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Offlinedelcat
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Lions Mane & RH
    #26379179 - 12/13/19 12:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hi Guys,

I'm just doing my third Lions Mane grow.  My first two gave me probably 3 golf ball sized fruits per bag (or one large the size of a golf ball)

I'm using 1 quart spawn per bag and probably 2 litres or so of Roger Rabbits wood lovers substrate.  I think I should be aiming for better yields, right?

So far I've been just fruiting them on a shelf.  The fruits seem pretty dry as they are developing, I think I have low RH.

This time around I was thinking to fruit the bags inside an old 55L monotub box to keep RH high.

What do you guys think of this approach? Any tips?

Here's a pic of my last grow about where I harvested it...



Thanks!


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Offlinedelcat
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26379200 - 12/13/19 12:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

One other question... In Roger Rabbits videos, he mentions that the water put into the substrate is just enough for colonisation; then goes on to say that you'll take the sub out of the bag and dunk it in water before fruiting.

However, he doesn't mention anything further on this in the rest of the videos.  Does anyone have any info on this step? I haven't been doing it, perhaps thats why my fruits are small and dry?


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Offlinesonoramo
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26379225 - 12/13/19 01:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

delcat said:
One other question... In Roger Rabbits videos, he mentions that the water put into the substrate is just enough for colonisation; then goes on to say that you'll take the sub out of the bag and dunk it in water before fruiting.




I can't help you with experience. Last week I bought a sawdust "log" pre-inocculated with lion's mane. The log is very tightly compressed with alternating layers of spawn and sawdust. It looks like their assembly was to put a poly bag in a form, then dump in the alternating layers and compress somewhat before tying off the "open" end. It was not terribly moist when I received it.

Their directions were: Cut two X-slits on the long side of the log, and put it in the poly tent they supplied, with about 6 1/2-inch FAE holes (no filters on the holes). Then, mist it 2x/day and wait.

Dunking the log would put way more water in it than what is there. Also, it probably would not soak in terribly well because the log is so compressed. If you you have a big tub to use as a humidity chamber, that might be more convenient than the poly-bag "tent" I got with the kit. I'd use a tub myself, but all of mine are busy with other things.  :grin:

That's all I can tell you,... the log is not yet fully colonized so I haven't seen a single fruit.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: sonoramo]
    #26379280 - 12/13/19 01:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You don't measure your results by the size of the fruits. You measure your results by bio efficiency. So if you put 1 lb of dry sub in the bag and get 1 lb of mushrooms you have 100% bio efficiency. Notice it is measured by the dry materials you put in with no water added.


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Offlinedelcat
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26379319 - 12/13/19 01:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the comments guys.  Re: Bio Efficiency, I don't know exactly the dry weight of all the stuff I put in; But I'd expect more than I got from the bag I posted a pic of (note no second flush)

Am I expecting too much?

Hopefully putting them in a more humid environment will give me better results...


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26379473 - 12/13/19 03:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know what you should expect from Lion's mane as far as bio efficiency goes. But you need to do a little research and find out what bio efficiency you should be getting. Then keep track of the weight of the materials you are putting in the bags. That is the only way to find out if you are doing well or if something needs to be adjusted. Please post what you find because I will be starting LM soon.

Are you misting the fruits? Because you don't want the fruits to get wet or they will turn brown and stop growing. Your fruits look a little brown, but it may be from not having enough humidity.


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Offlinedelcat
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26379483 - 12/13/19 03:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't mist these at all as i heard they don't like it.

I just cut slots and left them to it.

I'll let you know if i notice a dramatic different from increasing the RH.  Too late for me to measure bio efficiency now I'm afraid!


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26379506 - 12/13/19 03:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Where did you get your spawn?

I have this culture...

https://www.mycelia.be/en/strain-list/m-9514-hericium-erinaceus

I have not done anything with the culture yet.

I found out a long time ago that you want to start off with good genetics to get good results.


