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Schroomfairy
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Oat help
#26392507 - 12/20/19 01:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have the horse oats from the TSC.. when preparing my oats they never come out perfect. They mostly split and get mushy when sitting. Iβll describe what Iβm doing and would like to see if anyone has a better way of doing things..
2 cups oats and place in a large pot. I fill with water half way and place on stove on max heat. When I start to see bubbles from it boiling, I remove off of stove, place a lid on it and let it sit for 20 min. Then let drain for a few hours. Then place in fridge overnight. Then place in jars and PC.
Each time I do it I have inconsistencies.
Thank you for reading and your feedback.
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chinaman9
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I've been using oats for a few months now, making batches about every two weeks, so I'm not super experienced, but I just followed BOD's Easy AF Oat prep tek to a T from the start and my oats seem great and are growing good mushrooms!
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Crackatoa
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Personally, I bring water to a boil, take off burner, pour in oats, cover. Let sit for 45 min. Pour into strainer and let drip for awhile. Put in fridge overnight next day, ready to go. I feel like bringing the oats to a boil and then letting them hydrate to long and causing issues.
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HighHarles
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Quote:
Crackatoa said: I feel like bringing the oats to a boil and then letting them hydrate to long and causing issues.

Agreed. Just follow bods tek n stick to the 30-45 min range. After bringing it up to a boil reduce the heat to low. It should still boil.
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gizmo1



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I like to dump oats in boiling then bring them back to a boil then shut off the heat cover and let them sit for 10 to 35 mins checking regularly for doneness. Usually check by cutting them in half and checking the color of the centers. With oats they are easy to over cook because the hull will hide bursting grains Dont look for the first burst grains like with other grain prep instead cut them open and check regularly.
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mushman1017
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26392722 - 12/20/19 04:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive been using the other TEK where you put your oats in a pot, and then in a seperate pot boil enough water to cover the oats by at least an inch or two (usually double amount of water compared to oats, so if you are doing 6 quarts oats, Ill do 12 quarts water to boil). Once it boils I just throw the boiling water in the pot with oats, cover with a lid and let it sit for 12 hours or so... then drain it, pour the oats on to cookie sheets and let it dry for another 12 hours, and next day they are ready to jar up and PC and ive never had an issue doing this as ive gone through 2 50lb bags without issues. Always comes out relatively dry, but hydrated. Works like a charm and that way theres no overcooking it.
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RandyFeller
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I'd try the recipe Caps posted...1 cup oats 1/3 cup boiling water..let sir for an hour or 2 and pc. I usually soak my oats for 24 hours and then dry em until they're at the proper moisture level and load em up.
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Crackatoa
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Check out my tek
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gizmo1



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Samiam76
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Quote:
chinaman9 said: I've been using oats for a few months now, making batches about every two weeks, so I'm not super experienced, but I just followed BOD's Easy AF Oat prep tek to a T from the start and my oats seem great and are growing good mushrooms!
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Schroomfairy
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Thanks everyone, especially my boy Crackatoa. I will try a few different options... I think my high altitude may play a factor.
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Dr.Dank
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Quote:
gizmo1 said: Oats fkin suck.
Wheat is the motherfuckin shit.
Almost no down side to wbs besides lack of consistency and can be sort of dirty.
Popcorn... I see no reason to use it.
Rye is all right but price sucks.
Cracked corn works but gets sticky if you dont know what you are doimg.
I've gone through atleast 100lb of each of these grains With wbs and oats more far more than 100 lbs. The only exception Is popcorn I didn't use it much.
I've learned alot using different grains. Next grain I will try is barley. Gotta burn through a couple 100lbs of stocked up oats first.
By far my favorite is wheat. Easiest to prep, Cleanest(especially food grade), most uniform, smells great and most importantly mushrooms love wheat. Try them you wont regret it.
no idea why the hate for oats came out on another thread, but they work great!
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gizmo1



