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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sudly]
    #26413598 - 01/03/20 02:59 AM (4 years, 26 days ago)

P.S. In my experience of delusion I found that it was misguided and that in realising I had been suffering from delirium I was able to grow again and recover effectively and more mentally sturdy within a short period of time.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sudly]
    #26413726 - 01/03/20 06:39 AM (4 years, 26 days ago)

are not all mental models of the universe essentially the same as delusions?

how could one not be working within the context of one's model of the universe if our very sense of vision is entirely constructed in the brain using fragmentary visual signals over time.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26414514 - 01/03/20 02:45 PM (4 years, 26 days ago)

"Intellect the highest power"
have you looked at the state of the world lately?
and you take this proposition seriously?
or expect others to?

wow....


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InvisibleKimble
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Registered: 03/08/18
Posts: 508
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26414540 - 01/03/20 03:01 PM (4 years, 26 days ago)

Entropy is the highest power, nothing escaspes.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26422389 - 01/08/20 05:50 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
are not all mental models of the universe essentially the same as delusions?

how could one not be working within the context of one's model of the universe if our very sense of vision is entirely constructed in the brain using fragmentary visual signals over time.




No, why would you say that?

Mental models may be built upon a platform of hallucinations, but the ideas and concepts that are capable of being relayed, are anything but delusion. Like blue prints for a building.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sudly]
    #26422408 - 01/08/20 06:33 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)

blueprints begin with orthogonal tension and accuracy, but the mental contents that enable blue prints are made up of neural activity - same thing whether classified as delusional or inspired.

even if you can put the model down onto paper (like architectural plans) or render to working computer code, the model will have little to distinguish itself from delusion, unless it really works as intended. take - for instance - the gerrymandered voting districts, rendered to paper it still looks like sanctioned madness.


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Offlinesideroxylon
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Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 121
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26422616 - 01/08/20 09:53 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Not true. Consciousness is merely the manifestation of the intellect, which in itself is a function of the brain.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sideroxylon]
    #26422812 - 01/08/20 11:31 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)

I agree with that, sideroxylon, which was the not true part (consciousness is the product of brain (in (healthy) body))?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26422969 - 01/08/20 01:27 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
blueprints begin with orthogonal tension and accuracy, but the mental contents that enable blue prints are made up of neural activity - same thing whether classified as delusional or inspired.

even if you can put the model down onto paper (like architectural plans) or render to working computer code, the model will have little to distinguish itself from delusion, unless it really works as intended. take - for instance - the gerrymandered voting districts, rendered to paper it still looks like sanctioned madness.




"even if you can ... render... the model will have little to distinguish itself from delusion, unless it really works as intended."

Exactly the test (seems to me), to be whether something works, not how it originated. One might say nature makes delusions or illusions in the case of mirages or gravity bending light. And that a man made illusion, like a big stone statue (of a god that does not exist), but that when it falls over it kills someone, does have a certain reality.
On a large scale we could say that what humans think of as the glories of civilization is delusional, yet the reality is quite real in terms of pollution and other horrible effects.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26423110 - 01/08/20 02:54 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

madness is what it seems to be.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sudly]
    #26423935 - 01/09/20 03:36 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

What distinguishes a magician from a ward patient.

Quote:

If hallucination is a kind of uncontrolled perception then perception right here and now as it is is a kind of hallucination but a controlled hallucination in which the brains predictions are being rained in by sensory information from the world.

When we agree about our hallucinations we call that reality




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sideroxylon]
    #26423956 - 01/09/20 04:11 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

sideroxylon said:
Not true. Consciousness is merely the manifestation of the intellect, which in itself is a function of the brain.




Ah, good old causal determinism-as-science replacing rational thinking, per usual.

Physics and all human "knowledge" is a description of reality, not a recipe for ontological truth.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Offlinesideroxylon
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26423980 - 01/09/20 05:33 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I agree with that, sideroxylon, which was the not true part (consciousness is the product of brain (in (healthy) body))?




Our senses supply with information, but what about the information of the information relayed by the senses? Well, the latter is the picture of life which we perceive as reality. Where else can it occur but the brain? Whether a body is healthy or not is inconsequential to the argument because a mad man possesses consciousness albeit disrupted.


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Offlinesideroxylon
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26423983 - 01/09/20 05:38 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Physics and all human "knowledge" is a description of reality, not a recipe for ontological truth.




If one wants to manufacture ontological truth as if it is made in a kitchen, then might I suggest to cease the use of language to him.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26425847 - 01/10/20 02:36 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Ontological truth got man to the moon.

# We can perceive with our hearts too, even kidneys have a sense.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: sideroxylon]
    #26426106 - 01/10/20 07:31 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

sideroxylon said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I agree with that, sideroxylon, which was the not true part (consciousness is the product of brain (in (healthy) body))?




Our senses supply with information, but what about the information of the information relayed by the senses? Well, the latter is the picture of life which we perceive as reality. Where else can it occur but the brain? Whether a body is healthy or not is inconsequential to the argument because a mad man possesses consciousness albeit disrupted.




dead body does not support brain or consciousness
some illnesses cause temporary loss of consciousness.


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Offlinebanquet
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Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 472
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26444358 - 01/21/20 06:39 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Say it isn't true!  It does seem that there is no higher power of manipulation than one of intellect.  What people perceive they think is real, and intellect is very convincing and difficult to invalidate.






The Supreme Truth-Consciousness:

One seated in the sleep of Superconscience, a massed Intelligence,
blissful and the enjoyer of Bliss. . . . This is the
omnipotent, this is the omniscient, this is the inner control,
this is the source of all. - Mandukya Upanishad


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OfflineNicodArleone
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Registered: 12/31/19
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26444437 - 01/21/20 08:21 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Do the laws of physics apply to intellect?

It can neither be created nor destroyed.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26445053 - 01/21/20 07:31 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Having a huge Army liberally sprinkled with spec ops troops, a massive Navy, Air Force, and a nuclear arsenal with plenty of human cannon fodder to throw at your enemies is the highest power on Earth...no real intellect required.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26445540 - 01/22/20 02:16 AM (4 years, 7 days ago)

If one thinks the intellect is centered in the head
and emotions in the gut
then intellect is literally the highest power in man

But that doesn't mean it runs the show

And actually the brain has a limbic (emotional, etc. system) in it, as well as hormones; so the distinction between intellect and emotion/motivation, is an artificial one created by language.

https://bigthink.com/experts-corner/decisions-are-emotional-not-logical-the-neuroscience-behind-decision-making.

from the article:

"A few years ago, neuroscientist Antonio Damasio made a groundbreaking discovery. He studied people with damage in the part of the brain where emotions are generated. He found that they seemed normal, except that they were not able to feel emotions. But they all had something peculiar in common: they couldn't make decisions. They could describe what they should be doing in logical terms, yet they found it very difficult to make even simple decisions, such as what to eat. "


Edited by laughingdog (01/22/20 02:17 AM)


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