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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right?
    #26383722 - 12/15/19 07:05 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

“We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.”

― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas






    "Like every great religion, we seek to find the divinity within and to express this revelation in a life of glorification and the worship of God. These ancient goals we define in the metaphor of the present—turn on, tune in, drop out."
-Timothy Leary


    Playful, prankish and/or ornery “Machine Elves” (or “gnomes” and “tykes” as McKenna puts it) who often focus on joking or helping to clean the individual
    Anthropomorphic beings (who appear to be “extra terrestrial” or “ultra-dimensional” teachers or guardians) including reptiles, bees, spiders, cacti, mantises, arachnids, robots, jellyfish, octopods, and…. clowns.
    “Helpers” or “guides” taking the semi humanoid form of angels or multidimensional teachers. These can often manifest as deceased loved ones or family members giving guidance and teaching lessons, and are known to include religious icons and prophets like Buddha, Jesus Christ, Krishna, Mohammed, and more.
    Sci-fi aliens fitting descriptions of greys, blues, reptilians, Pleidans, Arcturians and more, employing the use of probes, implants, or surgeries usually for ‘research or ‘healing purposes.’
    Some type of “galactic council” of spiritual elders looking to impart knowledge, laws and instructions for behavior


Hunter was a drunk
Leary and Mckenna as someone on this forum put it so brilliantly "Got lost in the sauce"

Who do you think is right?


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."



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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26383775 - 12/15/19 07:38 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You must decide what is truth.  We cannot count all the strands of truth in the web of life.  That is why organized religion, organized schools of thought fail.

Only experience can teach.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26384597 - 12/16/19 09:33 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Tolerating and embracing other cultures also involves recognition that the various functional truth systems are not the same as chemistry and physics but they work within the confines of their social systems.

[4 and 5 centuries ago religious groups would splinter off and form "communes" (like hippies) in the new world ("what a trip!") which led to "America" and our new normal of Alternate Truths.]

Thompson may have been the most clever among the 3 sooth sayers in your list, but his cosmology was not better or worse than Tevye's from Fiddler on the Roof. Inaccurate at best.

Until we are all in accord about the meaning of all words, and of science and psychology, we each will still live in "functionally true" worlds that are different yet consistent enough to operate predictably as we plug into our various personal, social, and cultural activities.

These are Low Resolution Truths, like old wives tales, and they carry inaccuracies and untruths yet may still seem to be reliable ideas in the cultures that use them. (Not the same as disputing the numbers that turned out to see Trump's inauguration - that is patently false to everyone although we could say that Trump is in a social group of one and is entitled to beliefs that do not coincide with anything outside of his functioning reality (i.e. where you pay people to pretend you are right).)

as such, what we believe may be true enough, and need only become truer if we care to do work with others to improve the mess in the world (like the environment, the economy, education, etc.).

In any case, I don't find too much inspiration in Terrence or Timothy, and what I like about Hunter is not his deep wisdom but his literary panache. Collaborative truth needs inspiration like Greta Thunberg.


--------------------


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26385122 - 12/16/19 03:09 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

"Who do you think is right?"

IMO none of them

then again who is right Bach, Beetohven, Mozart, Led Zepplin, or Howling Wolf?

Seems the better question might be: 'What do you like, about their views, and how do you think they effected history, and what can we learn from them?' sort of thing.

Personally, I don't think psychedelics will ever transform society. I expect climate change will kill us first. It remains to be seen what happens with micro dosing though.

Another aspect / question is what can we learn for native peoples / shamanic use of psychedelics? An interesting subject. For some few it seems to provide 'personal growth', but again I don't think this approach will ever transform society.

If I had to choose between recent white guys, I would say Alan Watts was the most fun, most interesting, and the most balanced.

https://holybooks-lichtenbergpress.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/joyous_cosmology.pdf

But of course  Thompson was the funniest - I love the movie: with Johnny Depp
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120669/?ref_=nm_knf_i1

Just my 2 cents.


--------------------



Edited by laughingdog (12/16/19 03:19 PM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26385171 - 12/16/19 03:31 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Mckennas whole thing was question everything.

Idk what could be wrong about that.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26385214 - 12/16/19 04:00 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Mckennas whole thing was question everything.



Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't mind being ostracized from time to time.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26385236 - 12/16/19 04:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I can question stuff on my own. Without alerting others.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26385503 - 12/16/19 07:01 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Questioning yourself more shouldn't be a problem.  Questioning all else tends to have some issues.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26386402 - 12/17/19 05:29 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Ever seen that movie altered states?
Maybe the whole experience just helps us regress to the most primal instinctual parts of ourselves.

