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InvisibleAsante
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Holland is starting to become a Cuntry.
    #26380532 - 12/14/19 03:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

They are eroding the cannabis tolerance policy
They are eroding the sale of shrooms
They are raping the concept of universal health care
They refuse to modernize the racial stereotype of Black Pete
They are working to illegalize the New Years fireworks tradition
We are getting warnings that national policies violate refugee human rights
We mass-import chemical waste, mix it with fuel oil & fuel ships with it.
We're a corporate tax haven and a resident's taxation hell.
Tourists start avoiding Amsterdam cause the fun has died there.


What. The. Fuck.

Personally my main blame is that the average age in my cuntry is as high as 46. Its become a country of OLD PEOPLE, and this in the sense of Get Off My Lawn old and not as in community elder wisdom.

The tolerance for things young and young-minded people appreciate is dying.
The endgame of greed at the expense of everyone else is taking over.

Its truly disgusting.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26380538 - 12/14/19 03:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, for realz?

Thats really surprizing and downright sad. I wonder why thats happening.....

A damn shame :nonono:


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26380552 - 12/14/19 04:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
...
They refuse to modernize the racial stereotype of Black Pete
...




Here's a question...
why aren't Santa's helpers elves?
recognize that the existing stereotyped helper is from colonial periods
but when Santa and the elves became popularized in other areas (or was this just English influenced traditions?)
why did Holland go another way

got something against elves?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante] * 2
    #26380560 - 12/14/19 04:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Actually Santa Claus is derivative of Sinterklaas and it was considered inappropriate to use the Black Pete figure so they went with Elves.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante] * 3
    #26380562 - 12/14/19 04:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I know, but the problems are becoming kind of significant, so it is only logical that something's gotta give. You can debate which solutions would be the most appropriate, sensible and bearable, but the fact that things are changing is inevitable in my view.

Quote:

Asante said:
They are eroding the cannabis tolerance policy



Given that the cannabis industry is basically one of organized and increasingly violent crime revolving around massive flows of currency, it's plain to see that the current approach has reached its limits. Repression? Legalization? It's not clear what would be an appropriate solution. The tendency towards a more repressive policy does not seem appealing to me either, but the criminal landscape as you are undoubtedly also aware of does ask for some kind of sanitation approach.

Quote:

They are eroding the sale of shrooms



Significantly? I mean, has the situation changed much over the past decade or so? It doesn't seem like a particular spearhead of policy at this point. The problems surrounding stuff like GHB and nitrous are receiving a lot more attention, and understandably so as they are currently triggering memories of the heroin epidemic of the 1980s in terms of social and health problems accruing from irresponsible use.

Quote:

They are raping the concept of universal health care



As you pointed out, the population is aging on average. Add to that the increasing availability of more complex (and expensive) treatments, turning previously relatively quickly lethal ailments into long-term disease with sometimes fairly 'good' chances of survival, the R&D and market dynamics crisis we are seeing concerning pharmaceuticals and bureaucratic pressure on the health sector (largely accruing from decreasing risk and uncertainty acceptance of our society at large), it is plain to see that costs are rising to unsustainable levels. If you consume too much of something that is becoming more and more costly, it follows that you reach the limits of what is feasible at some point. The logical response of passing the costs to the individual user is not surprising, and in the end is not very different from bearing the same costs collectively; it's a distribution choice. But the fundamental solution is not even in sight.

Quote:

They refuse to modernize the racial stereotype of Black Pete



I think you're being pessimistic at this point. Twenty years ago, it simply wasn't up for discussion. A decade ago, there was barely a debate about it, but there was a start. Currently, it's an annually recurring issue with increasing numbers of people choosing not to include this particular piece of heritage in their festivities, discussing with their kids the background and ethical issues related to it. And yes, there's of course also opposition to this change, but keep in mind that this opposition was the de facto default view only a few years ago, and it has now become a viewpoint that some feel need to be defended in the face of inevitable change. If you feel that this change is not happening fast enough, then I understand what you say, but at a societal level, there is no 'refusal' to change - quite the opposite. But it's an evolutionary change process instead of an overnight revolution.

Quote:

They are working to illegalize the New Years fireworks tradition



Again, in the face of environmental, safety and criminal issues, it's kind of logical that we're starting to figure out where to draw the line. This tradition has seen quite widespread growth over the past 40 years or so and I think we've come to the point where you need to debate to what extent you really want to continue this. Only a few years ago, permissible explosive charges in consumer fireworks were stretched significantly to keep up and to try and put a limit to illegal distribution. And yet, in the city you live in, you must have noticed that it can get a little noisy in December at times. I mean, the kind of explosions we get on a daily basis all across town are not really something that fit in an urban environment unless it's a war zone. So again, the fact that there's a debate about how far we should take things isn't exactly surprising.

Quote:

We are getting warnings that national policies violate refugee human rights



I think neither you or I are quite happy with how refugees are being treated, as at a human level, we'd wish the best for every individual regardless of background, nationality etc. But here again, given developments over the past 30 years or so, I think it's kind of inescapable that the challenge of dealing with refugee flows has become significantly larger and it's not necessarily straightforward to make everyone happy, including elements in our society who are not very happy to see more strangers appear. Can we do better? I surely hope so.

Quote:

We mass-import chemical waste, mix it with fuel oil & fuel ships with it.



And that certainly needs to be brought to public scrutiny in order to improve the situation. Again, taking a historical perspective, I'm not sure if I agree that we're going down the drain in this sense. Was the chemical waste situation that much better in, say, the 1980s?

