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YangSupporter
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) *DELETED* [Re: pixelpopper] 1
#26385557 - 12/16/19 05:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by YangSupporter
Reason for deletion: Q
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PatrickKn


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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: YangSupporter]
#26385588 - 12/16/19 05:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the documentary was a good watch and pretty well made as far as dietary documentaries go, but I didn't feel sold on the ideas at the end of watching it. If the narrative was more in the realm of the idea that you could still succeed at sports in the top of every class and live a healthy life while on a vegan diet - I'm open to that completely and think they said what they needed in order to to prove that.
But the narrative in the documentary is that meat is actually holding you back competitively, I'm not completely sure I buy that and I think taking that narrative approach actually held the documentary back a little bit. Some of the stuff they talked about seemed stretchy at best, not scientifically verified or even necessary to push what they were putting out.
A shitty diet will definitely hold you back in anything, but their whole thing was that any and all animal proteins will limit your performance, and that a completely plant based diet will help you excel about as fast as the meat juices leave your body. I've done a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet both before and the way in which I ate was not exactly the best for energy or stamina, so to me there is a huge missing chunk of the puzzle that they didn't really touch on.
Where they completely failed is not really suggesting and going in depth on a real diet one can live healthily on from now till death without issues, and at least conceding that many of the greatest athletes on the planet eat meat all the same.
Edited by PatrickKn (12/16/19 05:55 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: pixelpopper]
#26385617 - 12/16/19 06:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can't watch Joe Rogan even for entertainment let alone information, I find his shows asinine. Just television on the internet, and I don't watch television, helps avoid psychological contamination.
Quote:
pixelpopper said:
Quote:
The Mycologist said: Or the whole. Lets give you a certain food for one day and then look at your blood.
Thats not how blood works.
it was just one example of how eating meat can affect your daily bloodflow, which is relative to athletic performance as well as boners. Personally, if I can get a 300% increase in boner power by not eating meat for that day, then that is certainly something worth consideration. And it would certainly point to cumulative effect after years of daily meat eating. There are more points in the film than just this tho in regards to blood flow, its just one thing I commented on.
Wonderful way to play to the male ego that pseudo-science. You already said you didn't eat meat for some years, neither did I. I wasn't chopping down trees with my erections though. How about you?
Don't you think every athletic team in the world would have mandatory policy not to eat meat if that was actual fact? There'd be teams called "The Vegan All Stars" that run circles around the competition. Such increased blood flow would make them super athletes compared to meat eating competitors. The same way as when we see black runners who live in high altitude areas come down and compete against our best athletes, and suddenly get a major boost in oxygen. Hardly anyone else can touch them because of their superior blood supply.
Being able to extrapolate and rationalise helps a lot when watching these sorts of things.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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pixelpopper
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: Northerner] 1
#26385750 - 12/16/19 06:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually, I did have better quality erections when I was vegan 
I mean you call it pseudo-science, but the demonstration shown in the doc presented the same results for 3 different football players showing more & longer erections throughout the night when consuming plant meals vs meat meals. Granted this wasn't a huge study conducted over a longer period, but how do you explain this being pseudo-science when it clearly shows all 3 of the dudes getting the same results? And this demonstration being based on something had already proved itself, which is why it was included in the first place...
The documentary isn't saying anything about being vegan by the way, in regards to "pro vegan propaganda" - its saying to make the bulk of your diet plant based but never anything about going full vegan.
And I don't really see why people wouldn't grant that there is also a very well oiled, pro-meat machine when they are arguing the pro-vegan machine... If anything, seems to me that the meat machine would have much more money behind it than the other way around
I don't watch/listen to Joe Rogan any more either, but the linked discussion is a debate regarding exactly what's being talked about here. It takes about an hour to really get into specific points tho, instead of just bickering.
Edited by pixelpopper (12/16/19 06:58 PM)
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pixelpopper
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: pixelpopper] 1
#26385769 - 12/16/19 07:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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And in regards to why so many athletes would still stick to the same old meat diet instead of going plant based, well I don't see what's so hard to understand... the thinking that meat is best has been hammered into everyone's brains, particularly athletes.
