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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. * 15
    #26378389 - 12/13/19 01:29 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Breaking news: Yesterday I got DNA sequence data from the sclerotia forming strain ATL7. It is Psilocybe tampanensis.

Recently Psilocybe tampanensis was collected in Florida for the first time since the late 70's. I sequenced several genes from this collection and now know with high confidence what Psilocybe tampanensis really is. I also received specimens of Psilocybe atlantis from the Atlanta area, and it is also Psilocybe tampanensis. Another sclerotia forming species which is commonly cultivated is Psilocybe mexicana. It differs from Psilocybe tampanensis by five nucleotides in the ITS gene.

Psilocybe galindoi is really Psilocybe mexicana, however what is going around as Psilocybe galindoi is Psilocybe tampanensis.

Here is a phylogenetic tree I just made showing how the various species in Psilocybe section Mexicanae are related, using Psilocybe zapotecorum as an outgroup.



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Offlinemitchell_danger
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26378440 - 12/13/19 03:17 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Great work! Good to see some solid taxonomical work here and it is very interesting to see how closely related these sclerotia-forming species actually are!


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26378508 - 12/13/19 05:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Tampanesis is not a variation of P. Mexicana, it is its own separate species. The ATL7 is a variation of Tampanesis, so it should be called P. Tampanesis var atlantis. Way to tamp down that mystery! You rock!


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Offlinebloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26378579 - 12/13/19 06:57 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So the Atlantis I found, are actually a varition of tampanesis?


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Offlinezerokool
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass] * 1
    #26378585 - 12/13/19 07:02 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
So the Atlantis I found, are actually a varition of tampanesis?



you have pics or wheres the original thread please? I'm curious as to where these were these were found, in dung?


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Offlinezerokool
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: zerokool] * 1
    #26378589 - 12/13/19 07:05 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26378633 - 12/13/19 07:46 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The us the story, bloodycarcass, from the beginning to the end and what made you think it was a sclerotia producing fungus, please. I'm sure many of us would love to hear the tale


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Offlinebloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: zerokool] * 1
    #26378689 - 12/13/19 08:22 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zerokool said:
Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?





They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga.
And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens

This is the thread
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1

And more pics here


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Edited by bloodycarcass (12/13/19 08:42 AM)


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InvisibleSirtalis
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26378723 - 12/13/19 08:45 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Hey Alan, this is really cool!  I study snake phylogenetics and was wondering why mycologists look at the ITS gene?  Are you using PAUP for your tree?  Is you analysis Bayesian or maximum likelihood?  Would love to chat about your methods sometime.

Aside from the cost barrier, do mycologists ever use next gen sequencing to resolve relationships?

Cheers


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Sirtalis] * 2
    #26380478 - 12/14/19 01:48 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
The ATL7 is a variation of Tampanesis, so it should be called P. Tampanesis var atlantis. Way to tamp down that mystery! You rock!




Variety is a formal taxonomic rank, so it shouldn't be called that unless P. tampanesis var Atlantis is formally published.  There should be a specific thing that makes it different to make it worth publishing it at the variety level.

Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
So the Atlantis I found, are actually a varition of tampanesis?




It is P. tampanensis.  Here is the Genbank record for your find:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MH349757


Quote:

Sirtalis said:
Hey Alan, this is really cool!  I study snake phylogenetics and was wondering why mycologists look at the ITS gene?  Are you using PAUP for your tree?  Is you analysis Bayesian or maximum likelihood?  Would love to chat about your methods sometime.

Aside from the cost barrier, do mycologists ever use next gen sequencing to resolve relationships?

Cheers




ITS is a good gene to look at because it is very variable, giving better resolution at the species level than the other genes that are commonly sequenced.  It also has about 20 copies in the genome, making it much easier to amplify than a single copy gene.

The tree I made with http://www.phylogeny.fr/simple_phylogeny.cgi, which calculates trees using PhyML, a maximum likelihood algorithm.  I sometimes use RaxML or MrBayes, which usually generate trees that turn out about the same.

Next Gen sequencing is mostly used for mixed samples like soil cores or tree roots.  It is expensive for a run, can only do short reads and it doesn't provide a consensus of all the copies of a multiple copy gene, causing problems comparing results to traditional Sanger reads.


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Offlinebloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26380656 - 12/14/19 05:28 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Awesome work Alan. And kinda sucks there isnt a Ps. atlantis. But was still cool finding these guys. Hopefully i can find more next year. Only seen a small patch this year which I left those to drop spores


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InvisibleBlue_Falcon
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26380760 - 12/14/19 07:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So does this mean when I look at the list of which psilocybin mushrooms grow in Georgia I should omit Atlantis and substitute for tampanesis?


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Offlinebloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Blue_Falcon]
    #26380889 - 12/14/19 08:40 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue_Falcon said:
So does this mean when I look at the list of which psilocybin mushrooms grow in Georgia I should omit Atlantis and substitute for tampanesis?




Thats my interpretation.


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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26380974 - 12/14/19 09:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So cool to see the true identity of atlantis.


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OfflineGreenween
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26381066 - 12/14/19 10:23 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
Quote:

zerokool said:
Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?





They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga.
And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens

This is the thread
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1

And more pics here




Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
Quote:

zerokool said:
Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?





They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga.
And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens

This is the thread
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1

And more pics here






In the second picture, you can clearly see spent substrate(Whole oats?). Did u pretend to find these in the wild?


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26381122 - 12/14/19 11:03 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe a wild man put that there :P


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Offlinebloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Hartford] * 2
    #26381139 - 12/14/19 11:17 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Not spent oats. Thats grass seed pods. These were found in the wild, whether you believe it or not.


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Edited by bloodycarcass (12/14/19 11:43 AM)


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
    #26381226 - 12/14/19 12:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Greenween said:
Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
Quote:

zerokool said:
Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?





They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga.
And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens

This is the thread
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1

And more pics here




Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
Quote:

zerokool said:
Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?





They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga.
And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens

This is the thread
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1

And more pics here






In the second picture, you can clearly see spent substrate(Whole oats?). Did u pretend to find these in the wild?




Those are clearly seeds

Also, awesome job Alan! This is so cool to find out


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OfflineStosch
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: mind.at.large]
    #26381283 - 12/14/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Alan very interesting. What's your opinion on how these species caerulescens, mexicana and tampanesis started in ATL area?

I read something about a hurricane but would like to hear your opinion or findings.

Thanks for sharing your findings that cleared up the ATL7 atlantis galandoi enigma.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Stosch]
    #26382109 - 12/14/19 08:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue_Falcon said:
So does this mean when I look at the list of which psilocybin mushrooms grow in Georgia I should omit Atlantis and substitute for tampanesis?





I updated the list.


Quote:

Stosch said:
What's your opinion on how these species caerulescens, mexicana and tampanesis started in ATL area?




I have no idea.


Quote:

I read something about a hurricane but would like to hear your opinion or findings.





I think they've been there for millions of years.


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