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jackrabbitcytoplas
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
#26709413 - 05/31/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I tried it yesterday with some random hydrophobic spray for shoes I had because why not and it didn't do anything (applied twice to lid only and allowed to dry fully), I didn't even PC it, only filled the bottom with boiling water, closed the lid and allowed to cool, 100% condensation. Maybe there's something that sticks better to plastic, there's that thing with antiperspirant and clear coat but it's supposed to leave a residue. Also I don't think any coating will be viable after PC.
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Mr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: jackrabbitcytoplas]
#26709443 - 05/31/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you guys don't want condensation to form, then you gotta do what Hobbit and me does. Sterilize 10 HG stacked together in an outer container. This will give you at least 9 out of 10 free of condensation most of the time.
Or you can use the Mason jar method, stack 6 HG plates there and it will give you at least 3 out of 6 free of condensation.
There is really no other way around. The only thing you can do if you have condensation is to allow the HG to evaporate with the lid a little loose and it will also works great.
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jackrabbitcytoplas
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
#26710150 - 05/31/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, I agree, there are better already working ways to not get condensation. Only tried it cause I had the spray and it took less than 5 minutes including finding the can.
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gtshroom
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: jackrabbitcytoplas]
#26713430 - 06/02/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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My next partial solution: Stack excessive condensed HG's on cookie sheet (cs); place cs & HGs in oven, heat at 225-250F for 1 hour (need to melt the agar), let cool in oven for 2 hours. HG's in middle of stack are mostly condensation free.
Need to find some container to hold the stack stable in the PC, maybe some PVC pipe with end capped, i do not know
HG's have 71 mm OD
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ReverendMyc

Registered: 03/29/19
Posts: 1,496
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: gtshroom]
#26713710 - 06/02/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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GTShroom - I have been trying to come up with a good stacking tool for my 23qt presto. I was stoked when I read your pvc idea. Hell, I was ready to head out the door for Home Depot right now.
BUT: I had a thought and googled the melting temperature of PVC. DOH!
<quote>Traditional product PVC has a maximum operating temperature around 140 °F (60 °C) when heat distortion begins to occur. Melting temperatures range from 212 °F (100 °C) to 500 °F (260 °C) depending upon manufacture additives to the PVC.
Polyvinyl chloride - Wikipedia</quote>
<quote> Can I Use PVC Pipe for Hot Water? - Answeredwww.pvcfittingsonline.com › resource-center › can-i-us... Mar 11, 2014 - Here's the quick low-down on PVC and hot water. ... It just so happens that Schedule 40 PVC's maximum operating temperature is 140 degrees Fahrenheit, ... CPVC (schedule 80) pipe is rated for use up to 200 degrees ... </quote>
It might still work since I assume that those are operating temperatures and assume internal pressures. But I am scared to muck up my PC.
My foggy ones from using quart jars have all cleared up in a dark cabinet slightly unscrewed, so I am still happy with these. I am just looking for an improved percentage for this common sized pressure cooker. Or something that can be easily adapted to any size PC.
Good luck. Let us know how it turns out if you try it. I may still do some experimenting by putting some smaller pieces of pvc in quart jars to determine if they can withstand the temperature without ruining the PC.
-------------------- LAGM 2.024Stoned Gummys tek (Gummies from sclerotia or mushrooms) *Not just for stones any moreHow to succeed in mycology (and life) - know nothing, read everything, try something, and accept advice. Don't Panic   
Edited by ReverendMyc (06/02/20 10:47 AM)
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jackrabbitcytoplas
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: ReverendMyc]
#26713763 - 06/02/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought of using a piece of a ceramic tile on top of the stack, kinda like a pizza stone, to slow down cooling and reduce condensation.
Now that I think about it, if I put it half way across the dish I'll be able to judge the effect.
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gtshroom
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: ReverendMyc]
#26713989 - 06/02/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info on pvc, after your post, I was thinking:
There is a way to do it with 3" round metal duct, the duct would need to be cut to length and the ends capped
Edited by gtshroom (06/02/20 01:01 PM)
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DharmaForKarma
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: gtshroom]
#26714715 - 06/02/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
gtshroom said: My next partial solution: Stack excessive condensed HG's on cookie sheet (cs); place cs & HGs in oven, heat at 225-250F for 1 hour (need to melt the agar), let cool in oven for 2 hours.
I like the way you are thinking. Have you tested this yet? Plates that grew myc without contamination?
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ReverendMyc

Registered: 03/29/19
Posts: 1,496
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: gtshroom]
#26715344 - 06/02/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don’t give up on PVC yet. I did some testing and here is what I found. Tldr at the end.
I wanted to make sure that it wouldn’t mess up my PC if it melted. As mentioned above the operating temperatures for PVC are well below PC sterilizing temperatures. And more distressing the melting temperature are between 200 and 500 f.
Home Depot had some 2-foot-long segments of 3 inch diameter schedule 40 PVC. That was a nice fit for the HG plates. So I grabbed a couple.

