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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. 15
#26378389 - 12/13/19 01:29 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Breaking news: Yesterday I got DNA sequence data from the sclerotia forming strain ATL7. It is Psilocybe tampanensis.
Recently Psilocybe tampanensis was collected in Florida for the first time since the late 70's. I sequenced several genes from this collection and now know with high confidence what Psilocybe tampanensis really is. I also received specimens of Psilocybe atlantis from the Atlanta area, and it is also Psilocybe tampanensis. Another sclerotia forming species which is commonly cultivated is Psilocybe mexicana. It differs from Psilocybe tampanensis by five nucleotides in the ITS gene.
Psilocybe galindoi is really Psilocybe mexicana, however what is going around as Psilocybe galindoi is Psilocybe tampanensis.
Here is a phylogenetic tree I just made showing how the various species in Psilocybe section Mexicanae are related, using Psilocybe zapotecorum as an outgroup.
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mitchell_danger
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26378440 - 12/13/19 03:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great work! Good to see some solid taxonomical work here and it is very interesting to see how closely related these sclerotia-forming species actually are!
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Hartford
Lawful Good



Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 1,106
Loc: Tennessee
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26378508 - 12/13/19 05:14 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tampanesis is not a variation of P. Mexicana, it is its own separate species. The ATL7 is a variation of Tampanesis, so it should be called P. Tampanesis var atlantis. Way to tamp down that mystery! You rock!
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Hartford] 1
#26378579 - 12/13/19 06:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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So the Atlantis I found, are actually a varition of tampanesis?
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zerokool
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass] 1
#26378585 - 12/13/19 07:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bloodycarcass said: So the Atlantis I found, are actually a varition of tampanesis?
you have pics or wheres the original thread please? I'm curious as to where these were these were found, in dung?
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zerokool
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: zerokool] 1
#26378589 - 12/13/19 07:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?
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Hartford
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26378633 - 12/13/19 07:46 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The us the story, bloodycarcass, from the beginning to the end and what made you think it was a sclerotia producing fungus, please. I'm sure many of us would love to hear the tale
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: zerokool] 1
#26378689 - 12/13/19 08:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zerokool said: Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?
They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga. And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens
This is the thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1
And more pics here
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Edited by bloodycarcass (12/13/19 08:42 AM)
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Sirtalis


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 409
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26378723 - 12/13/19 08:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey Alan, this is really cool! I study snake phylogenetics and was wondering why mycologists look at the ITS gene? Are you using PAUP for your tree? Is you analysis Bayesian or maximum likelihood? Would love to chat about your methods sometime.
Aside from the cost barrier, do mycologists ever use next gen sequencing to resolve relationships?
Cheers
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Sirtalis] 2
#26380478 - 12/14/19 01:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hartford said: The ATL7 is a variation of Tampanesis, so it should be called P. Tampanesis var atlantis. Way to tamp down that mystery! You rock!
Variety is a formal taxonomic rank, so it shouldn't be called that unless P. tampanesis var Atlantis is formally published. There should be a specific thing that makes it different to make it worth publishing it at the variety level.
Quote:
bloodycarcass said: So the Atlantis I found, are actually a varition of tampanesis?
It is P. tampanensis. Here is the Genbank record for your find: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MH349757
Quote:
Sirtalis said: Hey Alan, this is really cool! I study snake phylogenetics and was wondering why mycologists look at the ITS gene? Are you using PAUP for your tree? Is you analysis Bayesian or maximum likelihood? Would love to chat about your methods sometime.
Aside from the cost barrier, do mycologists ever use next gen sequencing to resolve relationships?
Cheers
ITS is a good gene to look at because it is very variable, giving better resolution at the species level than the other genes that are commonly sequenced. It also has about 20 copies in the genome, making it much easier to amplify than a single copy gene.
The tree I made with http://www.phylogeny.fr/simple_phylogeny.cgi, which calculates trees using PhyML, a maximum likelihood algorithm. I sometimes use RaxML or MrBayes, which usually generate trees that turn out about the same.
Next Gen sequencing is mostly used for mixed samples like soil cores or tree roots. It is expensive for a run, can only do short reads and it doesn't provide a consensus of all the copies of a multiple copy gene, causing problems comparing results to traditional Sanger reads.
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26380656 - 12/14/19 05:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Awesome work Alan. And kinda sucks there isnt a Ps. atlantis. But was still cool finding these guys. Hopefully i can find more next year. Only seen a small patch this year which I left those to drop spores
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Blue_Falcon



