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Offlineshhitsokay
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A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here
    #26393946 - 12/21/19 12:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all, I am coming to these forums in help of some insight on what the fuck has been going on.  First and foremost, I wrote a little trip report on reddit a while back and am going to link it here if you are so inclined to read through it.  This took place almost exactly a month ago and have not felt any better since (actually to the point of debilitation, had to move home and can not revisit my old apartment due to ptsd/flashbacks). 

Ever since this trip I have been feeling some way.  Just feelings of being off (what I assume to be dp/dr), and waves of pure panic (exactly like the terror/panic feeling I felt during the trip).  I can not even leave my house and everything from doing my laundry to visiting friends scares me and induces anxiety to the point of tremors.   

I am a fool and treated psychedelics like a toy and am worried I have sustained some psychological damage to myself.  My therapist has been adamant that I have brought up my childhood trauma (BPD and Complex PTSD from childhood trauma) but I am not sure that if he understands the world of psychedelics. I have begun to accept that I need to integrate this experience and am having extreme difficulty doing so.  I don't even know where to begin. Any advice, personal experiences, or recommendations would be helpful.

If I need to clarify anything, please let me know and I will reach out as soon as possible.



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InvisibleHartford
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26393968 - 12/21/19 12:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Brush your teeth after every meal and floss daily. Drink plenty of water and eat green leafy vegetables to replenish the nutrients you lost.


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Offlineshhitsokay
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Hartford]
    #26393977 - 12/21/19 12:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't understand what this has to do with anything...? Sorry, but what are you trying to say?


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OfflineNeuroJuice
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26393994 - 12/21/19 12:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I could be wrong but I think he is saying you will be fine give it time and try to engage in a healthy lifestyle. Eating healthy and working out will go very far. Exercise releases brain derived neurotrophic factors in your brain which spawns new brain cells to grow. If you stay healthy, stay away from drugs for a bit, and don’t think about there being something wrong with you, you will be fine!


--------------------
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Everyone is just doing the best they can with what they know and have. We are all just perfectly being ourselves.


Everything that happens is absolutely, perfectly, exactly what is supposed to happen. How do we know this? Because it happens.


Edited by NeuroJuice (12/21/19 12:51 PM)


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26394000 - 12/21/19 12:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shhitsokay said:
I don't understand what this has to do with anything...? Sorry, but what are you trying to say?




That's basic health advice. On a more philosophical note, have you ever read the Bible?


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Offlinesonoramo
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26394016 - 12/21/19 01:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Shrooms are among the most intelligent and loving beings on the planet. It is very unlikely that they will take you someplace just to fuck you up. Much more likely that they are trying to save you from self-destructive behaviors.


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Offlineshhitsokay
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Hartford]
    #26394032 - 12/21/19 01:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, grew up in a Catholic family and went to catholic school my whole life.  Going to church for the first time in years this weekend with my mom, actually.


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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: NeuroJuice]
    #26394046 - 12/21/19 01:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Pretty much all the advice I could give you're either working on already or others have suggested in your reddit thread.

To me it sounds like the mushrooms did what mushrooms do, they brought your shit to the forefront. You had it buried somewhere, and by tripping you dug it back up. A larger dose may have made it easier to be engulfed by the experience and let it all go, doses in the 1-2g range can be tricky as you can sometimes get all the anxiety with much less of the relief when the trip takes you over and you get the waves of euphoria and can visualize the issues that come up and ride them out. Cannabis use while on psychedelics can turn things south quickly for a lot of people also, even leading to psychosis.