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Re: Oat help [Re: Dr.Dank] 1
#26393222 - 12/20/19 09:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Canna-bliss1 said:
Quote:
gizmo1 said: Oats fkin suck.
Wheat is the motherfuckin shit.
Almost no down side to wbs besides lack of consistency and can be sort of dirty.
Popcorn... I see no reason to use it.
Rye is all right but price sucks.
Cracked corn works but gets sticky if you dont know what you are doimg.
I've gone through atleast 100lb of each of these grains With wbs and oats more far more than 100 lbs. The only exception Is popcorn I didn't use it much.
I've learned alot using different grains. Next grain I will try is barley. Gotta burn through a couple 100lbs of stocked up oats first.
By far my favorite is wheat. Easiest to prep, Cleanest(especially food grade), most uniform, smells great and most importantly mushrooms love wheat. Try them you wont regret it.
no idea why the hate for oats came out on another thread, but they work great!
I do hate them but this thread is not about my opinion on them. I posted to help another member out I left my feelings at the door. Maybe you should too bud. Just so you know I have my reasons for hating oats it's not because they are "cheap and work" it's because they are the dirtiest grains I have worked with, the hull hides what's really going on with the grain during prep and they require much more time sterilizing than other grains that I've used. With wbs as well as many other grains I can easily get away with 1 to 1.5 hours. With oats at 2 hours there is still no guarantee they will be clean. I have to go atleast that long. And trust me I've tried them prepped many different ways it's not my prep. I've burned through a bunch of oats and have a couple hundred lbs left. I dont like them. My opinion, not Democrats and Republicans lol. So now that we've brought that thread into this I have a question for you about a trade I think we did back in the day... I'll just PM you.
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Samiam76
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Quote:
Schroomfairy said: Thanks everyone, especially my boy Crackatoa. I will try a few different options... I think my high altitude may play a factor.
I followed bods easy AF oats with no problem at 5000ft elevation...hope this helps.
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Crackatoa
Stranger in a strange land



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Quote:
Schroomfairy said: Thanks everyone, especially my boy Crackatoa. I will try a few different options... I think my high altitude may play a factor.
No problem, gotta tell me how it works for you
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Schroomfairy
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How many percentage wise should be split?
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KinokoKomodo
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none should be split. cooking grain isn't rocket science. if you can figure out rice you can figure out oats. add oats and fill your pot with water as high as you're comfortable. bring to a boil. reduce to simmer for about 30 minutes, stir occasionally. after most of the water is absorbed squeeze a few grains. you want the grain a tiny bit dry in the middle. strain the pot and go straight into jars. don't worry if it's strained totally dry. you can pc immediately. the tiny bit of moisture on the grains during the pc cycle will cook the grain the rest of the way.
perfect grain every time, no matter what grain it is they're all the same prep....just adjust cooking time according to grain size. wbs does better after a 24hour soak to allow endospores to germinate prior to pc cycle. wbs is dirty af!!
Edited by KinokoKomodo (12/22/19 05:55 PM)
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gizmo1



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Split like burst grains? Well I guess the answer to that would be no more than 10% burst grains. Really the less the better but if you have a few more that doesn't mean the grains are bad I still use mine if they get a little overcooked and dont have too many issues.
If you use a slower or more mild prep you can prep without bursting grains.
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Dr.Dank
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Honestly it's really simple and over thinking can cause problems. It's all "dirty", its grain! It's simple, we hydrate the grain slowly as to not burst too many, and the pressure cooker does the dirty work. If done proper there should be no problems, if contaminants show up it's most likely the mycelium culture/spores or inoculation technique that caused the contamination. Sum it up:Grain choice has nothing to do with contams if done right.
Edited by Dr.Dank (12/22/19 06:57 PM)
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YogiBear



Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
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Id just follow Bods oat tek to the T for beginners to oats.
You just need to pull the oats out of the water as soon as You see 1-2 burst grains.
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hamonz
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I just straight put the oats and water then put my gas stove on high for 45 mins and they are perfect every time.
dry overnight
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Mushr00mSurprise
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Re: Oat help [Re: hamonz]
#26396537 - 12/22/19 11:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just boil for 30 mins strain and let sit until dry on toilet paper.
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JohnRainy
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Im finding variation in the time it takes to properly hydrate oats. You can't say boil all oats for 20 min or boil all oats for 30 min.
Some oats will be ready in 3-4 minutes of boiling. I don't know why there can be such a big time difference between different bags. The oats that are fast like that are softer, they have more give when I pinch them while dry. That's about the only thing I can tell different about them. I don't know what would cause that, I always think maybe they were cut down a little early and haven't filled out yet.
If you are getting burst grains you are boiling too long. When I open a new bag I boil a handful of them and see how long until they start to burst, then I subtract a couple minutes from that time for the prep.
I don't like it at all. I like consistency. I used to use rye, but now I cannot get it. Maybe I should try wheat.
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Schroomfairy
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Im finding variation in the time it takes to properly hydrate oats. You can't say boil all oats for 20 min or boil all oats for 30 min.
Some oats will be ready in 3-4 minutes of boiling. I don't know why there can be such a big time difference between different bags. The oats that are fast like that are softer, they have more give when I pinch them while dry. That's about the only thing I can tell different about them. I don't know what would cause that, I always think maybe they were cut down a little early and haven't filled out yet.
If you are getting burst grains you are boiling too long. When I open a new bag I boil a handful of them and see how long until they start to burst, then I subtract a couple minutes from that time for the prep.
I don't like it at all. I like consistency. I used to use rye, but now I cannot get it. Maybe I should try wheat.
You saved my sanity. I was just thinking about how my oats are different... my oats I can only let them sit for 10-15 min and they start bursting. I thought altitude was a factor but it isnβt... itβs the oats. Thanks for your reply !!
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KinokoKomodo
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you should be checking and stirring the oats every 5-10 minutes. there should never be a question as to how long it takes. if you're watching it you will know when it's done. the oats go from pale to brown in color as they hydrate, and almost all the water will be absorbed. if it takes you less time that's ok....just cook them until they have a TINY dry granule in the middle when you split them open with a knife or your fingernail. a 2 hour pc cycle will finish them off from here, and you know you will never have very many burst ones, if any at all.
Edited by KinokoKomodo (12/23/19 09:06 AM)
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Schroomfairy
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Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: you should be checking and stirring the oats every 5-10 minutes. there should never be a question as to how long it takes. if you're watching it you will know when it's done. the oats go from pale to brown in color as they hydrate, and almost all the water will be absorbed. if it takes you less time that's ok....just cook them until they have a TINY dry granule in the middle when you split them open with a knife or your fingernail. a 2 hour pc cycle will finish them off from here, and you know you will never have very many burst ones, if any at all.
Yes agreed. This should have been in the BOD's TEK rather than a specific amount of time. I follow directions perfectly, and with oats not being consistent, time will fluctuate. Thanks for everyone's help, much appreciated!!
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Registered: 10/08/19
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Quote:
Schroomfairy said:
Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: you should be checking and stirring the oats every 5-10 minutes. there should never be a question as to how long it takes. if you're watching it you will know when it's done. the oats go from pale to brown in color as they hydrate, and almost all the water will be absorbed. if it takes you less time that's ok....just cook them until they have a TINY dry granule in the middle when you split them open with a knife or your fingernail. a 2 hour pc cycle will finish them off from here, and you know you will never have very many burst ones, if any at all.
