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Invisiblearpeggiator
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: ShamanicRevival]
    #27276315 - 03/30/21 08:43 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)



So thanks to the HG plates I can take nice pictures of mycelium :laugh:

Is this just MS showing different genetics or mold/mushroom mycelium on the same plate? This is T3 from MS Syringe and I hope I made the right call to transfer from that spot since I just assume that that is mushroom mycelium :cool:


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: arpeggiator]
    #27289089 - 05/01/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Glad you liked them!


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Offlineshakezilla
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27289829 - 05/02/21 01:32 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hindsight said:
Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Doesn't the warming up of the plates with condensation (cookie sheet, heating pad etc) just cause condensation to "go away" temporarily? That has been my experience.





In my tests and experiments, that is only true if the agar has solidified before you apply the brownie pans filled with hot water on top of them. The hotter the air temps, the more moisture the air can hold as vapor. So the hot brownie pans will vaporize the condensation into the air due to heating up the air, and then when the pans cool down, the air in the plates cools until it hits the dew-point and then the moisture has nowhere to go except to condense on top of the agar and on the lids of the plates. On the other hand, if the agar is still in liquid state, it will absorb the moisture in the air and by the time the brownie pans have cooled, all the moisture has been absorbed by the agar, and the agar has solidified and locked it in so it can't re-evaporate.

I've tried cooking the plates inside jars, and also outside jars just naked in the PC, and in both cases, applying the brownie pans after. The brownie pan trick works in both scenarios, but I do find the plates have much more condensation in them directly out of the PC if they are cooked naked, and the more condensation they have when you start the brownie pan application, the harder it is to get them to clear up. The brownie pan trick still works 100% of the time but on my tests with cooking naked plates in the PC, I might get one or two plates that show just a faint hint of condensation coming back even after the brownie pan treatment. Also, the more condensation you start with, the more staining you'll have on the inside of the lid from the evaporated condensation (kind of like water spots on your car if you wash it and don't dry it off after). So for that reason, I'm going to stick with cooking the plates in jars then use the brownie pan trick after.




How do you get the plates out of the jars while they are hot and without getting the liquid agar all over the inside of the plate/lid? I can only think to turn the jar over to get them all out but I assume the agar would coat the lids and make a mess


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: shakezilla] * 1
    #27289948 - 05/02/21 05:45 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

That's why you put the jar upside down in the PC with the Holy Grails stacked on the jar's lid. Idk if it makes sense I'll take a pic if not


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: shakezilla]
    #27290214 - 05/02/21 10:14 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

^^^ That's correct. You put the jar lid upside down on the counter, set a stack of plates on top of the lid, then slowly lower an upside-down jar over the stack and screw it into the lid. You PC it just like that - upside down. Reverse the process to get the plates out of the jar. Try to work quickly and get the hot water pans on top of the plates within a minute or two of removing them from the PC.


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InvisibleAntsInYourPants

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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27290311 - 05/02/21 11:51 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sure it's been mentioned before but if you just make these a week ahead of when you need them you can leave them lightly unscrewed in a SAB and the condensation will evaporate. No need to fuss around with pans and extra containers.

Also thanks for finding these Alien. I was using mini rounds for re-usability but I hate how they stack and these eliminate some of the waste with mini rounds/petris. Just wish we could find something wider.


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: AntsInYourPants]
    #27290474 - 05/02/21 01:49 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I've noticed pooling/irregular agar surface when I do nothing about condensation and i'm beginning to wonder if it acutally dilutes my agar recipe on the top part. Maybe that's the cause for all the slow growth I've been having on my plates (even after trying like 5 recipes)... lemme know what you think please.


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Edited by jomanda1990 (05/03/21 07:08 AM)


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Offlineshakezilla
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: jomanda1990]
    #27290500 - 05/02/21 02:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jomanda1990 said:
That's why you put the jar upside down in the PC with the Holy Grails stacked on the jar's lid. Idk if it makes sense I'll take a pic if not



Idk how I missed this but this makes perfect sense, thank you


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Offlinesmokingtundra
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: shakezilla]
    #27366567 - 06/28/21 05:23 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Cavitation!  -- 10 Casualties out of 40



Just finished with my first try at the HG plates.  Ordered 2 x Amersumer 20 packs.  1000ml H20, 20g Agar, 16g LME, red & Blue food coloring.