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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26380760 - 12/14/19 07:14 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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So does this mean when I look at the list of which psilocybin mushrooms grow in Georgia I should omit Atlantis and substitute for tampanesis?
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Blue_Falcon]
#26380889 - 12/14/19 08:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Blue_Falcon said: So does this mean when I look at the list of which psilocybin mushrooms grow in Georgia I should omit Atlantis and substitute for tampanesis?
Thats my interpretation.
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breeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26380974 - 12/14/19 09:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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So cool to see the true identity of atlantis.
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Greenween
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26381066 - 12/14/19 10:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bloodycarcass said:
Quote:
zerokool said: Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?
They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga. And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens
This is the thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1
And more pics here

Quote:
bloodycarcass said:
Quote:
zerokool said: Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?
They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga. And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens
This is the thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1
And more pics here

In the second picture, you can clearly see spent substrate(Whole oats?). Did u pretend to find these in the wild?
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Hartford
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Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26381122 - 12/14/19 11:03 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe a wild man put that there :P
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Hartford] 2
#26381139 - 12/14/19 11:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not spent oats. Thats grass seed pods. These were found in the wild, whether you believe it or not.
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Edited by bloodycarcass (12/14/19 11:43 AM)
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mind.at.large
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26381226 - 12/14/19 12:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenween said:
Quote:
bloodycarcass said:
Quote:
zerokool said: Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?
They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga. And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens
This is the thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1
And more pics here

Quote:
bloodycarcass said:
Quote:
zerokool said: Mind sharing which part of FL they were found in and the habitat?
They werent found in fl. I gave him a spiecmen and spore print from in Henry co, Ga. And no not growing from dung. But same area I find caerulescens
This is the thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24431883/fpart/1/vc/1
And more pics here