Yes agreed. This should have been in the BOD's TEK rather than a specific amount of time. I follow directions perfectly, and with oats not being consistent, time will fluctuate. Thanks for everyone's help, much appreciated!!
Ya I agree too many variables to set a certain time frame, your stove top, pot size, and the oats all fluctuate the amount of time you need.
I went off looking for burst grains to tell when it was done. Took over an hr to see any burst grains and ended up being mush after the PC cycle...
How I'm looking in the center of the kernel and it only took 25 mins for them to be cooked throughly.
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Schroomfairy
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I think a new tek should be developed with a 1 cup test of the grain. The test grain will then show what all of your grain will be like. Again, working with consistency is imperative for repeated success. I may redo BODs tek with this new strategy.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Loc: FREEDOM
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Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:
Schroomfairy said:
Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: you should be checking and stirring the oats every 5-10 minutes. there should never be a question as to how long it takes. if you're watching it you will know when it's done. the oats go from pale to brown in color as they hydrate, and almost all the water will be absorbed. if it takes you less time that's ok....just cook them until they have a TINY dry granule in the middle when you split them open with a knife or your fingernail. a 2 hour pc cycle will finish them off from here, and you know you will never have very many burst ones, if any at all.
Yes agreed. This should have been in the BOD's TEK rather than a specific amount of time. I follow directions perfectly, and with oats not being consistent, time will fluctuate. Thanks for everyone's help, much appreciated!!
Ya I agree too many variables to set a certain time frame, your stove top, pot size, and the oats all fluctuate the amount of time you need.
I went off looking for burst grains to tell when it was done. Took over an hr to see any burst grains and ended up being mush after the PC cycle...
How I'm looking in the center of the kernel and it only took 25 mins for them to be cooked throughly.
This is because with oats you can't tell when the first grain is burst the hull hides what is really going on that is why you must cut them open to check regularly. This is one of the reasons I dont like oats.
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Schroomfairy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397189 - 12/23/19 10:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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But what if you do the 1 cup test and then would know for sure for your bag of oats. You would only need to perform the test on new bags. Once you figure out your specific bag parameters, your good to go with the 50 pds.
I must say that mycelium really do love oats.. Iβm not going to give up on them... just try to outsmart them
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Quote:
Schroomfairy said: I think a new tek should be developed with a 1 cup test of the grain. The test grain will then show what all of your grain will be like. Again, working with consistency is imperative for repeated success. I may redo BODs tek with this new strategy.
The single cup of grain is going to be a waste of time and energy and it's not going to prep the same as a big batch will. Big batch will take longer to cook. Just cut the grain open regularly and check the color in the center. It's very simple.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Quote:
Schroomfairy said: But what if you do the 1 cup test and then would know for sure for your bag of oats. You would only need to perform the test on new bags. Once you figure out your specific bag parameters, your good to go with the 50 pds.
I must say that mycelium really do love oats.. Iβm not going to give up on them... just try to outsmart them 
You don't need to overcomplicate cook them till they are ready and remove from heat and strain or else choose a method that is more gentle like a hot soak. Dont waste time, energy and grain and be surprised when it's different for every batch you make from the same bag.
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Edited by gizmo1 (12/23/19 10:59 AM)
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Schroomfairy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397219 - 12/23/19 11:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good point. Will do that tonight.
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KinokoKomodo
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you're looking way too far into this. it's grain. you put it in hot water until it's hydrated.
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: you're looking way too far into this. it's grain. you put it in hot water until it's hydrated.
I think he (like me) is still trying to figure out what hydrated looks like tho...
I think I got it this time... I dont know how I got my rye berries so perfect tho. They look bone dry in the outside and like 1 or 2 burst grains and the fungus love them!
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KinokoKomodo
γγγ·γ₯γ«γΌγ



