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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: mycoprog] * 2
    #26398294 - 12/23/19 08:57 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

"Trump is a stupid con-man!  Republicans are brain-dead Morons who vote for anyone with an R in front of their name! Anyone who doesn't agree with my views is a big doo-doo head!"
Blah, Blah, Blah

I get bored with it.  Its the reason I don't often talk politics, especially on the internet where anonymity makes people act more bold (and stupid) than they would in a civilized conversation.  Right now its the folks on the left so worked up about Trump.  A real honest discussion is near impossible.  I kinda feel bad for people who carry so much angst around about a single man. But folks on the right get the same way at times.  I remember the very mention of Obamas name sending people into fits.  But painting an entire group of people with a bold brush just because you don't agree with them will always get you to about the same place, a dead end.

In my original post I really just felt like expressing some of my views. And as of yet I haven't seen any real good rebuttal to any of them.  The impeachment is still partisan, on both sides (change my mind).  Trump isn't going anywhere until the election (change my mind).  The Democrats handling of Trump, his presidency and the impeachment may actually help Trumps re-election (change my mind).  No matter what happens to Trump he has altered the course of this country through the judiciary (change my mind).

But if you just wanna tell me again how stupid Trump and his voters are don't bother.  Your opinion is tainted and I don't care to hear the rest of your flawed opinions.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26398314 - 12/23/19 09:19 PM (6 months, 15 days ago)

So are you going to keep checking back to make sure no one tells you their opinion or are just not going to look ?  I always wonder what people do after they tell other people to stop talking to them online .


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Psilynut2] * 6
    #26398432 - 12/23/19 11:55 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

People voted for trump as a fuck you to democrats, Hillary Clinton and the entire political system which has failed us in many ways. The consequence is being closerto WW3 since the cold war, crippling trade wars, slashing the EPA during climate chaos, taking Obama care out without having any replacement plan, slashing social security disability insurance, a president that praises Kim Jong and Putin making excuses for them, a president that goes to any lengths to call any criticism fake news (including fox news just recently he said they are failing millions of Americans because they had an unfavorable poll about him) he sets sweeping policy through high string 3am tweets, he has no filter which connects with people but isn't how you run a country nd the free world.

He appoints people like Betsy Devos who knows nothing about education and whenever she talks she makes Pelosi sound like fucking Einstein. He's a president that thinks the "perfect" conduct is to do exactly what Nixon did by getting incriminating information about a political rival but even Nixon didn't have a different country do the dirty work, he thinks it's "perfect" that 90 minutes after the call with the Ukranian president he put a hold on funding as he laid out in his deal and immediately released the funds when it became public.

A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that. When the leader of the free world can tell a US born mixed race women to go back where she came from the rest of America starts to think that's acceptable along with everything else I outlined.

Also I think some people like offending people to feel like they rebel against the "norm" but it's just narcissistic sarcastic "hate"


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Offlinekoods
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26398446 - 12/24/19 12:04 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Great post


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26398644 - 12/24/19 05:43 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Thank you. My most avid trump supporter friend even admits he didnt expect any kind of real meaningful change from trump he just didnt want hilary (mostly be ause he believes in pizza gate theories and also thinks she is "a demon"). I didnt loke her because of the same reason I dont like trump. There's no real meaningful change under either of them. Just like there wasnt with Obama. And yes you have to be pretty stupid not to vote for meaningful change, especially when you act like you voted for someone who espoused how he was going to drain the swamp. My father voted for trump and as soon as he started appointing cabinet members he realized how wrong he was. I like how the left can be called melty snowflakes, or whatever but as soon as you mention the retard in office they want to take their ball home and stop playing.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26398677 - 12/24/19 06:08 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
"Trump is a stupid con-man!  Republicans are brain-dead Morons who vote for anyone with an R in front of their name! Anyone who doesn't agree with my views is a big doo-doo head!"
Blah, Blah, Blah

I get bored with it.  Its the reason I don't often talk politics, especially on the internet where anonymity makes people act more bold (and stupid) than they would in a civilized conversation.  Right now its the folks on the left so worked up about Trump.  A real honest discussion is near impossible.  I kinda feel bad for people who carry so much angst around about a single man. But folks on the right get the same way at times.  I remember the very mention of Obamas name sending people into fits.  But painting an entire group of people with a bold brush just because you don't agree with them will always get you to about the same place, a dead end.

