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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26397862 - 12/23/19 04:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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you know what interests me is 'what emotional states lead to what things, and what things lead to emotional states' and then 'what is the origin of our troubles'. i'd have to imagine this couldn't be summed up for everyone, all at once, thru abduction- no, there is too much individuality for that.
but for me, personally...this is of interest. i feel like many people get a bum-wrap. not everyone...some people really are morbidly fucked up in this world...but most people get a bum-wrap.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#26397893 - 12/23/19 04:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Religion would say being away from the supreme consciousness, God or whatever reference. Being our cause of suffering.
Due to attachments.
Pretty much the majority of the brain is simple attachments. Neurons attached to each-other. A delusion perhaps would be thinking that outside circumstances cause our inner experience. When in my opinion they do complicate to some extent if not greatly.
Not many people would be happy starving in a prison cell. Even though ancient Buddhist and Christian searchers would hide in caves as if it were a prison.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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r00tcmplx
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26397990 - 12/23/19 05:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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> Has no working definition of words > Existing words are nothing but convoluted abstractions > Doesn't try to establish definitions > Ignores Redgreenvibes trying to establish a basis for intelligent convo > Wants to talk metaphysics having no foundation > Muh feels.. How do feels come about? > Muh theories about feels
Dat wankfest... Either of you just need a hug or company? I'll be little spoon. No talking though... Just cuddles
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: r00tcmplx]
#26398067 - 12/23/19 06:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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That does not communicate a darn thing at all.
Other than an attitude.
Good luck with your puppet account.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26398088 - 12/23/19 06:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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hahahaha
oh man....lol
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r00tcmplx
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26398126 - 12/23/19 07:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Morel Guy said: Definition of intellect
1a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledge b : the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed 2 : a person with great intellectual powers
ok, so intellect is entirely dependent on the words 'rational' and 'intelligent' (so we need that word defined) and what then are 'intellectual powers' in this scheme of definitions:
Quote:
Definition of rational
(Entry 1 of 2) 1a : having reason or understanding b : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason : reasonable a rational explanation rational behavior
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intelligent adjective
in·tel·li·gent | \ in-ˈte-lə-jənt \ Definition of intelligent
1a : having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity b : revealing or reflecting good judgment or sound thought : skillful 2a : possessing intelligence b : guided or directed by intellect : rational 3a : guided or controlled by a computer especially : smart sense 7c — compare dumb sense 7
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intellectual adjective
in·tel·lec·tu·al | \ ˌin-tə-ˈlek-chə-wəl , -chəl, -shwəl, -chü(-ə)l \ Definition of intellectual
(Entry 1 of 2) 1a : of or relating to the intellect or its use b : developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience : rational c : requiring use of the intellect intellectual games 2a : given to study, reflection, and speculation b : engaged in activity requiring the creative use of the intellect intellectual playwrights
so besides being not dumb, having good judgement, and or pursuing arts and letters or science or other bookish interests, these words lean on each other for meaning.
should we say "not being dumb and having good judgement is the highest power on earth"?
Great post. You answered OP and closed out the thread. The discussion is either about what the word 'intellect' and neighboring words mean or there's no discussion at all. They are indeed ill-defined abstractions. Intellect would tell you this. Knowledge/wisdom would tell you to spend time defining them before attempting to have an 'intelligent' conversation.
What is the highest power on earth? Who knows. Will you arrive at an answer by just throwing around ill defined terms? Most certainly not. What then is the intent? Especially when a person intelligently brings form/foundation to the discussion.
Information->Intelligence->knowledge->wisdom Philosophy 101. Intellect is clearly not considered, by long standing norms of philosophy to be the highest power. So, I wonder what in the world is the nature of this inquiry. I wonder if I actually start a metaphysical thread instead of the oft randomness of 1st principles/way out there thoughts if it will get any traction. Tried a couple of times and no bites. Why do people enjoy playing with ill-defined abstractions that ultimately won't lead to higher understanding? Is it just entertainment?
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: r00tcmplx]
#26398142 - 12/23/19 07:14 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Metaphyiscal may be entirely make belief. The idea that the brain functions on some coomonly unseen unkown physical level.
If that is the case it is realizing your imagination creates reality. Which for most people their imagination has not transcended intellect.