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it looks just like properly cooked rice on the inside. if it's undercooked it's dry. that's why I've said more than once you need to break them open and see how they look on the inside. this is not science, it's middle school home economics. you put dry food in a pot and cook it until it's soft in the middle.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: you're looking way too far into this. it's grain. you put it in hot water until it's hydrated.
I think he (like me) is still trying to figure out what hydrated looks like tho...
I think I got it this time... I dont know how I got my rye berries so perfect tho. They look bone dry in the outside and like 1 or 2 burst grains and the fungus love them!
Well with the hull it wont be as easy to tell so cut them open. Start with a dry one so you know what a dry oats looks like inside. Then when hydrating continue to check. What you will notice is that the more it hydrates the less white it will be in the middle. I stop cooking once they are mostly grey in the middle with a little bit of white left in the center. They will continue to cook in the pressure cooker absorbing any extra moisture.
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Edited by gizmo1 (12/23/19 11:49 AM)
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Schroomfairy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397292 - 12/23/19 11:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the advice. What I learned is that BODS tech is flawed because it is not based solely on time but rather when they are done.
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gizmo1



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As with most things in life there is usually not a one size fits all for every situation. I'm sure the tek was made with the intention that people would adjust it to there own situation and what works best for them. Or basically think fir themselves. I can't speak on the tek personally as I haven't tried it but if Bod wrote it I'm sure it's a decent guideline for preparing oats, maybe with a little adjustment needed for your personal situation. Idk I do know there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: it looks just like properly cooked rice on the inside. if it's undercooked it's dry. that's why I've said more than once you need to break them open and see how they look on the inside. this is not science, it's middle school home economics. you put dry food in a pot and cook it until it's soft in the middle.
As a matter of fact it is science...
And you dont need to talk down anyone that's still trying to figure it out...
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KinokoKomodo
γγγ·γ₯γ«γΌγ



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Quote:
gizmo1 said: As with most things in life there is usually not a one size fits all for every situation. I'm sure the tek was made with the intention that people would adjust it to there own situation and what works best for them. Or basically think fir themselves. I can't speak on the tek personally as I haven't tried it but if Bod wrote it I'm sure it's a decent guideline for preparing oats, maybe with a little adjustment needed for your personal situation. Idk I do know there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Quote:
Schroomfairy said: Thanks for the advice. What I learned is that BODS tech is flawed because it is not based solely on time but rather when they are done.
no, it is not flawed. you are trying to reinvent a proven technique.
Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: it looks just like properly cooked rice on the inside. if it's undercooked it's dry. that's why I've said more than once you need to break them open and see how they look on the inside. this is not science, it's middle school home economics. you put dry food in a pot and cook it until it's soft in the middle.
As a matter of fact it is science...
And you dont need to talk down anyone that's still trying to figure it out...
no. cooking grain is not science. it is cooking 101. the fact of the matter is, if you can't figure out how to cook oat you need to start with learning how to cook.
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SpunkyMonkey88
Stranger



Registered: 10/08/19
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Quote:
KinokoKomodo said:
Quote:
gizmo1 said: As with most things in life there is usually not a one size fits all for every situation. I'm sure the tek was made with the intention that people would adjust it to there own situation and what works best for them. Or basically think fir themselves. I can't speak on the tek personally as I haven't tried it but if Bod wrote it I'm sure it's a decent guideline for preparing oats, maybe with a little adjustment needed for your personal situation. Idk I do know there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Quote:
Schroomfairy said: Thanks for the advice. What I learned is that BODS tech is flawed because it is not based solely on time but rather when they are done.
no, it is not flawed. you are trying to reinvent a proven technique.
Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:
KinokoKomodo said: it looks just like properly cooked rice on the inside. if it's undercooked it's dry. that's why I've said more than once you need to break them open and see how they look on the inside. this is not science, it's middle school home economics. you put dry food in a pot and cook it until it's soft in the middle.
As a matter of fact it is science...
And you dont need to talk down anyone that's still trying to figure it out...
no. cooking grain is not science. it is cooking 101. the fact of the matter is, if you can't figure out how to cook oat you need to start with learning how to cook.
Dude I'm not here to argue um just saying if you wanna comment then do it to help the dude out, no need to tell him how elementary you think the whole thing is...that doesn't help anyone...
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KinokoKomodo
γγγ·γ₯γ«γΌγ



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i'm suggesting he's looking at it with the wrong mindset, not trying to insult anyone.
how about getting a name for yourself before telling a senior member with experience what they are doing wrong? i grow clusters bigger than most people get their entire first proper flush. you would do well to listen to what i have to say. you've been registered here just barely long enough to be flushing your first run. there's a whole world to learn, and it would be a shame to run off everyone willing to help you with a brash arrogant attitude right off the bat.
Edited by KinokoKomodo (12/23/19 01:26 PM)
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Post deleted by SpunkyMonkey88
Reason for deletion: Unnecessary and negative
Edited by SpunkyMonkey88 (12/23/19 01:39 PM)
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Jive Ass Turkey
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I just boil for 25-30 min or so to where the outside is plump but the inside is still a bit dry. Drain for 10 min and then PC them without a foil cover. Few burst but nothing major.
I actually use a mix of oats, wbs, and rye using the same prep. I use the wbs because if fills some of the gaps oats leaves to speed up the colonization a bit. I use rye because I bought shitload of it and quit using it because it cultivates so damn slow compared to oats and wbs (wbs has consistently been the fastest)
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gizmo1