Quote:

We're a corporate tax haven and a resident's taxation hell.



Well, you made an argument for better healthcare - how are you going to pay for it if you don't want individuals to bear the brunt of their own health issues? It's kind of easy to want all the nice things, but not wanting to pay for it. And yes, the corporate tax haven thing has gotten out of hand, it's not necessarily helping our economy, and the problem has become quite visible as well with baby steps being taken to put a stop to it. Again, no overnight change is to be expected, but the whole issue of CSR is increasingly getting attention across society.

Quote:

Tourists start avoiding Amsterdam cause the fun has died there.



And why is that? Because the tourist pressure has simply run out of hand. The city has become virtually uninhabitable if you ask me (and my friends and family who try to despite the odds being against middle-income people inhabiting this part of the country). There's only so many tourists a place can absorb before it gets uncomfortable for all involved, and Amsterdam is no different in that sense than Venice, Rome, Barcelona and a host of other places. It's just a pretty small place if you think about it. And it doesn't help that still, many of those tourists are attracted by its hedonistic reputation, while in reality, it just creates a massive nuisance. Honestly, take a walk through Vondelpark on any given day of the week and you'll be in for a very depressing experience.

All of your complaints are certainly relevant, but it's kind of easy to blame it on 'them' (whoever the fuck they are), holding 'greed' responsible etc. Any society evolves, and this change brings challenges. You named a few, and you're right about them, but I very much dislike your implication that this is somehow not about you. You are as much part of this society as anyone else. You're part of the problem, whether you like it or not, as we all are. Do you want to be part of the solution as well, or are you satisfied just whining about it?


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: koraks]
    #26380578 - 12/14/19 04:35 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

i blame corporate interest


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: koraks]
    #26380592 - 12/14/19 04:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koraks said:

Quote:

Asante said:
They are eroding the cannabis tolerance policy



Given that the cannabis industry is basically one of organized and increasingly violent crime revolving around massive flows of currency, it's plain to see that the current approach has reached its limits. Repression? Legalization? It's not clear what would be an appropriate solution. The tendency towards a more repressive policy does not seem appealing to me either, but the criminal landscape as you are undoubtedly also aware of does ask for some kind of sanitation approach.






Very obviously to us and growing parts of the world, complete legalization is the answer. The only reason crime took a straglehold over the cannabis trade was because it was only halfcocked legalization. We need to go all out, like the other states and nations in the legalization wave.


Quote:

koraks said:


Quote:

They are eroding the sale of shrooms



Significantly? I mean, has the situation changed much over the past decade or so? It doesn't seem like a particular spearhead of policy at this point. The problems surrounding stuff like GHB and nitrous are receiving a lot more attention, and understandably so as they are currently triggering memories of the heroin epidemic of the 1980s in terms of social and health problems accruing from irresponsible use.
?




I still regret that.


Quote:

koraks said:

Quote:

They are working to illegalize the New Years fireworks tradition



Again, in the face of environmental, safety and criminal issues, it's kind of logical that we're starting to figure out where to draw the line. This tradition has seen quite widespread growth over the past 40 years or so and I think we've come to the point where you need to debate to what extent you really want to continue this. Only a few years ago, permissible explosive charges in consumer fireworks were stretched significantly to keep up and to try and put a limit to illegal distribution. And yet, in the city you live in, you must have noticed that it can get a little noisy in December at times. I mean, the kind of explosions we get on a daily basis all across town are not really something that fit in an urban environment unless it's a war zone. So again, the fact that there's a debate about how far we should take things isn't exactly surprising.





Fireworks are a discharge of pent up energies, both on the chemical level and on a societyal level. Prohibit fireworks and society will become more of a powder keg because we are no longer setting it off anymore.

I'm religious about being pro-fireworks, From the clap of hands to the Big Bang, God is a Pyrotechnician and wants us to rejoice in the cosmic fireworks and actively, alchemistically, take part in them.

Pointless to argue this with me :laugh: 


Quote:

koraks said:

All of your complaints are certainly relevant, but it's kind of easy to blame it on 'them' (whoever the fuck they are)




I'm not holding an archetypal "them" responsible, instead I point at the fact that the average age in our country has gotten to 46, the age in which your kids, if any, have left the house.

There is an increasing disconnect between the needs of the youth and the interests of old people, and since old people run the show, the youth are increasingly screwed in our country. Their lives are increasingly sanitized, regulated and if they resist, medicated and criminalized.

IT SUCKS.

And people keep on listening to that stupid media brainwash that ligfhts more fires than extinguishes them -- we have it so good that we're turning into monsters.

The country is going off the rails, just like in the US, just like friggin everywhere.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26380596 - 12/14/19 04:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

What exactly about the shrooms? Are they going to ban truffles, and or psilo grow kits?
Shrooms have been banned for more than a decade already, but they still sell truffles and grow kits. That's why I ask..

-


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26380626 - 12/14/19 05:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pointless to argue this with me



Oh I get your point, don't worry. I like bangs and flashes as much as you do I think :wink: But you know, how far should we take it, that's the question.

Quote:

Pandemoon said:
What exactly about the shrooms? Are they going to ban truffles, and or psilo grow kits?
Shrooms have been banned for more than a decade already, but they still sell truffles and grow kits. That's why I ask..

-



Truffles are only quasi-legal due to a loophole in the legislation that was passed >10 years ago. It was not an intentional exclusion. Same for the grow kits.
I'm not too worried about psilo becoming unavailable to those who desire to do something with it. As long as one can walk into a suitable field in late autumn or winter and pick to their heart's content, it's not much of an issue.


