupid idiot".  I can see why anyone thinks Trump is an idiot.  And theres good reason for it.  He certainly says a lot of things that just make us all shake our heads in disbelief.  Very little of what he does and says rise to the level of Presidential behavior.  But I still maintain the hes not a stupid man.  Acting like an idiot and being stupid are 2 different things.  And I think Trump says things all the time just to tweak people.  I don't even think he believes half of the shit that comes out of his own mouth, he just says it to get a rise out of people.  And it works.  Kinda sad to have a guy like that in such a position.  But I still maintain that Democrats have themselves to blame for Trump just as much as the Republicans who voted for him.

I kinda see Trump like America sticking its middle finger up to the political class in D.C.  The Republicans tried to cram another retread at the party during the primaries in 2016 and the people said "fuck you, take this instead".  Then the Democrats pushed aside the chance for something new and different and forced us to take Hillary into the general election. Again America said "fuck you, lets see how you like this!"  So Trump is basically America telling Washington DC to fuck  off.


--------------------
You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!


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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 2
    #26400219 - 12/25/19 08:45 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Trump is the master troll, he puts out the bait and the liberals bite it every time. It's too easy for him to trigger people today and that's why he doesn't stop.


Edited by qman (12/25/19 08:46 AM)


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman]
    #26400230 - 12/25/19 08:55 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Trump is the master troll, he puts out the bait and the liberals bite it every time. It's too easy for him to trigger people today and that's why he doesn't stop.






it's all fun and games until the CIA sends a magic bullet your way


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26400231 - 12/25/19 08:56 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

The nuclear talks have stalled, and NK has said multiple times that Trump isn't offering them anything worth making a deal for.

They "stopped" their nuclear tests, but a two year gap in testing for them isn't all that significant. See link below. They've certainly gone longer between tests, and by that metric, Obama knocked it out of the park (2 nuclear tests in 8 years, while Trump has 3 in just 3 years). So again, Trump says a lot, but is he really performing?

Meanwhile, NK continues launching missiles. NK has given the U.S. until the end of the year to make a deal, which is laughable, because we should hold all the power here. Especially with the greatest negotiator of all time at the helm.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/30/north-korea-fires-more-projectiles-trump-kim-talks-stall/1871957001/

All of that said, I like this plan to preserve native languages. It's too little too late, but he's the guy that signed the bill, and for that he deserves some credit.


--------------------
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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26400390 - 12/25/19 11:35 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Trump really is not that bad compared what bush put us threw. Yes he can be a moron on some things that i dont agree with. But im not gonna throw a fit if some one likes or dislikes trump.

I think some people need to chill out an stopp being triggered so easily. Hes shown how broken our political system is how far people will go to get some one out of office because they dislike him an he wont bow down to them like Obama did.

This is why this is going down trump is shaking things up for the good i think.  Some will disagree but hes showing the other people in the system with there true colors an making false accusations on him.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26400432 - 12/25/19 12:27 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Second quote above is not mine, but ok.



Sorry about that.  Fixed.  :peace:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Mach z 800] * 1
    #26400440 - 12/25/19 12:32 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Mach z 800 said:
Trump really is not that bad compared what bush put us threw. Yes he can be a moron on some things that i dont agree with. But im not gonna throw a fit if some one likes or dislikes trump.

I think some people need to chill out an stopp being triggered so easily. Hes shown how broken our political system is how far people will go to get some one out of office because they dislike him an he wont bow down to them like Obama did.

This is why this is going down trump is shaking things up for the good i think.  Some will disagree but hes showing the other people in the system with there true colors an making false accusations on him.





Your post made me laugh way more than it should have and likely way, way more than you intended, but I thank you for that.

Merry xmas & have a good one.


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26400450 - 12/25/19 12:39 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
The electoral college isn't perfect, but better than the alternative IMO.



The alternative? I didnt know there were only two options for a political process.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26400462 - 12/25/19 12:56 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I first heard about the campaign for this "National Popular Vote Agreement" about six years ago.

Quote:


The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact will guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes across all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The Compact ensures that every vote, in every state, will matter in every presidential election. The Compact is a state-based approach that preserves the Electoral College, state control of elections, and the power of the states to control how the President is elected.

The National Popular Vote bill has been enacted by 16 jurisdictions possessing 196 electoral votes, including 4 small states (DE, HI, RI, VT), 8 medium-sized states (CO, CT, MD, MA, NJ, NM, OR, WA), 3 big states (CA, IL, NY), and the District of Columbia. The bill will take effect when enacted by states with 74 more electoral votes.  The bill has passed at least one chamber in 8 additional states with 75 more electoral votes (AR, AZ, ME, MI, MN, NC, NV, OK).  A total of 3,408 state legislators from all 50 states have endorsed it.