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Quote:
Jive Ass Turkey said: I just boil for 25-30 min or so to where the outside is plump but the inside is still a bit dry. Drain for 10 min and then PC them without a foil cover. Few burst but nothing major.
I actually use a mix of oats, wbs, and rye using the same prep. I use the wbs because if fills some of the gaps oats leaves to speed up the colonization a bit. I use rye because I bought shitload of it and quit using it because it cultivates so damn slow compared to oats and wbs (wbs has consistently been the fastest)
I'm glad that works for you I hate foil but recently started using it again I was getting a bit of mush in the bottom of my jars if heating the PC too fast. In impatient though.
I also like using a mix of grains. I've got wbs mixed with oats going right now. In a cultivation book I have I read to prep the grr grains seperate then mix before pcing. I just mix mine and prep together seems to work fine. I just remove from heat once I see a couple burst grains. Last batch I let it go a little long and got quit a few burst grains but they are still chugging along.
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Crackatoa
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397665 - 12/23/19 02:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I love mixing oats with WBS or Millet.
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san pedro guy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397687 - 12/23/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like to cook the oats with just enough water for the oats to hydrate themselves. If you restrict the amount of water available to them then there wonβt be enough water to OVERcook them. You donβt even have to worry about it happening because itβs impossible to over hydrate this way.
Yogi has a tek similar to how I make my grains. I think its called precision water oat tek or something...
I like to put some oats in a jar, then add some water, then pc. It was way faster (for me) to figure out how much water to add, than to waste 30-45 minutes of cooking, then drying for 8 hours, to find out it was cooked wrong. And much faster prep too
If you look at how how much water is in a pf jar, itβs easy to see myc doesnβt require a whole lot of water to grow, like bod says, stick to the dry side.
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gizmo1



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Quote:
san pedro guy said: I like to cook the oats with just enough water for the oats to hydrate themselves. If you restrict the amount of water available to them then there wonβt be enough water to OVERcook them. You donβt even have to worry about it happening because itβs impossible to over hydrate this way.
Yogi has a tek similar to how I make my grains. I think its called precision water oat tek or something...
I like to put some oats in a jar, then add some water, then pc. It was way faster (for me) to figure out how much water to add, than to waste 30-45 minutes of cooking, then drying for 8 hours, to find out it was cooked wrong. And much faster prep too
If you look at how how much water is in a pf jar, itβs easy to see myc doesnβt require a whole lot of water to grow, like bod says, stick to the dry side.
Are you talking about a no prep tek or are you actually boiling grains with just enough water to hydrate? I'm pretty sure I know what you are talking about but you have to be careful remember alot of new growers read this and they might try to boil with as little water as possible and end up with black grains lol.
Quote:
Crackatoa said: I love mixing oats with WBS or Millet.
Mixed grains rock.
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san pedro guy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397716 - 12/23/19 03:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Newbies need to be more careful reading and maybe you do to.
I clearly state that I put the oats and water in a jar then pc.
I also referenced yogiβs tek that has βfor dummysβ style instructions...he goes by weight, I go by eyeball lol
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gizmo1



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You said COOK the oats with just enough water. You understand how that sounds right I wouldn't have said anything if it didn't sound that way. I'm not here to judge or criticize anyone. You didn't say you like to put them in a har and PC until a later paragraph. This looks like you were talking about a different method. I knew what you meant and I read just fine thank you. Not so good at taking criticism are you? You immediately tried to blame others reading as the problem when YOU weren't clear enough. Regardless it's cool I have no reason to discuss it further have a nice day bud.
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san pedro guy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397759 - 12/23/19 03:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea I talk about what I do and why it works then the second parts goes into the βhowβ.
Itβs not meant to be read as individual statements but rather as one whole post.
I wasnβt writing a tek or it would be much more detailed.
gluck op, just try different things until you find something that works well for you, youβll get there
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gizmo1