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26380652 - 12/14/19 05:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Calling the Netherlands 'Holland' is like calling America 'New England', change my mind.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26380753 - 12/14/19 07:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Calling the Netherlands 'Holland' is like calling America 'New England', change my mind.




Some foreigners call Americans "Yankees" even if they dont live in New York :shrug:


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26380755 - 12/14/19 07:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It originated as a term just to refer to americans. It wasnt till the civil war that southerners adopted it t refer to northerners from new england. It never meant  new yorkers, that's just the name of a baseball team there, dude lol. To the whole world, yankee means american, as it were meant to be.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26380783 - 12/14/19 07:24 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

cause america used to only be new york when we were called yankees


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated]
    #26380945 - 12/14/19 09:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Seems where America goes so goes the free world.  America according to old timers is not legalizing anything.  They are reigning in control measures ie laws.

Watchng some SOMA videos, he didn't look happy either.  For some reason far right-ism is spreading across the fre world, making it less free.


Europe went through this in the past.  It cost millions of lives.  Right wingers try to distance themselves by sayig Nazi's were left wingers cause 'socialism' when that is not true.  Right wingers constantly prop themselves up by degrading special programs that benefit all of us.

Nationalism is also a symptom.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy] * 2
    #26380952 - 12/14/19 09:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone who falls into the “left/right” mind frame is the problem.  They’re all slaves and don’t even know it.  Worship your tv fools, just sit back and let it do all the thinking for you.  Find a channel that tells you what you want to hear! :awesomenod:


--------------------
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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26380960 - 12/14/19 09:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That is not productive and will go nowhere good.

Language is made up, all of it.  Should we just speak gibberish?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26380981 - 12/14/19 09:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Why so pessimistic Asante? Shrooms sales have been illegal since 2009. There's been zero motion in the cannabis policy. Tolerance, topless sunbathing and black Pete are dying together. This is just what we get for giving up our country to the EU. As Rammstein says: We're all living in America.. It's wunderbar

But all jokes aside, we're just moving along with this global trend that was started after domestic terrorists blew up the WTC with thermite. This is the plan and 'they' can't have a little nation full of subversive wiseguys


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26380999 - 12/14/19 09:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Lol, rust is 'thermite'.

They didn't need to do more than ignore intel.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26381007 - 12/14/19 09:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Lol, rust is 'thermite'.

They didn't need to do more than ignore intel.




Lol yes true. The occasion was however undeniably the kickstart of what is so eloquently described by the op.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26381022 - 12/14/19 09:59 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I fail to see the connection, however not rejecting the current state of affairs.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26381055 - 12/14/19 10:19 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That's the moment when everything started going south. I've lived here in NL all my life and I can't help but see the connection very clearly. We've been tricked into the 'current state of affairs' starting 2001


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26381062 - 12/14/19 10:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There seems to be some sort of far right agenda.  I agree that they made a lot of changes over a lot of years.  That 2001 was a more overt system of abusive change.

There's been a number of changes prior.  Who all the masterminds are, I dunno.  Probably American Right Wing Think Tanks.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26381079 - 12/14/19 10:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

We're not supposed to know who the masterminds are I guess..


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26381085 - 12/14/19 10:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Probably Right Wing Think Tanks.  They are private groups, funded by private donors.  They have a lot of political pull and do a lot of manipulative policy analytics.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26381151 - 12/14/19 11:24 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
They are eroding the cannabis tolerance policy
They are eroding the sale of shrooms
They are raping the concept of universal health care
They refuse to modernize the racial stereotype of Black Pete
They are working to illegalize the New Years fireworks tradition
We are getting warnings that national policies violate refugee human rights
We mass-import chemical waste, mix it with fuel oil & fuel ships with it.
We're a corporate tax haven and a resident's taxation hell.
Tourists start avoiding Amsterdam cause the fun has died there.


What. The. Fuck.

Personally my main blame is that the average age in my cuntry is as high as 46. Its become a country of OLD PEOPLE, and this in the sense of Get Off My Lawn old and not as in community elder wisdom.

The tolerance for things young and young-minded people appreciate is dying.
The endgame of greed at the expense of everyone else is taking over.

Its truly disgusting.




I've felt this exact way about my own country. Remember though to your spirit there's no concept of having a problem.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: yeah]
    #26381209 - 12/14/19 12:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

'tis the way of the world it seems. Given enough time and money and progress, this is where we end up.

Stages of empires, man.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26381222 - 12/14/19 12:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Holland is also very expensive.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy] * 3
    #26381225 - 12/14/19 12:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Probably Right Wing Think Tanks.  They are private groups, funded by private donors.  They have a lot of political pull and do a lot of manipulative policy analytics.



Yeah it’s got to be all those right folk.  If they could just listen to all the left folk we would get this place in shape..:thatsinteresting:

I sure am glad life only offers two avenues of thought, otherwise stuff would get tough to think..:thumbup:  At least we have that going for us.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26381230 - 12/14/19 12:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Holland is also very expensive.



No more so than any Westernised country. None of them vary by a significant degree. You need to travel to the third world to see what 'cheap' as compared to 'expensive' really is.

You can live like a king for $10/day if you know where to go in this world.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26381240 - 12/14/19 12:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Aussieland beats the US on price.  You can’t really just judge them flat across the board though, it’s a little more nuanced than that..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26381247 - 12/14/19 12:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I've lived in both places mate. Yeah, it costs a few extra cents for bread milk and eggs in Australia, and a few extra bucks for anything that's imported. It's really a very, very small difference though, when one has experienced what it is to suddenly find everything is 1/10th of the price or less in other countries.