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Offlinefilyep
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26379643 - 12/13/19 04:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't grown a tone of lions mane yet but recently I had my humidity drop to the 60's and a block of lions mane I had fruiting got some brown on the fruits. Not like yours though. Do you know what your humidity is?


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: filyep]
    #26382464 - 12/15/19 12:00 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

If you look at the link shroomsisay posted to the culture, you can see the parameters required to grow lions mane well. Pay attention to the humidity, co2 levels and the yield.
85% to 95% RH, 500ppm-1000ppm co2 (which is an average rooms co2. So alot of fresh air) and 150 grams of mature mushrooms for every 1 kilograms of substrate with that particular strain.
You need a lot more humidity as your mushroom is brown from being too dry.
Placing it in a monotub wont work well unless you can provide that same high humidity and maintain a high air exchange without really dropping the humidity for extended periods, or you'll run into the same problem filyep mentioned.
Pf tek is different from bulk substrates, you need to treat your substrate as a bulk substrates, as that's what it is. With pf tek you add the minimum amount of water possible for colonization and than dunk after to rehydrate the mycelium. With bulk substrates you add a certain amount of water (which is generally 60%-65% saturation of the substrate) that allows for full colonization and at least 1 to 2 flushes.
You can get an estimate of how much water would be used in 1 flush from a given substrate based on the mushrooms potential yield per wet substrate weight and the weight of your wet substrate. You can further estimate the amount of water used in the substrate to produce mushrooms based on the assumption that most mushrooms are 90% water.
Ex. Your substrate weighs 500 grams wet
You know that potential yield is 150 grams per kilogram of substrate
1kg is 1000 grams
Half of 1000 grams is 500 grams and half of 150 grams is 75 grams
So 75 grams per 500 grams of wet substrate
60% of 500 grams is 300 grams
90% of 300 grams is 270 grams
So left over water is 30 grams, pretty dry!
This is of course assuming ideal conditions, B.E. and accurate substrate saturation.
Once the water is used up you can dunk them again, weighed down under water so osmotic pressure hydrates the mycelium and reintroduce it to fruiting conditions. This of course comes with it's own particular complications.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26382670 - 12/15/19 05:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I love to read your comments DigitalRhizahe. That has substance.


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: mariapilz]
    #26383216 - 12/15/19 11:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you mariapilz, I appreciate the kind words.


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Offlinedelcat
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26404493 - 12/28/19 11:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the info Digitalrhizae.  I understand your comments on water.

The reason I asked about dunking is because in Roger Rabbits video about preparing wood lover substrate for use in bags, he mentions while he is doing it that the water in the initial mix is just for colonisation - and he will dunk them later.  I'm using his exact method (which is not BRF) so thats why I asked.

I however, have not dunked.  But the sub looks plenty wet to me!

I'm beginning to wonder if my hardwood "wood chips" are causing me issues.  We can't get hold of fuel pellets where I live, so I have been using these:

https://www.woodfuel.coop/product/ruf-aspen/

I'm not sure if mine are the aspen type or not, but they look exactly similar.  They certainly say hardwood on the label.  I prepare them by placing a block in a big pot, and boil them for about an hour in a lot of water.  After this, the block has turned completely to loose "shredded" wood (As opposed to singular chips)

I use this as the "Wood chip" and regular hardwood sawdust with wheat bran.

Looking at my bags now, I can clearly see they are desparate to fruit, but they are barely colonised.  I have placed them into an old monotub with most of the holes covered with micropore tape except for about 25% of the upper ones.  I have made some slits in areas where I can see fruits already, or particularly white areas that look like something is forming.

What do you guys think?  My instincts are telling me there is a bit too much water in the sub, and maybe they don't like the hardwood chips.  Pictures below...











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Offlinedelcat
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26404498 - 12/28/19 11:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Also, as you can probably see, both bags have quite a lot of fruits on the top - which isnt Ideal, I guess I want them to fruit out the sides, but because the air is at the top, thats what they are trying to do.

One thing I just thought is, should I be massaging these during colonisation to distribute and assist full colonisation?

These were spawned from fully colonised rye grain to the sterilised bags on the 15th December. Pics taken on the 28th.