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Quote:
san pedro guy said: Yea I talk about what I do and why it works then the second parts goes into the βhowβ.
Itβs not meant to be read as individual statements but rather as one whole post.
I wasnβt writing a tek or it would be much more detailed.
gluck op, just try different things until you find something that works well for you, youβll get there
I understand I was just trying to give some friendly advice I'm glad this didn't turn into a battle of the egos as it often can around here. I've been around long enough to see some pretty big egos and I've also also fallen victim to my own ego. I dont want to be that guy anymore and especially this close to the holidays. Just regular happy ol me lol.
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san pedro guy
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Re: Oat help [Re: gizmo1]
#26397895 - 12/23/19 04:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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cheers to that!
Merry Christmas!
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Merry Xmas I love you all!
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gizmo1



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Quote:
san pedro guy said: cheers to that!
Merry Christmas!
Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said: Merry Xmas I love you all!
Merry Christmas guys
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Liquefy420
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Apparently, endospores are notoriously hard to kill. From a lab studier:
B. A Food Scientist was trying to kill spores that were present on rolled oats (the stuff you use to make oatmeal cereal). She tried radiation, ozone, superheated air β all no good. Finally, she soaked the oats in cold water with a little glucose for about 5 hours, and then heated the water to 80oC. After evaporation and drying, the spores were gone! What happened here? What role does the water play in this process? What role does the glucose play?
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KinokoKomodo
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this is why you do a 24 hour soak in water prior to boiling and pressure cooking. the soak gives mold spores and bacteria time to germinate and grow. live growing contams are FAR easier to kill than dormant ones.
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ManifoldPrime
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@KinokoKomodo, just FYI, you might be putting out misinformation/ an unconfirmed hypothesis. I also soak, but its for hydration, not germinating endospores.
Please do check this thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21604725
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KinokoKomodo
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Quote:
ManifoldPrime said: @KinokoKomodo, just FYI, you might be putting out misinformation/ an unconfirmed hypothesis. I also soak, but its for hydration, not germinating endospores.
Please do check this thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21604725
you don't soak to hydrate. that's why you boil your grains. 24 hours soaking prior to boiling the grain isto germinate any contams, making them easier to kill in a pressure cooker.
grain can be cooked all the way through by boiling alone. the 24 hour soak has absolutely no bearing in cooking a grain for hydration. grain is grain. you put it in hot water long enough, it hydrates....it doesn't even make sense that 24 hours of soaking is to hydrate when the grain is not fully hydrated after the soak...you still have to boil.
i've done grain runs without 24 hour soak....straight from bone dry to boiling, then in the pc. they all contamed, even the un-inoculated control jars from the same run.
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ManifoldPrime
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Did you *actually* read the thread I posted? Thats not why you soak. As per Bod's post on that thread:
Quote:
autoclaves are tested with heat resistant bacillus endospores to verify they work http://www.gru.edu/dentalmedicine/oralbio/sterilization.php
I've done my own comparison on contam rates on soak vs simmer, at least for WBS, and my contam rate for all controls was zero for both. You do not need to "germinate" endospores, as they will multiply rapidly and make more endospores than what you started with on a soak. If what you were saying was true, no one would do simmer teks. but most of the TCs do, as they prefer the quicker turnaround. I soak because I dont mind planning my cook in advance.
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KinokoKomodo
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oat is FAR more difficult to pc sterilize. it has a recommended 2 hour cook time, according to every single guide. i did not see perfect sterilization until i increased that time to 2 hours 15 min....and to do that i had to raise the water level, use a wire rack in the pc, and eliminate my horizontal rop row of jars to accommodate the longer cook time. we're both talking about delicious fruit, but you use apples and i use oranges π
i read it.
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ManifoldPrime