No comparison at all.

If there's a truly expensive westernised country out there, look no further than Switzerland.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26381252 - 12/14/19 12:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Dubai is crazy like that. Go from the most expensive malls to the India Quarter and suddenly you can buy diner for $2


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26381269 - 12/14/19 12:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

From the bit I’ve looked into it and talked with people Aussieland tends to be about 50% more in cost, but income is more too so we need to come up with a scale.  Factor in rarity of ‘product’ too, something may be 2 cents somewhere but if the place is still in the stone age, you know what I’m saying?

I’ve never been to Switzerland but from what I’ve heard it’s the place to be.  I see it ranked in with the best places on earth to live.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26381270 - 12/14/19 12:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That sucks, but it'll swing back the other direction some day. It sucks that you have to watch your country go through something like that though.

The funny thing about the amsterdam tourists is that a lot of tourists used to go to amsterdam specifically for the "cafes" that they're now banned from, so surprise surprise tourism to amsterdam falls. Which is too bad because Holland has tons of awesome museums, parks, art, architecture, etc. But I feel like this was kinda the plan all along: make the cafes unpopular and then shut them down.

Politics goes back and forth like a pendulum, and in time it'll all come around again.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: nooneman]
    #26381289 - 12/14/19 01:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

"tourism to amsterdam falls."
Ah good. So when do you predict that will happen? Cause over the past decade it's been pretty much a fairly linear growth.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: koraks]
    #26381299 - 12/14/19 01:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Well I was just going by what Asante said. I wouldn't really know myself. He was the one who said it was falling.


Edited by nooneman (12/14/19 01:07 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26381342 - 12/14/19 01:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
From the bit I’ve looked into it and talked with people Aussieland tends to be about 50% more in cost



LOL I've got no idea who you've been talking to but that's bloody hogwash:

Quote:

Australia currently has the 12th highest cost of living in the world, with the USA and UK well behind at 21 and 23rd place respectively. The overall cost of living in Australia is 9% higher than the USA, but 10% cheaper than London. ...




--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26381385 - 12/14/19 01:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This infosite from the municipality of Amsterdam says tourism in Amsterdam is booming like never before: https://data.amsterdam.nl/artikelen/artikel/toerisme-in-amsterdam/5df34c3d-06be-40ca-ac8f-b0f8c05c2499/


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26381574 - 12/14/19 03:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Holland is also very expensive.



No more so than any Westernised country. None of them vary by a significant degree. You need to travel to the third world to see what 'cheap' as compared to 'expensive' really is.

You can live like a king for $10/day if you know where to go in this world.




They say poor 3rd world people live n that or less.  But I don't think they account housing cost into that.

I live on about $50 a day for everything.  Which is barely above poverty.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26381812 - 12/14/19 05:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

$33.26/day is the poverty line here. $1.90 in the poorest countries.

Almost half the humans in the world survive on less than $5.50/day.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26381823 - 12/14/19 05:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Well my housing is over 60% and almost 70% of my "income".  Plus I habe a dog who is about $100 a month roughly average.  No car, gotta walk or get a ride.

My case is unsual though.

My housing situation is good.  Things are fairly stable and stability goes a long way, no matter the lifestyle.  The Republicans wpuld like to fuck that up, to save a fraction of a penny over my lifetime.

I had a friend once that pushed me off his porch.  He got fired for failing a piss test.  He was upset not realizing my challanges, only thinking of his.

Some years ago I Figured a worker making 100k a year pays me a fraction of a penny over my life if they work and make that their whole career.  They pay more tax buying tpilet paper or gas than they pay me.

Truth is there are far more old people that are living longer.  Disability is very strict and the Republicans are delusional.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26381872 - 12/14/19 06:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Just move to Germany Asante.


--------------------


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26382029 - 12/14/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Actually Santa Claus is derivative of Sinterklaas and it was considered inappropriate to use the Black Pete figure so they went with Elves.




Well that sucks

was somehow under the impression that the Santa figure was more like in the Discworld series
where ancient rituals of sacrificing a boar on the solstice
eventually compounded into ideas of a big fat "Hogfather" who delivers presents around the solstice

you mean to tell me that Santa's origination is in the slave trade rather than an adaptation of Yule celebrations?


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tantrika]
    #26382037 - 12/14/19 08:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I heard santa was a muscaria inspired story.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26382495 - 12/15/19 12:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There is no real connection between slave trade and Sinterklaas. That was made up by the ppl who set to destroy our national traditions. Black Pete is black from entrring the houses through the chimney to leave presents for the kids.

Him having a black face was apparently too much to handle for the ultrasensitive so they made it a racial thing. Not hindered by any actual knowledge on the subject the international community picked this to make our annual children's party into some depicable slave thing and making the Dutch look like a bunch of racist fucks.

'They' go out of their way to kill national identities everywhere in the EU. This is how they did it in NL. We can't have a national identity. That would be racist I guess.. Sad

RIP Sint & Piet


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26382536 - 12/15/19 01:58 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:


Fireworks are a discharge of pent up energies, both on the chemical level and on a societyal level. Prohibit fireworks and society will become more of a powder keg because we are no longer setting it off anymore.

I'm religious about being pro-fireworks, From the clap of hands to the Big Bang, God is a Pyrotechnician and wants us to rejoice in the cosmic fireworks and actively, alchemistically, take part in them.