As you can see in the first post there is some rejection to the idea that intellect is the highest power. But the world must deal with it's intellect because nobody agrees on unseen metaphysical realities. In fact those usually cause large wars. Because people cannot transcend their intellect very easily and remain living.
It's very rare and not accepted by those that feel intellect is more power.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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static214



Registered: 12/05/19
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: r00tcmplx]
#26398233 - 12/23/19 08:14 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
r00tcmplx said: What is the highest power on earth? Who knows. Will you arrive at an answer by just throwing around ill defined terms? Most certainly not. What then is the intent? Especially when a person intelligently brings form/foundation to the discussion.
Information->Intelligence->knowledge->wisdom
Consider me told.
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r00tcmplx
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26398259 - 12/23/19 08:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: Metaphyiscal may be entirely make belief. The idea that the brain functions on some coomonly unseen unkown physical level.
So this is this era's last frontier huh? The human brain and how it functions... This is where the next 'kick will come from to spur humanity and all disciplines forward... The roadblock to the next layer of metaphysics...
Quote:
Morel Guy said: If that is the case it is realizing your imagination creates reality. Which for most people their imagination has not transcended intellect.
Correct. Most people are unaware to a level/degree that affords them the capability to 'integrate' across increasing layers of awareness especially for those that are inner layers. Agreeing upon a minimal framework : Information->Intelligence->;knowledge->wisdom Without subscribing to any rubber stamped definitions, I believe you, having the awareness to explain the above can see a rough set of 'segmentations' along the above hierarchy. Correct? A lot of people indeed don't have knowledge/wisdom which is the broad transcendent awareness of how the 'tool' of intellect can be applied. But you seemingly do in that you can define the 'awareness' factor. So, along this you see that intellect is not the highest power surely. And even in intellect there are different levels most closely relating to levels of book smarts.. Understanding/awareness as you state Morel of that intellect is where knowledge comes in.. Wisdom tempers knowledge. Not an original thought of mine. I distinctly remember this being taught to me in general Philosophy course work.
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Morel Guy said: As you can see in the first post there is some rejection to the idea that intellect is the highest power. But the world must deal with it's intellect because nobody agrees on unseen metaphysical realities.
I was pushy with you because I felt you already knew the answer, if so, why post the question? especially if it was so basic. I'd instead kindly request that in the future that you just state that you'd like to discuss idea (x) and let it go from there... You don't need to post an obvious 'flash point statement' that people know to be false. It will attract the wrong energy. As for the world, listen.. This world is full of idiots/idiocy. I don't expect ever a sane intelligent person to try to reason/restrict their thinking within the confines of the world. As far as the topic and discussion you prompted, sure you are correct.. The world primarily centers 'outwardly' on the concept of 'intellect'. Knowledge/wisdom are held as metaphysical unknowns but people generally know them to be behind the scenes 'forces' that put intellect to work.. Even an idiot with intellect has knowledge/wisdom.. Just not a lot of it. As such, 'intellect' is not a higher power even on earth.. Necessarily, there are two levels above it that act on it.
Now, as a point of agreement, if we get down to the clown idiot world.. Well then yes, a person with a lot of intellect and a little knowledge/wisdom is valued above a person with lets say 80% of the intellect but 500% more knowledge and wisdom. Sure. In some cases even a person with higher intellect and knowledge/wisdom are looked upon as lessor than a person of lower intellect/knowledge/wisdom because its that stubborn knowledge/wisdom that will tempers the intellect and restricts it from being utilized for instance to harm people broadly/etc.
Yes, I think here we are along the same thought process. I may just express some frustration because I figure on a site like this and in this subsection you can skip the teasers and get to this kind of meat off the top.
Quote:
Morel Guy said: In fact those usually cause large wars. Because people cannot transcend their intellect very easily and remain living.
It's very rare and not accepted by those that feel intellect is more power.
So, now that you have detailed it fully. I completely agree. There is a point of distinguishment I'd like to make : Information->Intelligence->;knowledge->wisdom Hierarchy is pretty agreed upon.. Intelligence is a lower power and is tempered by knowledge/wisdom.
However, as you state, yes.. in the 'practical' world... Intellect is prized far more than knowledge/wisdom.
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r00tcmplx
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: static214]
#26398268 - 12/23/19 08:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
static214 said:
Quote:
r00tcmplx said: What is the highest power on earth? Who knows. Will you arrive at an answer by just throwing around ill defined terms? Most certainly not. What then is the intent? Especially when a person intelligently brings form/foundation to the discussion.