It sounds like you're taking the right steps, time will almost certainly heal things if you keep working on addressing your traumas and working to accept/let go. I know it's counter intuitive but really don't be afraid to trip again in the future. If you read about people who've done aya sessions where it's 5-10 nights straight, they can have experiences just like yours where the last thing they want to ever do again is trip and they think they're permanently broken... but then their next trip brings on an experience that allows them to work out what they previously experienced and they come out feeling like a new person. Where you're having visual distortions I'm guessing it'd be better to wait awhile, but no one really knows with this stuff. I believe there's an hppd specific forum you could check out

I had something similar happen after a trip. I woke up the next morning and tried to read, but just couldn't focus at all and just had this crazy pressure in my head and piercing anxiety. I could barely catch my breath, everything felt wrong and I didn't really know what was real. I thought I did some permanent damage, I was doing everything I could to get my bearings or just distract myself. Went for a hike which helped a little but when I got home it all came back.

I'm a fairly experienced meditator, but could not get in the headspace for it at all. I was ready to go to the ER and try to get tranquilized. I was like that for a few days, I wish I could think of anything that helped it go away, but I think it was just time. I did exercise and do yoga and eat well which helped a little I guess, but I think I eventually just gave in and came to terms with that might just be how things were going to be from now on, and just accepting it helped it gradually start to fade :shrug2:

Good luck though, I'd definitely recommend the CBT that was mentioned on reddit. EMDR is pretty gimicky and the "inventors" of it are money-grubbers, but a proper trauma-informed therapist should have some worthwhile techniques in their arsenal


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Offlineshhitsokay
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: feevers]
    #26394062 - 12/21/19 01:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Pretty much all the advice I could give you're either working on already or others have suggested in your reddit thread.

To me it sounds like the mushrooms did what mushrooms do, they brought your shit to the forefront. You had it buried somewhere, and by tripping you dug it back up. A larger dose may have made it easier to be engulfed by the experience and let it all go, doses in the 1-2g range can be tricky as you can sometimes get all the anxiety with much less of the relief when the trip takes you over and you get the waves of euphoria and can visualize the issues that come up and ride them out. Cannabis use while on psychedelics can turn things south quickly for a lot of people also, even leading to psychosis.

It sounds like you're taking the right steps, time will almost certainly heal things if you keep working on addressing your traumas and working to accept/let go. I know it's counter intuitive but really don't be afraid to trip again in the future. If you read about people who've done aya sessions where it's 5-10 nights straight, they can have experiences just like yours where the last thing they want to ever do again is trip and they think they're permanently broken... but then their next trip brings on an experience that allows them to work out what they previously experienced and they come out feeling like a new person. Where you're having visual distortions I'm guessing it'd be better to wait awhile, but no one really knows with this stuff. I believe there's an hppd specific forum you could check out

I had something similar happen after a trip. I woke up the next morning and tried to read, but just couldn't focus at all and just had this crazy pressure in my head and piercing anxiety. I could barely catch my breath, everything felt wrong and I didn't really know what was real. I thought I did some permanent damage, I was doing everything I could to get my bearings or just distract myself. Went for a hike which helped a little but when I got home it all came back.

I'm a fairly experienced meditator, but could not get in the headspace for it at all. I was ready to go to the ER and try to get tranquilized. I was like that for a few days, I wish I could think of anything that helped it go away, but I think it was just time. I did exercise and do yoga and eat well which helped a little I guess, but I think I eventually just gave in and came to terms with that might just be how things were going to be from now on, and just accepting it helped it gradually start to fade :shrug2:

Good luck though, I'd definitely recommend the CBT that was mentioned on reddit. EMDR is pretty gimicky and the "inventors" of it are money-grubbers, but a proper trauma-informed therapist should have some worthwhile techniques in their arsenal




Thanks for the reply.  I am working with my therapist right now and he told me exactly what you did; everything came to the front.  And trust me there is A LOT of shit pushed down.  Very narcissistic father growing up, he didn't even let me shed a bit of emotion without being shamed and made fun  of.  I guess I will keep working on my therapy and trying to stay strong.  The dp/dr and what seems like hppd symptoms have brought some suicidal ideation to the forefront.  Has not been fun as of lately.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26394067 - 12/21/19 01:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

OP.

You've got two choices.

Face up to and deal with the lessons you learnt about yourself and your life.
Or pretend like it didnt happen.