Its the same as any other popular idea in society... such as the idea that LSD can make you crazy or any commonly head misconception with its roots in propaganda. It takes a long time for the bulk of people to catch up to truth.
Why would this be any different?
Even certain types of exercises have stuck around for a long time within these communities, even though they've been shown to be ultimately bad or inferior to others, because people get stuck in old ideas.
Edited by pixelpopper (12/16/19 07:06 PM)
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Dekozn
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: pixelpopper]
#26385811 - 12/16/19 07:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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What does 'cinematic stories' mean?
-------------------- Organized people are just to lazy to search for their stuff...
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ichugwindex
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: Dekozn]
#26385848 - 12/16/19 07:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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1232 AD 1st Known Use Of Rockets- In the 1232 the Chinese used rockets in battle for the first time. This demonstrated the military use of gunpowder. From this moment on the use of gunpowder spread rapidly around the world.
I cant stand the ufc. Who ACTUALLY wasted their time trying to fist fight after 1232 AD? Arguably like 900 AD. Go beat rocks together you uselessly muscular cavemen.
The only valid argument against this that I could conceptualize is the whole "art of the fight" thing
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
Edited by ichugwindex (12/16/19 07:40 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: pixelpopper] 1
#26385882 - 12/16/19 07:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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3 people isn't even a proper experiment. I bet we could produce opposite results with little effort. Did they check the air temperature? Did they try doing the measurements the other way around, meat then veg then veg then meat? Was the level of exercise consistent over both days? Did the participants ejaculate on both days before the measurements during the night? Were the hydration levels of the participants the same? Did they have a control person? Pseudoscience cares not for variables, only grandiose claims.
So you really don't think anyone would exploit veganism to cash in on the billions of dollars of sports money, just because they are all brainwashed? Pro athletes on big money teams don't even decide what they eat very much, if at all. They've got that science tied up with serious nutritionists. No doubt they are eating in schedules that boost protein and muscle repair at particular times and energy expenditure and oxygen distribution at others. I'd bet my house on it. And with the growing popularity of plant based diets you wouldn't think they had evaluated these diets seriously? These are all rhetorical questions.
I eat a mostly plant based diet and there's good reason for it. It's healthier for me at my stage of life, I don't need the dense proteins and oils like I once did. I'm not an opponent of better nutrition. But I am an opponent of misleading halftruths. I would equally be ripping into any sort of carnivore diet propaganda.
I can kind of understand how its come to this though. 95% of the so called food in supermarkets I would never buy. The deep fried chunks of whatever with a massive slab of meat next to it covered in sugar sauce that are restaurant meals are barely better. The western diet has truly lost its way. Maybe this sort of "doco" is a good sort of thing, to make people think about what they are eating. A catalyst for much needed change.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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coAsTal
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: Northerner] 1
#26385941 - 12/16/19 08:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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All the detractors in here should listen to the Rogan episode linked above-- the documentary is secondary to the science fact--
It's fine if you want to pick apart the showmanship and masculine aping of the documentary-- I wasn't interested in that at all-- it was a distraction from the underlying facts, and before you form a final opinion on the premise, you should suffer through the Rogan show to see why these people are so convinced.
The first half hour is a bunch of talking over each other-- but once James gets onto naming the studies and Chris is literally speechless for three hours, completely unprepared for the information onslaught that is heaped upon him, it's mesmerizing.
It's of no concern to me if you ignore the details in there and make your anthill stand based on cherry-picking what you will and won't believe-- it's purely your loss. You're safe and sound if you feel secure in your ignorance.
But you shouldn't state opinions as fact.
-------------------- I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats Spore Trading List
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Northerner
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: coAsTal]
#26386303 - 12/17/19 01:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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We were just shooting the shit, then you come in here all holier than thou pointing the cunt stick at everyone/no-one in in particular calling them ignorant and lowly. Wtf?
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Northerner
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: Northerner]
#26386337 - 12/17/19 02:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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As I couldn't stand watching 3 hours of youtube I grabbed some (as much as possible) unbiased reviews.
Much easier to read and then reference back.
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/ https://tacticmethod.com/the-game-changers-scientific-review-and-references/ https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/ https://perfectketo.com/game-changers-movie-fact-check/ and the Chris Kresser reference list https://chriskresser.com/debunking-the-game-changers-joe-rogan/
I looked for, but could not find, a reference for the film that tried to support it as a valid documentary.