In the second picture, you can clearly see spent substrate(Whole oats?). Did u pretend to find these in the wild?
Those are clearly seeds
Also, awesome job Alan! This is so cool to find out
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Stosch
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: mind.at.large]
#26381283 - 12/14/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks Alan very interesting. What's your opinion on how these species caerulescens, mexicana and tampanesis started in ATL area?
I read something about a hurricane but would like to hear your opinion or findings.
Thanks for sharing your findings that cleared up the ATL7 atlantis galandoi enigma.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Stosch]
#26382109 - 12/14/19 08:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Blue_Falcon said: So does this mean when I look at the list of which psilocybin mushrooms grow in Georgia I should omit Atlantis and substitute for tampanesis?
I updated the list.
Quote:
Stosch said: What's your opinion on how these species caerulescens, mexicana and tampanesis started in ATL area?
I have no idea.
Quote:
I read something about a hurricane but would like to hear your opinion or findings.
I think they've been there for millions of years.
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Greenween
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26382330 - 12/14/19 10:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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They are clearly seeds that’s why I suggested that is spent substrate. Spawn is grass seed. Oats are grass seeds dude Looks just like how I used to bury my spent Tampanensis jars after I harvested the stones.
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breeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween] 1
#26382369 - 12/14/19 10:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah and grasses also grow out in nature. Bloody wouldn't stage a find man. Would be nice to keep this cool thread on topic.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: breeg89] 1
#26382447 - 12/14/19 11:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
breeg89 said: Yeah and grasses also grow out in nature. Bloody wouldn't stage a find man. Would be nice to keep this cool thread on topic.
Agreed, this is definitely a wild find.
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26382454 - 12/14/19 11:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ole mother natures monotub
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Doc9151
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26383098 - 12/15/19 10:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bloodycarcass, Beautiful find, looks like a similar habitat that I found wild sclerotia at the base of some fruit and a couple that had been washed up to the surface after a hard rain.
I personally believe that multiple Psilocybe species have always been in Georgia, The problem is that the majority of shroomers in the Southeast were only aware of Psilocybe cubensis as being the only psychoactive mushroom species. Now, with sites like shroomery, mushroom observer and other similar sites, more people are becoming aware of what's growing in their area and are able to get help identifying their mushrooms, whereas before books were the only source and they were far and few between and not a lot of help to most people because of poor pictures and the wordy text.
I believe that as more people get out and look, sharing observations and spores, we will see a much wider distribution range in the future and not necessarily due to cultivation but more with observations that were overlooked before in certain areas.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Doc9151]
#26383340 - 12/15/19 01:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I never dug anything up to see if there were any scerotia present just heard Formally known Ps. atlantis was. Though Ive only found a handful if that at a time.
And I agree until I found this site that was my understanding, when I first heard about them as a kid. This site definitely helped a lot over the years.
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King0fthajuice
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Doc9151]
#26384419 - 12/16/19 02:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: Bloodycarcass, Beautiful find, looks like a similar habitat that I found wild sclerotia at the base of some fruit and a couple that had been washed up to the surface after a hard rain.
I personally believe that multiple Psilocybe species have always been in Georgia, The problem is that the majority of shroomers in the Southeast were only aware of Psilocybe cubensis as being the only psychoactive mushroom species. Now, with sites like shroomery, mushroom observer and other similar sites, more people are becoming aware of what's growing in their area and are able to get help identifying their mushrooms, whereas before books were the only source and they were far and few between and not a lot of help to most people because of poor pictures and the wordy text.
I believe that as more people get out and look, sharing observations and spores, we will see a much wider distribution range in the future and not necessarily due to cultivation but more with observations that were overlooked before in certain areas.
I believe you hit the nail on the head doc. I am super excited to get out and find some sclerotia here this year. As well as all the cinctilus I was throwing away instead of printing.
Thanks Mr. Alan for the informative share!
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26385619 - 12/16/19 06:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Breaking news: Yesterday I got DNA sequence data from the sclerotia forming strain ATL7. It is Psilocybe tampanensis.
Hi Alan, thank you for all the DNA data work you do to decipher the exact psilocybe species in question.  I have a sporeprint of this variety, it is labeled Psilocybe galindoi var. ATL7, should I relabel this as Psilocybe tampanensis var. ATL7?
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Psilocybe galindoi is really Psilocybe mexicana, however what is going around as Psilocybe galindoi is Psilocybe tampanensis.
So you are saying that Psilocybe galindoi and Psilocybe mexicana are the same species?
--------------------
 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385656 - 12/16/19 06:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Breaking news: Yesterday I got DNA sequence data from the sclerotia forming strain ATL7. It is Psilocybe tampanensis.
Hi Alan, thank you for all the DNA data work you do to decipher the exact psilocybe species in question.  I have a sporeprint of this variety, it is labeled Psilocybe galindoi var. ATL7, should I relabel this as Psilocybe tampanensis var. ATL7?