Recipe / Method for sub:

4 litres sawdust
2 litres chips (made from the block of hardwood mentioned below)
half litre wheat bran
1 cup gypsum
1.5 litres water

Boil 1 block of hardwood 1 hour.
Mix sawdust and wheat bran and gypsum well together dry
add water
mix together well.

Place into bags - 1 part chips to 2 parts sawdust mix

massage and mix well in the bag.
Sterilise
Add approx 1 qt rye grain spawn.
Seal the top, massage and mix well.
Leave to colonise - and we get to the above pictures.


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26406370 - 12/29/19 01:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I must have forgot or overlooked that in RR’s videos, but you’re right he does mention dunking in the sawdust block preparation, I thought this was only for PF Tek. My information of substrate moisture is based mainly on Paul Stamets supplemented sawdust blocks recipe. And I’ve always just had a general ball park for the amount of water to add (which would be 60%-65% water to dry weight of substrate, as mentioned in GGMM) and then brought it up to field capacity with the hand squeezing method. With water it is more important to actually have less then more, because when you have more or too much it slows down colonization and encourages bacteria and mold growth.

Your wood source likely isn't a problem as along as you get the water content right. Your blocks look fine, and actually are more likely to be over colonized then under colonized. Lions mane can be deceptive because full colonization doesn’t necessarily mean an entirely white surface like with oysters for example. More experienced growers will actually fruit based more on time (generally +-30 days) than visual appearance. They are also difficult because they will tend to fruit if allowed to before full colonization.

Yep they are fruiting on the top because that is where the most fresh air is going to be. If you want side fruiting it’s recommended at the time of fruit initiation to fold the bags down as tightly as possible, removing as much air as possible and then cut the slits in the side of the bags for fruiting sites.

You don't need to be massaging them at all really, except for the general recommendation for mixing of the substrate at 20% colonization to speed up the rest of the colonization. But this isn’t even necessary, it’ll just take more time to colonize fully. I’ve done 1 liter sawdust jars filled right to the top, so shaking wasn’t an option and it just took a bit longer to colonize.

Honesty, in my opinion, the only thing you need to correct is the RH and FAE of your fruiting chamber. I can’t see anything else that you may have done wrong. Even your first picture of the brown fruit you posted looks good, the formation is nice, it just needs more humidity.


Edited by DigitalRhizae (12/29/19 01:40 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26419009 - 01/06/20 09:43 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

delcat said:
Looking at my bags now, I can clearly see they are desparate to fruit, but they are barely colonised.




I think this is your problem - to me it looks like your bags ARE fruiting, just inside the bag.  See the last pic you put there - the air space in the bag that's filling with lion's mane fruit? 

LM mycelium is very thin and whispy, and rarely looks like it is fully colonized.  It will start fruiting, invitro if it has to, almost immediately after full colonization, which is exactly what it appears to have done in your pics.

With lions mane you want to make sure there is no air space inside the bag there, otherwise it will do like it did and fruit inside the bag.  Next time leave no air space, and it will fruit beautifully out of the filter patch.  Then you can just rip the fruits off there. :thumbup:


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26419035 - 01/06/20 10:04 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:


With lions mane you want to make sure there is no air space inside the bag there, otherwise it will do like it did and fruit inside the bag.  Next time leave no air space, and it will fruit beautifully out of the filter patch.  Then you can just rip the fruits off there. :thumbup:




Say what? Fill the substrate bags maxed? Wouldn't that encourage contams to pass through the filter patch being right on the substrate? I would assume then if I am reading you correct then just do a small x on the opposite end of the bag when its time to fruit as it would start fruiting out the filter patch as you said? Even for the other filter patches the unicorn square ones? But how would that work for being able to PC the bags without problems? And that would turn a 5-6 lb bag into a 10 lb bag? How would this all look that you are describing? Thanks


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26419095 - 01/06/20 10:58 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
Say what? Fill the substrate bags maxed? Wouldn't that encourage contams to pass through the filter patch being right on the substrate? I would assume then if I am reading you correct then just do a small x on the opposite end of the bag when its time to fruit as it would start fruiting out the filter patch as you said? Even for the other filter patches the unicorn square ones? But how would that work for being able to PC the bags without problems? And that would turn a 5-6 lb bag into a 10 lb bag? How would this all look that you are describing? Thanks





Sorry I wasn't that clear :smile:

Actually I've never used those particular bags, fruiting thru the filter on them may not be ideal, I just have a feeling that's what they'll do if you fill them full. 

