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OfflineLangcology
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Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization
    #26371402 - 12/09/19 04:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I know this is answered somewhere, but I sulck at searching apparently..

I know times when using increased atmospheric pressure, and how long to pasteurize; all of that.

I've got an idea, also, of the temperatures and times when using [some] low-pressure stream sterilization sorta, but this is where it's getting fuzzy for me:


If I have a drum sterilizer, that heats water to around boiling - with the following information:

212-230 Degrees Fahrenheit
1 Quart - Rye Berries (24h soak, 10min simmer)


How long should the Quart of R. Berries be in the sterilizer? It's this considered low heat sterilization? It low pressure Sterilization? I want to get this stuff straight!


Thanks a ton in advance!


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Langcology]
    #26371415 - 12/09/19 04:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

0-1 psi or ~212-215F is 8 hours or so.


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OfflineLangcology
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26371567 - 12/09/19 05:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you so much.

That seems like a long time for grain to be at that heat - just in general, I mean. - Do u need to worry about carmelizing the grain?


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Langcology]
    #26371673 - 12/09/19 06:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This is how big operations do it everyday. So short answer no.


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OfflineLangcology
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Smartattack]
    #26403336 - 12/27/19 05:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Cool :smile:

So what's "too long"? Is there a too long when using low/no pressure @ 212?


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OfflineLangcology
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Langcology]
    #26403342 - 12/27/19 05:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I mean, if I leave them in for 10 hours will it be better? I'm sure there had to at least be a diminishing returns for the duration, right?


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Langcology]
    #26403351 - 12/27/19 05:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Its better to just use a pc.


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: van hatton]
    #26403823 - 12/27/19 11:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van hatton said:
Its better to just use a pc.





I dont think that cuts the mustard when you need to do like 100 jars or dozens of bags. The one I am making will hold around 80 quart jars. Thats 8 runs of 2 hours @ pressure not counting heat up and cool down with a PC. You are talking about 24 Hours or work not to mention the propane or electricity required.


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Smartattack]
    #26403903 - 12/28/19 12:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah my steamer did about 120 qts at a time and was run off wood so it was a money and time saver.


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Smartattack]
    #26404342 - 12/28/19 09:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
Quote:

van hatton said:
Its better to just use a pc.





I dont think that cuts the mustard when you need to do like 100 jars or dozens of bags. The one I am making will hold around 80 quart jars. Thats 8 runs of 2 hours @ pressure not counting heat up and cool down with a PC. You are talking about 24 Hours or work not to mention the propane or electricity required.





Run 40 5lb bags in a steamer for 24 hours lmk.

Should i post my wheelbarrow full of bacterial grain from tryna to figure this out? Lol

Look up what the fungus hes not even using grain anymore for various reasons.

Also your not taking into account how long the mass of heated material will take to cool down.

With a pc i can knock the following day without fear of bacterial taking everything.


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: van hatton]
    #26404448 - 12/28/19 10:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van hatton said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
Quote:

van hatton said:
Its better to just use a pc.





I dont think that cuts the mustard when you need to do like 100 jars or dozens of bags. The one I am making will hold around 80 quart jars. Thats 8 runs of 2 hours @ pressure not counting heat up and cool down with a PC. You are talking about 24 Hours or work not to mention the propane or electricity required.





Run 40 5lb bags in a steamer for 24 hours lmk.

Should i post my wheelbarrow full of bacterial grain from tryna to figure this out? Lol

Look up what the fungus hes not even using grain anymore for various reasons.

Also your not taking into account how long the mass of heated material will take to cool down.

With a pc i can knock the following day without fear of bacterial taking everything.







So do the mushroom farms near you use a presto on the stove?


--------------------
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* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Smartattack]
    #26404548 - 12/28/19 11:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Field and Forrest has a 15psi autoclave you could park a car in


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26404595 - 12/28/19 12:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:


Big ass autoclaves exist. Theyre just prohibitive expensive for home cult.

A steamer full of bags can totally work but it isnt guaranteed. And if your culture is any less than perfect it will definitely fail miserably.

@VanHatton curious what kind of grain you used? I have a theory that steam isnt enough for oats because of their high endospore counts. But know a couple people using rye or wheat who’ve had plenty of success. High inoculation rates neccesary for sure.

Didnt realize wtfungi doesnt use grain. Are they doing sawdust to sawdust transfers then?


