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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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How often do you lie?
    #26373291 - 12/10/19 02:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

How regularly do you engage in deception? How big of an issue is it when you do? How often is it to save face? How often to save other people embarrassment?
Do you think lies are necessary? Do what degree do you think they are necessary?


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26373310 - 12/10/19 02:43 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I usually just let someone believe their own lies.  As well as for personal security.

Why?

Simple!  Because people do not mind their own fucking business.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26373335 - 12/10/19 02:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You didnt answer the questions. Smoke and mirror nonsense bugs me. How often do you lie and why do you do it?


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26373348 - 12/10/19 02:58 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Every day if lying to myself counts.
No issues, I’m pretty great at it lol.
To save face? I dun get it. To save people? All the time. I’m super awkward so I can’t stand awkward moments.
I don’t think they’re necessary but I don’t think humans will ever be able to stop lying to each other.


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Offlinetimecube
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26373355 - 12/10/19 03:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I hardly ever lie - in a life lived well, theoretically, it's not really necessary. However I do engage in deception much more often. Deception by omission is the easiest method. And like Morel Guy said, often it's easy to notice that someone has gotten the wrong idea by accident - and not go out of your way to correct it.

In a more active sense, tho, when you're telling someone about something, you can't avoid coloring their perception of that thing. That's the whole point of communication. Many situations, if not all situations, and especially social situations, are too complicated to be easily communicated. You can only think about or talk about so many facts at once, and language, especially English, is slippery. Which facts you decide to present to someone and the words you use to do it is what makes the difference in the idea they end up at.

It's often possible to say a lot of true things to people that are confusing or simply don't leave them thinking true thoughts. Sometimes that even feels unavoidable, the inadequacy of empathy?
Is that lying?

And Feldman, I feel you man. To myself, at least once a day, just to get out of bed.


Edited by timecube (12/10/19 03:05 PM)


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: timecube]
    #26373370 - 12/10/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

THIS was the post that made you decide to make an account on shroomery eh?


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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26373397 - 12/10/19 03:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
How regularly do you engage in deception? How big of an issue is it when you do? How often is it to save face? How often to save other people embarrassment?
Do you think lies are necessary? Do what degree do you think they are necessary?




I would say that I'm a bit overly honest. I always try to communicate the reasoning and feelings of others and thus, I share way too much. I lie for the benefit of others more than myself. I never lie for personal gain (ie. asking for $100 when I know what I need is $50). I'm generally a terrible liar but if I feel that the lie is necessary and big, I've weaved the story so expertly that it becomes like a memory.


--------------------

Take a look at my journal


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Darwin23]
    #26373720 - 12/10/19 06:20 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I think you all have different concepts what a lie is.

I prefer to deny information with a salting of postured information.

I have no idea how often.  It depends how often people pry and impose their fat faces.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26373882 - 12/10/19 08:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I smoke pot secretly in front of a mirror
I don't call it lying, but if it is then maybe once per day


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26373960 - 12/10/19 08:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Well it’s not a secret anymore, you ruined it


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: feldman114]
    #26374051 - 12/10/19 09:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Just for starters:

1)  the question assumes there is an absolute truth

2)  that humans can know & understand truth

3)  that humans want to know truth

4) that truth can be communicated

5)  that truth has some special value

6)  that humans can agree on truth

7)  lack of paradox & contradiction in life

8) and the question is devoid of any humor

9)  that the world is static like a math problem, with one right answer

10) that the different truths at different levels harmonize and that one can know at which level to relate.

11)  That love can be quantified

12)  the question assumes: That subjectivity has no value

etc.

therefore the question itself is misleading and in a sense untruthful

The Doors:

I can't see your face in my mind
I can't see your face in my mind
Carnival dogs
Consume the lines
Can't see your face in my mind
Don't you cry
Baby, please don't cry
And don't look at me
With your eyes
I can't seem to find the right lie
I can't seem to find the right lie

Insanity's horse
Adorns the sky
Can't seem to find the right lie
Carnival dogs
Consume the lines
Can't see your face in my mind
Don't you cry
Baby, please don't cry
I won't need your picture
Until we say goodbye


Edited by laughingdog (12/10/19 09:57 PM)


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26374126 - 12/10/19 10:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Just for starters:

1)  the question assumes there is an absolute truth

2)  that humans can know & understand truth

3)  that humans want to know truth

4) that truth can be communicated

5)  that truth has some special value

6)  that humans can agree on truth

7)  lack of paradox & contradiction in life

8) and the question is devoid of any humor

9)  that the world is static like a math problem, with one right answer

10) that the different truths at different levels harmonize and that one can know at which level to relate.