Pointless to argue this with me :laugh: 






How can you promote the use of fireworks, while you know a large portion of the country is against it, including most dog-owners and people with PTSD?
People who suffer from fireworks every year, people that even have to flee the country because of it?

Greets Hank


--------------------
Been away so long I hardly knew the place
Gee, it's good to be back home
Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
Honey disconnect the phone
I'm back in the USSA
You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the US
Back in the US
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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26382578 - 12/15/19 03:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

No, Pete was black because he was meant to be a Moor. That whole 'chimney-ash' workaround didn't come until far later, after people started saying 'this is definitely racist'


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: tomnl]
    #26382580 - 12/15/19 03:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tomnl said:
Quote:

Asante said:


Fireworks are a discharge of pent up energies, both on the chemical level and on a societyal level. Prohibit fireworks and society will become more of a powder keg because we are no longer setting it off anymore.

I'm religious about being pro-fireworks, From the clap of hands to the Big Bang, God is a Pyrotechnician and wants us to rejoice in the cosmic fireworks and actively, alchemistically, take part in them.

Pointless to argue this with me :laugh: 






How can you promote the use of fireworks, while you know a large portion of the country is against it, including most dog-owners and people with PTSD?
People who suffer from fireworks every year, people that even have to flee the country because of it?

Greets Hank



As predictably non-sensical as Asante's explanation for loving fireworks is, just out of curiousity I would like to hear your tales of people 'fleeing the country' because of fireworks.


--------------------


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382582 - 12/15/19 03:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thats not true at all. Black Pete originates in far older Pagan traditions


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382589 - 12/15/19 03:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
No, Pete was black because he was meant to be a Moor. That whole 'chimney-ash' workaround didn't come until far later, after people started saying 'this is definitely racist'




Moors are not black like Pete is. Not even close. Your version of the story is as much a myth as mine is and all of the national tradition of Sinterklaas is. It's a myth for children to believe in. Teach them some stuff and later on about giving them presents, accompanied by a little poem that was usually also meant to be personal and educational. Kids don't go likr hmm, maybe this coulf be interpreted as racist. I'll distance myself from it. Instead they'll go Yay! A present!

Simple as that


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Offlinetomnl
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382592 - 12/15/19 03:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)





As predictably non-sensical as Asante's explanation for loving fireworks is, just out of curiousity I would like to hear your tales of people 'fleeing the country' because of fireworks.




I dont have to provide proofs. Tell me your tales of children ´not being able to celebrate st. nicolas day, because its being too racist´

Greets Hank


--------------------
Been away so long I hardly knew the place
Gee, it's good to be back home
Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
Honey disconnect the phone
I'm back in the USSA
You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the US
Back in the US
Back in the USSA


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: tomnl]
    #26382595 - 12/15/19 03:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Even on the Shroomery, fireworks haters and black pete apologists everywhere :mad:




--------------------
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26382597 - 12/15/19 03:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Says the guy who complains Dutch tolerance is going down the drain..


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26382600 - 12/15/19 03:35 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Dutch Tolerance never was Dutch Acceptance.


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26382602 - 12/15/19 03:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Acceptance of what? Fireworks :smile:?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26382604 - 12/15/19 03:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

We used to accept fireworks, we no longer tolerate it.

Gedoogbeleid is on its way out.

We seek more and more the side of oppression, restriction.

Climate is becoming more hostile towards foreigners too.


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26382610 - 12/15/19 03:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
We used to accept fireworks, we no longer tolerate it.

Gedoogbeleid is on its way out.

We seek more and more the side of oppression, restriction.

Climate is becoming more hostile towards foreigners too.




Sure I see those things happening too. We can at least agree on that. Doubt if it's a Dutch only thing though. We're being Europanized / Americanized -> globalized..

National identity is being banned, as is manhood, around the western world

Alas. At least we still have the photos


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq] * 2
    #26382613 - 12/15/19 03:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The pagan tradition it stems from is obviously much different than the tradition it developed into, as with most modern traditions. The modern incantation started as a black moor from Spain. Yes berbers are typically arab not black, but native Magherebine Berbers are black and were typically seen on the arab slave market. Read a darn book. Or literally just look it up, dude, lol


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382617 - 12/15/19 03:58 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
The pagan tradition it stems from is obviously much different than the tradition it developed into, as with most modern traditions. The modern incantation started as a black moor from Spain. Yes berbers are typically arab not black, but native Magherebine Berbers are black and were typically seen on the arab slave market. Read a darn book. Or literally just look it up, dude, lol




I have read the same books, probably more than most. Who says I dunno? My point is it's been the chimney myth throughout our lifetimes so what are we talking about? The tradition has evoluated over time as traditions do. Even if at some point in history the story was not politically correct in the eyes of today's ppl.


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26382619 - 12/15/19 04:03 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It is silly and childish to continue a tradition of black face and swap it up with "chimney ash". But I do think that it's cute that in the same post you claim to know more about it than most people, you back down from your point that it was always chimney ash and never black face and change your argument.

Suit yourself but I wouldnt bring my kid up with black face traditions that are an unfortunate remnant from the colonial era that everyone seems to be able to get past except for some Dutch people, for some reason. But im sure youre on the right side of history and people will be celebrating such a lighthearted, tolerant tradition till the end of time.


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382625 - 12/15/19 04:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I was brought up that way. And there's nothing wrong with me. The past is the past. It's why NL is rich. Or are you prepared to distance yourself from that too? Lemme guess..