Wrapped some 10 plate logs in foil, and also tried wide mouth mason jars.

Pressure cook at 15psi for 1 hour.

Let cool, removed jars and logs from PC 1 hour after 0 pressure, and stored overnight in cooler packed with a sheet.

Some looked pretty good, some with condensation on lids. 

*Thought I read somewhere in this thread that cracking the lids a slight bit before pc'ing wasn't 100% necessary, but I got 10 back that had completed cavitated, ruining the containers....just FYI.

Cheers!,
Tundra.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: smokingtundra] * 1
    #27366597 - 06/28/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I use these containers but modified as I had trouble with some different containers crushing when left slightly loose from the weight of objects on top of them finishing the seal.

I am really jealous of the visibility though.

Anyway, modifying the plates is still an option for people that are loosing containers and don't want to mess with slightly loose lids.  Quarter inch hole, double layer of micropore tape.  No more crushed lids.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #27366635 - 06/28/21 06:52 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Thats happened to me as well. Maybe 4 total out of 30. Ill probably put a hole on the side with tyek and mp tape. like this.

Josex' Guide to no pour agar
Quote:

Modifying the Containers


For this tek, we're going to be making a hole through the side of the containers, not through the lid. There is a few advantages to doing this, but the most important one is that it allows you get away with no wrapping the containers in foil or using paper towels to protect the filter during the pc cycle. More about this later.

A small hole will help in keeping the plates fresh for longer without drying out. There's absolutely no reason to make a big hole.

The only real purpose of adding a filter is to prevent the plastic containers from warping during the pc cycle, and for that a tiny hole will do. 
The filter is not really intended to enable gas exchange, since there's more than enough air in a container to support healthy growth even if there was no filter.

You can use whatever to make the holes; a small drill bit, a hot nail, a punch, a small screwdriver...
I personally like to melt a slit through the side using a small flat-head screwdriver, instead of drilling.



Simply take a torch and flame the tip of the screwdriver. Flame the screwdriver just enough to allow you to make the hole with ease. You can make several holes before you have to flame again.
Use only the tip of the screwdriver to make the hole.

Flaming red hot can make a mess of melted plastic around the edges of the hole. This can even happen in a lesser degree without flaming red hot, but you can easily scratch off the melted plastic around the hole with your fingernail.

This is the result.



Now cover the holes with 2 or 3 layers of MP tape. I personally like to add 3 layers of tape.



The combination of a small hole and several layers of tape allows you to keep the plates fresh for very long.
They'll be good for quite more than a month at room temp.
This means you can prepare a great number of plates one day and have agar plates handy and ready to use for many days.

3 layers of MP tape will last in good condition for many PC cycles. If at any point you see the tape has deteriorated, you can simply add another layer of tape for the next PC cycle, without removing the old ones.
You can stack layers of MP tape no problem.
The max I've done was 6 layers and that lasted for many pc cycles.





Edited by JHOVA (06/28/21 08:41 PM)


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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: smokingtundra]
    #27366937 - 06/28/21 11:31 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

smokingtundra said:
Cavitation!  -- 10 Casualties out of 40



Just finished with my first try at the HG plates.  Ordered 2 x Amersumer 20 packs.  1000ml H20, 20g Agar, 16g LME, red & Blue food coloring.

Wrapped some 10 plate logs in foil, and also tried wide mouth mason jars.

Pressure cook at 15psi for 1 hour.

Let cool, removed jars and logs from PC 1 hour after 0 pressure, and stored overnight in cooler packed with a sheet.

Some looked pretty good, some with condensation on lids. 

*Thought I read somewhere in this thread that cracking the lids a slight bit before pc'ing wasn't 100% necessary, but I got 10 back that had completed cavitated, ruining the containers....just FYI.

Cheers!,
Tundra.




