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OfflineKorean Jesus
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How much mushrooms to ego death?
    #26367607 - 12/07/19 06:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I did 5g and I didn't even get close. How much would one have to take to have absolutely no perception of self?


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:rastamon::getstoned::rastamon:


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OfflineShroomhunts
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26367644 - 12/07/19 06:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Depends on the potency and you. I'd say get a bag of gold caps and start munching till you get there if that's what you are looking for


--------------------

You never kno


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26367649 - 12/07/19 06:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
I did 5g and I didn't even get close. How much would one have to take to have absolutely no perception of self?





5g+ does it for most people. 5g+ of average potency mushrooms will have most folks pretty well "dissolved" .


It is possible that your mushrooms are relatively weak and/or you have a high "natural tolerance" to psychedelics and you require much larger doses than most people.





-OM

.


--------------------


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: openmind]
    #26367662 - 12/07/19 07:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Nobody can tell you this. I know people that go to the post office on 5g.


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: openmind] * 1
    #26367666 - 12/07/19 07:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

IMO, set and setting have a large impact on achieving a non dual state.

I personally can't have much of anything going on around me, no music or lights or people for gods sakes. Usually happens in near darkness or with eyes closed with heavy intention of introspection until there's no more self to examine.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (12/07/19 10:15 PM)


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: HamHead]
    #26367745 - 12/07/19 07:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Very true. Even on smaller doses I am able to get pretty lost if there's no distractions. 

But I will always listen to music while I trip. Never will go without music


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:greyalien:




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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: openmind]
    #26367766 - 12/07/19 07:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
I did 5g and I didn't even get close. How much would one have to take to have absolutely no perception of self?





5g+ does it for most people. 5g+ of average potency mushrooms will have most folks pretty well "dissolved" .


It is possible that your mushrooms are relatively weak and/or you have a high "natural tolerance" to psychedelics and you require much larger doses than most people.





-OM

.




It was very intense for me so I don't think this is the case. I saw many things like my life playing out before my eyes, but I always recognized I was me.


--------------------
:rastamon::getstoned::rastamon:


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: HamHead]
    #26367787 - 12/07/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
IMO, set and setting have a large impact on achieving a non dual state.

I personally can't have much of anything going on around me, no music or lights or people for gods sakes. Usually happens in near darkness or with eyes closed with heavy intention of introspection until there's so more self to examine.






:werd:  And this, totally.^



Set & setting can go a long way in taking one to that point .

Certain settings can be an "anchor" while others can be much more conducive to reaching such a state.

I mean I don't have much doubt that there is a certain point in the dosage for everyone where they will be laid out and wiped out regardless of where their body is at or what's going on around them...but set & setting & intention can do a lot for catalyzing such a thing with a relatively lower dose.





-OM


.


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Offlinegrati
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: openmind]
    #26367826 - 12/07/19 08:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I read your 5g trip report. You have weak shrooms, I get similar trips like yours on like 2g. It gets much more intense than that, trust me.

Right now I have not so good cubes, but I worked with very potent ones and I needed like 4-5g for ego death (not ego dissolve but full ego death!). Yeah, I've experienced it. The real thing


--------------------
The eyes are useless when the mind is blind


:trippinballs: Candyflipping :omgawesome:


Edited by grati (12/07/19 08:32 PM)


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InvisibleR.I.P.Zappa
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: openmind]
    #26367901 - 12/07/19 09:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You're way of quickly delivering the actives can play role as well.
I am sure many will agree that you want those tryptamines taking over ASAP within the first hour if you want to actually go somewhere with cubes without beating around the substrate.

:teareally:


--------------------
-The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought-
-"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".-
-When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".-
-If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.-

psychonautwiki.org

How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek.
Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: grati]
    #26368270 - 12/08/19 03:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I briefly got an ego death on Friday night from 3.7g dry Psilocybe cubensis B+!

