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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
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Loc: Texas
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Lee Harvey Oswald 2
#26387556 - 12/17/19 05:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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So last week I did something that I've always wanted to do, and that's go ride by some of the places in Dallas that Lee Harvey Oswald was associated with.
I've already driven down the street in downtown countless times (most times which were just because I happened to be on that street) where JFK was shot, and also, the Texas Theater where Oswald was found hiding after the assassination. Oh, and I've driven by the old jail (now a municipal court building) where Jack Ruby gunned down Oswald. So I didn't have to go by those again.
But I wanted to drive by the boarding house he lived at (at the time of the assassination), the street corner where he gunned down JD Tippett (Dallas police officer), and the backyard where his girlfriend took the iconic photo of him posing with the rifle.
I found the backyard where his girlfriend took the rifle pose photo to be the most creepy, because even 56 some years later -- it still looks nearly exactly the same.


Even that white picket fence in the background appears to be the same exact fence from over five decades ago. And as you can see there's a section of the fence missing that allows you to peer directly into the backyard. Almost assuredly from the curious (such as myself, except I wouldn't have pulled their fence down lol). I couldn't tell if someone was living there or not.
Yeah I know, it's just a backyard, but...still a little surreal to know that the most infamous assassin in the history of the United States (well either him or John Wilkes Booth) stood there 56 years ago and posed for a photograph with the rifle that he killed the President with.
Anyway...anybody have any thoughts or theories of what happened? Was Oswald set up? Was he a "patsy" like he claimed? Was he the lone gunman? Was there another shooter?
I still find it really odd that a known, connected mob guy, Jack Ruby, gunned down Oswald before Oswald could even tell his side of the story. Was Ruby just simply angry that Oswald shot his President, or was it to get to Lee before he could talk? Call me a batshit conspiracy theorist but the mob at the time had a hell of a lot of good reason to not want to see John F. Kennedy breathing. Especially Jimmy Hoffa.
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psi
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: Niffla] 1
#26387585 - 12/17/19 05:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's really cool. A spot I've always wanted to check out was the storm sewer.
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: psi]
#26387605 - 12/17/19 05:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pennywise is in there.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Pennywise shot the president?
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Crazy_Horse
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: lowbrow] 1
#26387627 - 12/17/19 06:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: Maybe
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psi
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I probably mentioned this before but my grade 9 history teacher devoted half the year to the JFK assassination and had this JFK conspiracy researcher guy called Tony Centa come in and do a series of talks.

I saw him in the 90s and not the 80s like this is from, but same guy.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: psi]
#26387637 - 12/17/19 06:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: I probably mentioned this before but my grade 9 history teacher devoted half the year to the JFK assassination and had this JFK conspiracy researcher guy called Tony Centa come in and do a series of talks.
I saw him in the 90s and not the 80s like this is from, but same guy.
That's awesome, psi.
So what was your conclusion/theory on it
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lowbrow
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: psi]
#26387667 - 12/17/19 06:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: I probably mentioned this before but my grade 9 history teacher devoted half the year to the JFK assassination and had this JFK conspiracy researcher guy called Tony Centa come in and do a series of talks.
In Canada?
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psi
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: lowbrow] 1
#26387674 - 12/17/19 07:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said: In Canada?
Yeah. I think the idea was that it was a fairly recent historical event where there is this mountain of potential evidence and no easy answers to what really happened.
Quote:
Niffla said:
So what was your conclusion/theory on it
I kinda like the CIA/Manchurian candidate theories. And I think it makes a lot of sense that there could have been a gunman firing from head on.
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AmericanPsycho
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: Niffla] 1
#26387916 - 12/17/19 11:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said: Anyway...anybody have any thoughts or theories of what happened? Was Oswald set up? Was he a "patsy" like he claimed? Was he the lone gunman? Was there another shooter?
Did you read the declassified documents that the govt released last year? They seem to think there was a second shooter.
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TheFakeSunRa
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I think there were two shooters but they didn’t know each other and weren’t working in concert in any way. It was just a crazy unfathomable coincidence. By the time they figured out about the trajectories the bizarre reality was unthinkable.
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psi
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I think the backup shooter knew about Oswald but not vice versa.
With the RFK shooting too there are some parallel theories. Mentally unstable fall guy who was manipulated by handlers behind the scenes into at least attempting the crime, and then a backup shooter to make sure the job gets done.
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christopera
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: psi] 1
#26388297 - 12/18/19 08:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're organization is good enough to engineer a fall guy and coordinate the murder with a back up killer, why would you need the fall guy in the first place? Just so that the public is satisfied? Asking honestly.
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psi
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Quote:
Just so that the public is satisfied?
Yeah exactly, people want to see it wrapped up nicely and don't want to think someone is out there who got away with it.
And the same principle applies to investigators even if they weren't in on it otherwise. They know that "We're pretty sure there was a second gunman but we didn't catch him and have no clue who he is" is not going to play well with the public.
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christopera
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: psi] 2
#26388354 - 12/18/19 09:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess it makes sense. It seems like it would be less work to let your back up killer, whom presumably is an expert, just make the kill and walk out the back door just as he did. Sure the public is going to be pissed off, but you still got JFK.
It's an intriguing piece of lore. I wasn't even alive, so it's hard for me to put all the pieces together. It's not of particular interest to me, though i do get sucked in occasionally.
