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 living_failure
unworthy
Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 352
Loc: spain, madrid
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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 Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes 
#26367002 - 12/07/19 01:33 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a high payed job (in my country). Almost 70% higher than the average salary. But i don't earn enough to pay for anything but a rent apartment.
Even worse than that, my mother and father haven't got their own apartment. That means that if the state doesn't give them enough retirement money (we are facing a pension crysis here) i will need to pay my rent and help them with their rents.
My uncle is a drunk with his own apartment. If she rented it she would have almost the same money each month by renting it that i get by working.
My cousin earns the minimum salary here, still, their fathers have a huge house in one of the best streets in the capital of the country. When his parents die he will have ownership over half a house wich is more money than i'll earn in my entire lifetime.
The situation is as bad as, in a few decades, those with a house will have a quality of life those without cannot even dream of. A total different social class just by the decision of their parents a few decades ago.
Under the current political movements, neither far left or far right parties have a solution. And the two parties on the middle actually seek to make it worse.
What is the situation if your country? do any party have a real and practical solution to this issue?
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JohnRainy
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/19
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: living_failure] 2
#26367037 - 12/07/19 01:48 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi.
Yeah man, people are facing that kind of stuff all over.
Sounds like you've woke up to the struggle.
This is what progressives are talking about. We want a society that invests in the people.
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dreamachine
Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: JohnRainy]
#26367074 - 12/07/19 02:15 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is that just in the cities? Are there no rural areas in your country where land/real estate goes for cheap?
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living_failure
unworthy
Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 352
Loc: spain, madrid
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: dreamachine]
#26367165 - 12/07/19 03:12 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dreamachine said:
Is that just in the cities? Are there no rural areas in your country where land/real estate goes for cheap?
Yes and no. Those areas are cheaper but there are no jobs around.
For example, now i live in the capital, but i used to live in another city and used to have a similar job (better actually) and bought (with credit) a small house with a nice garden. I left that city and left the work because personal stuff and there is literally no other job for me on that city. I could, of course, change proffesions again, but at my age is a higher risk and in the best case scenario it would be a solution for me (it would not, not coming back to that city ever again) but not for the society, that is my political concern.
Just to make it clear, i have a high paying job, the best at my age for almost all the guys i've met in the last 8 years. Nobody can expect or recommend someone to get a job like mine because there are not enough jobs like mine.
Most people in my old city were and are in the same situation i am now.
Of course in more remote areas the situation is dramatically worse, same taxes, no state hospitals or state sport centers or whatever, lower income, same and sometimes worse everyday prices...
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Morel Guy
Stranger
Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: living_failure]
#26367734 - 12/07/19 07:41 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Land contract, rent to own.
A lot of people join the military for the benefits. At least in the states. Free college, housing loans, medical, all for life. IF you survive to get out.
Some people rather rent because the only responsibility is to pay rent and utilities. Owning requires a great deal of work. You gotta mow, keep a mower functioning, clean gutters, paint and repairs. Completely responsible if something breaks. Can't afford a new heater and shit out of luck.
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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"
In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,011
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 7 days, 14 hours
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: living_failure]
#26368231 - 12/08/19 02:18 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was going to ask what state you're in, but I see you're actually in Spain! I'm clueless regarding property there and can only wish you and your family the best, OP  .
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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: living_failure] 3
#26369252 - 12/08/19 03:07 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
living_failure said:
What is the situation if your country? do any party have a real and practical solution to this issue?
We just force people who don't make enough money to afford rent to sleep on the streets and then get upset with them for being dirty street people.
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 ballsalsa 
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: chibiabos] 3
#26369279 - 12/08/19 03:18 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, its pretty insane. As a nation, we spend multiples of what it would cost to house homeless people on incarceration and emergency care, etc.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US 
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: ballsalsa]
#26369285 - 12/08/19 03:21 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26369287 - 12/08/19 03:23 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yep conservatives are penny wise and pound foolish.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26369295 - 12/08/19 03:28 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Yeah, its pretty insane. As a nation, we spend multiples of what it would cost to house homeless people on incarceration and emergency care, etc.
The incarceration is basically our housing solution, for some of the non-working homeless. A lot of homeless people in California more or less work full time. We also have a lot of homeless students who basically just couch surf among their friends.
