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Offlineblackout
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Re: Moisture Percentages Explained β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26371091 - 12/09/19 02:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

YogiBear said:
Bod is right on this one guys.



I don't think he is, i.e. he is not saying what you are doing.


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
This thread ignores that so i naturally would assume the thread means added water based on grain weight.



Seems to me bod is assuming if somebody says if you add 100g water to 100g then it's makeup is 50% added water, 50:50. But your method is not that, you would describe a 50:50 grain to water ratio by weight as a "222% moisture content"

That is an absolutely fair and logical natural assumption for Bod to make (if he did!). It is what I assumed was being talked about, and what the other poster, trubblesome also assumed. This was until I saw your figures did not add up to that at all, and your OP has no reference at all to this 45g per 100g figure, which I see as needless confusion/complication.

So then I was guessing that you were trying to calculate the true moisture content, i.e. taking into account the ~12% natural moisture content and that you messed up the maths. These are the only 2 methods of talking about moisture content that I have ever seen before, and why I mentioned it. Stamets talked about this calculation in "the mushroom cultivator" and I think other books, talking of drying out grains in an oven etc. While it is somewhat interesting to know the exact moisture content of grains I do not think it is necessary at all when talking about recipies, esp. as the likes of oats, wheat, rye, barley are all very close in moisture content. When sporeworks talked of weight based recipes it was things like say 105g water to 100g grain. (or 105ml which is approx the same)

To me this is the easiest way. I have say 560g of grain, how much water do I add? well if I want the SW recipe then 105g x 5.6= 588g. Very easy & logical. I always find multiplication to be easier for people to understand, if using division people can often mess up by putting the wrong one on top. Minimise the maths

Quote:

YogiBear said:
Don't make this Tek harder
than it is guys πŸ˜€



I think this is what you have actually done, and the confusion here is evidence of that. But I am hugely supportive of what you are doing and experimenting with, so do not take this the wrong way. I see far more reason to use weight based recipes rather than volumetric, and am often advising people to weight their grains before and after prep, so they can both monitor moisture loss/gain and to be able to repeat their recipes, and have others confirm they got the similar hydration -everybody singing off the same hymn sheet. I remember being surprised at the difficulty I had in finding the PF tek stated in grams.

Some will talk of "bring to a rolling boil for 30mins" but that can result in very different moisture content for various reasons, e.g. the stove may not have the same power and so spend a lot longer time in hot water before it actually starts to boil.


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Re: Moisture Percentages Explained β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: blackout]
    #26371128 - 12/09/19 03:16 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

YogiBear said:
Bod is right on this one guys.



I don't think he is, i.e. he is not saying what you are doing.


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
This thread ignores that so i naturally would assume the thread means added water based on grain weight.



Seems to me bod is assuming if somebody says if you add 100g water to 100g then it's makeup is 50% added water, 50:50. But your method is not that, you would describe a 50:50 grain to water ratio by weight as a "222% moisture content"

That is an absolutely fair and logical natural assumption for Bod to make (if he did!). It is what I assumed was being talked about, and what the other poster, trubblesome also assumed. This was until I saw your figures did not add up to that at all, and your OP has no reference at all to this 45g per 100g figure, which I see as needless confusion/complication.

So then I was guessing that you were trying to calculate the true moisture content, i.e. taking into account the ~12% natural moisture content and that you messed up the maths. These are the only 2 methods of talking about moisture content that I have ever seen before, and why I mentioned it. Stamets talked about this calculation in "the mushroom cultivator" and I think other books, talking of drying out grains in an oven etc. While it is somewhat interesting to know the exact moisture content of grains I do not think it is necessary at all when talking about recipies, esp. as the likes of oats, wheat, rye, barley are all very close in moisture content. When sporeworks talked of weight based recipes it was things like say 105g water to 100g grain. (or 105ml which is approx the same)

To me this is the easiest way. I have say 560g of grain, how much water do I add? well if I want the SW recipe then 105g x 5.6= 588g. Very easy & logical. I always find multiplication to be easier for people to understand, if using division people can often mess up by putting the wrong one on top. Minimise the maths

Quote:

YogiBear said:
Don't make this Tek harder
than it is guys πŸ˜€



I think this is what you have actually done, and the confusion here is evidence of that. But I am hugely supportive of what you are doing and experimenting with, so do not take this the wrong way. I see far more reason to use weight based recipes rather than volumetric, and am often advising people to weight their grains before and after prep, so they can both monitor moisture loss/gain and to be able to repeat their recipes, and have others confirm they got the similar hydration -everybody singing off the same hymn sheet. I remember being surprised at the difficulty I had in finding the PF tek stated in grams.

