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koods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26396261 - 12/22/19 07:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hamilton argued the senate should be jurors because they are not beholden to the electorate. Kinda renders what Hamilton said about impeachment moot since the system he designed doesn’t even exist anymore
It’s pretty clear if you read him that with an elected senate he would have chosen the Supreme Court to try impeachments
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/22/19 07:53 PM)
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koods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods]
#26396264 - 12/22/19 07:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you think people think the house process was unfair just wait until you have a trial without any witnesses. Even the stupidest American knows witness testimony is what makes a trial a trial.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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JohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods]
#26396295 - 12/22/19 08:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hamilton argued the senate should be jurors because they are not beholden to the electorate. Kinda renders what Hamilton said about impeachment moot since the system he designed doesn’t even exist anymore
Oh.
Yeah I guess that does change things.
Im just waiting to see if the senate can demonstrate Trump's innocence as convincingly as the Congress demonstrated his guilt.
I'd really, really like to see him answer for the white house obstructing congress, specifically the ignoring of subpoenas.
That just blows my mind that they could even attempt such a thing, and Im not hearing a lot of noise about it. It's allowing the executive branch to be lawless, which Trump likes to say he has the right to be as president.
It's just fucking crazy. How can anyone support a president who argues he can shoot you and get away with it? Imagine if Obama had argued that!
President Donald Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has defied a subpoena issued as part of the investigation led by the House Foreign Affairs, Intelligence, and Oversight Committees
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396554 - 12/22/19 11:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You said "the military aid was so vital to his country". I'm saying it's not really so vital.
It's vital to his country in the sense that he claims they are at war.
Quote:
JohnRainy said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: They are at war. But they managed to negotiate a ceasefire without US involvement and without US Javelins. And with a ceasefire, Javelins are no longer necessary.
Is that the president of Ukraine's position? They don't need this military aid anymore?
I was simply pointing out that I don't think javelins are "vital". Zelensky ran on a platform of peace with Donbass.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396559 - 12/22/19 11:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Exactly. There is no legal issue with party affiliation of the members and how it plays out in how they vote. The congress is following the law, and the senate is following the law. Why are people complaining about the partisan aspect of the process? Are they butthurt Trump got reprimanded so they are trying to invalidate it?
So you will be ok with the Senate dismissing the Congress impeachment motion?
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JohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26396582 - 12/23/19 12:24 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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If they demonstrate as much innocence as the congress has demonstrated guilt, I will be fine with it. Even if the vote is partisan.
Im afraid the senate is not planning to hold a real trial though. That's the word anyway. I feel the congress did a real investigation so at this point they hold the high ground.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396622 - 12/23/19 01:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: If they demonstrate as much innocence as the congress has demonstrated guilt, I will be fine with it. Even if the vote is partisan.
Im afraid the senate is not planning to hold a real trial though. That's the word anyway. I feel the congress did a real investigation so at this point they hold the high ground.
I was asking if you are happy to accept that the Senate may decide to dismiss the impeachment motion on the grounds that it was not bipartisan, without going through the trial. After all the Senate is seen as a democratic expression of the people. Whatever it decides is too. If it votes to dismiss the Congess motion, that's a democratic expression of the people, as much as such a thing can be expressed within the system.
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JohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26396635 - 12/23/19 01:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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No I would not find that satisfying.
The senate may be a democratic expression of the people, but it is bound by the law. There is no law that can be pointed to that invalidates the findings of the congress on a concept of partisanship like this. The congress comes to resolutions by majority vote, regardless of the partisan make up that may take. And it's legitimate.
The senate must respect that and hold a trial. And I hope they hold an honest one. But I know they won't.
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JohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396643 - 12/23/19 01:24 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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It must be Trump's influence that you entertain such thoughts. They're in the halls of power now so they can do anything regardless of what the law may be.
Trump thinks he should be able to shoot people and get away wth it.
This is the place the United States has come to.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396657 - 12/23/19 01:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: No I would not find that satisfying.