All I can do is better explain how I used to do it with the regular filter patch bags, and maybe you can adapt a way to try something similar with your bags.  Anyway, here's basically what I used to do:

Basic Lipa tek, HWFP into filter patch bags.  inoculate with grain spawn and re-close bags with no air space inside.  At this point you can either cut your x's now (before colonization) if it's fuel pellets without supplementation, as I did, or if you're using supplementation or a substrate other than fuel pellets, you can wait to cut your x's until it's colonized, which shouldn't take more than a week.  You just want to make sure you have x's or somewhere for it to fruit through, and no airspace inside.

Lion's mane likes to start fruiting as soon as (or almost before, really) it's fully colonized.  So if you've got a nice humid climate INSIDE the bag for it to fruit, it's going to prefer that over your probably less humid environment outside the bag.  You have to force it.  If it's got nowhere INSIDE the bag to fruit, the fruit will come out and happily grow outside the bag, through the x's you've cut, or the filter patch if you've forgotten to give it another way out.

Hope that helps, and good luck! :thumbup:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26419105 - 01/06/20 11:03 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Here's a couple pics of mine done that way, they don't help show much better how it's done but nonetheless:





(and yes, they are overdue for harvest, you wanna get em earlier if you're eating them - I was growing for medicine)


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26419149 - 01/06/20 11:28 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

OK. Hrmm. So Lion's Mane doesn't need a lot of FAE for colonization, just fruiting? as provided by the X's and even limiting the air exchange by folding the bags over the filter patch provides enough gas exchange for LM? May I assume this works well for Spawn as well to prevent invitro fruiting of the spawn?


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26420134 - 01/06/20 10:07 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
OK. Hrmm. So Lion's Mane doesn't need a lot of FAE for colonization, just fruiting? as provided by the X's and even limiting the air exchange by folding the bags over the filter patch provides enough gas exchange for LM? May I assume this works well for Spawn as well to prevent invitro fruiting of the spawn?




That's correct, lion's mane only needs a slight amount of gas exchange for colonization, with the bags you're using there will be plenty.

I would have to say no, this wouldn't really prevent spawn from starting to form primordia and fruit (only because nothing really prevents it from doing that whether it's spawn or substrate).  It doesn't STOP your substrate from fruiting, per se, it just gives it no place for the fruit to go so it has to go outside.

With lion's mane spawn, you really wanna spawn it like THE DAY it reaches full colonization, which can be difficult to tell since its so thin/wispy and usually looks like cobweb mold :lol:  A friend of mine used to have his colonization time down to a science, making sure he incubated at the same temp every time he would just go 7 days and spawn it, whether it looked ready or not.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26420438 - 01/07/20 06:16 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

OK. I was just surprised at the seeming limiting the gas exchange even further by providing no air pocket and by folding over the bags over the filter patch.

And Yea I have 3 bags of spawn that have fruited invitro because I just didn't do any substrate bags yet. About to. My last bag that did that I just crumbled it anyways, fruit and all, and spawned it all to substrate bags, which then colonized just fine and fruited just fine. :shrug: What can you say about this? Obviously it worked for me the last time quite well. Are there limits on this working well?


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26420503 - 01/07/20 07:32 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
What can you say about this? Obviously it worked for me the last time quite well. Are there limits on this working well?




It usually works just fine, but I don't believe it's ideal.  Something about taking it right when it's trying to fruit and forcing it back to colonizing mode, I don't think makes it happy.  But I've never run experiments to test :shrug:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26424080 - 01/09/20 07:43 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Thanks guys, all really good advice, a lot of things I didn't realise.