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grain is grain, the mechanism you are describing is the same. Cook times obviously vary, but it has more to do with thermal mass and endospore count - which a soak is probably only going to increase vs a simmer.
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KinokoKomodo
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dormant organisms don't multiply π
larger grains are more difficult to sterilize. please stop arguing about a type of grain in which you have absolutely no experience!
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ManifoldPrime
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Quote:
dormant organisms don't multiply π
Okay now I KNOW you just skimmed that thread. Endospore bacteria can germinate in minutes if water is available. The point of cooking is to sterilise ALL endospores and mold spores.
Quote:
larger grains are more difficult to sterilize
I conceded that. Doesn't affect the soak to germinate debate one iota. Soaking to germinate endospores, whether on WBS or oats or whatever, is pointless. after 24 hours those germinated poplulations are gonna form more endospores. bacteria multiply exponentially, and some of those bacteria will themselves become endospores. There hasnt been any conclusive evidence on this because no one has done counts of grainwater endospores after just being hydrated vs 20-24 hour soaking.
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KinokoKomodo
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Quote:
ManifoldPrime said:
Quote:
dormant organisms don't multiply π
Okay now I KNOW you just skimmed that thread. Endospore bacteria can germinate in minutes if water is available. The point of cooking is to sterilise ALL endospores and mold spores.
Quote:
larger grains are more difficult to sterilize
I conceded that. Doesn't affect the soak to germinate debate one iota. Soaking to germinate endospores, whether on WBS or oats or whatever, is pointless. after 24 hours those germinated poplulations are gonna form more endospores. bacteria multiply exponentially, and some of those bacteria will themselves become endospores. There hasnt been any conclusive evidence on this because no one has done counts of grainwater endospores after just being hydrated vs 20-24 hour soaking.
the point of cooking is to hydrate. the point of PRESSURE cooking is to sterilize. i believe this is the confusion.
if the point of cooking is to hydrate, and soaking doesn't germinate endospores, there is no need to soak, so you're being redundant. see the issue here. you soak to germinate the trouble mold spores, and endospores. i have done actual control/variable tests with oat to see the difference between soak vs no soak, 2hr vs 2:15 pc time, etc. in attempt to reduce prep time. until you have done so with a grain size as large as oat, which is more difficult to sterilize, please refrain from telling me the evidence i have seen is wrong.
talking about i'm spreading misinformation because you read a thing that disagrees once.....put up by doing, or go home.
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ManifoldPrime
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I have been reading oat teks in prep to actually doing and I have not noticed a difference in cook time at all.
Quote:
please refrain from telling me the evidence i have seen is wrong.
I reserve my right to state my argument, and you should be aware that you *Gasp* could actually be just engaging in confirmation bias.
I'd love for a TC to weigh in.
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Hungryghost03
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Quote:
Crackatoa said: Personally, I bring water to a boil, take off burner, pour in oats, cover. Let sit for 45 min. Pour into strainer and let drip for awhile. Put in fridge overnight next day, ready to go. I feel like bringing the oats to a boil and then letting them hydrate to long and causing issues
Hey man, sorry I know this is a pretty old thread... But to clarify, this method is different to Bods Tek, right? And you're suggesting that soaking in boiled water in better than actually boiling the oats in water?
Bods Tek states: " 30m to get oats to a boil, 30-45m to boil the oats"
This is what I've been doing, although I only boil for a MAX 30 minutes otherwise I get loads of burst grains even if I dial it down to a simmer. Usually at 25 mins, the oats inside the hulls are no longer white but have that gluey, translucent look to them (which is what ya want, right?). This does leave me with burst grains though, even after 25 mins, and have been having hit or miss success with my grows using this method (though I've not tried other grains yet as I've only recently acquired my PC).
So I'm a bit confused, do you agree with Bods approach or do you think it's better to boil water first then let oats sit in boiled water for 45 mins with heat off?
Also, I usually lay them out to dry for a few hours then put em in the pot again and place in the fridge. The lid of the pan gets condensation which obviously indicates moisture. Should I leave the lid off or like, wipe away the excess condensation from the underside of the lid, or am I just over thinking this?
Getting frustrated with not knowing where my issues are coming from with recent grows and I wanna make sure I get every step right!
Thanks
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