Narcotics and other psychotropic drugs fog this up

I think in a lot of ways societal conditioning does the same


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."



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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26386403 - 12/17/19 05:31 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

One of the greatest drunks who ever lived, right up there with Hemingway.

Fear and loathing is probably the funniest book I have ever read, I would literally have to stop every half page and just laugh.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."



Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/17/19 05:45 AM)


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26386876 - 12/17/19 01:16 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Never saw the movie.

Most boggled thing is there is no real higher truth.  If there is universal truth, it is personal not collective.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleAntigov
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26386891 - 12/17/19 01:30 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

A part of me likes Terrence Mckenna, another part of me thinks he likes to hear himself talk.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Antigov] * 1
    #26387040 - 12/17/19 03:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

That is true among high people.  Either they're quiet and listen or talk and talk and talk.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26395752 - 12/22/19 04:53 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
“We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.”

― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas




Brilliant and accurate. Ultimately, there is no holy grail pill you can take to form a brilliant mind. We are born with lessor minds and through lots of effort you can arrive at a higher mind. Things that work for higher minds don't necessarily work for lessor minds. Things that work for rich people who can buffer negative consequences with money don't work for poor people. Powerful things shouldn't be played with. Everything in moderation. Have a purpose and understanding before playing with fire. Don't play with fire.. Instead, control it and let it warm you.

or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.”
Profound....

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
    "Like every great religion, we seek to find the divinity within and to express this revelation in a life of glorification and the worship of God. These ancient goals we define in the metaphor of the present—turn on, tune in, drop out."
-Timothy Leary




There's better quotes from Leary, ultimately no matter where you go there you are.


Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
    Playful, prankish and/or ornery “Machine Elves” (or “gnomes” and “tykes” as McKenna puts it) who often focus on joking or helping to clean the individual
    Anthropomorphic beings (who appear to be “extra terrestrial” or “ultra-dimensional” teachers or guardians) including reptiles, bees, spiders, cacti, mantises, arachnids, robots, jellyfish, octopods, and…. clowns.    “Helpers” or “guides” taking the semi humanoid form of angels or multidimensional teachers. These can often manifest as deceased loved ones or family members giving guidance and teaching lessons, and are known to include religious icons and prophets like Buddha, Jesus Christ, Krishna, Mohammed, and more.
    Sci-fi aliens fitting descriptions of greys, blues, reptilians, Pleidans, Arcturians and more, employing the use of probes, implants, or surgeries usually for ‘research or ‘healing purposes.’
    Some type of “galactic council” of spiritual elders looking to impart knowledge, laws and instructions for behavior




A commonly misunderstood aspect of the experience... 'Transcendent Ayyys'. his interpretation is a fundamental misunderstanding.


Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
Hunter was a drunk




Yet has the best quote here...


Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
Leary and Mckenna as someone on this forum put it so brilliantly "Got lost in the sauce"

Who do you think is right?



I prefer Alan Watts to Leary/McKenna... even then, he became lost in the sauce towards the outer reaches of interpretation... inspiring but not to be entertained beyond the initial kick in thinking.

Hunter has the best and most profound quote here.


Edited by r00tcmplx (12/22/19 08:29 PM)


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26395799 - 12/22/19 05:22 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

"Don't play with fire.. Instead, control it and let it warm you."

I LIKE THAT :mushroom2:


"Hunter was a drunk"



"Yet has the best quote here..."

Ive found that there's a certain brutal honesty and objectiveness, alcoholics, and especially aging alcoholics have.

The mix of the booze and that "I don't give a fuck" attitude older people tend to develop.

Kind of like people say with George W Bush.
Anyone who's ever met him will tell you all he does is joke and that he's never serious about anything.

"Inside every cynical person is a disappointed idealist."
-George Carlin


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."



Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/22/19 05:40 PM)


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Hunter S. Thompson or Terence mckenna/Timothy Leary - Whos right? [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26396115 - 12/22/19 08:31 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
"Don't play with fire.. Instead, control it and let it warm you."

I LIKE THAT :mushroom2:


"Hunter was a drunk"



"Yet has the best quote here..."

Ive found that there's a certain brutal honesty and objectiveness, alcoholics, and especially aging alcoholics have.

The mix of the booze and that "I don't give a fuck" attitude older people tend to develop.

Kind of like people say with George W Bush.
Anyone who's ever met him will tell you all he does is joke and that he's never serious about anything.

"Inside every cynical person is a disappointed idealist."
-George Carlin



:raisemyglass:


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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Amazon Terrence McKenna

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