Information->Intelligence->knowledge->wisdom
Consider me told.
I'm in the philosophy section of the site am I not? Do I really have to google the diagram from 'Philosophy 101' that states this very thing? Lets have a go at it :




The deeper discussion, given that everyone here is at least fluent in Philosophy 101 is why this is the case in the world.. However, I was completely unaware that this question had to be asked..I thought it was commonly agreed to.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: r00tcmplx] 1
#26398582 - 12/24/19 03:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wanted to hear or read discussion. It's one thing that can be capable with the internet.
If it was coomonly agreed to then why the initial disparange?
I believe in higher power(s). When one awakens to their subconscious subtle reality becomes perceived. Mystics have great wisdom and intellect, a grand scope of vision. Suppose it is frustrating that our leaders fail in that regard. That the systems are not understanding how the mind/brain/body works. Given it is cmplicated they recognize a lot of good from troubling.
I just think that our information world gets the best out of people and exhausts their will power. Like your posts above, they don't speak subconsciously. Speaking to the subconscious is a great power, the conscious mind does not know it's place.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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r00tcmplx
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26398606 - 12/24/19 04:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: I wanted to hear or read discussion. It's one thing that can be capable with the internet.
If it was coomonly agreed to then why the initial disparange?
Because I somewhat and no offense recall this was taught to me in AP Psych in highschool... I felt there had to be more to it than just this so I attempted to abruptly move the discussion to a higher potential. This is after-all just information/data at this point. The human mind grasps it easily at this evolved stage. I'd figure, given the context of this site and subjection, everyone's on the same basic page for such common knowledge.
Quote:
Morel Guy said: I believe in higher power(s). When one awakens to their subconscious subtle reality becomes perceived. Mystics have great wisdom and intellect, a grand scope of vision.
True enough.
Quote:
Morel Guy said: Suppose it is frustrating that our leaders fail in that regard. That the systems are not understanding how the mind/brain/body works. Given it is cmplicated they recognize a lot of good from troubling.
The world is the world. Its the same its always been. The universe and various scales reflect this same reality. 'Free will' allows a person to choose their path. Not everyone chooses to suffer attempts towards a 'higher' path when the lower one is heavily traversed, easier, and outcomes straight forward. Not everyone is a pioneer/wanderer. Some enjoy staying closer to the tribe. And tribes/societies exist and are structured around this principle of a foundation/safety net for the 'masses'. I have no qualms with that especially in the west as one has a broad set of freedoms to choose as they see fit.
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Morel Guy said: I just think that our information world gets the best out of people and exhausts their will power.
People make their own choices for their own reasons. At the end of the day there you are. I could stretch my mind in a billion pieces trying to understand the near random and infinite range of possibilities for a person's life and why they choose accordingly or I can focus my mind on a higher realization/understanding. I spent a good deal of my life doing the former and am well versed enough to have come to a cut-off point. I am thankful not upset of the huge amount of time I spent with this thinking as it ultimately afforded me the confidence to resign from such troubled thoughts.
Quote:
Morel Guy said: Like your posts above, they don't speak subconsciously. Speaking to the subconscious is a great power, the conscious mind does not know it's place.
Maybe they'll do better next time... You're on this ride until you figure out how to get off.
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kitten6
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26400025 - 12/25/19 04:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Intellect has made us burn bright and strong, if not the brightest and strongest on planet earth.
But that is not true intellect, because true intellect would favor longevity and preservation. True intellect is the meditative lifestyle the path of Buddha.
We are burning brighter and stronger than ever before, how long do you think we can keep up. Do you think earth will outlive us or will we outlive earth and begin destruction of other planets.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: kitten6]
#26400032 - 12/25/19 04:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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We are not going far anytime soon. The super-mundane is capable of more relating to the cosmos and life in it than crude science. Every time science has a super mundane idea, the exploit the war of it.