Here's a story about Jimmy Hoffa. A buddy of mine took me to this junkyard in eastern Ohio one time, we were picking up parts for his Civic or something, I can't recall exactly but it was in the early 2000's. This is like a 2000 acres or more junkyard, you can drive around in there for half an hour or more just trying to find the car you're taking parts off of. At the entrance to the junkyard sits an old house, there's a fence that lines the perimeter or the junkyard. To get into the yard you go in the front door of the house, inside is an office, the attendant gives you instructions on where to find your parts and opens the gate so you can go in. The junkyard attendant lives in the upstairs of the house, the yard is technically 24 hours, but people rarely go after dark. So anyways, when we stop into the attendants office I notice there's a bunch of Hoffa articles framed and hung around the office. So I ask the attendant about this. He proceeds to tell me a story. So the attendant in 1975 called the police after an apparent break in the night that Hoffa disappeared, this apparently was around 11pm or so. The police show up to investigate, the gate is cut open. The attendant says he saw three black sedans drive through the gate and head into the junkyard. The police head in, it's just one cop car. About 20 minutes go by and the three black sedans come out, they had been there for maybe an hour at this point, they leave in a hurry. 10 minutes later, the police come back out, the attendant tells the police about the three black sedans. The police never saw the sedans. The place is a maze, so it's not a huge surprise, but the attendant does his best to give a description. Now steeling parts of junk cars at night isn't exactly common, first off, it's hard to do because you can't see what you are doing. Second off, the parts are from junk cars, so they are generally about as cheap as you're going to get. The owners of the junkyard and the attendant at the time to this day believe that Hoffa is buried out there somewhere. They've been pretty much obsessed with it, hence the framed photos and articles. The property is just too large to search, and with cars coming in and out daily the ground too disturbed to attempt any sort of sleuthing. So it would have come down to an all out man search, and since law enforcement wasn't convinced, such a thing never gained any traction.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (12/18/19 09:22 AM)
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
christopera said:
Here's a story about Jimmy Hoffa. A buddy of mine took me to this junkyard in eastern Ohio one time, we were picking up parts for his Civic or something, I can't recall exactly but it was in the early 2000's. This is like a 2000 acres or more junkyard, you can drive around in there for half an hour or more just trying to find the car you're taking parts off of. At the entrance to the junkyard sits an old house, there's a fence that lines the perimeter or the junkyard. To get into the yard you go in the front door of the house, inside is an office, the attendant gives you instructions on where to find your parts and opens the gate so you can go in. The junkyard attendant lives in the upstairs of the house, the yard is technically 24 hours, but people rarely go after dark. So anyways, when we stop into the attendants office I notice there's a bunch of Hoffa articles framed and hung around the office. So I ask the attendant about this. He proceeds to tell me a story. So the attendant in 1975 called the police after an apparent break in the night that Hoffa disappeared, this apparently was around 11pm or so. The police show up to investigate, the gate is cut open. The attendant says he saw three black sedans drive through the gate and head into the junkyard. The police head in, it's just one cop car. About 20 minutes go by and the three black sedans come out, they had been there for maybe an hour at this point, they leave in a hurry. 10 minutes later, the police come back out, the attendant tells the police about the three black sedans. The police never saw the sedans. The place is a maze, so it's not a huge surprise, but the attendant does his best to give a description. Now steeling parts of junk cars at night isn't exactly common, first off, it's hard to do because you can't see what you are doing. Second off, the parts are from junk cars, so they are generally about as cheap as you're going to get. The owners of the junkyard and the attendant at the time to this day believe that Hoffa is buried out there somewhere. They've been pretty much obsessed with it, hence the framed photos and articles. The property is just too large to search, and with cars coming in and out daily the ground too disturbed to attempt any sort of sleuthing. So it would have come down to an all out man search, and since law enforcement wasn't convinced, such a thing never gained any traction.
Whoa. What if...
Very cool story.
Chris did you see The Irishman? The new Netflix Martin Scorcese film on Hoffa?
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christopera
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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald [Re: Niffla]
#26388455 - 12/18/19 10:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have not seen it, I've heard good things though. Maybe I'll squeeze it in over the holidays here.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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psi
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Registered: 09/05/99
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Love the Hoffa anecdote. Yeah that movie was decent.
Quote:
christopera said: I guess it makes sense. It seems like it would be less work to let your back up killer, whom presumably is an expert, just make the kill and walk out the back door just as he did. Sure the public is going to be pissed off, but you still got JFK.
A lot depends on who they were and what they hoped to achieve by the assassination. If a broad crisis in confidence in American institutions was the aim (e.g. by the Soviets), then the killer never being found may serve that aim just fine. The Soviets openly admitting he was an active "asset" and killed JFK on their orders would cause even more disruption but it would also probably mean all out nuclear war.
If it was organized crime, the killer never being found probably serves their aims just fine as well. So setting up a patsy who then needs to be silenced by Ruby when he spills the beans seems like extra complication for little benefit, unless Oswald wasn't supposed to be caught.
If it was forces within the US government, not finding anyone makes the government look incompetent, dishonest, or involved, and that eats away at the foundations of the power they presumably want to hang on to. "It was just some guy acting alone" is a nice neat "nothing to see here, we can put it all behind us."
Edited by psi (12/18/19 11:01 AM)
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
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Loc: Texas
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Quote:
christopera said: I have not seen it, I've heard good things though. Maybe I'll squeeze it in over the holidays here.
It's super long. Like 3 hrs and 45 minutes long. Interesting theories in it.
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