Getting really different trips from the same dose same batch same settings; in the house alone with my two dogs. The trips are at two week intervals. This last one I knew was really surprisingly strong for 3.7g by 30 minutes in. Standing at the back door, the dark sky was covered in fractals, the houses were bright colourful and misshapen. And the clouds morphed into a Michelin Man type creature with a mouthful of razor teeth that then leans down and starts eating the sky and houses. I had to go inside and get my blanket.

The next hour I was keeping myself composed and discussing internally to let myself go. As soon as I did, I was no longer in the living room; I was floating in the darkness of eternity realising I exist simply as consciousness.

But then a couple of years back I took 8g dry Golden Teachers and did not get anywhere near ego death, though with hindsight I was resisting!

Just my personal thoughts trip team!

Take care,
DJ Ed.


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlinegrowbit
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26374845 - 12/11/19 11:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Honest answer, I got there with a specific combination:

1. 5 grams of strong mushrooms blended with lemon juice and left for 15 minutes before consumption
2. Smoking a very strong bowl of high quality cannabis about 20-30 minutes in when visuals were starting.
3. A very specific ritual of lying on my bed in the dark and meditating while the effects took hold.

Also, very important: fast on the day, meditate daily for 1 week before, abstain from sex if you can, eat vegan if you can, and drink plenty of water. Preparing the body is as important as preparing the mind, and you will go as deep as the universe will allow. The final point is that there is *always* a decision in every trip to go through the doorway or not, and the decision involves letting go of yourself and everything you think you know, and letting it take hold and take you away to the place of no-self. This is how you get there.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: growbit]
    #26374989 - 12/11/19 12:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

OP, the more I read your posts the more do I believe that smoking DMT is what you want.
DMT is closely related to mushrooms, psilocin is 4-ho-dmt.
But unlike mushrooms, DMT can be smoked for an instant rush. Smoked dmt can get you far far out, way deeper than mushrooms are capable of.
The smoked trip lasts only 15 to 20min or so, but it doesn't build up a tolerance so you can trip everyday or multiple times a day.

:alphabrain:

DMT can be extracted from legal plants easily. It's a few days of work only. Basically mixing three ingredients with water, suck up the upper layer the next day, let freeze overnight, done.
This way a gram is like 5 to 8 bucks, and as a full trip is less then 50 mg only, a single gram of dmt is like 20 to 50 trips.

With shrooms it's hard to say how much you need to get ego death. Forcing ego death usually leads to a rough time. Let things happen, if it happens then it happens.
I once ate 14g of shrooms in one session, and got pretty far out. Ego death, I don't know. I was no longer in my physical body, but I was still me.
On smoked dmt, with ~100mg in one big hit, I was completly ripped appart. Didn't know who I was, where I was, what beeing is, what time is, life made no sense, I made no sense..
Comming back to my body and realizing that I am me was very strange.
That was ego death for sure.
I oly experienced this confusing state of mind on smoked dmt so far.

-


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Offlineenamored
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26375059 - 12/11/19 01:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

man I am such a little bitch, 3.5 completely fucks my world (ego death layin' on my? futon)


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26375074 - 12/11/19 01:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
I did 5g and I didn't even get close. How much would one have to take to have absolutely no perception of self?





Such a noob question. So sick of the term ego death. Its way too broad of a thing to be defined. Theres degrees of ego death. I wish that term would just die.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26375137 - 12/11/19 01:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Seconded.

You don't go on your first bike ride and say, 'well, non-bike-ride me is dead now.'

Just because it's common to feel like you've dissipated, it's quite inane to consider that anything close to dying or losing a part of yourself.
In fact, like your new bike skills, you come out the other side having gained something.

But to address the OP - like almost everything else pertaining to a complex biotic individual, bio-individuality will present unique set of factors. Asking 'how much' will only ever reveal inconsistencies that further lead you astray.
Just take shit and see where it goes - if it doesn't go as far as you wanted it to, take more of that shit.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: footpath]
    #26375305 - 12/11/19 03:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It's hard to induce. Possible but not easy.

  5g will do it for me usually. Unless the mushrooms are lacking. It's unmistakable when it does. Like they said, silent darkness helps, weed can help if your into that.

Lol it shouldn't be a goal, if you get there you'll see how meaningless the pursuit was. It's a natural thing that occurs when messing around with psychedelics.


