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dvnsr


Registered: 09/14/17
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Sterile until spawn to bulk?
#26369781 - 12/08/19 08:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I’ve always wondered, but never seemed to find or see anybody talking about the answer to why we have to have such sterile conditions when it comes to inoculating grains, but when it comes to spawn to bulk, we can just do it in open contaminated air, and nothing becomes contaminated.
One little step I fail to do to keep the environment sterile, while inoculating grain, the product is ruined. But popping the lid one day and completely exposing the mycelium to contaminated air, it flourishes on substrate
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Tormato  
The Goddess Kali Meh 😛




Registered: 07/01/17
Posts: 6,067
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: dvnsr]
#26369791 - 12/08/19 08:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Once the grains have become fully colonized the mush myc has a foothold on the grains making it almost impossible for contams to over take them. But in order for myc to have a chance the condition must stay sterile so no competitors can colonize first.
Spawning in open air the grains are already colonized so they continue to flourish after spawning.
Clean spawn is key....hopefully that helps
-------------------- Helpful Threads The Shroomery Store Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me! "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!
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Cybin_man
Circle the Wagons


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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: dvnsr]
#26369792 - 12/08/19 08:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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It’s because the grain has already been taken over by mycelium at that point where it basically protects the grains from other contams taking it over.
-------------------- mushrooms + my morning jacket = awesome https://youtu.be/xkY4isMi2Zc
 
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cronicr


Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: dvnsr] 2
#26369793 - 12/08/19 08:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thermophils my man. Bacteria that help us defend against mold spores while it colonizes. Or the use of coir, spores hate to germinate on coir
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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dvnsr


Registered: 09/14/17
Posts: 108
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: cronicr]
#26369806 - 12/08/19 08:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Psilocybe Cubensis is already at the mycelial state, therefore already winning the race because the competing mold spores haven’t even germinated yet. There is also a defense system going on called Thermophils that help fight competing mold.
Copy that, Thanks broskis 🙏
Edited by dvnsr (12/08/19 08:46 PM)
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Nichrome
I'm a torso!



Registered: 12/17/18
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: dvnsr]
#26369809 - 12/08/19 08:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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grains are very concentrated available nutrition. Everything likes to eat grain. Once the grains are colonized they are well protected from other organisms as they have become a living micro matrix of chitin which can manufacture a plethora of different immune responses depending on the organisms it contacts.
Bulk substrate is generally rich in cellulose but not much else. Cellulose is a great polysaccharide (complex sugar) and one of the main components for a good diet for most higher fungi. Cellulose on it's own however lacks many of the vital nutrients that fungi need and is not very available as a food source for most mold or bacteria.
Once healthy mycelium has colonized grain it has an immune system. Uncolonized grain is a rich food source where as bulk substrates are generally not.
You have to start with clean healthy flourishing mycelium. Look into building a SAB or purchasing a laminar flow HEPA filter. Learn all you can and just keep at it. You're doing great by doing at all, and everyone who has had success either waded though failures or spent tons of time communicating and reading (or both lol). Good luck and may the force be with you.
This is by no means the complete picture...
-------------------- “Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.”
Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson
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dvnsr


Registered: 09/14/17
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: Nichrome]
#26369820 - 12/08/19 08:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow. Spawn helps make the immune system for the Cubensis, then substrate is consumed to make the body. Sab, then flowhood later;)
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Nichrome
I'm a torso!



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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: dvnsr]
#26369840 - 12/08/19 09:14 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dvnsr said: Wow. Spawn helps make the immune system for the Cubensis, then substrate is consumed to make the body. Sab, then flowhood later;)
Not exactly. The mycelium that covers or "colonizes" the grain has an immune system. Parts of the bulk substrate are consumed but the majority of the available nutrition is in the grain. that's why the grain needs to start sterile so only one introduced type of organism can colonize. Once the colony is complete it is harder for other organisms to get at the nutrition in the grain as the colony defends it.
-------------------- “Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.”
Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: Nichrome]
#26369923 - 12/08/19 10:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because those spawn grains give the mycelium a huge advantage. Once colonized they allow the mycelium to colonize the bulk substrate quickly. If you were to inoculate something like manure with spores instead of grain spawn where they wouldn't have that advantage it'd be a different story.
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JohnRainy
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: cronicr]
#26369924 - 12/08/19 10:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Thermophils my man.
Can you elaborate?
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cronicr


Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Sterile until spawn to bulk? [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26369935 - 12/08/19 10:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thermophillac bacteria survive pasturizing, these will keep molds at bay while your substrate colonizes and is good food for our mycelium, it's why we get away with doing it in open air with things like manure but if you sterilized manure you race trich penicillium aspergillus and other molds
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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