There's been govt psychic projevts to communicate with alies, or what else. Finding our own higher intelligence. That's got a lot to do with the upper crust religion had many achieve similar success. Transcending the animal mind, our default mode. Default mode is a way of coming down.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Stoic
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy] 2
#26401863 - 12/26/19 04:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Intellect is powerful and most dull minds can be improved with learning, memorization, and training, but most animals are capable of these feats. The culture now is one of stupidity, ignorance, closed mindedness, comfort, and entertainment, which inhibits all critical thinking skills and makes it impossible for most to perceive reality as it really is, also most believe they are the only real objects and everything/everyone else are here for their entertainment. For real power of the mind one must have wisdom and knowledge, wisdom includes all good traits like understanding, empathy, knowing your place in the world and being able to see reality for what it is. No one can know everything, but my goal in life is to continue learning till my last breath, also what is learned must be of value, true value not sport stats, info about dumb celebrities, or any other frivolous kind of knowledge. Truth is about 1% of the population have powerful minds, wisdom, and let me say they are miserable, because of what they are surrounded by in this world. Then you have the 90%-99%, which I mean the 9% at the top of the population, which think they are super smart and maybe so in comparison to most of the population, but that's not the case it's more likely they are just the smartest idiots, because they possess little wisdom, don't learn because they already think they know everything, love being praised for how smart they are told they are, and have little true grasp of reality. I will not speak about the bottom 90%, no need. All these things could be different with proper education (not existing currently), but would require the whole society to participate and that requires to much effort and people would have to face their problems and reality, which will not happen. As the Masters say about the ignorant masses, let them eat cake. If anyone were interested in wisdom I would advise them to start with Seneca the younger, Marcus Aurelius, and then expand to other philosophers. Never stop learning, care about others and have empathy (empathy-being able to put yourself into someone else's situation and see/think like said person), this is the start of real power and can be cultivated/strengthened throughout life. The original question is about how powerful intellect is, my answer is intellect alone is a gun with no bullet, target, or person operating it, intellect is a small piece of the power that the mind can be with the right cultivation. Peace and love to all
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Stoic]
#26401873 - 12/26/19 04:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Critical thinking needs a break. Humans over think everything.
We have delusions to guide us.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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r00tcmplx
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Stoic] 1
#26401877 - 12/26/19 04:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stoic said: Intellect is powerful and most dull minds can be improved with learning, memorization, and training, but most animals are capable of these feats. The culture now is one of stupidity, ignorance, closed mindedness, comfort, and entertainment, which inhibits all critical thinking skills and makes it impossible for most to perceive reality as it really is, also most believe they are the only real objects and everything/everyone else are here for their entertainment. For real power of the mind one must have wisdom and knowledge, wisdom includes all good traits like understanding, empathy, knowing your place in the world and being able to see reality for what it is. No one can know everything, but my goal in life is to continue learning till my last breath, also what is learned must be of value, true value not sport stats, info about dumb celebrities, or any other frivolous kind of knowledge. Truth is about 1% of the population have powerful minds, wisdom, and let me say they are miserable, because of what they are surrounded by in this world. Then you have the 90%-99%, which I mean the 9% at the top of the population, which think they are super smart and maybe so in comparison to most of the population, but that's not the case it's more likely they are just the smartest idiots, because they possess little wisdom, don't learn because they already think they know everything, love being praised for how smart they are told they are, and have little true grasp of reality. I will not speak about the bottom 90%, no need. All these things could be different with proper education (not existing currently), but would require the whole society to participate and that requires to much effort and people would have to face their problems and reality, which will not happen. As the Masters say about the ignorant masses, let them eat cake. If anyone were interested in wisdom I would advise them to start with Seneca the younger, Marcus Aurelius, and then expand to other philosophers. Never stop learning, care about others and have empathy (empathy-being able to put yourself into someone else's situation and see/think like said person), this is the start of real power and can be cultivated/strengthened throughout life. The original question is about how powerful intellect is, my answer is intellect alone is a gun with no bullet, target, or person operating it, intellect is a small piece of the power that the mind can be with the right cultivation. Peace and love to all
Bravo my dude. I can exit the thread with this... Covered the whole gamut
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Stoic
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: r00tcmplx]
#26401882 - 12/26/19 04:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I love the "have delusions to guide" lol
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Morel Guy
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Stoic]
#26401898 - 12/26/19 05:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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They say we stop learning. The path to it all.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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sudly
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Re: Intellect the highest power on Earth? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26411929 - 01/02/20 06:09 AM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Ken Ham and most pollies/news media hosts etc. got this shit down pat.
Deflect and obfuscate, projection, cliches and platitudes are all a part of the recipe.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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