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Psilocybe galindoi is really Psilocybe mexicana, however what is going around as Psilocybe galindoi is Psilocybe tampanensis.
So you are saying that Psilocybe galindoi and Psilocybe mexicana are the same species?
If im not mistaken galindoi is mexicana. atlantis is tampanensis
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26385683 - 12/16/19 06:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Okay, so the true Psilocybe galindoi is synonymous with Psilocybe mexicana.
And the Psilocybe galindoi var. ATL#7 going around in the cultivation community is actually Psilocybe tampanensis var. ATL#7.
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 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385710 - 12/16/19 06:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck, another thing.. Is Psilocybe atlantis a synonym of Psilocybe tampanensis ?
Or are P. atlants and P. tampanensis separate species?
--------------------
 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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bloodycarcass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385724 - 12/16/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: Fuck, another thing.. Is Psilocybe atlantis a synonym of Psilocybe tampanensis ?
Or are P. atlants and P. tampanensis separate species?
There is no atlantis. Whats known as atlantis is tamanensis. And whats been going around as galandoi is also tampanensis
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RogerTheRetard
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385737 - 12/16/19 06:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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RogerTheRetard
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385764 - 12/16/19 07:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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So the ATL #7 variety that Workman released into the community is not Psilocybe galindoi, but is in fact Psilocybe tampanensis.
That is honestly good to know, because I have these genetics under Psilocybe galindoi var. ATL #7. Will proceed to re-label this as Psilocybe tampanensis var. ATL #7. Cheers Alan for figuring this one out.
--------------------
 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385784 - 12/16/19 07:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does Psilocybe atlantis exist in the wild?
Is Psilocybe atlantis not a separate species to Psilocybe tampanensis?
Is Psilocybe altantis just a synonym for Psilocybe tampanensis all along?
Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this.
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 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385790 - 12/16/19 07:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Another question, fuck!
Are Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe tampanesis different species or the same?????
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 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385812 - 12/16/19 07:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe tampanensis are separate species?
Am I right?
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385825 - 12/16/19 07:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe tampanensis are separate species?
Am I right?
Correct
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: doctorghosty]
#26385829 - 12/16/19 07:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
doctorghosty said:
Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe tampanensis are separate species?
Am I right?
Correct
Okay cool! Thought so...
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: doctorghosty]
#26385830 - 12/16/19 07:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, Atlantis doesn’t exist, it was just a misapplied name to an already named species like weilii was for caerulescens, we seem to have a knack for that in Georgia
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: doctorghosty]
#26385836 - 12/16/19 07:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
doctorghosty said: Also, Atlantis doesn’t exist, it was just a misapplied name to an already named species like weilii was for caerulescens, we seem to have a knack for that in Georgia
Cool, good to know!
Too many fucking synonyms in mycology, confuses the fuck out of me, lucky we got the bro Alan Rockefeller to do solid DNA work and get to the bottom of things!
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385841 - 12/16/19 07:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Rocke is a legend for sure
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: doctorghosty]
#26385853 - 12/16/19 07:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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So likewise with Psilocybe galindoi and Psilocybe mexicana, correct?
Would Psilocybe galindoi be the misapplied name to Psilocybe mexicana?
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 angulospora subaeruginosa subsecotioides tasmaniana    
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26385857 - 12/16/19 07:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Correct
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: doctorghosty]
#26385871 - 12/16/19 07:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
doctorghosty said: The Rocke is a legend for sure
Yeah I'm a fan of Alan's work. Especially how he confirmed that this specific species I find here in NZ is Psilocybe angulospora!
  This species had been forever getting confused as Psilocybe makarorae until just fairly recently. It's actually Psilocybe angulospora. Psilocybe makaroare does exist, and it is infact a separate species.
I like to learn as much of the science behind things as I can. So I appreciate knowing these things regarding correct naming ect. (OCD)
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Greenween
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 137
Last seen: 7 months, 14 days
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26386042 - 12/16/19 09:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not trying to stir the pot but...your telling me that doesn’t look like buried grain spawn? Look where it’s growing from compared to the ground outside the red circle
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26386076 - 12/16/19 09:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenween said: Not trying to stir the pot but...your telling me that doesn’t look like buried grain spawn? Look where it’s growing from compared to the ground outside the red circle

