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OfflineToTheSummit
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My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy * 2
    #26394267 - 12/21/19 03:59 PM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Can we just start by all admitting that Trump is a buffoon?  Like him or hate him, the man is a clown.  In my opinion the Democrats should have just sat back through his first term and pointed to every damn-fool thing he says and roll their eyes.  Trump himself would be the best ally they had in defeating him in 2020. But Trump has struck a nerve like no other, and people are absolutely bat-shit crazy about hating the man.  The mere mention of his name sends some of my Liberal friends into fits.  Its not unlike the effect Obama had on some of my Ultra-Conservative friends, but the Trump thing has taken polarization to new heights.

So instead of just highlighting the often petty and sophomoric things he does Democrats have instead embarked on a foolish attempt to damage his viability as a candidate in 2020 with an extremely ridiculous impeachment.  Of course I think they made it clear that this would be their goal even before he was inaugurated.  We can debate the validity of this impeachment all day, but in the end everyone knows he will never be removed from office in a Senate trial.

I'm old enough to remember the Clinton impeachment well.  I thought that one was ridiculous.  This one rises to a new level of partisan hatred for the president.  Anyone who actually watched (or listened to, as I did) the hearings in the Intelligence and Judiciary committees (and I'm talking actually sitting through hours and hours of them, not just catching highlights on the news or talk shows) cannot, without suspending intellectual honesty, say they were either fair, thorough or non-partisan.  IMO Schiff and Nadlers performances as committee chairs were sad at best.

I believe the way the whole thing has been handled is going to come back to bite the Democrats in the ass in 2020, much like the Clinton impeachment did to the Republicans.  I was really waiting for some bombshell in this whole thing, but in the end the two terribly weak articles of impeachment put forward just add to the feeling that this has actually been, as Trump is so fond of saying, a witch hunt.  And now Pelosi is playing games with sending them on to the Senate until she can be sure it will be "fair".  Yeah, cause the House was so fair about it all, right?  And do we really think that it WILL be fair when McConnell get his turn at it?  Lets face it, impeachment is a partisan political process, and it always will be.  So lets not pretend there is anything noble or solemn going on here right now, on either side of the process.

So where does this whole thing leave us?  I'm of the belief that the bitter taste left behind in the American voters mouth could actually work in Trumps favor.  And should he get elected for a second term I think he will have the Democrats to thank for it.  And if he gets a second term he will be able to deepen what I believe will be his legacy in the lens of history.  And its a legacy that no amount of disgracing the man or his presidency can tear down.  I'm talking about Judicial appointments.

Trump has already made his mark on the the future of this country.  Forget his policies and all the programs he chooses to either support or tear down.  The real effect he has had is in the Judiciary.  And I'm not only talking his 2 Supreme Court nominees.  I recently heard a stat that he has nominated something like 20% of all  district court judges and over a quarter of all appellate court judges sitting on the bench today.  The pace at which he has filled the judiciary with his nominees is unprecedented. No other president even comes close.  And should Democrats hand him a second term imagine possibility of another Supreme court nominee added to all the rest that will no doubt continue.  While everyone is crying about him doing things like pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord he has quietly altered the future of this country right under their noses.

No matter what you think of him and his policies the fact remains that Trumps presidency will leave a lasting mark on this country.  Probably more of a mark then most of his predecessors.  The wild-eyed Trump haters will all say its for the worse.  The fawning Trump supporters will praise him.  This is no surprise on either side.  I fall somewhere in the middle.  Although I dislike the man personally I am not just of the opinion that 100% of his policies are bad.  Of course, being a somewhat radical Libertarian I have a tendency to get cross-ways with people on either side of the aisle depending on the topic at hand.  But no matter where you fall, Trumps name and influence will long outlive the man.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 2
    #26395053 - 12/22/19 06:58 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.


