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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Registered: 05/14/17
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Transform or Let Go
    #26369607 - 12/08/19 06:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The current political parties are corrupt.  I see this as a problem.  I also see two routes to take in terms of fixing this problem.  Take for example the Democratic Party, should the establishment be reformed and purified in terms of its corruption through a sort of transformation and insurgency from the inside out OR should another mass movement in the form of another political party seize majority rule over the corrupt Democratic Party ?

Some anti establishment types (Robert Reich) seem to support the former whereas many others (Chris Hedges) seem to support the latter.  Hedges criticizes Sanders in ‘16 for sticking with the Dems and not leaving them behind for something else.  What is the way realistically or ideally ?


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InvisibleHartford
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Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: Transform or Let Go [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26369617 - 12/08/19 06:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Let go. There will always be corruption in government. Obvious corruption, therefore, is a beautiful thing because it magnifies the truth we are all here to learn.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Transform or Let Go [Re: Hartford]
    #26369699 - 12/08/19 07:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Let go. There will always be corruption in government. Obvious corruption, therefore, is a beautiful thing because it magnifies the truth we are all here to learn.




Certainly all corruption isn’t the same or to the same degree.  However, yes, obvious corruption encourages a “counter punch” so to speak where a lesser more acceptable form of corruption is pursued.  You have lost faith in the D party I take it?


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Registered: 07/09/19
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Re: Transform or Let Go [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26369769 - 12/08/19 08:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

This may not be either/or solution. 

The difficulty with starting a new party is very formidable, and there have been some successes with the Justice Democrats 'change from within' approach.

People are going to have to do what they can with the perspectives and proclivities they have.  Some feel they can be effective at change from within the system, some are outside that and may be more effective at the struggle for a third party.

Chris Hedges is wonderful but I feel he is a bit too jaded in his outlook.  I think he was wrong to call for Bernie to renounce the Democrats.  Bernie took his lumps for Clinton so that he could remain prominent in the Democratic Party and look now, he is a serious contender to get the nomination, his non-stop work has brought so many of his ideas to the forefront.

As for third party option, it seems that without approval from the powers that be, it would be impossible without mass solidarity.  A 3rd party movement of the variety we are talking about here would be excluded from all the places that matter.  Debates, TV, all establishment megaphones, which would easily be used for vilification.  The only way around that would be to buy your way in.  That might be doable if you had many billions.  Maybe. 

The ruling class is well aware of their two party box gizmo that ultimately renders democratic expression incomprehensible, and the role the powerful opinion creating MSM megaphones play in maintaining it.  If they perceive a threat and resist, what can you do?  They own the damn thing.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Transform or Let Go [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26369944 - 12/08/19 10:52 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
This may not be either/or solution. 

The difficulty with starting a new party is very formidable, and there have been some successes with the Justice Democrats 'change from within' approach.

People are going to have to do what they can with the perspectives and proclivities they have.  Some feel they can be effective at change from within the system, some are outside that and may be more effective at the struggle for a third party.

Chris Hedges is wonderful but I feel he is a bit too jaded in his outlook.  I think he was wrong to call for Bernie to renounce the Democrats.  Bernie took his lumps for Clinton so that he could remain prominent in the Democratic Party and look now, he is a serious contender to get the nomination, his non-stop work has brought so many of his ideas to the forefront.

As for third party option, it seems that without approval from the powers that be, it would be impossible without mass solidarity.  A 3rd party movement of the variety we are talking about here would be excluded from all the places that matter.  Debates, TV, all establishment megaphones, which would easily be used for vilification.  The only way around that would be to buy your way in.  That might be doable if you had many billions.  Maybe. 

The ruling class is well aware of their two party box gizmo that ultimately renders democratic expression incomprehensible, and the role the powerful opinion creating MSM megaphones play in maintaining it.  If they perceive a threat and resist, what can you do?  They own the damn thing.





Hasn’t the Democratic Party been slashing and burning Bernies image through various smear campaigns?  Is it any less realistic to think he would assume ascendancy through the D party as opposed to a 3rd party ?

And certainly once in power it would be more ideal to be in as a third party as opposed to the D party I would think.


Edited by Yellow Pants (12/08/19 10:54 PM)


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OfflineLachlen
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Registered: 12/09/19
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Re: Transform or Let Go [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26371201 - 12/09/19 03:43 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Bernie is going to tax the hell out of the billionaires so we can live with money every month. There is nothing better than that. I want my 1000 dollars every month to live too.

Yang would be good for the money.


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