I suggest you do the former.

You had a trip with the wrong people in what sounds like the wrong place.

Those moments of loathing and guilt are normal as we all carry baggage.
At some point these will open to points of love and acceptance of your failing with the wish and will to change them.

Psycedelics are not to be trifled with but the fact that you're here(or anywhere) seeking answers means your were likely ready to begin the journey.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26394076 - 12/21/19 01:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shhitsokay said:
Yeah, grew up in a Catholic family and went to catholic school my whole life.  Going to church for the first time in years this weekend with my mom, actually.




Great. Sounds like it's time to present your findings! It is what it is. Congrats.


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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Hartford]
    #26394090 - 12/21/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

His findings are for him.

Do not walk into a church and do exactly what they are trying to do to you.


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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Hartford]
    #26394108 - 12/21/19 02:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps your own thoughts are whats inducing your panic attacks? Are you mindful of your own thoughts?

Xanax is used to bring someone down that is tripping to hard. Just a thought


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26394130 - 12/21/19 02:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It might be worth re-posting your reddit trip report in the "Trip Reports" section of "The Psychedelic Experience" forum here on the Shroomery and re-posting this in the main part of "The Psychedelic Experience" - I only noticed it because it cropped up in "recent posts" but I don't normally visit the Well-Being forum.

Quoting from your reddit trip report:

Quote:

So long story short, I tripped on 1.5g of shrooms which looked different than any shrooms I’ve ever seen. Super super small and barely had a crown.




These could be something like "pans cyans" which are stronger and much smaller than cubes and can give quite a ferocious trip with amounts which look insignificant.

Quote:

at this point I just have this awful panicky, anxious, need to get tf out of this situation feeling.




High doses of shrooms can often feel like this, especially during the onset. You feel anxious, uncomfortable and the intensity of the trip can be difficult to cope with. The "no way out" sensation can lead to a panic attack which adds to the physical and mental discomfort and you can feel as though you are "going insane" or something terrible is happening to you. It's the classic 'bad trip' scenario although usually the intensity will ease off at some point and allow you to calm down and start enjoying the experience.

Quote:

I was having an existential crisis trying to calm myself down... and had these awful feelings. Just unexplainable. More like self disgust and shame. So for two hours I sat on my bed fighting what was happening being consumed by panic, terror, shame, and regret.




I recognize this feeling. Shrooms can lead to very heavy introspection and harsh self-judgement. Sometimes there can be a oppressive feeling of "wrongness", the trip feels like a heavy weight  pressing down on you, the whole experience is saturated with a feeling of imminent doom, which can be a build up to something which feels like:

Quote:

I feel like my soul was ripped from my body




The trip finally peaks, giving you some kind of hard-to-describe experience of oblivion...

Quote:

I started to feel this extreme connection to everything and anything




After which things calm  down a little bit and you get the more psychedelic feelings of connection to the universe or things in general.

All of that sounds like a normal experience at a high dose - it can be an extremely intense, extremely powerful experience which I once described as "having your mind ripped open like a sardine can".

Quote:

The next day I wake up and oh. My. God. I did not feel okay. Straight anxiety and panic like the night before, still tripping, and felt disconnected from reality and myself (what I assume is dp/dr). Everything was so bright on my way to class and I still felt trippy. Like major trippy not just an afterglow. I didn’t think much of it because I assumed I was just having a bad trip hangover. A few days later panic attacks don’t stop, still having visual distortions, and dp/dr. I quit smoking weed, drinking, and nicotine hoping it would help me return to my normal self (30 days sober). To no avail. Here I am a month later feeling extremely disconnected from reality, trippy, having visual distortions, anxiety in my chest 24/7, panic attacks, and major major dp/dr. I think it might be hppd or ptsd, not sure if there’s a difference. It’s been so bad I had to move home from university. I told my mom what happened after a week of suffering alone and she’s been a huge support calming me down during my full blown panic attacks that come out of nowhere.