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Offlineqman
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: metalfaith]
    #26395116 - 12/22/19 08:01 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman]
    #26395253 - 12/22/19 09:39 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:




I knew this would happen as a response here.  I don't blame anyone for being like this though.  Its hard to remain objective when you have such a high level of disdain for a person.  I have fallen prey to the same thing in the past.  And Trump has earned most of the hatred he garners.  But anyone with some intellectual honesty has to admit the partisan nature of the impeachment.  And there was plenty of reason to dislike Obama at times (and Bush, and Clinton, etc.)  But a dislike for someone doesn't excuse political blindness.  Birthers were idiots, and I mocked them.  But a whole group of people have seemed to lost their damn minds over Trump.  And I'm afraid they are shooting themselves in the foot by helping his re-election chances.  If he gets another term I'm gonna laugh my ass off and face palm at the same time.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 1
    #26395273 - 12/22/19 09:49 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Oh, and the only response I have for metalfaith is regarding your final statement.  You despise Trump so much that you cannot even mask it when you label him as stupid.  Its just petty name calling, and in my opinion unfounded.  Trump is many things.  Narcissistic, petulant, immature, selfish, crude, thoughtless and most certainly has a bit of a God complex.  And thats just for starters.  But the man is definitely not stupid to have managed to get himself elected to the most powerful position in the entire world.  People loved to label Bush as stupid also because he wasn't a very good public speaker, but I think he was an extremely intelligent person and those people just said the same thing because they hated him.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: qman] * 2
    #26395659 - 12/22/19 01:54 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:




Apparently you don't know what bias is, opinions you don't agree with isn't always bias


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26395718 - 12/22/19 02:32 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Can we just start by all admitting that Trump is a buffoon?  Like him or hate him, the man is a clown.  In my opinion the Democrats should have just sat back through his first term and pointed to every damn-fool thing he says and roll their eyes.  Trump himself would be the best ally they had in defeating him in 2020. But Trump has struck a nerve like no other, and people are absolutely bat-shit crazy about hating the man.  The mere mention of his name sends some of my Liberal friends into fits.  Its not unlike the effect Obama had on some of my Ultra-Conservative friends, but the Trump thing has taken polarization to new heights.

So instead of just highlighting the often petty and sophomoric things he does Democrats have instead embarked on a foolish attempt to damage his viability as a candidate in 2020 with an extremely ridiculous impeachment.  Of course I think they made it clear that this would be their goal even before he was inaugurated.  We can debate the validity of this impeachment all day, but in the end everyone knows he will never be removed from office in a Senate trial.

I'm old enough to remember the Clinton impeachment well.  I thought that one was ridiculous.  This one rises to a new level of partisan hatred for the president.  Anyone who actually watched (or listened to, as I did) the hearings in the Intelligence and Judiciary committees (and I'm talking actually sitting through hours and hours of them, not just catching highlights on the news or talk shows) cannot, without suspending intellectual honesty, say they were either fair, thorough or non-partisan.  IMO Schiff and Nadlers performances as committee chairs were sad at best.

I believe the way the whole thing has been handled is going to come back to bite the Democrats in the ass in 2020, much like the Clinton impeachment did to the Republicans.  I was really waiting for some bombshell in this whole thing, but in the end the two terribly weak articles of impeachment put forward just add to the feeling that this has actually been, as Trump is so fond of saying, a witch hunt.  And now Pelosi is playing games with sending them on to the Senate until she can be sure it will be "fair".  Yeah, cause the House was so fair about it all, right?  And do we really think that it WILL be fair when McConnell get his turn at it?  Lets face it, impeachment is a partisan political process, and it always will be.  So lets not pretend there is anything noble or solemn going on here right now, on either side of the process.

So where does this whole thing leave us?  I'm of the belief that the bitter taste left behind in the American voters mouth could actually work in Trumps favor.  And should he get elected for a second term I think he will have the Democrats to thank for it.  And if he gets a second term he will be able to deepen what I believe will be his legacy in the lens of history.  And its a legacy that no amount of disgracing the man or his presidency can tear down.  I'm talking about Judicial appointments.