I thought I was supposed to be spawning colonised rye to sterilised bags, then leaving an air pocket at the top with the bag sealed to allow the supplemented sub to colonise.  RR videos actually instruct you to do this, but I can totally see how this causes fruiting inside the bag.

These LM inside an old monotub with most of the holes taped up (2 of them 1/2 covered, the rest taped) are doing much better.  I don't know what the RH is but Ive misted the walls of the tub maybe four or five times in two weeks.  The walls do not typically have any moisture on them unless i spray them.

Next time I think I'll try and spawn to bags, mix, then seal with no air pocket like you say. Then just cut X's at the right spots when I see them developing, rather than waiting for some visible indication of colonisation as i have been doing up till now.





EDIT: Added a pic of LM grown simply on a shelf in my bedroom for comparison purposes.  Note the genetics are not the same, but even still, the fruit looks dense, squat, and underdeveloped to me.



Edited by delcat (01/09/20 07:55 AM)


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Offlinedelcat
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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26424092 - 01/09/20 07:51 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Just to add, I never got the wispy, spongey characteristics of the fruits before.  They would develop, but were quite dense and hard.

Putting the whole thing inside a box in an effort to try and get it a bit more RH has led to the fruits being a much lighter texture.  They seem to go through a development stage where they are short, squat, and look like cauliflower. After this, they develop long wispy parts that give a softer more spongy texture.  The softer parts never came when I was fruiting outside of a box, so the fruits were small and dense.  Now I have the dense parts in the centre, but with a lighter, spongier layer of fungi growing on top - which I like!


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #26424730 - 01/09/20 01:48 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

It's suggested to leave clean air in the bag to allow for colonization so the mycelium has enough fresh air and doesn't stall due to lack of gas exchange. I believe RR suggests this because he is not using filter patch bags in those videos and once it's heat sealed or tied off, no gas exchange can occur. Filter patch bags allow for that gas exchange. But I am not 100% on this and maybe Forrester can clarify this.

Your fruits will get much denser if you can maintain the same humidity but also provide a lot of fresh air exchange. A sign of poor fresh air exchange in lions mane is the non-dense, holey mushrooms. Much like how the indication of poor air exchange in oyster is small caps and large stems.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26425546 - 01/09/20 10:17 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

DigitalRhizae said:
It's suggested to leave clean air in the bag to allow for colonization so the mycelium has enough fresh air and doesn't stall due to lack of gas exchange. I believe RR suggests this because he is not using filter patch bags in those videos and once it's heat sealed or tied off, no gas exchange can occur. Filter patch bags allow for that gas exchange. But I am not 100% on this and maybe Forrester can clarify this.

Your fruits will get much denser if you can maintain the same humidity but also provide a lot of fresh air exchange. A sign of poor fresh air exchange in lions mane is the non-dense, holey mushrooms. Much like how the indication of poor air exchange in oyster is small caps and large stems.




I've never watched RR's videos, but what you said makes sense.  I've never had any problems with colonization when the only gas exchange was the filter patch, even if it was loosely rolled in or something.  Long as you got SOME gas exchange. 

As far as the density, I think the tighter look in the bottom pic is what folks usually go for (the color difference is because it was drier).  The toothy look in the pics above is probably just because it had less air, although any of the fruits will start to get toothy if you let them grow long enough.  But hey, I'd say grow 'em to whatever texture YOU like!


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26426136 - 01/10/20 08:05 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Do you guys find that LM likes/needs even more FAE than Oysters? I'm still trying to dial my fruiting chamber in. And even had to move my LM around to make sure it had enough humidity so it would get more "soaked" to get rid of the tan coloring. As well as up the humidity level. Which had led to more of a puddle problem. Although, when I cleaned my humidifier discs it started pumping out A LOT of water all of a sudden... oops... so now I am having to readjust my adjustments again because of that.. heh. I think I might start cleaning the discs every other week to keep them running top notch. They do get scale buildup over time and slow down the output. Which the noticeable slowdown is what got me to clean the actual discs of the water scale. But I was seeing fruits that looked like all 3 pictures although not really as bad as the top 2 pics but the general shapes. But I wouldn't all get the pretty tooth look. That usually people like to see of those long hanging dreads. But my oysters LOVE the FAE, so maybe its just the strain I am using?