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: AyePlus]
    #26404656 - 12/28/19 12:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Alot of wheat some oats.

One issue is people pack their steamers full the sides of the barrel (mine is ss) get way hot so it just melts the fuck outta the grains.

It CAN work but is it easier to run a pc fuck yeah. Its also alot more work than just loading and go. :lol:

Yeah he switched to sawdust and some other thing about a year ago. I can look it up.


Also with large autoclaves u need a permit and shit.


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: van hatton]
    #26404678 - 12/28/19 01:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Drum steamer= good for sub, bad for grain?


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: gizmo1]
    #26404683 - 12/28/19 01:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes imo. You can make it work but its not worth it. Easily to mod some pcs for grain not like we need all that much grain spawn i can fit 24 lbs in one presto


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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InvisibleBph
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: van hatton]
    #26404693 - 12/28/19 01:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'd just rock more prestos. At 70$ each it's a no brainier for me. 6 prestos will beat a 55 gallon steam sterilizer in production and you don't have to refigure your prep. Just keep doing it the way your doing it but do more.  :2cents:


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: van hatton]
    #26404727 - 12/28/19 01:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

At one point I had the idea to try filling the barrel with bags that were  4:2:1:coir, verm + brf. Essentialy ready to fruit mix and inoculating with a whole bunch of LI or LC, colonize and top fruit in bags or cut the top off and fruit in mono’s.

Sorta like the cube version of supplemented sawdust, then you could mimic everything else about commercial gourmet grows like big fruiting chambers.

That idea evolved into building grow rooms with metal or tile walls and steam pasteurizing the whole room full of trays of manure/coir verm mix. Come in and spawn them all with grain, sorta like commercial agaricus production but smaller scale. You could also do the same but with a smaller steam pasteurization room and rolling carts with stacks of trays on them. Then Roll them out to cool spawn them on a clean table and roll them into a fruiting room.

One of these days boys one of these days...


For now an AA 941 fits about 60 lbs of grain so thats kinda a shitload. And if you’re cooking that much you can probably afford the Hefty pricetag that comes with it



And I hate running bags in prestos personally I think its worth the $$ for AA


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Learn about breeding

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Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: AyePlus]
    #26404744 - 12/28/19 01:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I make coir cakes with millet flour a lot, coffee to hydtlrate and a bit of gypsum


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: cronicr]
    #26404775 - 12/28/19 01:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That's ambitious can't wait to see pics. I'm just so lazy and way better with a chef knife than a skill saw so my mind goes to buying a used 6 burner range before building a room. So you cook grain in the room or just coir?


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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: Bph]
    #26404795 - 12/28/19 02:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

No grain it would just be pasteurization for manure based subs.. You’re gonna have to wait because as it currently stands an op of that size would probably draw more attention than I’m comfortable with. But if they go legal in the next Few years best beleive thats whats goin down. Shipping containers would be perfect for mid sized commercial cubes kinda like RR used to do back in the day but I’d want it insulated. One steam generator would work for multiple rooms.

Got the idea from a visit to an agaricus farm, they compost dairy manure and straw outdoors then steam it in place in gigantic concrete rooms before inoculating. They call it 2 stage composting but the second stage is basically just pasteurization.


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Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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OfflineLangcology
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Re: Low Pressure/Temperature [Steam] Sterilization [Re: AyePlus]
    #26412789 - 01/02/20 03:34 PM (4 years, 27 days ago)

Yeah, it does seem to be working alright for the sawdust blocks I've been making.

I'm curious about not using grain. It's always been a pain in the ass for me.. even with the flow for I've made, I still have contamination issues.

Do you think this setup would work better with bags using Coir/HPOO/BRF?

I want to grow gourmet and medicinal mushrooms.
I've had success with agar, grain, sawdust etc.

But eventually contamination sets in and poof. Ground zero. I'm just trying to find the best way to sterilize, and avoid contamination. I know having a rock solid procedure is the way to accomplish this, but it seems like each method I try ends up with similar results. Over half of my spawn contaminates. That's on a good day.

So I thought using bags would he better - one time use and all - then maybe using a different sterilization method - low vs high pressure, etc.


Does What The Fungus use oats? I know they use sawdust bags..

Great discussion everyone :smile:


Edited by Langcology (01/02/20 03:35 PM)


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