Trump has already made his mark on the the future of this country.  Forget his policies and all the programs he chooses to either support or tear down.  The real effect he has had is in the Judiciary.  And I'm not only talking his 2 Supreme Court nominees.  I recently heard a stat that he has nominated something like 20% of all  district court judges and over a quarter of all appellate court judges sitting on the bench today.  The pace at which he has filled the judiciary with his nominees is unprecedented. No other president even comes close.  And should Democrats hand him a second term imagine possibility of another Supreme court nominee added to all the rest that will no doubt continue.  While everyone is crying about him doing things like pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord he has quietly altered the future of this country right under their noses.

No matter what you think of him and his policies the fact remains that Trumps presidency will leave a lasting mark on this country.  Probably more of a mark then most of his predecessors.  The wild-eyed Trump haters will all say its for the worse.  The fawning Trump supporters will praise him.  This is no surprise on either side.  I fall somewhere in the middle.  Although I dislike the man personally I am not just of the opinion that 100% of his policies are bad.  Of course, being a somewhat radical Libertarian I have a tendency to get cross-ways with people on either side of the aisle depending on the topic at hand.  But no matter where you fall, Trumps name and influence will long outlive the man.




Had a convo with a life long friend about MJ legalization. I mentioned I thought trump might sign a federal bill if presented to him. Friend freaked the fuck out like idk, like how dare I even suggest that he could do something other than buffoonery

Like the impeachment of Clinton crossed the line into presidential sex that cannot be uncrossed, the Obama and subsequent trump presidencies have  pushed us further into open resentment and violence than this country has been in generations. Accusations of racism, illegitimacy, treason, hidden agendas, conspiracies and allegiances to foreign power however ridiculous are given air time and then allowed to reverberate in an circle jerk of comments and outrage on other's comments and outrage till the next.

What passes for journalism is partisan propaganda.

In literal terms we have crossed the Rubicon with the nuclear option. We'll never go back and it's already backfired on the originators as judges now get pushed through without bipartisan support.

Not sure where we go from here.

I am sure the impeachment was a giant waste of tax payer money and diversion from getting things done.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26395910 - 12/22/19 04:24 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

metalfaith said:
This is absolutely absurd. For several reasons.

1. it is as if you think it's a problem for someone to hate that a compete idiot is president. In your opinion somehow this automatically means the impeachment is due to this. Absurd, untrue and totally a non-sequitur.

2. While I cannot claim to know anything about your friends... This is unlike anything Obama or the people who hated him did. He at least could garner some respect as someone who isn't completely retarded, regardless of how much you disagree with him. Both parties will have people who will impulsively hate the other. Difference for Trump is huge - Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship. Trump is an idiot. Trump has left the conclusions of his own internal security agencies, such as the FBi. Trump has praised and seemingly admired crazy authoritarian dictators.

Hating Trump(Right) and Hating Obama(Left) may always happen, but the difference is vast and undeniable. One is obviously stupid and the other simply has different political goals.




You claim there isn't any bias against Trump and then you spew tons of your own bias against him.  :facepalm:




Apparently you don't know what bias is, opinions you don't agree with isn't always bias



Not always, but opinions are usually loaded with bias.  Its the very nature of having an opinion.  We all have bias, its just whether or not we can set aside our bias long enough to see the point the other person is making even when we don't agree.  And metalfaiths post was loaded with obvious bias.  Terms like "completely retarded", "stupid" and "compete idiot" (his spelling there, not mine) every time he refers to Trump make everything he says nothing but pure bias.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26395919 - 12/22/19 04:26 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Not sure where we go from here.



I doubt its going to be pretty.  I got another good 25 years or so in me and then you guys can have this crazy ball of string and I won't have to worry about it.  Thank God I never had kids to pass this mess on to!