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26426181 - 01/10/20 08:45 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

No I wouldn't say they need near as much FAE as oysters.  You could be right maybe the strain you're using needs air a bit more air.  It is H. erinaceous right?


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26426199 - 01/10/20 09:04 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Yes it is H. erinaceous. I am not sure how much was caused by them being tan for so long as I moved things around in my fruiting chamber and adjusted things. Someone had originally told me to make sure they didn't  get direct fog that it would kill it off. He had no clue. Once I put them directly in the most fog they spruced up quite nice. Maybe I am having internal fruiting chamber fan issues? Been adjusting that here and there, but as they say don't let the fan blow directly on the fruits it is a real pain.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26426235 - 01/10/20 09:33 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

it does take a little tinkering to figure out what they like, I too remember something about not getting the humidity on the fruits directly, from pretty reliable sources.  But then I find them in the forest drenched in rain, so :shrug:


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: Forrester]
    #26426570 - 01/10/20 01:29 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

I had problems with my humidity setup too and I could never get it under control. So I did have issue with them getting too wet or too dry and browning or growing odd. I've designed/built a new humidifier that seems to work way better but haven't tested it in an actual grow yet. I've only grown oysters outdoors so I don't know how they would perform in the setup I had. But I can tell you that if my air exchange in a 4 tier greenhouse wasn't at least 1 full exchange of the volume of the chamber every 10 minutes, the lions mane definitely suffered. They do well with 500-1000ppm of co2 in the air, which is pretty close to the average ppm of co2 in a typical occupied room. Maybe it's a strain thing as Forrester mentioned or you might have co2 hot spots, just a guess.

Apparently standing water on pins is what causes aborts, but once they've matured enough they can take water directly. But it's recommended to not have water standing on them for too long also, as that can cause bacterial blotch on the mushrooms.

If the mushrooms turn brown they have likely died. They will grow new mushrooms off of fresh mycelium that wasn't damaged, but it's unlikely for the mushroom that developed to recover if they've got too dry.

You really should be using distilled, de-mineralized or Reverse osmosis water if you are using an ultrasonic type of humidifier. This isn't only to keep the disc clean and prolong their life, it's also because it's a health hazard as the calcium in the water also makes it into the mist and when it dries it creates nanoparticle calcium dust that you can breath in and could potentially cause respiratory damage. I just recently found this out because my sister would run these home units a lot and her entire living space was covered with white dust. She later figured out it was calcium dust from using tap water in the humidifier. There's a bunch of studies online that show this occurs.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26426842 - 01/10/20 04:16 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Distilled, etc. water isn't really an option that would sky rocket the cost of running the fogger. And even using a mister, which I want to go to next won't  really get rid of the calcium either. I just have to clean everything often because of hard water. No matter which way I go.

Ahh that makes sense on why I thought the guy was off as the LM had already formed before I moved it closer to the fogger input. But generally my shelves are dry. Although, I shall be finding out more as I have 3 new batches of LM with different sub mixes going. So I can find the answers to the questions I had in the other thread about substrate.

And what maybe the issue is, is I am running a 4 tier shelf indoors instead of outside, just yet. So its pulling air from the house and not outside. My out of the house grow tent wouldn't have that problem at all. But I am not running them in there. Yet.