Some will talk of "bring to a rolling boil for 30mins" but that can result in very different moisture content for various reasons, e.g. the stove may not have the same power and so spend a lot longer time in hot water before it actually starts to boil.




Hhmmm... don't know what to say other than if you use these numbers you will have controlled amounts of moisture, no matter how the numbers are derived. I just did my best to provide something that is repeatable and gets good spawn.

On my 3rd batch this way and myc is looking good 😍

Thanks for your input and reply πŸ‘


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Offlinetrubblesome
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Re: Precise Moisture Grain Tek (OATS) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: blackout]
    #26371145 - 12/09/19 03:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

trubblesome said:
i'm not totally understanding the hydration % calculation you're using here - 86g water to 275g oats, and adding the 65 g from the soak time gets us 151g h2o:275 g oats, or ~55%? not 70%. am I missing something? my oats have been around 90% h2o by weight when they've finished drying.



this is still not the actual moisture content, as it's ignoring the natural moisture in the grains.

It makes sense to talk in those terms as it is practical for recipes, as long as people know what is being said.

A typical recipe would be to add 100g water to 100g grain. If the grain is 10% natural moisture then you end up with 110g water and 90g bone dry grain. So it is now at 45% moisture up from it's original 10%

I did some calculations here about commonly used recipes https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4371401






right, it's not actually the moisture content but it's the way bakers talk about hydration % when you're talking about making dough. weight of water:weight of flour, not weight of water:weight of all ingredients. Flour, oats, rye, etc, on average, have similar moisture content, with perhaps seasonal fluctuations depending on where and how it is stored. It just makes it easy to talk about when there is an agreed upon standard/method and why I was very confused by the % calculation here that seemed to assume everyone was on the same page.


--------------------


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Offlinesan pedro guy
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Re: Moisture Percentages Explained β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26371155 - 12/09/19 03:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I’ve had good results too and I measure volume with my eyes while pouring into the jars :shrug:

One question yogi, I was going to try your rinse method in the jar, how do you strain it? The strainer I have has holes to big and I don’t know what you mean by rinsing the grains 7 times in 2 minutes.

Thanks!


--------------------
Noob Grow Along 2022


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Re: Precise Moisture Grain Tek (OATS) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: trubblesome]
    #26371236 - 12/09/19 03:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trubblesome said:
Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

trubblesome said:
i'm not totally understanding the hydration % calculation you're using here - 86g water to 275g oats, and adding the 65 g from the soak time gets us 151g h2o:275 g oats, or ~55%? not 70%. am I missing something? my oats have been around 90% h2o by weight when they've finished drying.



this is still not the actual moisture content, as it's ignoring the natural moisture in the grains.

It makes sense to talk in those terms as it is practical for recipes, as long as people know what is being said.

A typical recipe would be to add 100g water to 100g grain. If the grain is 10% natural moisture then you end up with 110g water and 90g bone dry grain. So it is now at 45% moisture up from it's original 10%

I did some calculations here about commonly used recipes https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4371401






right, it's not actually the moisture content but it's the way bakers talk about hydration % when you're talking about making dough. weight of water:weight of flour, not weight of water:weight of all ingredients. Flour, oats, rye, etc, on average, have similar moisture content, with perhaps seasonal fluctuations depending on where and how it is stored. It just makes it easy to talk about when there is an agreed upon standard/method and why I was very confused by the % calculation here that seemed to assume everyone was on the same page.



Quote:

trubblesome said:
Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

trubblesome said:
i'm not totally understanding the hydration % calculation you're using here - 86g water to 275g oats, and adding the 65 g from the soak time gets us 151g h2o:275 g oats, or ~55%? not 70%. am I missing something? my oats have been around 90% h2o by weight when they've finished drying.



this is still not the actual moisture content, as it's ignoring the natural moisture in the grains.

It makes sense to talk in those terms as it is practical for recipes, as long as people know what is being said.

A typical recipe would be to add 100g water to 100g grain. If the grain is 10% natural moisture then you end up with 110g water and 90g bone dry grain. So it is now at 45% moisture up from it's original 10%

I did some calculations here about commonly used recipes https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4371401






right, it's not actually the moisture content but it's the way bakers talk about hydration % when you're talking about making dough. weight of water:weight of flour, not weight of water:weight of all ingredients. Flour, oats, rye, etc, on average, have similar moisture content, with perhaps seasonal fluctuations depending on where and how it is stored. It just makes it easy to talk about when there is an agreed upon standard/method and why I was very confused by the % calculation here that seemed to assume everyone was on the same page.