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OfflineSizlChest
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26375336 - 12/11/19 03:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

bout tree fiddy


--------------------
PrimalSoup's Tea Tek

"I always say the tea is like eating a burning tire covered in dog shit while someone steps on your nuts. Good luck!"
"Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once."
"I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."


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OfflineSizlChest
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: HamHead]
    #26375342 - 12/11/19 03:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
IMO, set and setting have a large impact on achieving a non dual state.

I personally can't have much of anything going on around me, no music or lights or people for gods sakes. Usually happens in near darkness or with eyes closed with heavy intention of introspection until there's no more self to examine.



:whathesaid:

When you look in with no distractions of any kind, your mind can go to amazing places, and conjure amazing things.


--------------------
PrimalSoup's Tea Tek

"I always say the tea is like eating a burning tire covered in dog shit while someone steps on your nuts. Good luck!"
"Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once."
"I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: footpath]
    #26375587 - 12/11/19 05:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

footpath said:
Seconded.

You don't go on your first bike ride and say, 'well, non-bike-ride me is dead now.'

Just because it's common to feel like you've dissipated, it's quite inane to consider that anything close to dying or losing a part of yourself.
In fact, like your new bike skills, you come out the other side having gained something.

But to address the OP - like almost everything else pertaining to a complex biotic individual, bio-individuality will present unique set of factors. Asking 'how much' will only ever reveal inconsistencies that further lead you astray.
Just take shit and see where it goes - if it doesn't go as far as you wanted it to, take more of that shit.





Awesome post.

I guess what i am trying to say, is that there is no "ego-death" built into psychedelics. its not like you can have "Ego death" on 4 grams then everytime you take 4 grams you have "ego death." to keep the the example on bike riding...its not like theres a bunny hop in the psych experience that you can actually do and accomplish. Someone else's bunny hop is another mans wheely. feeling a loss of sense of self can happen on any dose and then it may not even happen on smoked dmt. what psychs teach you is that there is no ego in the end...so how can something die if it never existed? when i hear "Ego death" i immediately think  :underage:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus] * 1
    #26376358 - 12/12/19 12:35 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I did 5g and I didn't even get close. How much would one have to take to have absolutely no perception of self?




I've just been reading your trip report:

Quote:

I really felt my mind losing control to the mushrooms. I could no longer deduce if what I was hearing and sometimes seeing was real or imaginary and my brain started fighting extremely hard to retain control even as I tried to give in my brain wouldn’t let me.

At this point I felt the most amount of terror I have ever felt in my life... I had no idea how to handle it.

Finally my brain succumbed to the mushrooms. At this point I felt the best I’ve ever felt in my life. Not just happiness, but every amazing emotion was amplified x10. Really every manifestation of what could be considered a positive emotion or thought was incredible...

...I was euphoric because I cared about literally nothing. I could have died right there and I wouldn’t mind. I was fully convinced I was developing schizophrenia and didn’t even mind one bit. Truly a unique experience.

The sense of self-worth I had was unreal. Think of the biggest accomplishment you've ever had, double the feeling of self-satisfaction you felt after that, and imagine feeling it for a couple hours straight.




I think you are in same kind of 'zone' as ego death - in fact the feelings leading up to the peak, and after the peak, sound similar to what I would expect - extreme fear before the peak and extreme euphoria after the peak.

The critical phrase here is "Finally my brain succumbed to the mushrooms". It's at this point of the trip you might lose your sense of self, but don't expect this to last for very long.

The "loss of self" aspect is really a means to an end (after all, you lose your sense of self when you go to sleep or blackout). If you are "aiming at ego death" presumably what you mean is that you want to succumb to the mushrooms in a way which feels like a powerful mystical / transcendent / revelatory experience. The "loss of self" is really a way of "opening the door" to this - the door is not the point of the experience, it is what is on the other side.

:awecluster:

I think it ultimately depends on whether the dose is sufficient to overwhelm your sense of self. If you haven't already surrendered to the trip when this happens, it can make you think you are dying, it feels like your consciousness is being snuffed out by the trip. If you have already 'surrendered' to the trip, it intensifies to the point where 'you' are not in the trip, it's just the trip by itself, if that makes any sense...

