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OfflineMetoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26419481 - 01/06/20 03:01 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Refusing to play Pelosi's delay game, the Senate is moving to dismiss the articles of impeachment:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-senators-introduce-resolution-to-dismiss-articles-of-impeachment-amid-battle-with-pelosi

Nice


Edited by Metoo (01/06/20 03:01 PM)


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
    #26419540 - 01/06/20 03:38 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

“In the real world, when a prosecutor brings a case but refuses to try it, the court has the ability and the defendant has the right – the constitutional right, I might add -- to have those articles, those indictments, those charges dismissed," Hawley said in a speech on the Senate floor. "That is precisely the action that I am proposing today.”




What hypocrisy.

In the real world, trials have witnesses called to testify too, which is the issue. 

We all want a real trial, except for the Republicans and whoever they can get to repeat their talking points that come through FOXNEWS.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26419548 - 01/06/20 03:48 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

The whole thing has been a joke since day one, it's over.  If Pelosi had anything, the trial would be in process. She obviously has nothing.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: qman]
    #26419564 - 01/06/20 03:59 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

The house has articles of impeachment.  That is not nothing.

The only way to get to the bottom of it satisfactorily is to have a trial.  With witnesses. 

But the senate has sole power of trying impeachment, so, I guess the system is set up for this sort of corruption.  What are ya gonna do.

You can pretend there is nothing, I guess, without actually examining things with the precision that a trial would.  You can do that.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26419592 - 01/06/20 04:21 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

It's up to Pelosi at this point, so your frustration should be with her and not the current process. 

So what do you think is delaying the trial?


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: qman] * 2
    #26419601 - 01/06/20 04:26 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Bolton want to testify , Moscow Mitch knows something like that  could cause a split in the party .  Trump is guilty , a serious trial will display that . It’s pretty obvious ...


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26419616 - 01/06/20 04:36 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Of course he’s guilty. The facts in the case are clear.


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods]
    #26419657 - 01/06/20 05:00 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

They don’t want witnesses because no one will lie for trump anymore . Defending trump under oath as a witness means you tell the truth and say ya he’s guilty , or lie and go to jail .


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: qman]
    #26419666 - 01/06/20 05:05 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's up to Pelosi at this point, so your frustration should be with her and not the current process. 

So what do you think is delaying the trial?




She's trying to influence the Senate trial in that she wants there to be a real one.  The senate has dug in it's heels and won't promise to hold a real trial.  The senate leader decided the outcome weeks ago.

As far as I know, the senate is perfectly allowed to hold a kangaroo court.  Likewise, as far as I know the house of reps is fully allowed to hold a kangaroo impeachment.  That's what sole power means, to me.  The process in both houses is not clearly and precisely defined so I guess it's what ever the house says it is.

I hope Im missing something, something that would make it the case that the houses had to hold credible proceedings. 

The one redeeming factor in all this is democracy.  The people should be able to decide if they want a bunch of grifters in their houses of congress, and who the grifters are.  It ain't much but that's the situation.

I have no doubt that the house of reps credibly demonstrated abuses of power enough that charges are warranted.  The ambassador testified Trump was tying White House visit to the Biden investigation, which he was attempting to surreptitiously initiate, furthermore, the ambassador believed the president tied the military aid to the investigations.  That's some seriously fucked up shit, military aid was indeed being withheld contrary to United States policy.  Very suspicious.  What else could prez decide to alter according to his whims rather than the workings of his government? 

When the government decides to do something, it's not cool to have some rogue agent hijack it for their personal games.

The senate is clearly not willing to credibly deal with these charges.

The people will decide who will lead them into the future. 

The people picked Barabus too, since the Trump impeachment gets comparisons with the Jesus trial.  The people were incited by the pharisees to make Jesus sound offensive to their religion and picked Barabus in a fit of passion.

I guess maybe it is somewhat comparable, if you shift the characters around.


Edited by JohnRainy (01/06/20 05:11 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26419705 - 01/06/20 05:27 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

The Senate will deal with the charges IF Pelosi decides to proceed.

Maybe Pelosi is deliberately sabotaging the process because it was political stunt from the very beginning. If someone believes they have the evidence, they want their day in court ASAP. Obviously, that isn't the case today.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: qman]
    #26419734 - 01/06/20 05:46 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

There're not going to get their day in court.  The outcome was decided before the trial even began.

On what grounds do you claim the impeachment was merely a political ploy?


