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FunnyFungiName
Ninja Space Pirate


Registered: 01/15/18
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Anyone else skip the verm?
#26391997 - 12/20/19 06:42 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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When I started out I didnt use vermiculite because I was broke and figured that's one less ingredient, then I just stuck with the coir formula that worked for me. Now that I am already having good results and looking to optimize things, Im curious if im cutting my yields short at all by not using verm? Seems to me that it's not necessary, but it'd be cool to hear from anyone who has tried both with and without.
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Phycus
Blister Lips



Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 210
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vermiculite helps with water evaporation, meaning it makes water evaporate and usually helps with pinsets and serves as a non-nutritious barrier to contams and also serves as a pedestal in brf cakes.
-------------------- disclaimer - nothing i post is real. this account is for fictitious purposes and posts should not be taken literally
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Bph
Stranger



Registered: 10/11/18
Posts: 1,466
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: Phycus]
#26392007 - 12/20/19 07:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't use it long enough to have a real opinion on it but where I live it's not cheap so i didn't buy a second bag. I also didn't miss it.
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Phycus
Blister Lips



Registered: 12/08/13
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: Bph]
#26392020 - 12/20/19 07:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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for instance, when i was doing straw logs, it was harder to get a big pinset because of how the water gathered towards the bottom of the inside of the log, so i rolled it in verm. its now my avatar because verm gave me what i wanted almost instantly. i guess it depends on what youre after really
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SFS96
AstroMan



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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: Phycus]
#26392039 - 12/20/19 07:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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There’s many people here that use 100% coir with good results so I wouldn’t worry about the verm.
-------------------- How I make and preserve tea
Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: Phycus]
#26392040 - 12/20/19 07:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phycus said: vermiculite helps with water evaporation, meaning it makes water evaporate and usually helps with pinsets and serves as a non-nutritious barrier to contams and also serves as a pedestal in brf cakes.
I think you're confusing verm with perlite
Vermiculite holds water. Which is good for the mycelium to access when it needs.
Lots of people skip the verm it's not nessisary but it helps. I prefer to use verm but it's just preference.
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
Edited by ComebackKid (12/20/19 07:42 AM)
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eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: ComebackKid]
#26392082 - 12/20/19 08:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am using verm because it makes my substrate a bit fluffier and airy, but If I don't have any I just skip.
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MycoBrainz
Mycotic



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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: ComebackKid]
#26392146 - 12/20/19 09:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do a side by side and see what works best for you in your grow. Let us know.
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PFC x Creeper Lets Get Stoned
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Grimsweeper
don't fear the sweeper


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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26392147 - 12/20/19 09:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I haven't used it in a year or so. Doesn't seem to make a difference and I don't like how verm looks like pins forming. They're much easier to spot on straight coir.
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: Grimsweeper]
#26392189 - 12/20/19 09:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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For me verm is cheap so if I have it I chuck it in, if not I don't worry about it
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: cronicr]
#26392350 - 12/20/19 11:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I have the opposite situation. I bought a gigantic bag when I started not realizing it’s enough for probably thousands of shoeboxes so I use it all the time just cuz its there. In my grain jars, coir, extra vermy casing. I do like that it holds water though.
The only downside, and for me it’s a big one, is that it gets stuck all over the mushrooms and it’s a pain in the ass to clean off.
Related story:
When I used to buy shrooms they were just called gold caps and the caps always had these little shiny gold flecks on them which is why I thought they were named gold caps.
Then I decided to get into cult and spent hours looking through vendor pics for mushrooms with gold flecked caps and finally gave up.
The moment I figured out that those gold flecks had to be from pins pushing through a verm casing and getting bits of shiny verm fused into the cap blew my mind. It was also pretty disappointing that a variety with shiny flecked caps didn’t exist.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (12/20/19 11:59 AM)
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Phycus
Blister Lips



Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 210
Loc: tippy top of the tower
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: ComebackKid]
#26392369 - 12/20/19 12:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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no sir. perlite holds water. thats what youd put in a SGFC. Vermiculite is what you put on the top layer of PF cakes, and roll straw logs in
-------------------- disclaimer - nothing i post is real. this account is for fictitious purposes and posts should not be taken literally
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san pedro guy
Captain



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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: A.k.a]
#26392370 - 12/20/19 12:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I used to be amazed that a mushroom could grow gold flakes too lmao
Don’t remember when I figured out it was verm but damnit i liked believed in the magic of good flakes haha
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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FunnyFungiName
Ninja Space Pirate


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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: A.k.a]
#26392373 - 12/20/19 12:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Awesome, I'm probably going to keep doin what works, but I am going to make a couple coir/verm shoeboxes and see if there's any noticable difference.
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: Phycus]
#26392415 - 12/20/19 12:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phycus said: no sir. perlite holds water. thats what youd put in a SGFC. Vermiculite is what you put on the top layer of PF cakes, and roll straw logs in 
Quote:
Both vermiculite and perlite are inorganic products, both are relatively sterile, and both are often used as soil additives. Vermiculite is a soft,spongy material made from super-heating mica. Perlite is a hard, highly porous material made by super-heating volcanic glass. Typically, vermiculite will be tan/brown in color and perlite will be white. Whereas vermiculite absorbs water in its plate-like structure, perlite traps water in its very porous, undulated structure.
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Though both products do in fact aerate the potting soil, the fact that vermiculite holds moisture longer than perlite makes their usage different.
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Vermiculite retains more water and retains it for longer periods than perlite. Vermiculite affords slightly less aeration than perlite.
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Perlite only traps water on its large surface area, consisting of nooks and crevices, and thus releases its water more quickly. In doing so, it can help raise the humidity around plants. While vermiculite would be a better choice for starting seeds, perlite would be a better choice when rooting cuttings.
Quoted from a gardening website. TL;DR perlite is better for water evaporation. That's why we use it in SGFC to raise humidity when air passes through the perlite.
Vermiculite is good for holding water. Soaking up the moisture. Holding moisture close to the surface of the PF cake to create a microclimate optimal for pinning.
The fact that it helped balance the moisture in your logs still makes sense. It's just that we generally don't use or regard vermiculite as something that aids evaporation.
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
Edited by ComebackKid (12/20/19 01:28 PM)
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FunnyFungiName
Ninja Space Pirate


Registered: 01/15/18
Posts: 335
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: ComebackKid]
#26399202 - 12/24/19 01:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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For those doing coir only, how much water do you usually use? For me right under 3 quarts seems to be field capacity.
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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2qts per 450g or thereabouts, 3 sounds about right for one of those eco earth 650 blocks, i like mine a little dry though.
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
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Re: Anyone else skip the verm? [Re: AyePlus]
#26399514 - 12/24/19 06:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I started using using coir and then switched to verm and coir. Only difference is the consistency. Its a lot fluffier and easier to work with in tubs. Also great for when you need to lower the water content of the mix. Just toss in some verm. Done.
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