Like I said, this state of "no self" might not last very long at all. It's a kind of background state of consciousness that rises up to fill the void, like a deep bliss, where your consciousness seems to expand outwards into the universe at large and encompass everything. It's not really a visual experience, but I sometimes picture it as staring at a sky full of stars and experiencing that as a unified conscious entity. It's a bit like your consciousness has collapsed in on itself and then suddenly expanded out to the size of the galaxy, or been plugged into the matrix, or whatever it feels like to you.

You wake up into this weird headspace as though your personality has literally popped back into existence, and the trip continues along the lines you describe above - a feeling of great euphoria and positivity, that everything is OK at some fundamental level.

I guess the 'ego death' aspect adds a more mystical / transcendent / revelatory feel to the experience. It can feel like you died and experienced something beyond, that you encountered God or have become God, that you have uncovered amazing secrets of the universe and so on, discovered the matrix or the fundamental nature of reality, awoken for the first time... it takes a while to come down.

So... I wouldn't get too tied up in knots about the absence of self, it's more about experiencing something deeply profound, some deep encounter with a reality you did not suspect existed, that makes you go "fucking hell, what was that!"

Once you are sufficiently amazed by a trip, the "ego death" label is not so important, sometimes it seems to fit, sometimes it doesn't, you are the only one who can really gauge what counts as a really profound or fulfilling experience.

Maybe you could try nudging up the dose a bit towards 7g. Don't go overboard - you can obliterate your sense of self without the "transcendent" element of the trip if you take too much. You don't need to focus on ego death specifically; when I was tripping at high doses I just had the feeling that there was something more within my trips I was edging towards; I didn't have any particular idea of what it was.

:sunstone:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: footpath]
    #26376378 - 12/12/19 01:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Just because it's common to feel like you've dissipated, it's quite inane to consider that anything close to dying or losing a part of yourself.




I tend to think of 'ego death' purely in terms of being a psychedelic experience, a trip, not something where it happens and you literally claim to no longer have an ego. Maybe some people have that as a spiritual goal, but if someone asks "how much mushrooms" I assume they are just after a particular type of trip.

As for the death thing, I've had a few mushroom trips that convinced me I was actually dying, and quite a few more where I thought I was dead once the peak was over. A common theme of my trips was to believe I was God, in fact "dying and becoming God" starts to wear a bit thin after a while.

I always thought it was a bit of a cruel joke that people throw the term "ego death" around, and then at some point, when it is far too late, you realize that they meant you would literally experience the trip as if it was your own death. Or at least that could be one meaning of the term, and one way to experience it...

:aliceshocker:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26376379 - 12/12/19 01:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
I did 5g and I didn't even get close. How much would one have to take to have absolutely no perception of self?




5g of what, cubes?

Pan Cyans would have knocked you into 2022 lol.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26376385 - 12/12/19 01:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

you think that when you hear a perfectly valid word that describes an aspect of pychedelics? odd.


--------------------
:rastamon::getstoned::rastamon:


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26376442 - 12/12/19 02:42 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

what psychs teach you is that there is no ego in the end...so how can something die if it never existed?




How can something die if it never existed? asked the monk...

You are starting to talk like a Buddhist! I am half expecting a story about a fox or a turtle or something which will illuminate this paradox :lol:

Actually wouldn't that be an explanation of the term "ego death" - i.e. it 'dies' (in a metaphorical sense) when you have an experience that makes you understand it didn't really exist to start with?

The Buddhists would use the term 'self' rather than 'ego' which introduces a confusing Freudian slant on things, and they would regard the self as something illusory, not as an autonomous entity in the mind.

Your comment led me to start browsing through my Penguin edition of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, as you do (every good home should have one).

:raptorJesus:

In the introduction the Dalai Lama explains the Buddhist idea of self -

Quote:

Our sense of self can, upon examination, be seen as a complex flow of mental and physical events ... this sense of self is simply a mental construct




Which is not a million miles away from how contemporary science views it.