The shortcomings of the current system of electing the President stem from “winner-take-all” laws that have been enacted by state legislatures in 48 states. These laws award all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate receiving the most popular votes in each state.

Because of these state winner-take-all statutes, presidential candidates have no reason to pay attention to the issues of concern to voters in states where the statewide outcome is a foregone conclusion. In 2012, as shown on the map, all of the  253 general-election campaign events were in just 12 states, and two-thirds were in just 4 states (Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and Iowa). Thirty-eight states were completely ignored.

____

State winner-take-all statutes adversely affect governance. “Battleground” states receive 7% more federal grants than “spectator” states, twice as many presidential disaster declarations, more Superfund enforcement exemptions, and more No Child Left Behind law exemptions.


*more at the link*





ETA:  I'm not saying this proposed system is the best option, but I think most can agree that there are several aspects--maybe most aspects--of our current system that are outdated and in need of revision.


Edited by relic (12/25/19 12:59 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera]
    #26400486 - 12/25/19 01:24 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
The nuclear talks have stalled, and NK has said multiple times that Trump isn't offering them anything worth making a deal for.

They "stopped" their nuclear tests, but a two year gap in testing for them isn't all that significant. See link below. They've certainly gone longer between tests, and by that metric, Obama knocked it out of the park (2 nuclear tests in 8 years, while Trump has 3 in just 3 years). So again, Trump says a lot, but is he really performing?

Meanwhile, NK continues launching missiles. NK has given the U.S. until the end of the year to make a deal, which is laughable, because we should hold all the power here. Especially with the greatest negotiator of all time at the helm.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/30/north-korea-fires-more-projectiles-trump-kim-talks-stall/1871957001/

All of that said, I like this plan to preserve native languages. It's too little too late, but he's the guy that signed the bill, and for that he deserves some credit.



Thanks.  :thumbup:

From what I've been able to find (there's not much out there), North Korea was willing to denuclearize in exchange for a lifting of sanctions, but the US has since demanded North Korea denuclearize because we pound our chest at them.  I haven't yet been able to determine if that was Trump's decision or if that's how Trump is being told it needs to be done.

If anyone can find a good article about this, that'd be great.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26400501 - 12/25/19 01:38 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

...and I just found this on Wikipedia:
Quote:

Immediately following the (2018 North Korea–United States Singapore) summit, President Trump announced that the U.S. military would discontinue "provocative" joint military exercises with South Korea, and stated that he wished to bring the U.S. soldiers back home at some point, but he reinforced that it was not part of the Singapore equation.  On August 1, 2018, the U.S. Senate passed the military budget bill for 2019, forbidding funding the reduction of active USFK personnel below 22,000



So Congress is fighting Trump on this.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400508 - 12/25/19 01:44 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I honestly hope he wins again so I can watch you people cry about it lol.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26400615 - 12/25/19 04:00 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

There are many countries, particularly in the Middle East, where I favor reducing or eliminating our troops. I don't want troop reductions in South Korea, and I think the people  want us there, which is a stark contrast with the Middle East. The living conditions for troops in South Korea have got to be very good comparatively.

I don't know any arguments for leaving South Korea except that's what the North Korean dictator wants. So unless he's willing to eliminate all nuclear weapons, why should we? I could see giving North Korea economic aid under those conditions.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Shenmue]
    #26400618 - 12/25/19 04:04 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

We definitely care more about the nukes than the torture kwanliso; they have been called worse than Nazi death camps.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26400658 - 12/25/19 04:39 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
There are many countries, particularly in the Middle East, where I favor reducing or eliminating our troops. I don't want troop reductions in South Korea, and I think the people  want us there...



Perhaps, but only 4 percent want to pay for US support.
Quote:

The data showed that if no agreement could be reached between Washington and Seoul on the costs of hosting the troops, a slight majority of South Koreans prefer reducing the number of U.S. troops in South Korea, while about 1 in 10 said that all U.S. troops should be removed.






Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I don't know any arguments for leaving South Korea except that's what the North Korean dictator wants. So unless he's willing to eliminate all nuclear weapons, why should we? I could see giving North Korea economic aid under those conditions.



One argument is that it would save the United States a shit ton of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

And it would probably make North Korea more willing to give up their nukes.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/25/19 04:52 PM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26400904 - 12/25/19 07:46 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

In 2010 we had troops in 150 countries. In 2017 it was 177.

I know we have a lot of troops in South Korea, but it should be one of the last places we pull them from.

I don't think we should pull the troops and then wait to see if that induces Kim to denuclearize.

I think this a very risky maneuver primarily motivated by Trump wanting to be able to say he accomplished something.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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