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koods
Ribbit



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Dude come on. Hillary Clinton is one of the most investigated people on earth. There has been no reluctance to investigate her. Manufacturing Clinton investigations was an electoral strategy pursued by the GOP Congress for a half decade before the 2016 election .
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy]
#26423783 - 01/08/20 11:41 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Agreed.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26423800 - 01/09/20 12:07 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Why do you never address the facts of the case but always just say what republicans say, that it's only because the dems are out to get him?
This thread is focused on the constitutionality of the Dems effort to impeach Trump through a partisan motion (I should know - I have started it). From this angle the strength of evidence against him is irrelevant beyond a trivial observation it was not sufficient to convince a single Republican to support the impeachment push.
On the Trump 2020 thread which focuses on the next election I extensively discussed the merits of the abuse of power allegations against Trump. On 27/12 I even asked you, JohnRainy, some direct questions about the role of Bidens in the whole saga but, unless I missed your answers, you have ignored me
Edited by Metoo (01/09/20 12:19 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26423804 - 01/09/20 12:30 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Except there is no requirement that impeachment be bipartisan. The entire question if an impeachment is unconstitutional is meaningless anyways since impeachment is not subject to judicial review.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: koods]
#26423806 - 01/09/20 12:34 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Except there is no requirement that impeachment be bipartisan. The entire question if an impeachment is unconstitutional is meaningless anyways since impeachment is not subject to judicial review.
If you are considering the topic of this thread meaningless feel free to move on
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26423814 - 01/09/20 12:47 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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What I’m saying is, in practice, there is no such thing as an unconstitutional impeachment. Impeachment powers are completely reserved for the house and senate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_v._United_States
Quote:
The court's decision was unanimous, but four separate opinions were published. The majority opinion, by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, held that the courts may not review the impeachment and trial of a federal officer because the Constitution reserves that function to a coordinate political branch. Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution gives the Senate the "sole power to try all impeachments." Because of the word sole it is clear that the judicial branch was not to be included. Furthermore, because the word try was originally understood to include factfinding committees, there was a textually demonstrable commitment to give broad discretion to the Senate in impeachments.
Furthermore the Framers believed that representatives of the people should try impeachments, and the Court was too small to justly try impeachments. Also, the judicial branch is "checked" by impeachments, so judicial involvement in impeachments might violate the doctrine of the separation of powers.
The Court further ruled that involving the judiciary would prevent finality without clear remedy and bias post-impeachment criminal or civil prosecutions, which the Constitution explicitly allows.
Edited by koods (01/09/20 12:52 AM)
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Tantrika
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Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
JohnRainy said: The ambassador testified that Trump tied a White House visit to the infamous investigation he was inappropriately trying to trigger...
I'm not saying the investigation wasn't political, but Biden certainly appears corrupt. Is a president not allowed to go after corruption? I don't know.
Do not doubt that Biden is corrupt and/or was corrupt in the Obama administration but does he actually hold any sort of political office anymore, or has this been pursuit of a US citizen for corruption?
Do not expect him to get elected, so what is it that he is corrupting at this point?
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Enlil
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo] 3
#26424071 - 01/09/20 07:27 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Metoo said:
Quote:
koods said: Except there is no requirement that impeachment be bipartisan. The entire question if an impeachment is unconstitutional is meaningless anyways since impeachment is not subject to judicial review.
If you are considering the topic of this thread meaningless feel free to move on
He's not saying it's meaningless. He's challenging the validity of your argument by attacking the premise. Your premise is incorrect.
Assuming it was 100% partisan, that would not make it unconstitutional in any way. You've yet to provide any authority whatsoever for the notion that the constitution requires bipartisanship for any purpose whatsoever.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Tantrika] 1
#26424388 - 01/09/20 10:58 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said: Do not doubt that Biden is corrupt and/or was corrupt in the Obama administration but does he actually hold any sort of political office anymore, or has this been pursuit of a US citizen for corruption?
Do not expect him to get elected, so what is it that he is corrupting at this point?
His corruption was using his office for personal gain.