11)  That love can be quantified

12)  the question assumes: That subjectivity has no value

etc.

therefore the question itself is misleading and in a sense untruthful

The Doors:

I can't see your face in my mind
I can't see your face in my mind
Carnival dogs
Consume the lines
Can't see your face in my mind
Don't you cry
Baby, please don't cry
And don't look at me
With your eyes
I can't seem to find the right lie
I can't seem to find the right lie

Insanity's horse
Adorns the sky
Can't seem to find the right lie
Carnival dogs
Consume the lines
Can't see your face in my mind
Don't you cry
Baby, please don't cry
I won't need your picture
Until we say goodbye




I mean we can dismiss everything using that same method. Its like saying "Whats the point" when your parents say get out of bed. SURE theres no point... but get the fuck out of bed and lets go to school.

I reckon post-nihilism would include things like accepting the world as we view it not just finding and creating our own meaning and what not.

To get stuck at the point of "We might not even exist" and be unable to say "The apple is red" when it IS red.... thats not productive.

You can remain at the question of what is truth if youd like though of course.


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OfflinePatchouli_Savage
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26374187 - 12/10/19 11:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I lie every day that I work, multiple times per shift. I work in an old folks' home so often the only way to redirect is to lie. For example Mrs. X has dementia and it is below zero outside. She is convinced that she needs to go home and does not believe me and becomes angry when I try to tell her she is already home. She has packed up her belongings and is attempting to leave. She is convinced her husband is on his way to pick her up. Instead of saying "Mrs. X your husband is dead and you will be living here until you die." I say something like "Oh my gosh I forgot to tell you your husband called and said he he has to work late. He got you a room here for the night and will see you tomorrow evening. I am so sorry I forgot to relay the message!" Then she may say "Well he didn't call ME!" To which I say something like "Pft. Men!" I might make up a story about my imaginary husband who also can't communicate properly and additionally does another absurdly annoying thing as I assist her back to her room / a common area / an activity / or an area with delicious snacks. I will say whatever I need to say to keep people safe and as free of anxiety or fear as possible.

In my day to day life with regular people, it is relatively rare that I lie. If I do lie, it is to avoid hurting others unnecessarily or because it's none of your business, who are you to me anyways?

I can say that I am blessed with a wonderful inner circle who love and accept me unconditionally. I can be who I am with them and I don't have to hide anything so I can't remember the last time I lied to any of them except recently when my friend's boyfriend was puzzled about why she became very angry with him when she was inebriated. I lied about why because it wasn't my truth to tell (so I gave him some bullshit about winter blues) and I was trying to leave the situation and go home so I was not going to stay there to mediate some argument that was unfolding before my eyes. I made the decision to blame winter blues instead of telling him all of the things she had vented to me because that is something they needed to discuss privately in their own time.

Typically I feel very guilty if I lie, so I am not very good at it. That makes it easier to just be truthful because anyone who knows me can tell I am lying anyways.


--------------------
"You are a ghost driving a meat coated skeleton made from stardust. What do you have to be scared of?"


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26374208 - 12/10/19 11:41 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Oldnameforgotten

Some items you ignored:

3)  that humans want to know truth

4) that truth can be communicated

Ask a shrink about this, you will find lots of folks, can’t face lots of stuff about themselves
- - - - -

6)  that humans can agree on truth

How many different religions are there?

- - - - - - -

12)  the question assumes: That subjectivity has no value

There is no agreed upon truth about which artist, which poets, or which writers are best.

- - - - - -

Do we use the truths of quantum physics to solve everyday problems? No! different levels of truth contradict one another.

— - - - - - -

Children inhabit different realities from adults although they overlap.
What is the truth about monsters under the bed, is some stupid grownup rational response the best way to quell legitimate emotional fears? If one hasn’t learned the psychology behind this, can one even hope to handle it in the best manner?

- - - - - - -

And the classic question: how does a man answer when he’s been married 45 years and his wife asks him if she looks good in a dress, or how her hair is? Is the truth a matter of emotion, of opinion, of rationality or what?