 Yo fuckoff why don't ya, that collection in not cultivated, it's wild. Stop suggesting otherwise you muppet. Real annoying to be honest.
Either add something knowledgeable to the discussion or leave, everyone except you KNOWS that this collection was crafted by nature. You have no one backing you up here. That is obviously not spent grain spawn.
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Greenween
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 137
Last seen: 7 months, 14 days
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26386095 - 12/16/19 09:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You didn’t read my first six words how do YOU KNOW something was wild if you just see someone post a picture of it on the internet? Choose your words wisely
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Greenween
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 137
Last seen: 7 months, 14 days
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26386114 - 12/16/19 09:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Speculation is the gas pedal when it comes to science, it’s also healthy for discussion and it certainly adds to it. You seem very upset
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DnDRnD
Hobby cultivator


Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26386118 - 12/16/19 09:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Beautiful work! 
If I'm reading that tree correctly is it saying zapotecorum is the "parent species" for lack of a better term?
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26386121 - 12/16/19 09:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's just your false assumption, the habitat is witch those Psilocybe tampanensis are growing looks legit to me. I say they are seed pods that are coming from the surrounding grass or whatever.
They just don't look like spent oat grain spawn to me.
And all the other users here agree that the find is not staged, as you are annoyingly suggesting.
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,720
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26386126 - 12/16/19 10:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: Yeah I'm a fan of Alan's work. Especially how he confirmed that this specific species I find here in NZ is Psilocybe angulospora!
  This species had been forever getting confused as Psilocybe makarorae until just fairly recently. It's actually Psilocybe angulospora. Psilocybe makaroare does exist, and it is infact a separate species.
I like to learn as much of the science behind things as I can. So I appreciate knowing these things regarding correct naming ect. (OCD)
It was actually Jerry who did the sequencing and matched up the NZ collections with the fairly newly described Taiwanese species, P. angulospora
The only reason for my confusing it as P. makarorae all those years ago was that collections of it were mistakenly included in the published description for P. makarorae so some of the macroscopic and microscopic characteristics listed in that publication are erroneous and the description for P. makarorae needs to be amended.
The first record of P. angulospora in NZ is from 1969 and those collections were included in the list of collections examined for the publication of P. makarorae.
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26386127 - 12/16/19 10:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenween said: Speculation is the gas pedal when it comes to science, it’s also healthy for discussion and it certainly adds to it. You seem very upset
True. I like the speculation, but I think your statement is false and so does Alan Rockefeller and all the other users that have jumped on this thread.
Sorry for coming across as upset. I'm a bit emotional because I'm trying to quit smoking weed, bear with me.
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Greenween
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 137
Last seen: 7 months, 14 days
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26386132 - 12/16/19 10:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I made no assumptions You made accusations You claimed to not only KNOW things that you don’t, you took it upon yourself to speak for EVERYONE ELSE I never claimed that anyone “staged” anything It’s completely possible to come across someone else’s project Think before you flame somebody, I think it’s in the rules, and quit with the name calling. Those things don’t add anything to the discussion or your posts credibility
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: inski]
#26386134 - 12/16/19 10:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yo true inski, I just was meaning about how Alan Rockefeller confirmed your collection back in April this year to be Psilocybe angulospora...
Quote:
inski said: Alan has now got an ITS sequence of my collection below and it is a 100% match with P. angulospora, thanks Alan

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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26386138 - 12/16/19 10:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenween said: I made no assumptions You made accusations You claimed to not only KNOW things that you don’t, you took it upon yourself to speak for EVERYONE ELSE I never claimed that anyone “staged” anything It’s completely possible to come across someone else’s project Think before you flame somebody, I think it’s in the rules, and quit with the name calling. Those things don’t add anything to the discussion or your posts credibility
Yo true, I'm so sorry for flaming you that was not mature of me!!!
I just really don't think that is spent spawn though, I personally believe that environment to be a wild occurrence. 
So I came across a dickhead, but like I say, it's the marijuana withdrawals, I'm not chill unless I'm stoned.
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26386141 - 12/16/19 10:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bloodycarcass said:

Looks like an undisturbed naturally occurring environment to me, I'm sure the mushrooms did not fruit from spent mycelium from someones tampanensis cultivation project.  Again, I apologize for flaming. 
Everyone is entitled to their own speculation though. 
I for one speculate the collection to be a wild occurrence. And should have stated so without the nastiness. Sorry Greenween!
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,720
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26386144 - 12/16/19 10:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: Yo true inski, I just was meaning about how Alan Rockefeller confirmed your collection back in April this year to be Psilocybe angulospora...
Quote:
inski said: Alan has now got an ITS sequence of my collection below and it is a 100% match with P. angulospora, thanks Alan

That's true, he did get sequences but Jerry already did the work, that's all.
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: inski]
#26386148 - 12/16/19 10:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
inski said:
Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: Yo true inski, I just was meaning about how Alan Rockefeller confirmed your collection back in April this year to be Psilocybe angulospora...
Quote:
inski said: Alan has now got an ITS sequence of my collection below and it is a 100% match with P. angulospora, thanks Alan