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tweeq]
    #26382627 - 12/15/19 04:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You were brought up under a racist tradition that you now blindly want to continue perpetuating because you grew up with it :shrug:

No one here is arguing that colonialism wasnt ungodly profitable. Kind of concerning for you to be leaning on that lol.... Makes me think you dont exactly see this as a 'chimney-ash' tradition.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26382635 - 12/15/19 04:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
As predictably non-sensical as Asante's explanation for loving fireworks is, just out of curiousity I would like to hear your tales of people 'fleeing the country' because of fireworks.



A friend of mine (who happens to be a dog owner, although that's just part of the story) has 'fled' to the isles for years now at new year's eve mostly because of the fireworks. And he certainly isn't the only one. While the majority of people don't bother, there's a significant and seemingly growing number of people who seek out quiter spots these days to get away from the (in their view) madness.

Quote:

Asante said:
We used to accept fireworks, we no longer tolerate it.



Like I said, the situation concerning fireworks has changed if you compare it to a decade or two ago. There's a lot more of it and it's much heavier as well, these days. It's not a matter of not tolerating at all, but some people arguing that there needs to be a limit to it.

Quote:

Gedoogbeleid is on its way out.



Doesn't look like it. We're struggling with the inherent inconsistency of having an informal policy that allows small-scale distribution but does not manage production and up-stream supply chain issues. There currently does not seem to be strong or significant support for a policy that would make all of it illegal. All I see is that attempts to make the upstream supply chain more manageable and transparent prove to be too challenging to work out, with municipalities being willing to go for an entirely legal production system while the national government attempts to put quite strict boundaries to such experiments. That's very much different than putting a stop to the 'gedoogbeleid'; it's in fact a movement (albeit a slow and painful one) in the opposite direction.

Quote:

We seek more and more the side of oppression, restriction.

Climate is becoming more hostile towards foreigners too.



Is that objectively true across the board? Discrimination in various forms didn't use to be a substantial subject of debate in our society, which should not be interpreted as that there was widescale acceptance. There wasn't. The acceptance for non-acceptance has become increasingly scrutinized, forcing both sides of the debate to voice their views. This also means that the more hostile right-wingers need to voice their views, which they previously did not speak of much publicly, but instead just acted on them (i.e. being as racist or discriminating as they pleased). Don't mistake an increasingly open debate for a decrease in acceptance. The fact that the debate is still necessary implies that the situation is by no means solved, but arguing that we're heading into the wrong direction would require some more solid argumentation than just a few subjective cries.


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382636 - 12/15/19 04:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You judge and draw conclusions very swiftly. Calling my parents and in some way my entire country racist is lazy respectless judgemental and incorrect.


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26382646 - 12/15/19 04:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
No, Pete was black because he was meant to be a Moor. That whole 'chimney-ash' workaround didn't come until far later, after people started saying 'this is definitely racist'




Why a Moor in particular tho?
Elves as little helpers of the gods kind of "makes sense" as helpers for a benevolent blessing bringer in more modern form
but what is the cultural significance of Moorish people in a Santa myth -- is it 'just' due to the efficacy of slaves?

it is especially confusing to me, as despite Asante's mention of the elves being an adaptation because black Pete was too racist
the stuff that did show up in my digging suggests elves showed up first with a mass of elvish helpers showing up around the same time

https://www.livescience.com/42051-history-of-elves.html

Quote:

Much as the modern Thanksgiving menu dates back to the 1800s, so too do modern U.S. Christmas traditions. Elves became linked with Santa Claus in the 1823 poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas," better known today as "The Night Before Christmas." That poem refers to Santa Claus as a "jolly old elf."

With the elf-Christmas link established, other writers began to get creative with the idea. In 1857, Harper's Weekly published a poem called "The Wonders of Santa Claus," which tells how Santa "keeps a great many elves at work/ All working with all their might/ To make a million of pretty things/ Cakes, sugar-plums, and toys/ To fill the stockings, hung up you know/ By the little girls and boys."




Quote:

In 1850, the Amsterdam-based primary school teacher Jan Schenkman published the book Sint Nikolaas en zijn Knecht ("Saint Nicholas and his Servant" in English). It's widely considered the first time a servant character was included in a printed version of the Saint Nicholas narrative. The servant is depicted as a page who appears as a dark-skinned person wearing clothes associated with Moors. The book also established another mythos that would become standard: the intocht or "entry" ceremony of Saint Nicholas and his servant (then still nameless) involving a steamboat. Schenkman has the two characters arrive from Spain with no reference made to Nicholas' historical homeland of Myra (Lycia, which was located in what is now modern-day Turkey). In the 1850 version of Schenkman's book, the servant is depicted in simple white clothing with red hems. Beginning with the second edition in 1858, the page is illustrated in a much more colorful page costume.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

paging through other countries lead me to finding things like hobgoblins, gnomes, or other regional elf-adjacent supernatural creatures
rather than foreign humans
https://www.whychristmas.com/cultures/norway.shtml


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26382661 - 12/15/19 05:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Why a Moor in particular tho?




'Moor' was the generic term applied to basically anyone non-white and not from Asian descent. Possibly it is rooted in the Moorish occupation of the Iberian peninsula, and hence, anyone of 'other color' being labeled a 'Moor'. You can still see depictions of 'Moors' (in fact sometimes more resembling people from mid-African descent) on some older buildings, particularly the 'yawners' on some old (17-18th century) pharmacies, whose depictions were likely based on North-African muslims, but in some cases were depicted with more distinctly mid-African traits. This Moor might have been an association between medicine and Eurasian or North-African wisdom - likely again referring back to the Moorish occupation of Iberia and the more advanced knowledge of the Moors compared to the Europeans they conquered. Why the 'Moor' ended up as a helper to Sinterklaas and if that was due to associations with the (at the emergence of the phenomenon still recent or even actual) practice of slavery can only be guessed at. It's a logical conclusion, but not one that can be proven. A more allegorical meaning might just as well have been the indirect source of this choice. It's pretty much impossible to determine how we got where we are today, but it's clearly a fact that at least some people take offense in this combination of roles and characters. In a way, it says more about our society today than it does about motivations of the past.