The ultimate point of all this is not really the "loss of the sense of self" which is a vague term that could apply in various ways to any trip, or stages of sleep, or unconsciousness caused by excessive alcohol and so on.

Going back to the TBOTD, the key term and the real goal is the "inner radiance", the subtlest, most fundamental level of mind in this scheme - the same thing as the "clear light" Leary talks about in "The Psychedelic Experience". I think "inner radiance" is a better term because it sounds a bit more down to earth and expresses it better as something which is always there. From the glossary:

Quote:

this inner radiance becomes manifest only when the gross mind has ceased to function. Such a dissolution is experienced by ordinary beings, naturally, at the time of death, but it can also be experientially cultivated through the practices of unsurpassed yogatantra




The idea is that both meditation (yogatantra) and death are types of "intermediate states" of consciousness where this inner radiance can be experienced. There is also an "intermediate state of dreams" and it would not be too much of a stretch to think of a psychedelic experience as an "intermediate state" of consciousness, even if the Buddhists themselves would not approve.

The experience of the inner radiance in its fullest sense is tied up with the idea of dying, and the TBOTD is really a set of meditation exercises designed to practice for this and enable the meditator to recognize this inner radiance, and not fear it or resist it (sounds like familiar advice). So a trip is perhaps comparable to a type of meditation exercise which allows you to experience this "inner radiance" at some level, and if the trip makes you think you are dying, the comparison is even stronger.

:nyan:

I don't pretend to be a Buddhist or to understand any of this stuff in detail, but from my experience of tripping I do think there is a type of consciousness 'behind' your normal sense of self which in some sense underlies it, and describing it as an 'inner radiance' seems reasonable when it matches so closely with some of the descriptions from Buddhism. Meditation and Psychedelics are both ways of exploring your consciousness, so I don't suppose it should be too surprising if they overlap.

I don't take all this too literally - I think the whole exercise of comparing psychedelics to esoteric versions of Buddhism has to be taken with a pinch of salt - it's fun as an intellectual 'game' but I can understand why it annoys people (not that it stops me posting about it) :lol:

Ultimately, the trips speak for themselves and if you delve into the mushroom experience you will find all kinds of things down there...

Quote:

Let us dwell feeding on joy like the Radiant Gods




Quote:

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons, even death may die




Wait, that last quote is not from the Tibetan Book of the Dead! It's from the Necronomicon! Let me out of here!

:cthulhu:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineSocrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
Last seen: 17 days, 11 hours
Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26376743 - 12/12/19 08:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The idea of ego-death seems to arise from our subconscious (and for some conscious) fear of our own mortality. Although some have reservations about Wikipedia, I think the wikipedia page on ego-death is pretty fantastic.

Here's a quote found on that page:

"Repeated experience of the death crisis and its confrontation with the idea of physical death leads finally to an acceptance of personal mortality, without further illusions. The death crisis is then greeted with equanimity."

Thus I think the term ego-death, as many have pointed out here, is a broad term used to describe either a "type" of experience or, for some, a destination (I believe in the latter). Thus, every experience brings one closer to "ego-death" if that is what they seek and intend to gain from their experiences. This feeling of "dying" is just one type of experience that can occur. I don't believe I've ever had that experience on the intensity level sought when people seek an "ego-death" but I've had experiences where my sense of self had completely disappeared. Those experiences opened up my eyes to the fact that we create borders between objects, experiences etc to better manage our modern lifestyle but that the world is a symbiotic whole of complex interconnectedness.

Anyway, as many have stated, there is no number that will get you there (because of potency, set & setting, your own mindset, etc). So if something doesn't reach the experience you want, take more next time. Eventually you'll get the experience you want (maybe even more intense than you expected).

Good luck!


--------------------


Edited by Socrateshroom (12/12/19 08:26 AM)


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26376882 - 12/12/19 09:58 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
Quote:

what psychs teach you is that there is no ego in the end...so how can something die if it never existed?




How can something die if it never existed? asked the monk...