The lyrics from the Doors song, relate to the fact that anybody who is tripping realizes the world is thousands of times richer than any words can express, and that all language is pathetic compared to the simple experiencing of living -- not an original idea to them, or me.

A common experience of those who write journals, is to find them again after a few years, and read a few pages, and then discover how irrelevant it seems NOW, and to just throw it out.

Jack Kerouac typed up his novel On the Road on one continuous roll of paper that was 120 feet long, in an attempt to catch how fast experiencing happens. Of course it was an interesting experiment, and gives a feel of speed - - but also of course it is impossible to do such a thing.

To speak 'truth' with no awareness of whether, it may have harmful consequences, is a very one sided  approach IMO.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/buddhism/rightspeech.asp

And why do you ask other to confess, when you choose to withhold? Is that what you consider a good example, of fairness & truth?

If you are comfortable with yourself in this regard why do you ask a very small sample of people what they do? If people do lie, what makes you think they will tell the truth about lying? Is putting on make up lying? If the subject really interests you, and you have serious doubts I doubt you will find an answer here especially as you risk nothing. If the question is not serious, then there is no reason why an answer should be, although it might be :smile:

Patchouli_Savage has very kindly indulged you. Never the less there is no answer that can relieve any of us of taking personal responsibility for our actions.


Edited by laughingdog (12/10/19 11:49 PM)


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26374225 - 12/10/19 11:56 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

And why do you ask other to confess, when you choose to withhold? Is that what you consider a good example, of fairness & truth?

If you are comfortable with yourself in this regard why do you ask a very small sample of people what they do? If people do lie, what makes you think they will tell the truth about lying? Is putting on make up lying? If the subject really interests you, and you have serious doubts I doubt you will find an answer here especially as you risk nothing. If the question is not serious, then there is no reason why an answer should be, although it might be :smile:




Bro. I am not setting some master trap. I am also not withholding my own lies. I am merely asking the question about others lying. And yes the liars paradox is an annoying factor but I dont think it means theres no information to be gathered.


Why are you forcing this topic into such dead waters lol?


Me: "Did you steal my cookie?!?!"
You: "First we must ask what 'I' is. Have you heard of Descartes?" *wipes crumbs off face*


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26376232 - 12/11/19 11:05 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:

How regularly do you engage in deception?




I've engaged in more dishonesty at work than any other area of my life. I've purposely misled several of my bosses, who thought I liked them and my job, but actually I passionately hated both.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Oldnameforgotten] * 1
    #26376283 - 12/11/19 11:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Besides this time, never.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26376566 - 12/12/19 06:08 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've engaged in more dishonesty at work than any other area of my life.



I tend to put work and the authorities/TPTB in a separate category when it comes to deception. With them it's often a matter of self preservation and survival. I don't feel they care for my wellbeing at all and so I feel no remorse whatsoever at misleading or deceiving them.

When it comes to individuals and/or personal affairs however, I do a 180; I try to never lie on principal. Doesn't mean I have never done so by act of omission, or very, very occasionally when my mouth works before my brain does and in my shame I do not correct it, but very much for the most part I do not deceive people I care about.

A good thought experiment a wise friend once gave me when I was young was to consider a good friend turning up wearing a really, really terrible hat but looking very proud of it. When they ask 'what do you think of my hat?', what do you tell them?

I'd be surprised if there were any grown human amongst us who has not, at the very least, deceived others by the act of omission.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26377291 - 12/12/19 02:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've engaged in more dishonesty at work than any other area of my life.



very, very occasionally when my mouth works before my brain does and in my shame I do not correct it, but very much for the most part I do not deceive people I care about.




Dude yes this. Describes that situation so well.


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Offlinetimecube
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Re: How often do you lie? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26377552 - 12/12/19 03:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:


Do we use the truths of quantum physics to solve everyday problems? No! different levels of truth contradict one another.






I can't disagree with this hard enough. People get caught in the confusing time-dimensional aspects of the quantum nature of the universe. Think of it like this; quantum physics will eventually be used to prove that the universe is a vibrating hologram. "Different levels of truth contradict each other" only seems true at a surface level; truths look different from different perspectives but they are all reflections of the same fractal harmonic of the universe.


Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
THIS was the post that made you decide to make an account on shroomery eh?




Been lurking on the cult side forever, still don't know shit about it so not posting in there, but felt chatty and decided to try out a new nickname.


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