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bodhisatta 
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Believing psychedelics have anything to do with 4
#26382749 - 12/15/19 06:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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"ego death" is profoundly stupid.
Not a single person in the history of humanity has had ego death because of any psychedelic drug. They may have temporarily felt that way while high. In many ways the people who talk about ego death are really just showing how their psychedelic lessons strengthened their ego.
That's all.
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feevers


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26382792 - 12/15/19 06:59 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: In many ways the people who talk about ego death are really just showing how their psychedelic lessons strengthened their ego.
Typically my exact thought when I've watched any psychedelic youtube channel. Idk that the lessons themselves affected the ego, but I think a lot of people have some sort of feeling of superiority after having such profound experiences, and would rather talk about it than actually put in the work of integrating it.
Ego dissolution while on psychedelics can be pretty easy, it mostly just seems to come down to letting go completelty for me. I also think extreme focus, flow states and ecstatic behavior can bring it on. If you're experienced with meditation it can take only a very small amount to get you to that point, or even none at all. But yea it's no permanent thing at all, sometimes the ego even seems to come back stronger after.
It's a pretty subjective thing I guess, but I think the fMRI studies showing the rerouting of info around the DMN are showing some physiological correlations. If I remember correctly a recent study correlated the time spent in these specific "ego-less/flow" states with better long outcomes, but I don't remember the specifics.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta]
#26382800 - 12/15/19 07:09 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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THANK YOU!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: larry.fisherman]
#26382805 - 12/15/19 07:15 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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You can't correlate fMRI to ego. Because ego isn't defined in terms of brain activity yet. It's loosely defined as a psychological influence. It's part of a model for consciousness and that model may be completely wrong.
Quote:
larry.fisherman said: THANK YOU!
Other day heard some kids talking about ego death again... PROtip: if you mention ego death after a trip it definitely didn't happen
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta]
#26382819 - 12/15/19 07:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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ACTUALLY...
...I can't really argue against this point.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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igorcarajo
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26382894 - 12/15/19 08:27 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is “ego death”?
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The lurker


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: igorcarajo] 2
#26382926 - 12/15/19 08:54 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Cool. So is this post. It’s more a way of describing something that’s hard to describe
I smoked 60mg of dmt one time when I was 17, there was no “me” left at all, everything I knew as myself (Ego) literally shattered and exploded. I’d say I was convinced I died but there was no me to be convinced I died
What’s the big deal with people describing that as an “ego death” experience? Or lack of experience lol
I think the dude so butthurt about people using a specific word is the one who could use an ego death  
P.s. I don’t even use this word anymore you guys just sound like angry 10 year olds about it
Edited by The lurker (12/15/19 09:03 AM)
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igorcarajo
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: The lurker] 1
#26382986 - 12/15/19 09:21 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe bodhisatta can explain what he understands “ego death” to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta]
#26383254 - 12/15/19 12:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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agreed, psychedelics reconfigure perception with less absolute certainty and less knee-jerk associative response (habituated behavior)
this frequently enables experiences that can roll into spiritual states such as ego death, or other experiential syntheses such as where all is one, where timelessness pervades, or having direct cognition of the wheel of life - etc.
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: The lurker] 1
#26383296 - 12/15/19 12:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The lurker said: Cool. So is this post. It’s more a way of describing something that’s hard to describe
I smoked 60mg of dmt one time when I was 17, there was no “me” left at all, everything I knew as myself (Ego) literally shattered and exploded. I’d say I was convinced I died but there was no me to be convinced I died
What’s the big deal with people describing that as an “ego death” experience? Or lack of experience lol
I think the dude so butthurt about people using a specific word is the one who could use an ego death  
P.s. I don’t even use this word anymore you guys just sound like angry 10 year olds about it
I don’t have a horse in this race because I don’t care either way but what I believe that Bod is implying is that “death” describes something permanent thus “ego death” would be a permanent loss of ones ego which, as Bod correctly points out, has never happened. One may lose their sense and orientation of ego during a trip and have profound changes to it thereafter but it returns as soon as you come down.
A true ego death would be permanent and there would be no you to come back and describe ego death. And if something did come back it would be a different ego so it couldn’t describe the death of the previous ego.
Also I don’t think people here are butthurt, some people just have strong feelings towards certain topics, not a bad thing. I think it’s an interesting topic either way.
I’ve never experienced something as intense as what many describe their “ego death” experiences as but I definitely can say that my ego is quieter during every trip. It’s there just less neurotic and in the way than when I’m sober.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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Edited by Socrateshroom (12/15/19 12:38 PM)
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#26383317 - 12/15/19 12:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was almost going to call it "temporary ego disassociation".
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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mushboy
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: Loaded Shaman] 2
#26383369 - 12/15/19 01:41 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Imo some people are so 'ego' driven and centered that when they take a drug and experience 'ego loss' they can only see it as a death because ego is so much apart of who they think they are.
A persons mannerism is a good way to gauge this.
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nooneman


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta] 2
#26383445 - 12/15/19 02:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ego death has nothing to do with "ego" as in "egotistical" it has to do with the Freudian version of the word referring to the conscious self. Egodeath just means the destruction of the sense of self, for example losing control of one's own mind and having your sense of self, identity, and control be replaced with uncontrollable mindfuck. It's a temporary state caused by the effects of psychedelics, not a permanent state.
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openmind
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: feevers] 1
#26383670 - 12/15/19 04:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Ego death has nothing to do with "ego" as in "egotistical" it has to do with the Freudian version of the word referring to the conscious self. Egodeath just means the destruction of the sense of self, for example losing control of one's own mind and having your sense of self, identity, and control be replaced with uncontrollable mindfuck. It's a temporary state caused by the effects of psychedelics, not a permanent state.