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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: qman]
    #26419905 - 01/06/20 07:37 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:


Maybe Pelosi is deliberately sabotaging the process because it was political stunt from the very beginning. If someone believes they have the evidence, they want their day in court ASAP. Obviously, that isn't the case today.



It's definitely not because one of the jurors has said they will be working closely with the accused and another is on record saying that they won't be an impartial juror.


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OfflineMetoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy] * 2
    #26420456 - 01/07/20 06:38 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
There're not going to get their day in court.  The outcome was decided before the trial even began.

On what grounds do you claim the impeachment was merely a political ploy?



Correct, the outcome was already decided and well known to everyone when Pelosi got mobbed by the left wing of her party to initiate the process without bipartisan support - the House was always going to impeach and the Senate to acquit. Because the outcome was pre-determined the Dems objective was not to get rid of Trump but rather to embarrass and weaken him - a purely partisan, political ploy.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26423707 - 01/08/20 10:11 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I thought it was because there was evidence he was abusing his power.  The House of Reps made a case demonstrating that.  The ambassador testified that Trump tied a White House visit to the infamous investigation he was inappropriately trying to trigger, and that he believed the military aid was conditioned that way as well.  Furthermore, the White House obstructed the investigation and ignored subpoenas.

Why do you never address the facts of the case but always just say what republicans say, that it's only because the dems are out to get him? 

It's really weird.  You'd make a good senator.

The Senate is not going to demonstrate any innocence regarding these charges.  No witnesses. Just a kangaroo court.  If Trump is innocent, it would be most powerful to have the witnesses come and testify to that fact.  Instead of doing that, they are not going to address any of the charges substantively, just say he's innocent, just say it's a witch-hunt, and there will be people who repeat it. 

I guess they figure that's a better out than changing the rules and dismissing the whole thing.\

McConnell Says He Will Proceed on Impeachment Trial Without Witness Deal



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26423731 - 01/08/20 10:29 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
The ambassador testified that Trump tied a White House visit to the infamous investigation he was inappropriately trying to trigger...



I'm not saying the investigation wasn't political, but Biden certainly appears corrupt.  Is a president not allowed to go after corruption?  I don't know.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26423758 - 01/08/20 10:54 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Politicians with executive authority should be completely hands off any investigation where they have conflicts of interest. They really should be hands off any investigation. This should be a no brainer. You take it to the justice department or DA, and then you stay out of it.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods]
    #26423761 - 01/08/20 11:07 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

That would be ideal.  But they won't go after an establishment politician who's currently the democratic front runner.  They'd go after Sanders (if he were corrupt).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26423765 - 01/08/20 11:15 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

That claim is demonstrably false. The last democratic nominee was under investigation for most of the time she was running. Actually, both candidates were under investigation in 2016, but the FBI denied Trump was under investigation, while FBI agents were leaking stories to Rudy Guiliani about Hillary.

If the president doesn’t think his justice department is willing to do its job, then he needs to fix that problem, not freelance investigations to private lawyers and foreign countries.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (01/08/20 11:31 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods]
    #26423773 - 01/08/20 11:28 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

They weren't going to find anything on Hillary - she was the establishment's leading contender at the time.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26423776 - 01/08/20 11:36 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
The ambassador testified that Trump tied a White House visit to the infamous investigation he was inappropriately trying to trigger...



I'm not saying the investigation wasn't political, but Biden certainly appears corrupt.  Is a president not allowed to go after corruption?  I don't know.




Not in the way he did it.  He surreptitiously pursued it in a personal way, using his position as president as leverage, and it was against a political opponent!  Heads of state are supposed to avoid even the appearance of conflict of interest.

If the president was concerned about corruption, he could have publicly said so and followed the norms of such a pursuit.  He did this secretly.

The freaking pentagon didn't know what the hell was going on with the aid!  You don't not keep your military in the loop. 

He could have easily said he's concerned about giving aid to Ukraine because of the corruption he suspects.  And what was with the demand for a press conference announcing it?  You don't need that to do an investigation.

Biden can be as corrupt as the day is long and it doesn't take away from what Trump did.  They are both likely scumbags who deserve to be scrutinized and held to account.  Like that will ever happen.

Trump says some distracting thing and I hear people start talking about it.  I don't know why.  If Biden leveraged Burisma to give his brat kid a fake job, that doesn't make what Trump did OK, and he's the one who is president and should be going down now.  If Biden did something wrong, he should be held accountable too.


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