I knew Id be opening a can of worms with this Tek since it was more technical than a soak/simmer recipe.

Wish I was a biochemist. But all I know is how to get good oats and have a way to control the moisture content exactly to find what works for my myc. πŸ˜ŽπŸ‘

Maybe there is someone in the Shroomery famiky that csn give the numbers you are looking for???


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Offlinetrubblesome
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Re: Precise Moisture Grain Tek (OATS) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26371343 - 12/09/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

YogiBear said:
I knew Id be opening a can of worms with this Tek since it was more technical than a soak/simmer recipe.

Wish I was a biochemist. But all I know is how to get good oats and have a way to control the moisture content exactly to find what works for my myc. πŸ˜ŽπŸ‘

Maybe there is someone in the Shroomery famiky that csn give the numbers you are looking for???





it's all good, I see what your calcuation is based on now that you explained it. maybe toss something in OP for bakers out there like me who might find themselves lost calculating dough recipes :crazy2:.

i've got a batch of oats on the stove right now and I felt like maybe I phrased it weird and felt bad and wanted to come back and make clear i don't mean to talk shit or anything, if it works for you, hell yeah. if it works for other people too, hell yeah.


--------------------


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
Re: Moisture Percentages Explained β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: san pedro guy]
    #26371392 - 12/09/19 04:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

san pedro guy said:
I’ve had good results too and I measure volume with my eyes while pouring into the jars :shrug:

One question yogi, I was going to try your rinse method in the jar, how do you strain it? The strainer I have has holes to big and I don’t know what you mean by rinsing the grains 7 times in 2 minutes.

Thanks!




I used 300g oats to 100g water for my first test and got shroomies.

Then lightened it up some and really like what my new batch of 325g pf oats @75% is looking like.

I have these bad little strainers that were in this aprtment when I got here. They are for the sink drains. I suggest a small handheld cup strainer. Check amazon or google.



For the 2 Minutes i do:
Fill jar with warm tap water
Start the 2 minute timer
Place palm over jar mouth and shake 10 seconds
Place strainer over jar mouth
Turn upside down and drain and shake
Fill jar and repeat as many times as you can in 2 minutes

πŸ˜ŽπŸ‘


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Re: Precise Moisture Grain Tek (OATS) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: trubblesome]
    #26371479 - 12/09/19 05:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trubblesome said:
Quote:

YogiBear said:
I knew Id be opening a can of worms with this Tek since it was more technical than a soak/simmer recipe.

Wish I was a biochemist. But all I know is how to get good oats and have a way to control the moisture content exactly to find what works for my myc. πŸ˜ŽπŸ‘

Maybe there is someone in the Shroomery famiky that csn give the numbers you are looking for???





it's all good, I see what your calcuation is based on now that you explained it. maybe toss something in OP for bakers out there like me who might find themselves lost calculating dough recipes :crazy2:.

i've got a batch of oats on the stove right now and I felt like maybe I phrased it weird and felt bad and wanted to come back and make clear i don't mean to talk shit or anything, if it works for you, hell yeah. if it works for other people too, hell yeah.





HELL YEAH!!! πŸ˜ŽπŸ‘


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Precise Moisture Grain Tek (OATS) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26372956 - 12/10/19 11:32 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

YogiBear said:
Maybe there is someone in the Shroomery famiky that csn give the numbers you are looking for???



Your recipe is 31.5g of water per 100g grain. I am basing that on your recommendation of 70% of your 45g figure. The maths is no problem for me, but might be for others.

It just seems odd that this 31.5g figure is not directly said anywhere, since that is the usual way you would see weight based recipes stated.

Quote:

75% (325g:108g)



^^that one is 33.2g water per 100g grain.

All I am saying is that this line causes confusion

"Choose the desired amount of spawn and then
the moisture % that you want to work with"

As it is not the moisture %, and it sounded like your recipe was going to result in that moisture %. I was also thrown a bit since your added water was so very low, below 1/3rd of what I would usually see in weight based recipes.

I think it is interesting as I have added LC to bone dry grains before, grains which were wetted to high hydration and microwaved until dry again drier than the grain originally was out of the bag, this results in a porous grain which readily takes on moisture. I will give the low initial moisture level a go, I can't remember how low I have tried before.