In my original post I really just felt like expressing some of my views. And as of yet I haven't seen any real good rebuttal to any of them.  The impeachment is still partisan, on both sides (change my mind).  Trump isn't going anywhere until the election (change my mind).  The Democrats handling of Trump, his presidency and the impeachment may actually help Trumps re-election (change my mind).  No matter what happens to Trump he has altered the course of this country through the judiciary (change my mind).

But if you just wanna tell me again how stupid Trump and his voters are don't bother.  Your opinion is tainted and I don't care to hear the rest of your flawed opinions.




You're probably not going to like it here.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26398979 - 12/24/19 10:43 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that.





maybe it's time for people to quit thinking there is some inherent honor maintained within the act of holding office....?


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26399214 - 12/24/19 02:02 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that.





maybe it's time for people to quit thinking there is some inherent honor maintained within the act of holding office....?



So if you work at burger king and rant about US born black people going back where they came from, yeah you should be fired but the President does it and it's okay? How low have our morals and standards sunk? The US president is a figurehead and scapegoat for the American people it's supposed to be our best representative of America as possible.

This isn't just about morals though, the power the president does have is being used recklessly. We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had. He said Kim didn't know about Otto Warmbier which is obvious bullshit, he's said the Kim loves his people and just inherited a tough job and suggested that south Korea and us should stop military protection exercises that keeps NK from starting a nuke war.

That's just breaking down one destructive thing he's done because he's in over his head. There's many more equally egregious things he's done but it's a great example of how short and narrow sighted trump can be. He was just thinking " I'm going to be a hero/legend if I make peace with North Korea " So he did it as a PR stunt but now they really have been testing nukes left and right and are constantly making threats as well as providing them propaganda footage of trump saying nice things about Kim.


--------------------
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ShLong
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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26399234 - 12/24/19 02:17 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Trump is a troll and entertainer, and apparently that's what his supporters want and enjoy. People are pissed off with the current system so they like it when someone like Trump comes along and pisses all over it. 

Trump knew people would embrace his brutal honesty and trolling, he's a master of marketing himself. You can bitch about it all you want, but it looks like he's going to serve 2 terms.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26399249 - 12/24/19 02:24 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
A president that thinks it's okay to joke about a recently deceased person being in hell or telling U.S. born mixed race senators to go back where they came from. This has never been acceptable
behavior and speech from someone held to the honor of the US presidency and the incredible weight of responsibility that goes with it and it's disgraceful that it's become that.





maybe it's time for people to quit thinking there is some inherent honor maintained within the act of holding office....?



So if you work at burger king and rant about US born black people going back where they came from, yeah you should be fired but the President does it and it's okay? How low have our morals and standards sunk? The US president is a figurehead and scapegoat for the American people it's supposed to be our best representative of America as possible.

This isn't just about morals though, the power the president does have is being used recklessly. We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had. He said Kim didn't know about Otto Warmbier which is obvious bullshit, he's said the Kim loves his people and just inherited a tough job and suggested that south Korea and us should stop military protection exercises that keeps NK from starting a nuke war.

That's just breaking down one destructive thing he's done because he's in over his head. There's many more equally egregious things he's done but it's a great example of how short and narrow sighted trump can be. He was just thinking " I'm going to be a hero/legend if I make peace with North Korea " So he did it as a PR stunt but now they really have been testing nukes left and right and are constantly making threats as well as providing them propaganda footage of trump saying nice things about Kim.






i have no idea where you came up with that scenario in relation to my post.  i'm simply stating that maybe we shouldn't just give someone honor/respect for the position they hold, as opposed to their actions.


kind of like respect.  respect isn't deserved, it's earned.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman]
    #26399271 - 12/24/19 02:45 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had.



What does that mean?  Please list specifics if you have them, but here's what I read:

Trump proves critics wrong as he advances his North Korea policy with Kim meeting
Quote:

North Korea has not tested a nuclear device since September 2017.  And aside from a few short-range missiles that the North tested in anger over the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, there have been no North Korean missile launches since November 2017.

Trump believes the Vietnam summit was a partial success, since it allowed him to make clear to Kim the main requirement for an acceptable agreement: complete denuclearization of the North.

Unlike Trump’s critics who predicted that North Korea would never resume talks with the U.S. after the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, the president always believed the talks would resume.



Trump is heavily criticized for visiting North Korea and talking to Kim Jong Un, but I've always believed that talking is better than threats.