I want to keep these out of the water, so I am using a trivet that was designed for my Instant Pot as a spacer.

It happens to be a perfect fit in the bottom of my 23 qt Presto PC.
 
Then I put in the minimum three quarts of water required by my presto manual and place the bottom spacer on the trivet.

With all of that in the bottom I have a ½ to ¾ inch between the water and the sterilizing surface. That leaves me 9 ½ inches to the top of the PC which is exactly right for 9 Holy Grail plates. Out comes the cheap assed miter saw, which is too small for a 3 inch tub, by the way. Also did a bit of sanding.

Next I put a Pyrex pie plate in the bottom. I won’t normally use this, but I hoped it would protect the PC if the PVC turned to burnt soup.
 
Then I fired up the PC for a normal cycle. Vented for 10 minutes, brought it up to 18 psi and maintained pressure for 30 minutes. Keep in mind this was just a proof of concept. I didn’t have any HGs or Agar in the PC. Then I cheated and did a quick release of pressure to see what was what. When the pressure button dropped I popped the top and the tube was perfectly intact.

I grabbed some oven mitts and pulled it out to inspect. It was naturally effing hot and I found that I could squeeze it to deform the tube. But it returned back to shape. Of course, you won’t want to move the tubes until the agar has cooled to solid any way, so that should not matter.
7 tubes will fit in my 23 qt Presto. So I could do 63 Holy Grails per cycle in theory.
You might be able to get 10 HGs in per tube if you use less water and shorter spacer. But then you need to be very careful with your water level and pressure to prevent your PC going dry. No Bueno!
Tldr: PVC held up to a full sterilization test cycle. I still need to do a full test run with HG plates and agar to determine if it is a good method for minimizing condensation.
-------------------- LAGM 2.024Stoned Gummys tek (Gummies from sclerotia or mushrooms) *Not just for stones any moreHow to succeed in mycology (and life) - know nothing, read everything, try something, and accept advice. Don't Panic   
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Mr. Alien
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Posts: 6,290
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: ReverendMyc]
#26715602 - 06/03/20 01:26 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I like that idea a lot! if you could find a way to seal both ends of the tube, that will give more insulation. I believe It needs some basic insulation to avoid getting condensation like i did in the OP or Hobbit with his pickle jars. Also, i would sterilize for 90 minutes at least. The agar is inside a HG container and the HG containers will be inside an outer container, and the PVC tubes are very thick material, which is good because it should give a little more insulation.
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gtshroom
McKen'ed

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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: ReverendMyc]
#26717309 - 06/03/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks, when you get brave enough to run a full cycle with the pvc tube, pls post. If 2 of 9 HGs have condensation, I can live with that
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Bsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: ReverendMyc]
#26723194 - 06/06/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
tydygy said: Don’t give up on PVC yet. I did some testing and here is what I found. Tldr at the end.
I wanted to make sure that it wouldn’t mess up my PC if it melted. As mentioned above the operating temperatures for PVC are well below PC sterilizing temperatures. And more distressing the melting temperature are between 200 and 500 f.
Home Depot had some 2-foot-long segments of 3 inch diameter schedule 40 PVC. That was a nice fit for the HG plates. So I grabbed a couple.

I want to keep these out of the water, so I am using a trivet that was designed for my Instant Pot as a spacer.

It happens to be a perfect fit in the bottom of my 23 qt Presto PC.
 
Then I put in the minimum three quarts of water required by my presto manual and place the bottom spacer on the trivet.

With all of that in the bottom I have a ½ to ¾ inch between the water and the sterilizing surface. That leaves me 9 ½ inches to the top of the PC which is exactly right for 9 Holy Grail plates. Out comes the cheap assed miter saw, which is too small for a 3 inch tub, by the way. Also did a bit of sanding.

Next I put a Pyrex pie plate in the bottom. I won’t normally use this, but I hoped it would protect the PC if the PVC turned to burnt soup.
 
Then I fired up the PC for a normal cycle. Vented for 10 minutes, brought it up to 18 psi and maintained pressure for 30 minutes. Keep in mind this was just a proof of concept. I didn’t have any HGs or Agar in the PC. Then I cheated and did a quick release of pressure to see what was what. When the pressure button dropped I popped the top and the tube was perfectly intact.