I would wonder how the BE compares growing with this 31.5g recipe compared to say a 100g recipe, as I think it is so dry I wonder if the myc would struggle to use the nutrients within.


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Re: Precise Moisture Grain Tek (OATS) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: blackout]
    #26373691 - 12/10/19 05:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

YogiBear said:
Maybe there is someone in the Shroomery famiky that csn give the numbers you are looking for???



Your recipe is 31.5g of water per 100g grain. I am basing that on your recommendation of 70% of your 45g figure. The maths is no problem for me, but might be for others.

It just seems odd that this 31.5g figure is not directly said anywhere, since that is the usual way you would see weight based recipes stated.

Quote:

75% (325g:108g)



^^that one is 33.2g water per 100g grain.

All I am saying is that this line causes confusion

"Choose the desired amount of spawn and then
the moisture % that you want to work with"

As it is not the moisture %, and it sounded like your recipe was going to result in that moisture %. I was also thrown a bit since your added water was so very low, below 1/3rd of what I would usually see in weight based recipes.

I think it is interesting as I have added LC to bone dry grains before, grains which were wetted to high hydration and microwaved until dry again drier than the grain originally was out of the bag, this results in a porous grain which readily takes on moisture. I will give the low initial moisture level a go, I can't remember how low I have tried before.

I would wonder how the BE compares growing with this 31.5g recipe compared to say a 100g recipe, as I think it is so dry I wonder if the myc would struggle to use the nutrients within.




Sweet! Let us know your results with the ratio you use. πŸ‘

And the amazing thing about this Tek is that you get super juicy grains with much less water.

This picture was taken 24hours after the PC cycle.



Edited by YogiBear (12/12/19 12:09 AM)


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Quick Oat Grain Jars (No Soak or Simmer) [Re: YogiBear]
    #26373857 - 12/10/19 07:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I have to say, I think the formatting and icons, text size ect you used reads very well in the op. It’s separated nicely and clean to read. The explosion icons highlighting groupings of text is a great idea. πŸ‘


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Re: Quick Oat Grain Jars (No Soak or Simmer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #26374480 - 12/11/19 06:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Eat πŸŽ…πŸΌ

Very kind of you

Ive been programming and designing websites since Windows 3.11 first came out and hard drives were 200mb! Remember those ancient things called dial up modems?? LOL Was also a graphic artist for a book company too so my eye for art and layout are from professional training with Quark Express, Photoshop and Illustrator. Kind of 2nd nature to work over the visual aspect of a software program.

The software here on the Shroomery Forum is actually pretty robust for formatting. Use my Journal "private threads" function to work on things before hand


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Precise Moisture Oat Jars (no soak/simmer) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26380694 - 12/14/19 06:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

YogiBear said:





Did a couple jars with MS syringe just for a worst case test...

8 days later...



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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Precise Moisture Oat Jars (no soak/simmer) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26386477 - 12/17/19 05:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

How are you getting 80% moisture content by adding 108 grams of water to 300 grams oats?

You should also take into account the grains starting hydration if you can. Not really needed 4 this but its a thing.

I find having around 40% moisture content for grain jars seems perfect. 350g total preped weight 140grams being water 210 grams being wheat (same concept for oats im just using wheat atm)

I also dont quick prep because the higher contents i want create a sloppy mess at the bottom post pc.


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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InvisibleYogiBear
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Re: Precise Moisture Oat Jars (no soak/simmer) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: van hatton]
    #26386645 - 12/17/19 08:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hey! Thanks for checking out the Tek. Check the bottom of the tek for the moisture % disclaimer. Its all there πŸ‘

Basically the % values given are just rough numbers what the grain will hold using this tek method of hydration. If you are not sure where to start go with 300g oats and 100g water. Should be perfect every time for you. πŸ„

No burst grains using this recipe


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Offlinebboydamn
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Re: Precise Moisture Oat Jars (no soak/simmer) β€οΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™ [Re: YogiBear]
    #26606839 - 04/16/20 09:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hello. I'm new here.
I did something like this tek
I put the oats right in my jar and added hot water and went straight to the pressure cooker.
somewhere around 160g of oats and 90g of water.
I did not rinse with hot water.
The result was apparently good, with some grains popped in the bottom of the jar.
next time i will use less water.
have you tried to do it as I did, without rinsing for two minutes with hot water?
sorry if you look confused, i don't speak english


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