I'll quote a reviewers final statement
"This film would be closest to a comedy, because it’s a joke. I didn’t even address all the ludicrous claims in the video, I simply picked out the most egregious claims. I would have needed to hire extra staff to fully debunk this steaming pile of dung. It helps no one and does not move veganism forward and will do nothing but further confuse the average person through misrepresentation of science and fear mongering.
F-, we are all dumber for having watched this, and may God have mercy on your souls."
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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badchad
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: pixelpopper]
#26386488 - 12/17/19 06:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Since we're all just posting bullshit youtube videos with no sources, think of it more pragmatically: Professional sports is big money. There's a lot at stake to produce the best, most efficient athletes.
If vegan were the miracle diet and superior to meat, the vast majority of professional athletes would be vegan, not a small minority.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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coAsTal
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: Northerner] 1
#26386618 - 12/17/19 08:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You guys are embarrassing yourselves.
I want to add also that I did not get emotional about anything in this thread-- Northern, you don't strike me as someone to take things personally, yet you claim that I'm coming down on you.
Do what you will with the facts-- ignore them or embrace them.
Edited by coAsTal (12/17/19 08:47 AM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: coAsTal] 1
#26386635 - 12/17/19 08:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Protein Quantity and Source, Fasting-Mimicking Diets, and Longevity
Diets high in protein reduce longevity, the debate is over. Long ago in evolutionary history, bacteria developed different sets of genes. One set is for growth and reproduction during times of abundance, the other set is for preservation of the body during times of hardship. We too have these genes. They encode for receptors and proteins called mTOR, AMPK, and sirtuins. When you consume amino acids, you undergo epigenetic changes that put your cells into growth and reproduction rather than preservation mode. Changes to DNA resulting from cellular growth and reproduction of cells is the reason we age over time and develop diseases like cancer.
Drugs like metformin interfere with resistance-training induced muscle growth via action on the mTOR receptor, but the benefit is increased longevity.
I intend to argue in a forthcoming paper that low-carbohydrate diets also indirectly reduce longevity and increase a number of pathogenetic risks via proliferation of an enzyme called tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase resulting from chronically increased blood glucagon levels. Stay tuned.
I don't think it's best to avoid meat altogether, but I do think that the typical Western diet has far more meat than necessary. Keep eating your fatty fish and dairy, but yes, get most of your calories from vegetables, fruits, and whole grains.
DNA methylation GrimAge strongly predicts lifespan and healthspan
Dietary factors that were significantly associated (the column labelled, “p”) with a younger epigenetic age were carbohydrate intake, dairy, whole grains, fruit, and vegetables. In contrast, dietary fat intake and red meat were associated with older epigenetic ages
Note that dietary recall data as a means for identifying nutrient intake can be unreliable-a better measure of dietary intake is circulating biomarkers. Are there associations between circulating biomarkers of nutrient intake with epigenetic aging?
Higher blood levels of carotenoids, including lycopene, alpha- and beta-carotene, lutein+zeaxanthin, and beta-cryptoxanthin were associated with a younger epigenetic age
Edited by morrowasted (12/17/19 08:52 AM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: morrowasted]
#26386833 - 12/17/19 10:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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And if you're looking for gains, you can still get them as a vegetarian. Some of the most ripped and buffed out guys I've met are vegetarians. Making gains isn't just all about protein. There are many nutrients that occur far more abundantly in plants that play a role in muscle gain.
Many westerners consume insufficient magnesium and copper (or too much zinc because of excessive meat consumption, which reduces copper absorption). A magnesium deficiency will decrease free testosterone levels through the action of Sex-Hormone Binding Globulin. A copper deficiency will prevent iron from being converted into the oxidative state required for it to be useful for oxygen transport.
But I personally believe that eating some foods that contain DHA and vitamin b12 is important for preventing cognitive decline, and also have beneficial anti-inflammatory properties. Fish is obviously the best source of DHA, but there is a bit of it in dairy, too. You knock out your b12 at the same time.