I have begun to accept what has happened and need some guidance on where to go from here. I have an appt. with a general practitioner soon but don’t expect much. My therapist doesn’t think this is normal and he was the one who recommended that I see an MD. Sorry for the long post but any help would be appreciated. I feel like I’m fucking losing my mind. I no longer feel like me and have been sitting in a dark room playing runescape avoiding life (thankfully I’m on winter break atm).

A side note as well; I was diagnosed with BPD and complex PTSD about a year ago due to my narcissistic father and the trauma he bestowed upon me. Now I have this to deal with on top of that and seriously have moments during the worst of it considering suicide. I don’t want to hurt my mom so I know the obvious thing to do is process and figure out where to go from here.




To be honest I think HPPD is very unlikely from a single dose of shrooms; HPPD seems to be the sort of thing that happens if you take enormous doses of LSD (or similar chemicals) on a regular basis over a long period of time.

What you report sounds like a combination of anxiety/panic and feelings of dissociation (dp/dr I assume is a reference to depersonalization & derealization).

This is not the first time I've read something along similar lines, and they seem to have the same background of "I regularly smoke weed, then I took mushrooms and it fucked me up."

I wouldn't worry about shrooms 'doing anything' to your brain as such, they mimic the neurotransmitter serotonin by having a similar chemical structure, and then they pass out of your system.

I think a strong trip can act more like a trigger or a stressor, a traumatic event that can fuel conditions related to anxiety. Already being diagnosed with PTSD (not to mention BPD (bipolar disorder?) is significant.

If you add a trip which is the psychological equivalent of world war three to an existing condition like PTSD, it doesn't surprise me if it generates some anxiety and panic afterwards.

I would relax about the trip doing some permanent "damage" to you, I think it's just stirred up a lot of anxiety and the fear of being permanently damaged is part of that anxiety.

Think of the trip as a traumatic experience that will take some time to get over. A doctor might be able to prescribe something which calms you down a little bit, and then you already have a therapist which you can discuss this with.

It might help if you get some comments from people who have been through something similar (which I why I suggested posting in the Psychedelic Experience section). I expect most of them will say it affected them for a certain amount of time and then they gradually went back to normal.

OK it's not a great situation, I can't just say "oh just relax and you'll instantly be fine"  but don't give up and have confidence that you can work through it :thumbup:

Best Wishes

Aldebaran

:nyan:


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Offlineshhitsokay
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26394251 - 12/21/19 03:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
It might be worth re-posting your reddit trip report in the "Trip Reports" section of "The Psychedelic Experience" forum here on the Shroomery and re-posting this in the main part of "The Psychedelic Experience" - I only noticed it because it cropped up in "recent posts" but I don't normally visit the Well-Being forum.





Thanks for that, new here, is there any way to crosspost to a new section?



Quote:

This is not the first time I've read something along similar lines, and they seem to have the same background of "I regularly smoke weed, then I took mushrooms and it fucked me up."

I wouldn't worry about shrooms 'doing anything' to your brain as such, they mimic the neurotransmitter serotonin by having a similar chemical structure, and then they pass out of your system.





I was worried at first because everything still seems to look like it is in a 'trippy/detached state', but my therapist has assured me that is most likely due to the dp/dr or a really long afterglow -- which I have heard is possible? 


Quote:

I think a strong trip can act more like a trigger or a stressor, a traumatic event that can fuel conditions related to anxiety. Already being diagnosed with PTSD (not to mention BPD (bipolar disorder?) is significant.

If you add a trip which is the psychological equivalent of world war three to an existing condition like PTSD, it doesn't surprise me if it generates some anxiety and panic afterwards.






BPD is borderline personality disorder.  It's a very harsh mental health condition, something that I struggle with everyday (lots of suicidal and self-harm ideation, shifting/non-existent sense of self, depression, anxiety, mood disorder, etc. Not fun.  I am not the type of person who should be fucking around with psychedelics, but I did and I can not take that back.
 