Again, I'm not too heavily invested in my position above, I'm just writing what I read in a quick search.  Maybe you can provide something more substantive?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26399326 - 12/24/19 03:35 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)



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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26399401 - 12/24/19 04:29 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You're probably not going to like it here.



Actually, after my last comment things shaped up nicely in this thread and theres been some good posts.  I don't mind people expressing their feelings about anything or anyone, just provide some reasonable commentary as to while you feel that way and share a well thought out opinion in the process.  It does descend into name calling around here a lot of the time though.

Does anyone think there is evidence to convict Trump of impeachable offenses?  Real evidence, not just opinion based hearsay and coincidence?  Personally I don't think the evidence is there.  I do think he has done plenty of things that do not rise to the level of the office.  In fact most of what he says and does is pretty facepalm worthy.  But impeachement should be a pretty high bar IMO.  Of course even if there is evidence he will never be removed in a republican senate.

I really think Democrats got him elected in 2016.  I think anyone else would have beat Trump.  Hillary was damaged goods and the anti-Hillary vote put him over the top.  It would be so easy to defeat him in 2020 if they just sat back and rolled their eyes at him daily.  I just hope the Democrats don't manage to elect him again because I don't know if I can take 4 more years of people bitching about him.  And God forbid he get another Supreme Court nomination.  The last one was ugly enough, I don't want to go through another confirmation process like that!


--------------------
You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26399443 - 12/24/19 04:56 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
We have kissed North Korean asshole since he became president and almost immediately after his election North Korea knew they could play him like a fiddle and they have also most all of the nuclear tests and threats began after his election because he's in way over his head and he's easily played.Trump has been the best thing for North Korean propaganda they've ever had.



What does that mean?  Please list specifics if you have them, but here's what I read:

Trump proves critics wrong as he advances his North Korea policy with Kim meeting
Quote:

North Korea has not tested a nuclear device since September 2017.  And aside from a few short-range missiles that the North tested in anger over the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, there have been no North Korean missile launches since November 2017.

Trump believes the Vietnam summit was a partial success, since it allowed him to make clear to Kim the main requirement for an acceptable agreement: complete denuclearization of the North.

Unlike Trump’s critics who predicted that North Korea would never resume talks with the U.S. after the breakdown of the Vietnam summit, the president always believed the talks would resume.



Trump is heavily criticized for visiting North Korea and talking to Kim Jong Un, but I've always believed that talking is better than threats.

Again, I'm not too heavily invested in my position above, I'm just writing what I read in a quick search.  Maybe you can provide something more substantive?





Trump also threatened to "totally destroy" North Korea and regularly calls North Korea's leader "Rocket Man." I'm not sure his form of talking is all that great. That said, i don't think you believe he's doing all that great of a job in NK either, but to your credit, Trump has sort of tried.


--------------------
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Offlinechristopera
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399446 - 12/24/19 04:57 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You're probably not going to like it here.



Actually, after my last comment things shaped up nicely in this thread and theres been some good posts.  I don't mind people expressing their feelings about anything or anyone, just provide some reasonable commentary as to while you feel that way and share a well thought out opinion in the process.  It does descend into name calling around here a lot of the time though.

Does anyone think there is evidence to convict Trump of impeachable offenses?  Real evidence, not just opinion based hearsay and coincidence?  Personally I don't think the evidence is there.  I do think he has done plenty of things that do not rise to the level of the office.  In fact most of what he says and does is pretty facepalm worthy.  But impeachement should be a pretty high bar IMO.  Of course even if there is evidence he will never be removed in a republican senate.

I really think Democrats got him elected in 2016.  I think anyone else would have beat Trump.  Hillary was damaged goods and the anti-Hillary vote put him over the top.  It would be so easy to defeat him in 2020 if they just sat back and rolled their eyes at him daily.  I just hope the Democrats don't manage to elect him again because I don't know if I can take 4 more years of people bitching about him.  And God forbid he get another Supreme Court nomination.  The last one was ugly enough, I don't want to go through another confirmation process like that!




Trump won't be impeached and the evidence doesn't matter because there won't be a real trial.

You're correct, the Dem's fucked up 2016. Don't forget, Hillary got more votes, despite her being a shit candidate.


--------------------
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Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera]
    #26399478 - 12/24/19 05:27 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Trump also threatened to "totally destroy" North Korea and regularly calls North Korea's leader "Rocket Man."