Edited by morrowasted (12/17/19 10:51 AM)
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YangSupporter
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) *DELETED* [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26386874 - 12/17/19 11:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by YangSupporter
Reason for deletion: Q
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pixelpopper
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: YangSupporter]
#26386932 - 12/17/19 12:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Many westerners consume insufficient magnesium and copper (or too much zinc because of excessive meat consumption, which reduces copper absorption). A magnesium deficiency will decrease free testosterone levels through the action of Sex-Hormone Binding Globulin. A copper deficiency will prevent iron from being converted into the oxidative state required for it to be useful for oxygen transport.
But I personally believe that eating some foods that contain DHA and vitamin b12 is important for preventing cognitive decline, and also have beneficial anti-inflammatory properties. Fish is obviously the best source of DHA, but there is a bit of it in dairy, too. You knock out your b12 at the same time.
The only 2 supplements I am actively taking at this point are magnesium and b12
B12 is one of the key points touched on in this doc, and in the JRE debate. According to the info in the doc, the only reason meat has any b12 in it during modern times is because the animals are given b12 supplements in their feed. According to this info, animals used to get b12 because it was present in the soil & water, which has now changed due to things like pesticides and the way everything has been treated. The debunker says this claim is bullshit, but the doc guy totally backs it up in the debate and the debunker has to admit he was wrong. So basically a human can just take b12 supplements instead of eating meat.
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: And if you're looking for gains, you can still get them as a vegetarian. Some of the most ripped and buffed out guys I've met are vegetarians.
True its just less efficient thats why the top nutritionists working for Olympic athletes always have them eating meat. Vegetarian or vegan athletes put themselves at a disadvantage.
There are olympic athletes in this doc who disagree with what you say here.
You guys are just latched onto talking points without even really being open to taking an open minded look at the info 
(redacted)
Edited by pixelpopper (12/17/19 12:12 PM)
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pixelpopper
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: Northerner] 1
#26386956 - 12/17/19 12:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: As I couldn't stand watching 3 hours of youtube I grabbed some (as much as possible) unbiased reviews.
Much easier to read and then reference back.
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/ https://tacticmethod.com/the-game-changers-scientific-review-and-references/ https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/ https://perfectketo.com/game-changers-movie-fact-check/ and the Chris Kresser reference list https://chriskresser.com/debunking-the-game-changers-joe-rogan/
I looked for, but could not find, a reference for the film that tried to support it as a valid documentary.
I'll quote a reviewers final statement
"This film would be closest to a comedy, because it’s a joke. I didn’t even address all the ludicrous claims in the video, I simply picked out the most egregious claims. I would have needed to hire extra staff to fully debunk this steaming pile of dung. It helps no one and does not move veganism forward and will do nothing but further confuse the average person through misrepresentation of science and fear mongering.
F-, we are all dumber for having watched this, and may God have mercy on your souls."
I understand not wanting to listen to the stressful sounding debate, but the reason its more appropriate is because its two sided - the doc guy is given the chance to address the claims made against him, which he does. In your review links, its one sided and biased with no response. Hell, look at your quoted final statement there. It sounds like the stereotypical kind of douchebag you see on youtube who's made a career out of being an asshole... there is nothing in that statement worthy of consideration to me, its a total turn off to anything worth saying as a valid critique... but this is what you chose to quote as a highlighted response? Seems to say quite a lot to me about your mindset in approaching this subject...
Chris Kresser is the guy being debated in the JRE episode.. if you seriously want to include his info as your reference, then I have a very hard time understanding why you don't want to hear the response to his debunking, unless its just because you actually don't care about what's true, you just care about being right
menshealth? Sorry don't trust em. perfectketo? Ahh, surely no bias / agenda there..
The other couple sites I don't know about. May have a glance at them but I'm not feeling to encouraged based on the entirety of your post
Edited by pixelpopper (12/17/19 12:20 PM)
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YangSupporter
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) *DELETED* [Re: pixelpopper]
#26386961 - 12/17/19 12:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by YangSupporter
Reason for deletion: Q
Edited by Doc9151 (12/18/19 10:05 AM)
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pixelpopper
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Re: Game Changers (Plant Based Diet documentary by UFC dude) [Re: YangSupporter] 1
#26386965 - 12/17/19 12:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YangSupporter said: Fuck you 
Seriously dude? wow..
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