People should know about that if he's running for President, and he's currently the leading Demcratic candidate.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Enlil]
#26424517 - 01/09/20 12:03 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Metoo said:
Quote:
koods said: Except there is no requirement that impeachment be bipartisan. The entire question if an impeachment is unconstitutional is meaningless anyways since impeachment is not subject to judicial review.
If you are considering the topic of this thread meaningless feel free to move on
He's not saying it's meaningless. He's challenging the validity of your argument by attacking the premise.
No. He said: "The entire question if an impeachment is unconstitutional is meaningless..." which challenges the relevance of the thread dedicated to assessing whether the Dems have abused their power by pursuing bipartisan impeachment.
Quote:
Enlil said: Your premise is incorrect.
Assuming it was 100% partisan, that would not make it unconstitutional in any way. You've yet to provide any authority whatsoever for the notion that the constitution requires bipartisanship for any purpose whatsoever.
The thread contributors have expressed a range of opinions on this and you are entitled to yours
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Psilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo] 3
#26424582 - 01/09/20 12:33 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Can you you quote the part of the constitution that requires the impeachment process to be a partisan process ? If not what he said isn’t an opinion , it’s a just fact you can’t dispute, and that makes this thread 10 pages of irrelevant bullshit .
Edited by Psilynut2 (01/09/20 12:40 PM)
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Psilynut2]
#26424596 - 01/09/20 12:41 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Can you you quote the part of the constitution that requires the impeachment process to be a partisan process ? If not what he said isn’t an opinion , it’s a just fact you can’t dispute.
Please follow the discussion on the first few pages of this thread - you will find both personal opinions and links to articles written by lawyers, invoking the Federalist Papers as well as direct quotes from Alexander Hamilton.
No problem, pleased to be able to help :-).
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Psilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26424604 - 01/09/20 12:44 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Are you going to quote the part of the constitution or not ? Should be easy .
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#26424653 - 01/09/20 01:08 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Are you going to quote the part of the constitution or not ? Should be easy .
Please put some effort into reviewing what has already been posted on this thread. It should sharpen your critical thinking so you are able to ask some more nuanced questions and not just one-liners.
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Psilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26424665 - 01/09/20 01:13 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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I have , did someone else quote that part of the constitution ? Did I miss it ? It’s really the only relevant question here . It either says it or it doesn’t . Some guy saying I think it should be this way is meaningless . When someone gives you their opinion about the 2nd do you just agree or do you say where in the hell does it say that whats so hard to understand about shall not be infringed ?
Edited by Psilynut2 (01/09/20 01:18 PM)
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Psilynut2]
#26424688 - 01/09/20 01:23 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: I have , did someone else quote that part of the constitution ? Did I miss it ? It’s really the only relevant question here . It either says it or it doesn’t . Some guy saying I think it should be this way is meaningless . When someone gives you their opinion about the 2nd do you just agree or do you say we’re in the hell does it say that what so hard to understand about shall not be infringed ?
Various contributors quoted from the Federalist Papers and directly Alexander Hamilton. Two of the linked articles written by lawyers claimed that, in the dynamic balance of power between the branches, the Fathers specifically did not allow for Presidents to be removed through an impeachment motion orchestrated by the opposition party contemporaneously holding numeric advantage in the House.
I do not understand the last sentence in your post above - please re-phrase.
Edited by Metoo (01/09/20 01:39 PM)
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Psilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26424726 - 01/09/20 01:47 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Does the exact wording of the second amendment matter to you?
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Psilynut2]
#26424744 - 01/09/20 01:54 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Does the exact wording of the second amendment matter to you?
Yes
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Psilynut2
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Metoo]
#26424815 - 01/09/20 02:19 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Then why don’t you care about the exact words relating to impeachment . There nothing that says the opposing party has to like it .
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Metoo
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Re: The abuse of power which led to impeachment [Re: Psilynut2]
#26424848 - 01/09/20 02:39 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Then why don’t you care about the exact words relating to impeachment . There nothing that says the opposing party has to like it .
I do - along with the historical context like other writings of the Fathers etc. This is what helps establish the intent of any document.
I have answered a few of your questions so here is one for you. Where is the Constitution does it say that "abuse of power" or "obstruction of congress" are impeachable offenses? Please provide direct quotes featuring these exact terms in your response.
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