Maybe that strategy worked, given North Korea stopped their nuclear testing?  :shrug:

Quote:

christopera said:
I'm not sure his form of talking is all that great. That said, i don't think you believe he's doing all that great of a job in NK either, but to your credit, Trump has sort of tried.



Again, I don't know what that means.  Why do you feel he has not done a great job, especially in comparison to past presidents?

If you list the reasons, I'll probably agree, but no one's been providing any evidence for some strange reason.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26399712 - 12/24/19 09:26 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You're probably not going to like it here.



Actually, after my last comment things shaped up nicely in this thread and theres been some good posts.  I don't mind people expressing their feelings about anything or anyone, just provide some reasonable commentary as to while you feel that way and share a well thought out opinion in the process.  It does descend into name calling around here a lot of the time though.

Does anyone think there is evidence to convict Trump of impeachable offenses?  Real evidence, not just opinion based hearsay and coincidence?  Personally I don't think the evidence is there.  I do think he has done plenty of things that do not rise to the level of the office.  In fact most of what he says and does is pretty facepalm worthy.  But impeachement should be a pretty high bar IMO.  Of course even if there is evidence he will never be removed in a republican senate.

I really think Democrats got him elected in 2016.  I think anyone else would have beat Trump.  Hillary was damaged goods and the anti-Hillary vote put him over the top.  It would be so easy to defeat him in 2020 if they just sat back and rolled their eyes at him daily.  I just hope the Democrats don't manage to elect him again because I don't know if I can take 4 more years of people bitching about him.  And God forbid he get another Supreme Court nomination.  The last one was ugly enough, I don't want to go through another confirmation process like that!




Trump won't be impeached and the evidence doesn't matter because there won't be a real trial.

You're correct, the Dem's fucked up 2016. Don't forget, Hillary got more votes, despite her being a shit candidate.





Hillary got more popular votes, not electoral votes.  The popular vote doesn't mean a damn thing when the people casting the electorate vote are able to go against the will of the people and only pay a small fine for it.  Electoral votes don't have to correspond to popular vote, and they didn't in 2016.

If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26399740 - 12/24/19 09:59 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.



Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.  Its not a perfect system, but at least it forces the campaigns to try to make an effort across the country.

Trump is fresh on everyones mind, but remember, George Bush also lost the popular vote to Gore in 2000. The absence of an electoral college would have made drastic changes in the last 2 decades of US politics.  Its also why I only hear Democrats talk about abolishing the electoral college.


--------------------
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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26399748 - 12/24/19 10:09 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.



Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.  Its not a perfect system, but at least it forces the campaigns to try to make an effort across the country.

Trump is fresh on everyones mind, but remember, George Bush also lost the popular vote to Gore in 2000. The absence of an electoral college would have made drastic changes in the last 2 decades of US politics.  Its also why I only hear Democrats talk about abolishing the electoral college.






fair.  then the other option would be that the electoral college can't sway from the popular vote of the districts they represent.  that would also solve the problem, presumably.


it does seem, though, that any solid mathematician should be able to come up with a formula/algorithm that weights the votes of the larger states based on population to be equal with the votes of the less populated states


Edited by Tulipslave (12/24/19 10:37 PM)


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26399759 - 12/24/19 10:20 PM (6 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
If you want a slightly less rigged system, do away with the electoral college and only make the popular vote count.



Electoral college was put in place for a reason.  If it was all about the popular vote then national campaigns would focus on half a dozen or so key areas and pretty much ignore the entire middle of the country.  Its not a perfect system, but at least it forces the campaigns to try to make an effort across the country.

Trump is fresh on everyones mind, but remember, George Bush also lost the popular vote to Gore in 2000. The absence of an electoral college would have made drastic changes in the last 2 decades of US politics.  Its also why I only hear Democrats talk about abolishing the electoral college.






fair.  then the other option would be that the electoral college can't sway from the popular vote of the districts they represent.  that would also solve the problem, presumably.


it does seem, though, that any solid mathematician should be able to come up with a formula/logarithm that weights the votes of the larger states based on population to be equal with the votes of the less populated states



I agree that the votes of the electoral college should not be able to sway from the votes of the districts they represent.  But that hasn't been a factor in changing an outcome in a presidential race so its a moot point up to now.  And if you designed some really complicated algorithm to make it fair it would just upset people who couldn't understand it and then they would really start to dispute the outcomes.


--------------------
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