You are starting to talk like a Buddhist! I am half expecting a story about a fox or a turtle or something which will illuminate this paradox :lol:

Actually wouldn't that be an explanation of the term "ego death" - i.e. it 'dies' (in a metaphorical sense) when you have an experience that makes you understand it didn't really exist to start with?

The Buddhists would use the term 'self' rather than 'ego' which introduces a confusing Freudian slant on things, and they would regard the self as something illusory, not as an autonomous entity in the mind.

Your comment led me to start browsing through my Penguin edition of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, as you do (every good home should have one).

:raptorJesus:

In the introduction the Dalai Lama explains the Buddhist idea of self -

Quote:

Our sense of self can, upon examination, be seen as a complex flow of mental and physical events ... this sense of self is simply a mental construct




Which is not a million miles away from how contemporary science views it.

The ultimate point of all this is not really the "loss of the sense of self" which is a vague term that could apply in various ways to any trip, or stages of sleep, or unconsciousness caused by excessive alcohol and so on.

Going back to the TBOTD, the key term and the real goal is the "inner radiance", the subtlest, most fundamental level of mind in this scheme - the same thing as the "clear light" Leary talks about in "The Psychedelic Experience". I think "inner radiance" is a better term because it sounds a bit more down to earth and expresses it better as something which is always there. From the glossary:

Quote:

this inner radiance becomes manifest only when the gross mind has ceased to function. Such a dissolution is experienced by ordinary beings, naturally, at the time of death, but it can also be experientially cultivated through the practices of unsurpassed yogatantra




The idea is that both meditation (yogatantra) and death are types of "intermediate states" of consciousness where this inner radiance can be experienced. There is also an "intermediate state of dreams" and it would not be too much of a stretch to think of a psychedelic experience as an "intermediate state" of consciousness, even if the Buddhists themselves would not approve.

The experience of the inner radiance in its fullest sense is tied up with the idea of dying, and the TBOTD is really a set of meditation exercises designed to practice for this and enable the meditator to recognize this inner radiance, and not fear it or resist it (sounds like familiar advice). So a trip is perhaps comparable to a type of meditation exercise which allows you to experience this "inner radiance" at some level, and if the trip makes you think you are dying, the comparison is even stronger.

:nyan:

I don't pretend to be a Buddhist or to understand any of this stuff in detail, but from my experience of tripping I do think there is a type of consciousness 'behind' your normal sense of self which in some sense underlies it, and describing it as an 'inner radiance' seems reasonable when it matches so closely with some of the descriptions from Buddhism. Meditation and Psychedelics are both ways of exploring your consciousness, so I don't suppose it should be too surprising if they overlap.

I don't take all this too literally - I think the whole exercise of comparing psychedelics to esoteric versions of Buddhism has to be taken with a pinch of salt - it's fun as an intellectual 'game' but I can understand why it annoys people (not that it stops me posting about it) :lol:

Ultimately, the trips speak for themselves and if you delve into the mushroom experience you will find all kinds of things down there...

Quote:

Let us dwell feeding on joy like the Radiant Gods




Quote:

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons, even death may die




Wait, that last quote is not from the Tibetan Book of the Dead! It's from the Necronomicon! Let me out of here!

:cthulhu:





funny, i want to become a Buddhist and but i struggle with the labeling. i dont want it to come off "oh so you think youre mr.knowitall ay?" i think ill just stick to being a psychedelic Christian/agnostic. Christians nowadays take a lot of shit and I'm good at that so it's a nice fit.

Fox/turtle story coming soon :lol:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Edited by Bill_Oreilly (12/12/19 10:10 AM)


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Offlinefootpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
Posts: 1,367
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #26377302 - 12/12/19 02:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Just keep submitting to BillOtheism, I think it suits you well.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
Humano
I'm a teapot
Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
Re: How much mushrooms to ego death? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26377325 - 12/12/19 02:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The ego is very helpful. When eating for example, you feed your self and not the other person. And it doesn't die during ego death it's just your reasoning brain is able to see the fears concerns anxiety that you carry and their not that big of a deal but the ego likes to worry, for survival but not all is logical.


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