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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Oat help [Re: KinokoKomodo]
    #26725940 - 06/07/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Did you *actually* read the thread I posted? Thats not why you soak. As per Bod's post on that thread:
Quote:

autoclaves are tested with heat resistant bacillus endospores to verify they work
http://www.gru.edu/dentalmedicine/oralbio/sterilization.php




I've done my own comparison on contam rates on soak vs simmer, at least for WBS, and my contam rate for all controls was zero for both. You do not need to "germinate" endospores, as they will multiply rapidly and make more endospores than what you started with on a soak. If what you were saying was true, no one would do simmer teks. but most of the TCs do, as they prefer the quicker turnaround. I soak because I dont mind planning my cook in advance.


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OfflineKinokoKomodo
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Re: Oat help [Re: ManifoldPrime]
    #26726015 - 06/07/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

oat is FAR more difficult to pc sterilize. it has a recommended 2 hour cook time, according to every single guide. i did not see perfect sterilization until i increased that time to 2 hours 15 min....and to do that i had to raise the water level, use a wire rack in the pc, and eliminate my horizontal rop row of jars to accommodate the longer cook time. we're both talking about delicious fruit, but you use apples and i use oranges 😉

i read it.


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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Oat help [Re: KinokoKomodo]
    #26726445 - 06/07/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

grain is grain, the mechanism you are describing is the same. Cook times obviously vary, but it has more to do with thermal mass and endospore count - which a soak is probably only going to increase vs a simmer.


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OfflineKinokoKomodo
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Re: Oat help [Re: ManifoldPrime]
    #26726903 - 06/07/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

dormant organisms don't multiply 😂

larger grains are more difficult to sterilize. please stop arguing about a type of grain in which you have absolutely no experience!


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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Oat help [Re: KinokoKomodo]
    #26726934 - 06/07/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dormant organisms don't multiply 😂




Okay now I KNOW you just skimmed that thread. Endospore bacteria can germinate in minutes if water is available. The point of cooking is to sterilise ALL endospores and mold spores.
Quote:

larger grains are more difficult to sterilize




I conceded that. Doesn't affect the soak to germinate debate one iota. Soaking to germinate endospores, whether on WBS or oats or whatever, is pointless. after 24 hours those germinated poplulations are gonna form more endospores. bacteria multiply exponentially, and some of those bacteria will themselves become endospores. There hasnt been any conclusive evidence on this because no one has done counts of grainwater endospores after just being hydrated vs 20-24 hour soaking.


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OfflineKinokoKomodo
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Re: Oat help [Re: ManifoldPrime]
    #26726971 - 06/07/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ManifoldPrime said:
Quote:

dormant organisms don't multiply 😂




Okay now I KNOW you just skimmed that thread. Endospore bacteria can germinate in minutes if water is available. The point of cooking is to sterilise ALL endospores and mold spores.
Quote:

larger grains are more difficult to sterilize




I conceded that. Doesn't affect the soak to germinate debate one iota. Soaking to germinate endospores, whether on WBS or oats or whatever, is pointless. after 24 hours those germinated poplulations are gonna form more endospores. bacteria multiply exponentially, and some of those bacteria will themselves become endospores. There hasnt been any conclusive evidence on this because no one has done counts of grainwater endospores after just being hydrated vs 20-24 hour soaking.



the point of cooking is to hydrate. the point of PRESSURE cooking is to sterilize. i believe this is the confusion.

if the point of cooking is to hydrate, and soaking doesn't germinate endospores, there is no need to soak, so you're being redundant. see the issue here. you soak to germinate the trouble mold spores, and endospores. i have done actual control/variable tests with oat to see the difference between soak vs no soak, 2hr vs 2:15 pc time, etc. in attempt to reduce prep time. until you have done so with a grain size as large as oat, which is more difficult to sterilize, please refrain from telling me the evidence i have seen is wrong.

talking about i'm spreading misinformation because you read a thing that disagrees once.....put up by doing, or go home.


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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Oat help [Re: KinokoKomodo]
    #26726994 - 06/07/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I have been reading oat teks in prep to actually doing and I have not noticed a difference in cook time at all.

Quote:

please refrain from telling me the evidence i have seen is wrong.



I reserve my right to state my argument, and you should be aware that you *Gasp* could actually be just engaging in confirmation bias.

I'd love for a TC to weigh in.


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OfflineHungryghost03
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Re: Oat help [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27912662 - 08/21/22 05:16 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
Personally, I bring water to a boil, take off burner, pour in oats, cover. Let sit for 45 min. Pour into strainer and let drip for awhile. Put in fridge overnight next day, ready to go. I feel like bringing the oats to a boil and then letting them hydrate to long and causing issues




Hey man, sorry I know this is a pretty old thread... But to clarify, this method is different to Bods Tek, right? And you're suggesting that soaking in boiled water in better than actually boiling the oats in water?

Bods Tek states:
" 30m to get oats to a boil, 30-45m to boil the oats"

This is what I've been doing, although I only boil for a MAX 30 minutes otherwise I get loads of burst grains even if I dial it down to a simmer. Usually at 25 mins, the oats inside the hulls are no longer white but have that gluey, translucent look to them (which is what ya want, right?). This does leave me with burst grains though, even after 25 mins, and have been having hit or miss success with my grows using this method (though I've not tried other grains yet as I've only recently acquired my PC).

So I'm a bit confused, do you agree with Bods approach or do you think it's better to boil water first then let oats sit in boiled water for 45 mins with heat off?

Also, I usually lay them out to dry for a few hours then put em in the pot again and place in the fridge. The lid of the pan gets condensation which obviously indicates moisture. Should I leave the lid off or like, wipe away the excess condensation from the underside of the lid, or am I just over thinking this?

Getting frustrated with not knowing where my issues are coming from with recent grows and I wanna make sure I get every step right!

Thanks :smile:


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