The senate may be a democratic expression of the people, but it is bound by the law. There is no law that can be pointed to that invalidates the findings of the congress on a concept of partisanship like this. The congress comes to resolutions by majority vote, regardless of the partisan make up that may take. And it's legitimate.
The senate must respect that and hold a trial. And I hope they hold an honest one. But I know they won't.
This is not a legal process but rather a political one. There is a view held by some that, based on the writings of the Fathers, unless an impeachment motion is bipartisan it is void. Senate is seen as a democratic expression of the people and may at its discretion side with this view and dismiss the impeachment motion as void. I mean there would be a vote on it so that all Senators will be able to articulate their position, to make the process completely democratic. That should be fine by you - a democratic decision by the elected representatives voting along party lines?
Edited by Metoo (12/23/19 01:40 AM)
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JohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo] 2
#26396676 - 12/23/19 01:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interpretations of founding fathers literature is not the law.
The constitution states that congress has the sole power to impeach. That's what they did.
The law is clear. The senate must hold a trial, and that's it.
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JohnRainy
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396691 - 12/23/19 02:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fox News had a lawyer named Robert Ray come on and say that the senate should ignore the impeachment.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26396696 - 12/23/19 02:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Interpretations of founding fathers literature is not the law.
The constitution states that congress has the sole power to impeach. That's what they did.
The law is clear. The senate must hold a trial, and that's it.
No the Senate does not have to hold the trial. After Robert Ray: The Constitution says only that the Senate has the "sole power to try all impeachments." (Art. I, sec. 3., cl. 6). That doesn't mean that it has to exercise that power. And there's nothing in the Constitution that says otherwise.
Congress has the sole power to impeach and used it. Senate is under no obligation to hold a trial. It can decide to dismiss the impeachment notion. The Senate is seen as a democratic expression of the people. Whatever it decides is too. If it votes to dismiss the impeachment motion, that's a democratic expression of the people, as much as such a thing can be expressed within the system.
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Brian Jones
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo] 3
#26396860 - 12/23/19 06:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Please try to remember that the definition of the Congress is the Senate and the House of Representatives.
It's a common mistake to think the Congress is the House, but it's an uninformed one, like mixing up impeaching the President and convicting him of impeachment.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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koods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Brian Jones]
#26396889 - 12/23/19 07:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seven pages of metoo saying the same ahistorical thing over and over. Trump has been impeached. There is nothing in the constitution about bipartisanship. Time to move on.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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starfire_xes
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods] 1
#26396958 - 12/23/19 08:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trump should be thrown out of office immediately. After all, Eric Swallwell and Shitty Schiff saw that all the evidence that made Trump guilty. After all, the steel dossier was the key to get rid of trump. And Muller--he went down with the Special Prosecutor probe, too bad for that.
They should get Trump now--a bunch of butt--hurt deep state government people, and some Trump hating law professors testify that they know Trump was guilty. So where is all that evidence? I want to see it. Maybe the media will have a bunch of BOMBSHELL REPORTS that will prove that Trump is guilty.
I can wait to see them!!   
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christopera
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: starfire_xes] 2
#26396989 - 12/23/19 08:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The butt hurt around Trump's impeachment is enjoyable.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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qman
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26397009 - 12/23/19 08:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Interpretations of founding fathers literature is not the law.
The constitution states that congress has the sole power to impeach. That's what they did.
The law is clear. The senate must hold a trial, and that's it.
A trial would be a big waste of time the just expose the baseless claims against Trump.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods] 1
#26397249 - 12/23/19 11:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Seven pages of metoo saying the same ahistorical thing over and over. Trump has been impeached. There is nothing in the constitution about bipartisanship. Time to move on.
Feel free to move on
Edited by Metoo (12/23/19 11:28 AM)
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koods
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: qman]
#26397257 - 12/23/19 11:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
JohnRainy said: Interpretations of founding fathers literature is not the law.
The constitution states that congress has the sole power to impeach. That's what they did.
The law is clear. The senate must hold a trial, and that's it.
A trial would be a big waste of time the just expose the baseless claims against Trump.
Which is it? A waste of time or an exposé?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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