That's true, he did get sequences but Jerry already did the work, that's all.
Nice one inski, it's good that all the up there mycologists can collaborate to decipher shit and come up with up to date taxonomy for psilocybe species. 
I like to keep up to date with the taxonomy.
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breeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,120
Loc: mass
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26386210 - 12/16/19 11:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DnDRnD said: Beautiful work! 
If I'm reading that tree correctly is it saying zapotecorum is the "parent species" for lack of a better term?
The tree shows that zapotecorum is in a separate clade that shares a common ancestor with all of the other species in the tree. So all of the other species shown are more closely related to each other than they are to zapotecorum.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,274
Last seen: 2 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26387013 - 12/17/19 12:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: I have a sporeprint of this variety, it is labeled Psilocybe galindoi var. ATL7, should I relabel this as Psilocybe tampanensis var. ATL7?
No varieties of Psilocybe tampanensis have been published, so it should just be Psilocybe tampanensis. You can use strain ATL7 if you like.
Quote:
So you are saying that Psilocybe galindoi and Psilocybe mexicana are the same species?
Yes, but no one has galindoi. What people are calling gaindoi is tampanensis.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,274
Last seen: 2 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: inski]
#26387028 - 12/17/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
inski said: t was actually Jerry who did the sequencing and matched up the NZ collections with the fairly newly described Taiwanese species, P. angulospora
Jerry and I both sequenced them. There wasn't really any work to do because Taiwanese researchers put the type sequence of P. angulospora into Genbank.
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Astoriensis
Saprobe
Registered: 04/20/17
Posts: 73
Last seen: 23 days, 3 hours
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26387083 - 12/17/19 01:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great job very interesting findings thanks so much for doing what you do
Quote:
inski said: Alan has now got an ITS sequence of my collection below and it is a 100% match with P. angulospora, thanks Alan

This is such a cool looking species just a beautiful pix ! I've got a culture of it ripping thru wheat bran currently too. So far so good!
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DnDRnD
Hobby cultivator


Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: breeg89]
#26387553 - 12/17/19 05:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
breeg89 said:
Quote:
DnDRnD said: Beautiful work! 
If I'm reading that tree correctly is it saying zapotecorum is the "parent species" for lack of a better term?
The tree shows that zapotecorum is in a separate clade that shares a common ancestor with all of the other species in the tree. So all of the other species shown are more closely related to each other than they are to zapotecorum.
Ahh thats way cool! I havnt read trees like that before so I wasnt sure
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Doc9151
Mycologist


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: DnDRnD]
#26388415 - 12/18/19 09:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DnDRnD said:
Quote:
breeg89 said:
Quote:
DnDRnD said: Beautiful work! 
If I'm reading that tree correctly is it saying zapotecorum is the "parent species" for lack of a better term?
The tree shows that zapotecorum is in a separate clade that shares a common ancestor with all of the other species in the tree. So all of the other species shown are more closely related to each other than they are to zapotecorum.
Ahh thats way cool! I havnt read trees like that before so I wasnt sure
To me, this is an excellent example of what makes the shroomery so great, people freely sharing their knowledge and experiences with one another, someone is always willing to try and help others educate themselves.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26389404 - 12/18/19 07:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
RogerTheRetard said: I have a sporeprint of this variety, it is labeled Psilocybe galindoi var. ATL7, should I relabel this as Psilocybe tampanensis var. ATL7?
No varieties of Psilocybe tampanensis have been published, so it should just be Psilocybe tampanensis. You can use strain ATL7 if you like.
Quote:
So you are saying that Psilocybe galindoi and Psilocybe mexicana are the same species?
Yes, but no one has galindoi. What people are calling gaindoi is tampanensis.
True, I guess the correct term to describe Workman's ATL #7 variety of Psilocybe tampnensis would be lineage then. That use of the term variety would indeed be incorrect, as far as correct scientific literature goes.
So yes, good to know that the lineage in question is Psilocybe tampanensis - ATL #7 and NOT Psilocybe galindoi - ATL #7.
Great skills for figuring that out Alan. I'm pleased to know that the ATL #7 lineage is Psilocybe tampanensis. Especially because this is a lineage that had been sitting in my library under Psilocybe galindoi this whole time...
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,329
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 34 seconds
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#26389871 - 12/19/19 12:29 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Epic!
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 1
#26391028 - 12/19/19 04:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
inski said: t was actually Jerry who did the sequencing and matched up the NZ collections with the fairly newly described Taiwanese species, P. angulospora
Jerry and I both sequenced them. There wasn't really any work to do because Taiwanese researchers put the type sequence of P. angulospora into Genbank.
So in Taiwan, do P. angulospora only fruit in dung?
In NZ P. angulospora pretty much only fruit in brown-bark woodchip, often fruiting alongside P. tasmaniana. Sometimes P. angulospora will fruit in tan-bark woodchip, very peculiar.
Notice the brown-bark substrate in these images. P. angulospora and P. tasmaniana prefer the brown chips as opposed to the tan chips that P. subaeruginosa and P. subsecotioides prefer...
 