I grabbed some oven mitts and pulled it out to inspect. It was naturally effing hot and I found that I could squeeze it to deform the tube. But it returned back to shape. Of course, you won’t want to move the tubes until the agar has cooled to solid any way, so that should not matter.
7 tubes will fit in my 23 qt Presto. So I could do 63 Holy Grails per cycle in theory.
You might be able to get 10 HGs in per tube if you use less water and shorter spacer. But then you need to be very careful with your water level and pressure to prevent your PC going dry. No Bueno!
Tldr: PVC held up to a full sterilization test cycle. I still need to do a full test run with HG plates and agar to determine if it is a good method for minimizing condensation.
Do you add water in your PC and in your dish?
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squishy_zorro
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Odo]
#26729191 - 06/08/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odo said:
I have an update on using the dehydrator to eliminate condensation. Of the 12 plates that I put into the dehydrator with the lids slightly loose none, zip, nada had any contamination! I got 40 more HG plates in the mail the other day. I will need to get my hands on some new spores so I can experiment.
That's great to hear! I'll have to give it a shot myself. How soon after PCing them do you move them to the dehydrator? Did you prep the dehydrator in a special way first?
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psycho_nauticus
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
#26729730 - 06/08/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is the best way to cut your culture out of an HG plate when inoculating? Unlike a dish or plate where you cut down and hit the bottom, how do you know you have fully cut evenly all around to take a piece and inoculate? How do you do it Mr. Allen?
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The Fresh Prints
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: squishy_zorro]
#26729768 - 06/08/20 07:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odo said:
I have an update on using the dehydrator to eliminate condensation. Of the 12 plates that I put into the dehydrator with the lids slightly loose none, zip, nada had any contamination! I got 40 more HG plates in the mail the other day. I will need to get my hands on some new spores so I can experiment.
Really surprising. Lids loosened, and blasted with warm air? My dehydrators are filled with all kind of spores lol. How long did you monitor your plates before deciding they're clean?
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PMBastian
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: psycho_nauticus]
#26730418 - 06/09/20 02:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psycho_nauticus said: What is the best way to cut your culture out of an HG plate when inoculating? Unlike a dish or plate where you cut down and hit the bottom, how do you know you have fully cut evenly all around to take a piece and inoculate? How do you do it Mr. Allen?
Not sure I understand your question... Why is it different than a regular petri dish?
I do it like I would a normal petri: cut a ring around the colonized part of the agar (with the scalpel blade all the way through to the bottom of the dish), cut the myc pizza into however many pieces I want, then drop it to the bag(s) I'm inoculating.
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Mr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: psycho_nauticus]
#26730439 - 06/09/20 02:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psycho_nauticus said: What is the best way to cut your culture out of an HG plate when inoculating? Unlike a dish or plate where you cut down and hit the bottom, how do you know you have fully cut evenly all around to take a piece and inoculate? How do you do it Mr. Allen?
I think i get your question. It depends, if you are going to do whole wedge transfers i recommend to use 20ml per HG. So for 10 HG you would need 200ml of agar. Because if you do whole wedge transfers with 10 ml, the own weight of the agar wedge can make it brake into two pieces and fall and when that happens it sucks. 20 ml per HG makes the wedge thicker and more rigid, therefor less likely to break.
I personally prefer to do big pizza slices agar transfer for grains. You can maneuver way easier and your are less likely to fuck up.
Another thing, I prefer to avoid to cut the agar close the round plastic edges of the container. Contaminants are more likely to be near the sides than on the middle.
Edited by Mr. Alien (06/10/20 06:21 PM)
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jackrabbitcytoplas
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
#26730558 - 06/09/20 05:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was wondering why you poured them so thick. I've been pouring them as thin as possible, sometimes to the point where that little nipple in the middle is sticking out of the agar, otherwise they are murky as fuck for me. Could be my shitty LME though.
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PMBastian
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: jackrabbitcytoplas]
#26730609 - 06/09/20 06:26 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jackrabbitcytoplas said: I was wondering why you poured them so thick. I've been pouring them as thin as possible, sometimes to the point where that little nipple in the middle is sticking out of the agar, otherwise they are murky as fuck for me. Could be my shitty LME though.
Have you tried filtering it through a coffee filter? Works great for my GW agar at least, and I think GW is generally speaking more murky than LME.
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jackrabbitcytoplas
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: PMBastian]
#26732994 - 06/09/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm filtering with a few layers of cheesecloth to remove all the sediments/precipitate, it's a PITA and the results aren't 100%. I also tried using a paper towel with better results but the paper towel absorbs a ton of agar and it seems wasteful. I'm guessing coffee filters are also like that?
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