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #26396063 - 12/22/19 05:57 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
I got another good 25 years or so in me and then you guys can have this crazy ball of string and I won't have to worry about it.  Thank God I never had kids to pass this mess on to!





Sounds like we're sailing similar vessels in these regards.

But I'm not waiting for the reaper; I've already been shedding the worries about our collective heading.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 2
    #26396122 - 12/22/19 06:33 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

So what youre saying is that trump is a ridiculous clown, but calling him stupid is going too far and shows people's bias? Listen I know some dumb fuck con men. People who grift off of people via emotion. That's all Trump is. You dont have to be smart to do that. Sure its a smart move, but it doesnt take a smart person to figure that out. Hes like one of those seed faith preachers.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #26396137 - 12/22/19 06:42 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

It doesn’t take a smart man to fool stupid people


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: koods]
    #26396146 - 12/22/19 06:49 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Exactly.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #26396150 - 12/22/19 06:51 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

To be honest I think its more about the republicans just caring whether or not they will win. People on thebleft are principled enough to not vote for a democratic candidate if that candidate doesnt represent their views. See: people who wouldnt vote clinton because she wasnt Bernie. Republicans can band together under any tool bag so long as they arent democrats.


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Offlinedreamachine


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 2
    #26396598 - 12/23/19 12:44 AM (6 months, 18 days ago)

I voted for Trump because he was a clown and Hillary was a demon. And I'd rather have a clown for president then a demon. That said Trump aint no Jesus Christ so far as i can tell, however the crackdown on pedophilia and human trafficking has skyrocketed since his inauguration so far as I can tell; economically it seems the poor have still be largely left behind in, however I don't think anything Trump has done is worthy of removing him from office; especially if we compare it to what past presidents have done; that said I think the democrats should have focused on developing the 'perfect' candidate for 2020 instead of fighting with all this impeachment b.s. They got Tulsi, who's as perfect as they're going to get, and I'd be willing to bet a lot that the DNC won't nominate her regardless.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: dreamachine]
    #26396844 - 12/23/19 06:13 AM (6 months, 18 days ago)

You do realize human trafficking is up 800+ percent right? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/human-sex-trafficking-up-842-california-leads
I'll give it to Donnie and his wife though they are trying to fight it.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26396847 - 12/23/19 06:26 AM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

voted for Trump because he was a clown and Hillary was a demon.




  Demons aren’t even a real thing . Clowns do exist though .
If you think The Republican Party is kinda silly and the Democratic Party was literally spawned in hell your probably an independent .


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Edited by Psilynut2 (12/23/19 06:36 AM)


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: metalfaith]
    #26396853 - 12/23/19 06:34 AM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
Trump has elected plenty of unqualified judges clearly for partisanship.



I think this wil be remembered as a very key point in his presidency, believe it or not. Most of the more famous political figures in history have the very distinct qualifier of stocking their senate, cabinet, etc. etc. with yesmen. Incompetent, inexperienced, yesmen. Every famous Roman consul or emperor. Every 'pushy' president of the us. Every cartel leader or gang leader. Every dictator/authoritarian. Most influential, powerful people, have a crucial part of their story in common, and that is deliberately surrounding themselves with yesmen. Always helps to achieve quick success, and leads to slow failure. Regardless, is a very important thing to note, and a key point to acknowledge.


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: dreamachine]
    #26396894 - 12/23/19 07:19 AM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Hillary was a demon.



This kind of talk has no place in public discourse. There’s no such thing as demons


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Re: My thoughts on Trump, his impeachment and his legacy [Re: ToTheSummit] * 1
    #26396916 - 12/23/19 07:40 AM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
...the man is definitely not stupid to have managed to get himself elected to the most powerful position in the entire world...




It seems this just isn't true. You can , in fact, be a complete moron and still get elected by complete morons. It happens all over the world again and again.

:cookiemonster:

::edit::

Christmas and stuff

:flyagaricsanta:


Edited by mycoprog (12/23/19 07:44 AM)


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