I know this is not P. tampanensis related, but I'm just curious.
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relic
of a bygone era


Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,623
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Greenween]
#26392640 - 12/20/19 03:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenween said: Not trying to stir the pot but...your telling me that doesn’t look like buried grain spawn? Look where it’s growing from compared to the ground outside the red circle

Looks like water runoff scoured the area in the upper part of that pic and the debris it collected--in this case grass seeds--was deposited in the vegetation in the lower part of the pic, the spot you circled.
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: relic]
#26392695 - 12/20/19 04:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
relic said:
Quote:
Greenween said: Not trying to stir the pot but...your telling me that doesn’t look like buried grain spawn? Look where it’s growing from compared to the ground outside the red circle

Looks like water runoff scoured the area in the upper part of that pic and the debris it collected--in this case grass seeds--was deposited in the vegetation in the lower part of the pic, the spot you circled.
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bloodycarcass
Stranger Danger



Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 2,724
Loc: the sticks in GA
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26392775 - 12/20/19 04:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Precisely. If anyone buried something here they did a damn good job putting the dirt back exactly the way it was. 😂
-------------------- Back at it like a crack addict, with asthmatic lung disease
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: bloodycarcass]
#26392793 - 12/20/19 05:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Exactly. A natural occurrence. Great wild Psilocybe tampanensis find bloodycarcass, beautiful specimens, crafted by nature.
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Bagels
Huntress


Registered: 07/11/14
Posts: 1,029
Loc: NZ
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: RogerTheRetard]
#26397546 - 12/23/19 01:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerTheRetard said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
inski said: t was actually Jerry who did the sequencing and matched up the NZ collections with the fairly newly described Taiwanese species, P. angulospora
Jerry and I both sequenced them. There wasn't really any work to do because Taiwanese researchers put the type sequence of P. angulospora into Genbank.
So in Taiwan, do P. angulospora only fruit in dung?
In NZ P. angulospora pretty much only fruit in brown-bark woodchip, often fruiting alongside P. tasmaniana. Sometimes P. angulospora will fruit in tan-bark woodchip, very peculiar.
Notice the brown-bark substrate in these images. P. angulospora and P. tasmaniana prefer the brown chips as opposed to the tan chips that P. subaeruginosa and P. subsecotioides prefer...
 
I know this is not P. tampanensis related, but I'm just curious.
So very interesting. What is published says.. Habitat: on heavily manured soil, scattered. Also says..likely to be a species of Psilocybe genus in Mexicanae section. Inski cultivated them? in? How to understand a phylogenetic tree would be cool to know. Apologises on my mobile.
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Shroom-Explorer
Stranger


Registered: 07/15/21
Posts: 5
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Finally got some sequence data from ATL7 & a Psilocybe section Mexicanae tree. [Re: Doc9151]
#28101302 - 12/16/22 10:28 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Yes and the P. weilii species reported from Georgia, according to Mushroom John in his book, Divine Mushrooms is actually the same species as P. caerulescens.
Back in the day, John Allen reported that the P. weil was actually P. caerulescens and people went off on him about that identification.
Later Dr. Guzman from Mexico also verified that P. weilii was a synonym of P. caerulescens. And i recall some shroomers in Georgia had posted photos of P. weilii here back in the early 2000s. So this would be relevant to this thread. Seems that P. caerulescens is also been found in Mississippi and Louisiana. So it might also be in Texas as well.
Has anyone found any P. aztecorum in Georgia? That species also has been found in the northeast and in Canada as well. So maybe that species is also in Georgia?
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