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: koraks]
    #26382665 - 12/15/19 05:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Why a Moor in particular tho?




'Moor' was the generic term applied to basically anyone non-white and not from Asian descent. Possibly it is rooted in the Moorish occupation of the Iberian peninsula, and hence, anyone of 'other color' being labeled a 'Moor'. You can still see depictions of 'Moors' (in fact sometimes more resembling people from mid-African descent) on some older buildings, particularly the 'yawners' on some old (17-18th century) pharmacies, whose depictions were likely based on North-African muslims, but in some cases were depicted with more distinctly mid-African traits. This Moor might have been an association between medicine and Eurasian or North-African wisdom - likely again referring back to the Moorish occupation of Iberia and the more advanced knowledge of the Moors compared to the Europeans they conquered. Why the 'Moor' ended up as a helper to Sinterklaas and if that was due to associations with the (at the emergence of the phenomenon still recent or even actual) practice of slavery can only be guessed at. It's a logical conclusion, but not one that can be proven. A more allegorical meaning might just as well have been the indirect source of this choice. It's pretty much impossible to determine how we got where we are today, but it's clearly a fact that at least some people take offense in this combination of roles and characters. In a way, it says more about our society today than it does about motivations of the past.




interesting, thanks for the insight
was poking the Black Pete wiki more, and its best 'guess' was that it was due to black skin being portrayed as similiar to demons
Quote:

In medieval iconography, Saint Nicholas is sometimes presented as taming a chained demon, who may or may not be black. However, no hint of a companion, demon, servant, or any other human or human-like fixed companion to the Saint is found in visual and textual sources from the Netherlands from the 16th until the 19th century.[10] According to a long-standing theory first proposed by Karl Meisen,[11] Zwarte Piet and his equivalents in Germanic Europe were originally presented as one or more enslaved demons forced to assist their captor. These chained and fire-scorched demons may have been redeveloped as black-skinned humans during the early 19th-century in the Netherlands in the likeness of Moors who work as servants for Saint Nicholas.




still makes the human approach intriguing and somewhat unique tho
as this would suggest the helper figure was chronologically a supernatural creature first and a human assistant later


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tantrika]
    #26382721 - 12/15/19 06:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

idk for a nation of slave traders it aint a good look :shrug:


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated]
    #26382723 - 12/15/19 06:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

no offense but a brief look into it says it originated during slave trade times, probably to normalize slave trading


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26382730 - 12/15/19 06:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: tomnl] * 1
    #26382737 - 12/15/19 06:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

totally

people are always so uptight about finding out they have institutionalized racism :rolleyes:


Edited by cannabinated (12/15/19 06:23 AM)


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated] * 2
    #26383194 - 12/15/19 11:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Nobody watches so I might just post this here.



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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated]
    #26383241 - 12/15/19 12:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
no offense but a brief look into it says it originated during slave trade times, probably to normalize slave trading



The emergence of black Pete around 1848 coincides with the period in which The Netherlands abolished slavery and slave trade, which occurred in phases. It was a period when there was the exact opposite of normalization of slave trade going on, with the practice becoming more and more subject of criticism and objection starting in the late 1700s.


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: koraks]
    #26383251 - 12/15/19 12:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

yeah why do you think lawn jockeys exist

to hide something ugly


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: cannabinated]
    #26383292 - 12/15/19 12:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Black Pete is a superhero who rewards good kids and punishes bad kids.

Greets Hank


--------------------
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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: tomnl]
    #26383303 - 12/15/19 12:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tomnl said:
Black Pete is a superhero who rewards good kids and punishes bad kids.

Greets Hank




The world has enough superheros
we need another good old fashioned villian





Quote:

A mangled, deranged face with bloodshot eyes tops a furry black body. Giant horns curl up from his head, displaying his half-goat, half-demon lineage. Behind this terror, a dozen more stomp through the snow of the streets of Lienz, Austria, among a din of cowbell jangles. The creatures dash through the streets, chasing giggling children and adults alike, poking them with sticks and scaring some with the realization that they were naughty this year.

Lienz' annual Krampus Parade, also known as Perchtenlauf or Klaubaufe, resurrects a centuries-old tradition: Young men in town dress up as the mythical creature and parade through the streets in an ancient pagan ritual meant to disperse winter's ghosts. They march dressed in fur suits and carved wooden masks and carrying cowbells. The tradition—also known as the Krampuslauf, or Krampus Run—is having a resurgence throughout Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Hungary and the Czech Republic, and has gained recognition in the United States.

The creature has become so popular in recent times that he has a comic book series, parties of his own and even a new movie. After all, says Jeremy Seghers, organizer of a Krampusnacht festival being held for the first time in Orlando, Florida, why watch out when Santa Claus comes to town? "Because Krampus is coming to get you."

Krampus himself historically comes around the night of December 5, tagging along with St. Nicholas. He visits houses all night with his saintly pal. While St. Nick is on hand to put candy in the shoes of good kids and birch twigs in the shoes of the bad, Krampus' particular specialty is punishing naughty children. Legend has it that throughout the Christmas season, misbehaved kids are beaten with birch branches or can disappear, stuffed into Krampus' sack and hauled off to his lair to be tortured or eaten.