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vault123
SangSpell
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: living_failure]
#26369914 - 12/08/19 10:27 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I blame this on the central bankers and Keynesian economists inflating the prices of everything into oblivion. It has limit though, and we’re long overdue for a recession so just be patient and keep an eye on the market.
You said you got a loan for a house before and have a good job now so I would assume if you’ve been paying your bills on time you should be able to get another loan. If you have good work and credit history banks would be lining up to give you a loan.
Personally I’m a very strong believer in owning realestate and there are a number of helpful benefits to it such as capital appreciation, building equity, and at least in my country a litany of tax benefits.
As always though location is key. Being at your country’s capital I would assume there is long term growth potential which should make it a safer investment. Without being familiar with the area though I couldn’t say for certain. I’m sure the capital of Syria is nice this time of year.
Annual growth in realestate is generally quite predictable. At least until central bankers come along and start up their money printer and then pricing mechanisms become skewed and we end up in a bubble that eventually bursts leaving the economy in a state of flux for a while.
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Judge Aaron Satie
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: vault123] 2
#26369926 - 12/08/19 10:38 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
vault123 said:
I blame this on the central bankers and Keynesian economists inflating the prices of everything into oblivion.
Annual growth in realestate is generally quite predictable. At least until central bankers come along and start up their money printer and then pricing mechanisms become skewed and we end up in a bubble that eventually bursts leaving the economy in a state of flux for a while.
You're confusing central bankers and Keynesian economists with private banks.
It was the private banks that 'inflated prices of everything into oblivion'. It was also the private banks that created the 'bubble that eventually burst'.
Keynesian economists and the Central Bank prevented a subsequent Great Depression by 'starting up their money printer' after the bubble had already burst.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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vault123
SangSpell
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26369943 - 12/08/19 10:52 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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That is one version about the Great Depression. Is it time for another rabbit hole?
Since I’ve confused central bankers, Keynesian economists, and private banks, why don’t you clarify where I am mistaken?
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Judge Aaron Satie
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vault123
SangSpell
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: vault123]
#26369949 - 12/08/19 10:56 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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If by prevented a Great Depression you’re referring to the subprime mortgage crisis, they just papered over it. It can’t last forever.
Who has control over the currency supply central bankers or private banks?
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Judge Aaron Satie
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vault123
SangSpell
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: vault123]
#26369952 - 12/08/19 10:59 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I’m sorry that was the wrong video. That one is disgusting. This is the one I was thinking of.
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Judge Aaron Satie
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vault123
SangSpell
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: vault123]
#26369974 - 12/08/19 11:17 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Judge Aaron Satie
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: vault123] 1
#26370010 - 12/08/19 11:59 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
vault123 said:
Since I’ve confused central bankers, Keynesian economists, and private banks, why don’t you clarify where I am mistaken?
Sure.
After Glass Steagall was repealed, private bankers figured out a way to make a shit ton of money in real estate by making loans to anyone and everyone who wanted a loan and not worrying about whether they could be repaid, because the banks were now free to repackage and resell those loans to any schmucks who didn't understand what they were buying.
That caused housing prices to skyrocket, and when people finally started defaulting on their loans, the bubble crashed and the Central Banks put a shit ton of money into the economy to prevent a Great Depression.
Quote:
vault123 said:
If by prevented a Great Depression you’re referring to the subprime mortgage crisis, they just papered over it. It can’t last forever.
Who has control over the currency supply central bankers or private banks?
The Central Bank has control of the money supply, and they're now taking out all the extra money that they put into the economy while the economy is good so we don't see hyperinflation.
Quote:
vault123 said:
I’m sorry that was the wrong video. That one is disgusting. This is the one I was thinking of.
A summary of that video is Keynes says putting money into the economy is a good thing when the economy is hurting, and Hayek's response is that the Government doesn't do a good job of putting it in the right places.
I'll agree with that, but that's a criticism of Government, NOT Keynesian economics.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: vault123]
#26370022 - 12/09/19 12:06 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
vault123 said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/hey-barney-frank-the-government-did-cause-the-housing-crisis/249903/
“In the long run we’re all dead” John Maynard Keynes
Oh god, not this nonsense again (I'm criticizing the Atlantic, not you).
Only 6% of subprime loans were CRA. CRA subprime loans actually defaulted less than other subprime loans.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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vault123
SangSpell
Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
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Re: Rent, home ownership and the future of social classes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26370032 - 12/09/19 12:14 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Judge Aaron Satie
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