One hour is way too long. I’ve been rolling stacks of 6 in foil and pc’ing for 15 min with no problems. I also leave them in the pc over night (don’t remove the rocker) and getting minimal condensation or pooling. When I remove the rocker there is a lot more pooling for some reason. Maybe the extra air speeds up the cool down. Still occasionally lose one like yours but probably just a bad one or cycles worn it down.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: JHOVA]
    #27367129 - 06/29/21 06:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

This post reminds me that the 1/4" holes on mine are way bigger than anyone would need.  It's just the size of my fostner bit and by no means necessary.  I double (and triple after a few cycles) my micropore tape to keep the GE from drying out my agar.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #27367222 - 06/29/21 08:01 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I just toss the plates that cavitate. It's like 1 in 25 or so.


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: smokingtundra]
    #27370785 - 07/01/21 05:48 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

smokingtundra said:
Cavitation!  -- 10 Casualties out of 40



Just finished with my first try at the HG plates.  Ordered 2 x Amersumer 20 packs.  1000ml H20, 20g Agar, 16g LME, red & Blue food coloring.

Wrapped some 10 plate logs in foil, and also tried wide mouth mason jars.

Pressure cook at 15psi for 1 hour.

Let cool, removed jars and logs from PC 1 hour after 0 pressure, and stored overnight in cooler packed with a sheet.

Some looked pretty good, some with condensation on lids. 

*Thought I read somewhere in this thread that cracking the lids a slight bit before pc'ing wasn't 100% necessary, but I got 10 back that had completed cavitated, ruining the containers....just FYI.

Cheers!,
Tundra.




I changed the OP post and recommended loosing the lid a little before PC due to this reason, at tight it again after PCing. There's really no need to modify the containers. At the beginning, my HG plates were really sturdy plastic, not even with tight lids would happen that, but maybe the quality of the plastic went down or something. Any way, just loosing the lid a little before PC should fix the problem.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27402580 - 07/26/21 09:53 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I'm going to give this a try today.  I've been switching over to 3/4 quart jars as I like doing grain transfers with them better.  And I noticed these plates will slide right into the 3/4 quart jars.

So my plan is to fill up a bunch of jars with unmodified plates, put my lids on them, and PC for one hour.

I think something cool about this will be that after PCing I'll be able to flip the whole jar and store them upside down, keeping the outside of the plates 100% sterile until I'm ready to crack the jar inside of a SAB or in front of my (to soon be built) flowhood.

Okay, off to run some plates!


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #27422235 - 08/10/21 08:05 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Some plates which I had sterilized and left in a cupboard (to let condensation clear) contaminated heavily. I think there's a fine limit to how much you can unscrew the lid before nasties can get in, even in relatively standing air. It was my fault tho, I will unscrew the lid ever so slightly next time. I'm not even doing much agar work anyway lol


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: jomanda1990]
    #27422506 - 08/10/21 11:30 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jomanda1990 said:
Some plates which I had sterilized and left in a cupboard (to let condensation clear) contaminated heavily. I think there's a fine limit to how much you can unscrew the lid before nasties can get in, even in relatively standing air. It was my fault tho, I will unscrew the lid ever so slightly next time. I'm not even doing much agar work anyway lol




Don't unscrew the lid that much before PC, and also, increase sterilization time, when the PC cycle is over, screw the lids again. If you use let's say the mason jar method, it is possible that inside the mason jar doesn't reach the necessary temperature to sterilize, it is recommended to sterilize 1 hr or more, just to be safe.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27422850 - 08/10/21 03:41 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

My HG plates are contam city these days. Loosened for PC and tightened back up after taking out.

Whether this is from running at 17 psi or not keeping track of whose lid goes to which container I don't know. But I am getting bacterial and mold satellites at the edges on all my HG plates :frown:


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Panaeolus Bisporus


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: karri0n]
    #27423653 - 08/11/21 03:31 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

On all your plates? How long are you sterilizing your HG plates? What method you are using? Mason jar? I don't think sterilizing at 17 psi matters as much as sterilizing for a longer period of time. I still have plates with no contam signs from a year ago, I wonder if the quality of the HG plastic went down or something and affected the lid?


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