"The Krampus is the yin to St. Nick's yang," Seghers tells Smithsonian.com. "You have the saint, you have the devil. It taps into a subconscious macabre desire that a lot of people have that is the opposite of the saccharine Christmas a lot of us grew up with."

In fact, Krampus' roots have nothing to do with Christmas. Instead, they date back to pre-Germanic paganism in the region. His name originates with the German krampen, which means "claw," and tradition has it that he is the son of the Norse god of the underworld, Hel. During the 12th century, the Catholic Church attempted to banish Krampus celebrations because of his resemblance to the devil. More eradication attempts followed in 1934 at the hands of Austria's conservative Christian Social Party. But none of it held, and Krampus emerged as a much-feared and beloved holiday force.

For some, the annual festival of child-hunting Krampus is fun—but concerns that refugees in the Alpine towns that celebrate Krampus could find the tradition frightful has prompted some towns to consider taming the horror. This year, Krampus' scheduled arrival in the Alpine towns that celebrate him coincides with an influx of refugees from Syria and Afghanistan. Though the festival is well-loved, it gave rise to concerns that the new neighbors might be scared of the tradition and its nightmare-fueling costumes. Rather than cancelling the parade, town officials decided to educate the newcomers. The Telegraph's Rozina Sabur writes that refugee children in Lienz were invited to a presentation where they learned about the props, costumes and customs of Krampus.

Seghers likes the idea of introducing Krampus to refugees in Austria. "I think it's wonderful that they want to get the refugees used to this sort of thing," he says. "You can’t force people to adopt cultural traditions of which they have no basis or point of reference."

Perhaps you'll be the next to catch the Krampus spirit this holiday. After all, the horrible haunt could very well be watching you.



https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/krampus-could-come-you-holiday-season-180957438/











:headbanger:


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tantrika]
    #26384098 - 12/15/19 08:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Christmas in Europe is so much more interesting than the heavily prepackaged version in North America



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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tantrika]
    #26384133 - 12/15/19 08:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Move..

To....

Fucking......

Germany........


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Patlal]
    #26384155 - 12/15/19 09:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Move..

To....

Fucking......

Germany........




Love Canada too much to leave over one holiday
especially since our other winter festivals are awesome













but the whole Santa+Jesus+put on a smile or you are Scrooge/Grinch(based on financial bracket)
sucks bruh


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26384375 - 12/16/19 01:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

>"Legend has it that throughout the Christmas season, misbehaved kids are beaten with birch branches or can disappear, stuffed into Krampus' sack and hauled off to his lair to be tortured or eaten".

I don't recall hearing of Krampus when I was a child, I grew up in S. London rather than Holland, but I do recall a recurring nightmare where Santa Claws, looking very much more like a Krampus, would sit on a compost heap - a heap that exited IRL in a dark corner formed by two walls where the groundsman gathered up fallen twig and branches from the trees in the very much larger garden behind our back wall - made up of childrens bones, with a large bulging sack beside him from which he would haul out a "bad child" (I guess) onto his lap and tear pieces from to gnaw upon.


>"Krampus' roots have nothing to do with Christmas"

Neither does Christmas. It should be a celebration of scientific methodology (how else did the ancients discover when the winter and summer soltices occurred, clue, it aint from no bible) over superstition, which the Christians usurped for their own ends, and now, ironically, they bleat on about how 'their tradition' has been taken over my the merchants.

Poor old Dickens must turn in his grave seeing how his character 'Scrooge' is now used to browbeat the working poor into handing over their hard won money to the very merchant class he was railing against.:nonono:


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Edited by deucedbi9 (12/16/19 01:39 AM)


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Asante]
    #26385069 - 12/16/19 12:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
We used to accept fireworks, we no longer tolerate it.

Gedoogbeleid is on its way out.

We seek more and more the side of oppression, restriction.

Climate is becoming more hostile towards foreigners too.





One of my old roommates was in Amsterdam last year and had this exact experience.  I guess he was at a bar and said they were being incredibly racist to him and aggressive after he opened his mouth and they heard his accent.  I was actually very surprised to hear this.  My family is Dutch, so I would like to visit one day from the US.


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: ilus]
    #26385109 - 12/16/19 01:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder why it seems that our “default” is to be the asshole.  I can see how through the years we would develop a sort of natural aggression but it seems like it’s more than that, almost like it’s natural to be evil and only through extensive self work some of us sort of rise above that.  It’s so easy to be mean whereas to “do the right thing” often times brings with it extra work and sometimes less ‘pay off’.  I can see how certain jobs may attract a certain type so the concentration will seem pretty heavy but, it’s almost like we’re all born assholes for some reason.


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26385351 - 12/16/19 03:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

perhaps ill go to canada when school is out :strokebeard:


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26387172 - 12/17/19 02:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

it’s almost like we’re all born assholes for some reason.




Evolution. As a top of the chain organism we only have ourselves to compete with. Organisms evolve through crisis and catastrophe


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Re: Holland is starting to become a Cuntry. [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26388082 - 12/18/19 04:14 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I can think of endless evolutionary traits in animals that developed for completely mundane and simple reasons, and can think of little that developed because of 'crisis' and 'catatrosphe'. What makes you say that evolution is so picky? Humans havent been here that long and we've had our fair share of rough experiences. Ice age and all that. I wouldnt say evolution skirted past us because we're pussies or something, it just hasnt caught up yet. Takes a while.


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