And I know at least one of my shelves does have a CO2 hot spot because my oysters complained a little on that shelf. Which was the shelf I started my LM on originally. I haven't tried my last shelf yet. But that is going to change very shortly as I am going to be filling the whole thing up in short order. So now that I am explaining it.. that maybe the issue.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26426965 - 01/10/20 05:35 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Are you venting the exhaust outdoors? If not it would contribute to the overall co2 in the room and could cause problems. But if its venting outside the room than it shouldn't be much of a problem. I wouldn't think a small area like a 4 tier greenhouse would need a circulation fan, I would think the exhaust cycles and natural convection would be enough, but I'm not sure.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26427138 - 01/10/20 07:13 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

It is venting outside. Yea I saw gr0wer didn't use a circulation fan in his. And so was wondering about that. But also wondering if he was just experiencing slightly longer stipes and just dealt with it and considered it within an acceptable length or what. And honestly I didn't let them sit on the one shelf too long and it wasn't the first flush. I didn't have enough to run a full house until now, as I was still getting all the materials. Didn't want to make it full until I did some smaller runs anyways. And now, for a bit, its going to have all this Lion's Mane. Yum. So I won't know until I fill it up and grow it out. And that reminds me about my idea to basically convert each shelf into two shelves on top of each other so the mushrooms are growing directly over the holes in the shelves so they get better circulation through the whole thing. Still holding the same amount of bags but allowing for easy side fruiting and better circulation and FAE. Dunno yet. Got busy and distracted.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26427261 - 01/10/20 08:43 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

DigitalRhizae said:

If the mushrooms turn brown they have likely died. They will grow new mushrooms off of fresh mycelium that wasn't damaged, but it's unlikely for the mushroom that developed to recover if they've got too dry.






So, does this means if where someone slits the bag, it browns a little it is considered damaged and nothing will grow from there? Should a new hole be made near there? Fully cut away all the tan and it will grow from there as there would be fresh mycelium left? Maybe cut a diagonal slit across it opening up fresh mycellium near there?


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Edited by seagu (01/11/20 07:11 AM)


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26435579 - 01/15/20 07:58 PM (4 years, 14 days ago)

I might be better able to explain this with a picture. This picture shows some developed mushrooms but you can see brown spots on them where they initially dried out in their early life. The mushroom grew from portions that weren't completely dried, or weren't so far gone that the fruiting body completely died and once humidity was reestablished they were reinvigorated.

Top right shows a jar with two mushrooms and dried dead pin. Parts of those two show sings of drying, but grew fine once the humidity was somewhat stable. Top left shows a similar situation and so does the bottom most right one.

If it's just surface damage and the mycelium underneath is not completely dead, then I would think it should have the ability to push through the brown dead surface and form new pins, but I can't say this with complete certainty.



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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26435621 - 01/15/20 08:23 PM (4 years, 14 days ago)

So sounds like you think the browning on the sub is akin to aborts on other shrooms. Well, I can say that I pulled the brown off of the two slits that didn't grow before and 1 of them so far has new growth. But I had also slit side ways across the original slit that browned too before doing that. So that it made an X as before it was an |. So at the very least the browned area can be pulled off and cleaned and it will/can fruit.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26439600 - 01/18/20 03:58 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

my understanding... an abort is not the result of insufficient humidity. Aborts happens when too many primordia grow and the block no longer makes it ... of course no new mushroom grows from it.... maybe later ON it a new mushroom.


Quote:

DigitalRhizae said:
I might be better able to explain this with a picture. This picture shows some developed mushrooms but you can see brown spots on them where they initially dried out in their early life. The mushroom grew from portions that weren't completely dried, or weren't so far gone that the fruiting body completely died and once humidity was reestablished they were reinvigorated.

Top right shows a jar with two mushrooms and dried dead pin. Parts of those two show sings of drying, but grew fine once the humidity was somewhat stable. Top left shows a similar situation and so does the bottom most right one.

If it's just surface damage and the mycelium underneath is not completely dead, then I would think it should have the ability to push through the brown dead surface and form new pins, but I can't say this with complete certainty.





well explained


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: mariapilz]
    #26439733 - 01/18/20 06:56 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

mariapilz said:
my understanding... an abort is not the result of insufficient humidity. Aborts happens when too many primordia grow and the block no longer makes it ... of course no new mushroom grows from it.... maybe later ON it a new mushroom.