As much as I can't stand the term "ego death" , ^ that's basically what comes to mind and the sort of stuff I'm referring to when I have used the term "ego death" in the past.
But it's a term, just like the term "break-through", that has become a bit cringe to me in ways for a long time now lol....From how it's thrown around so much to how people feel like it's something that must be achieved or some goal they're trying to reach, to how some folks feel like they've had an "ego death" experience and have an inflated ego because of it...there are all sorts of reasons I don't like the term lol.
...but psychedelics can certainly catalyze one's self/identity to dissolve (during the trip), and have a lasting impact on one's self/"ego" (no doubt most of us would agree psychedelics can have quite an impact on one's self)....That's what comes to my mind when I hear someone say those two words. I've never considered it to be something that is "permanent", as if one is walking around in their day to day life no longer with an "ego" after having "ego death" during a trip.
Quote:
feevers said: Ego dissolution while on psychedelics can be pretty easy, it mostly just seems to come down to letting go completelty for me. I also think extreme focus, flow states and ecstatic behavior can bring it on. If you're experienced with meditation it can take only a very small amount to get you to that point, or even none at all. But yea it's no permanent thing at all, sometimes the ego even seems to come back stronger after.
Same here.
And I share the same sentiment.
Mushrooms specifically tend to nudge me into states like extreme focus and flow.
-OM
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Cujllickduo



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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: openmind]
#26383815 - 12/15/19 05:58 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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time for a line of ket and must share the feels onboard with you that its been a mission to not post anything and feeling very disconnected.
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Cujllickduo



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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: Cujllickduo]
#26383834 - 12/15/19 06:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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got beer bought to open n just relaxing is very difficult when im me
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coAsTal
Friend


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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta]
#26383854 - 12/15/19 06:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: "ego death" is profoundly stupid.
Not a single person in the history of humanity has had ego death because of any psychedelic drug. They may have temporarily felt that way while high. In many ways the people who talk about ego death are really just showing how their psychedelic lessons strengthened their ego.
That's all.
-------------------- I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats Spore Trading List
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Aldebaran
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26384171 - 12/15/19 09:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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It seems a bit pointless to get outraged by the use of the term "ego death" in relation to psychedelics, it's hardly a new thing and you can usually tell what people mean by the context or the description they give of an experience. If they don't give a context the term becomes fairly meaningless due to the variety of ways it is used.
Quote:
They may have temporarily felt that way while high
I think when people ask about ego death in this forum that is usually what they are talking about, "ego death" as a temporary experience while they are high on mushrooms. Occasionally someone might ask "is it permanent?" but I think most people would understand there is a big difference between a lifelong spiritual quest involving meditation with some kind of permanent enlightenment as the goal, and a mushroom trip with "ego death" as a goal.
The underlying problem is that there is a lack of available terms or concepts to describe psychedelic experiences, so over time terms from Buddhism e.t.c. get co-opted because they seem to express the same feelings and ideas in some way.
From a couple of other threads:
Quote:
Aldebaran wrote: I always try to remember that 'ego death' is in many ways a spiritual ideal that you are not going to experience in a perfect way on psychedelics. You are tripping, not becoming a Buddha. You are not dying and entering nirvana. The effect is temporary, a glimpse, not a shortcut to permanent enlightenment.
It is more to the point that you get a taste of there being something beyond your usual sense of self, whether you think of it as an encounter with your unconscious, a fundamental state of existence that lies beyond death, or whatever. This feels like an awakening and is a very powerful transcendent experience.
Quote:
Aldebaran wrote: I don't take all this too literally - I think the whole exercise of comparing psychedelics to esoteric versions of Buddhism has to be taken with a pinch of salt - it's fun as an intellectual 'game' but I can understand why it annoys people (not that it stops me posting about it) 
Ultimately, the trips speak for themselves and if you delve into the mushroom experience you will find all kinds of things down there...
-------------------- I wrote that, but I meant something else
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WhoManBeing
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: Aldebaran]
#26384183 - 12/15/19 09:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Relativity, using words. As with any science biased opinion can sway results. Use of words able communicate to each other. How people communicate, let it roll however may.
Let hope be limitless for all. And let each find hope as best he may. Robert Frost said to his high school class graduation.
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Believing psychedelics have anything to do with [Re: bodhisatta]
#26384186 - 12/15/19 09:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: "ego death" is profoundly stupid.
Not a single person in the history of humanity has had ego death because of any psychedelic drug. They may have temporarily felt that way while high. In many ways the people who talk about ego death are really just showing how their psychedelic lessons strengthened their ego.
That's all.
Probably because there's really no such thing as "ego death" - it's just a modern term signifying some sort of loss of self identity.
If by this post you're contrasting it to the enlightenment that can result from Buddhist practice, it's really not a contest. 
But that has little to do with "ego" dying, it's a state beyond any discrimination or attachment to mental states. Completely different sort of thing.
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