Quote:

I would relax about the trip doing some permanent "damage" to you, I think it's just stirred up a lot of anxiety and the fear of being permanently damaged is part of that anxiety.






My therapist also agrees I may have hppd, but he did not/can not officially diagnose me without the advice of an MD and MRIs, etc.  So we will see.  I am having the classic symptoms (starting the day after the trip); Visual snow, CEVs at night, head pressure, tinnitus, light sensitivity, breathing textures in my surroundings, positive after images, etc. Hopefully it is anxiety provoking these symptoms but its kind of doubtful imo.


Quote:

Think of the trip as a traumatic experience that will take some time to get over. A doctor might be able to prescribe something which calms you down a little bit, and then you already have a therapist which you can discuss this with.





Many people are recomending Xanax, but I have substance abuse issues and am pretty against medication (I feel as if it is a band-aid over a wound; temporary relief but not addressing the actual issue. No disrespect to those who disagree with me.).


Quote:

It might help if you get some comments from people who have been through something similar (which I why I suggested posting in the Psychedelic Experience section). I expect most of them will say it affected them for a certain amount of time and then they gradually went back to normal.





Hope that is the case.  I am going to start getting back into my normal routine soon, trying my best to fight through this.  Thank you for your thoughtful response. Sorry if the formatting is a little wonky, I am on my phone atm.


Edited by shhitsokay (12/21/19 03:52 PM)


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Offlineshhitsokay
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Raven44]
    #26394261 - 12/21/19 03:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Raven44 said:
Perhaps your own thoughts are whats inducing your panic attacks? Are you mindful of your own thoughts?

Xanax is used to bring someone down that is tripping to hard. Just a thought




I am always in my head 24/7. No disrespect, but I am not a fan of using Xanax.  I have substance abuse issues that I am a month into going cold turkey on (even cigs), so I would like to avoid any substances.  It's like a band-aid on a boat to me. If there is abuse potential... I will abuse.


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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26394278 - 12/21/19 04:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah Xanax was a bad suggestion but thought you may like to know that figured you might not be aware. A lot of folks keep them on hand just in case they or someone close is tripping to hard and that’s the only reason they have them. Perhaps for next time

I think some time to adapt to your newly found way of thinking and viewing life will help like previously stated and also do not begin to believe your gonna be permanently messed up have faith it will get better and stay strong

Binearal beats listened to with head phones in is designed to balance the two hemispheres of the brain which can help not be stuck in the brain so much and will help you connect w your heart more so


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: pineninja]
    #26394287 - 12/21/19 04:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
His findings are for him.

Do not walk into a church and do exactly what they are trying to do to you.




His findings should be presented to all contributing parties so they can see the results and revise or reinforce accordingly. Hiding the results is not very scientific, imo.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: shhitsokay]
    #26394387 - 12/21/19 05:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

My therapist also agrees I may have hppd, but he did not/can not officially diagnose me without the advice of an MD and MRIs, etc.  So we will see.  I am having the classic symptoms (starting the day after the trip); Visual snow, CEVs at night, head pressure, tinnitus, light sensitivity, breathing textures in my surroundings, positive after images, etc. Hopefully it is anxiety provoking these symptoms but its kind of doubtful imo.




It's not a well-understood condition. I'm not saying it's impossible you have it, but the situation would be clearer if you were otherwise back to normal and the visual issues were your only symptoms.

You can notice some visual effects persisting after high doses (I've sometimes seen a kind of minor 'snow' effect in a very dark room or with my eyes shut) without having HPPD as such; I just wonder if your other issues are magnifying these after-effects and causing them to persist longer than normal.


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Re: A shroom trip fucked me up and I can't understand what to do from here [Re: Hartford]
    #26394734 - 12/21/19 10:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
His findings are for him.

Do not walk into a church and do exactly what they are trying to do to you.




His findings should be presented to all contributing parties so they can see the results and revise or reinforce accordingly. Hiding the results is not very scientific, imo.




The church ain't a place to get all scientific.


--------------------
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