Quote:

DigitalRhizae said:
I might be better able to explain this with a picture. This picture shows some developed mushrooms but you can see brown spots on them where they initially dried out in their early life. The mushroom grew from portions that weren't completely dried, or weren't so far gone that the fruiting body completely died and once humidity was reestablished they were reinvigorated.

Top right shows a jar with two mushrooms and dried dead pin. Parts of those two show sings of drying, but grew fine once the humidity was somewhat stable. Top left shows a similar situation and so does the bottom most right one.

If it's just surface damage and the mycelium underneath is not completely dead, then I would think it should have the ability to push through the brown dead surface and form new pins, but I can't say this with complete certainty.





well explained




I said "akin", which mean similar but not necessarily the same, and he says :
Quote:

DigitalRhizae said:Top right shows a jar with two mushrooms and dried dead pin. Parts of those two show sings of drying, but grew fine once the humidity was somewhat stable. Top left shows a similar situation and so does the bottom most right one.



And how he is describing it as a whole from his entire text it sounds like he possibly thinks, similar(akin) to as aborts start and dry out/damage often times, that with LM mushroom specifically, they could recover instead of truly aborting. So, I used "akin" so I would have some leeway in the discussion if the words used were not perfect in all ways and if I was misunderstanding what he was trying to say. :grin:

Also, This thread here discusses aborts and several TC's have weighed in and for the most part it just depends, no diaper needed. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23840394


Edited by seagu (01/18/20 07:19 AM)


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26439827 - 01/18/20 08:20 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Ah ok. ... I think I should mostly devote myself to reading. Otherwise I only confuse others.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: mariapilz]
    #26439854 - 01/18/20 08:45 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

bah.. not at all.. a person only fails - if they fail to get back up.

We all make mistakes. We all have lapses in memory. And writing is so often easy to misread and misunderstand. Nobody knows it all. I certainly don't.

And you have and are a great contribution to this site. You have experience others don't. I think you also pointed out English is not your first language. So why wouldn't there sometimes be misunderstandings. Plus, there are how many different English speaking localities with how many different terms that maybe are not as widespread as others...


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26439893 - 01/18/20 09:17 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

:heart:Thank you.
shroomery is simply the best place for growers who want to get commercially. Hobby breeders are many in German forums, but none of them sell. If there are commercial growers, they don't share.:rolleyes:


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: mariapilz]
    #26439920 - 01/18/20 09:30 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Speaking of commercial growers, here's a pic I stole from Aleon's gallery.  Dude really knew what he was doing.



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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: mariapilz]
    #26439956 - 01/18/20 10:01 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

You are welcome. Shroomery is the best. I have looked at other sites that have popped up over the years. Often the same knowledgeable people from here posting there type of thing. But the depth of knowledge contained here already and more people here already posting and sharing and answering questions more often. Just hands down Shroomery is the best for mushrooms. I guess I am not surprised it holds true to Germany as well.

And if a person properly uses the search function on here and reads all the threads they can find out exactly how to run a successful Mushroom Company. Whether they will see the right path or not through all of the info and execute it is another story. But it's all spelled out by a lot of experienced people, who have run successful Mushroom Companies through the years. I suppose all this should have been said on the other thread were have been talking on about two different subjects but... That just goes to show that to get the full understanding and knowledge from this site a person really needs to read a lot of many threads. So often as people are discussing one subject of mushroom growing it will lead to side comments and important information, as conversations are apt to do. And Shroomery is no different in that regard I have noticed.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: seagu]
    #26440141 - 01/18/20 12:15 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Speaking of LM and RH. Here are some LM I have growing right now. And the biggest one.


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Re: Lions Mane & RH [Re: delcat]
    #27613246 - 01/09/22 05:26 PM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

delcat said:
One other question... In Roger Rabbits videos, he mentions that the water put into the substrate is just enough for colonisation; then goes on to say that you'll take the sub out of the bag and dunk it in water before fruiting.

However, he doesn't mention anything further on this in the rest of the videos.  Does anyone have any info on this step? I haven't been doing it, perhaps thats why my fruits are small and dry?




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