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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinelorddavidone
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difficult discussion of Torah * 1
    #12254174 - 03/23/10 09:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i have a friend who is an ultra orthodox jew.  his son just gave borth to a child with a facial deformity.  and now i quote from the Bible, Leviticus:

Rules for Priests
16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.' " 24 So Moses told this to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites.

so i asked a high rabbi that i know:
So, my friend’s son had a baby with a cleft pallet. I had just read the following passage.  now I don’t know what to say.  My wife’s father also had a severe birth defect.  It seems to say that the defect that was caused by G_D and repulses G_D at the same time.  so what does one say to the father and grandparents?  Surely they are intimately aware of this passage and while the child gets to eat the holy food he is barred from the alter.  It is as if the creation of Hashem is unclean from birth.  I find this stuff very difficult to understand or accept.  And of course I am cross eyed from birth so I guess that leaves me out as well.  too bad as I had high hopes that I might be the chosen one.  I guess not.


and he said:
AS A STUDENT OF THE ‘KABALAH’ I AM SURE YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THIS BACKWARDS. IT IS THUSLY:
WHEN HASEM RELIZES THAT A PERSON IS NOT FIT TO SERVE HIM, EITHER BECAUSE HIS CURRENT TRANSGRESSIONS
OR PRIOR ‘LIFE’ TRANGRESSIONS HE MAKES HIM PHYSICALLY IMPAIRED SO THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEEK TO TRY TO DO
THE WORK IN THE ‘BEIS HAMIKDOSH’; I HOPE THAT CLEARS IT UP

Thus G_D chose to deform this child's face because he had transgressed at some time in a past life.  i guess the same thing then is true for all of what we call bad.  G_D chooses to kill children.  G_D chose to make the extermination camps in europe and asia and africa.  i am sick to my stomach now.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: lorddavidone]
    #12254263 - 03/23/10 09:49 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The only time this becomes a problem is when one tries to say both that God is omnibenevolent, yet still commits seemingly evil acts.

In my view, nature is just as much about death as it is life. You can't have good without the bad, and I'm sure god knows this.

I don't believe that he is punishing children because they are wicked sinners though, it's just the way life works. The passage probably comes from humans trying to explain their sorrow at having disabled children.


--------------------


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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: lorddavidone]
    #12257851 - 03/23/10 07:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lorddavidone said:
i have a friend who is an ultra orthodox jew.  his son just gave borth to a child with a facial deformity.  and now i quote from the Bible, Leviticus:

Rules for Priests
16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.' " 24 So Moses told this to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites.

so i asked a high rabbi that i know:
So, my friend’s son had a baby with a cleft pallet. I had just read the following passage.  now I don’t know what to say.  My wife’s father also had a severe birth defect.  It seems to say that the defect that was caused by G_D and repulses G_D at the same time.  so what does one say to the father and grandparents?  Surely they are intimately aware of this passage and while the child gets to eat the holy food he is barred from the alter.  It is as if the creation of Hashem is unclean from birth.  I find this stuff very difficult to understand or accept.  And of course I am cross eyed from birth so I guess that leaves me out as well.  too bad as I had high hopes that I might be the chosen one.  I guess not.


and he said:
AS A STUDENT OF THE ‘KABALAH’ I AM SURE YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THIS BACKWARDS. IT IS THUSLY:
WHEN HASEM RELIZES THAT A PERSON IS NOT FIT TO SERVE HIM, EITHER BECAUSE HIS CURRENT TRANSGRESSIONS
OR PRIOR ‘LIFE’ TRANGRESSIONS HE MAKES HIM PHYSICALLY IMPAIRED SO THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEEK TO TRY TO DO
THE WORK IN THE ‘BEIS HAMIKDOSH’; I HOPE THAT CLEARS IT UP

Thus G_D chose to deform this child's face because he had transgressed at some time in a past life.  i guess the same thing then is true for all of what we call bad.  G_D chooses to kill children.  G_D chose to make the extermination camps in europe and asia and africa.  i am sick to my stomach now.





Lol...There are no true 'students of Kabala' just walking around the streets anymore...There is a truth to ancient religion I believe, but its not to be found in any common understanding...Any ideology including the bible or the Torah can be believed in with a lot of shcizophrenic results...

I find it interesting that "GOD" in the Torah Was called "The true God of fire"

William Blake also referred to Jehovah as "The one who dwells in flaming fire."


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #12258162 - 03/23/10 08:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

lorddavidone said:
i have a friend who is an ultra orthodox jew.  his son just gave borth to a child with a facial deformity.  and now i quote from the Bible, Leviticus:

Rules for Priests
16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.' " 24 So Moses told this to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites.

so i asked a high rabbi that i know:
So, my friend’s son had a baby with a cleft pallet. I had just read the following passage.  now I don’t know what to say.  My wife’s father also had a severe birth defect.  It seems to say that the defect that was caused by G_D and repulses G_D at the same time.  so what does one say to the father and grandparents?  Surely they are intimately aware of this passage and while the child gets to eat the holy food he is barred from the alter.  It is as if the creation of Hashem is unclean from birth.  I find this stuff very difficult to understand or accept.  And of course I am cross eyed from birth so I guess that leaves me out as well.  too bad as I had high hopes that I might be the chosen one.  I guess not.


and he said:
AS A STUDENT OF THE ‘KABALAH’ I AM SURE YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THIS BACKWARDS. IT IS THUSLY:
WHEN HASEM RELIZES THAT A PERSON IS NOT FIT TO SERVE HIM, EITHER BECAUSE HIS CURRENT TRANSGRESSIONS
OR PRIOR ‘LIFE’ TRANGRESSIONS HE MAKES HIM PHYSICALLY IMPAIRED SO THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEEK TO TRY TO DO
THE WORK IN THE ‘BEIS HAMIKDOSH’; I HOPE THAT CLEARS IT UP

Thus G_D chose to deform this child's face because he had transgressed at some time in a past life.  i guess the same thing then is true for all of what we call bad.  G_D chooses to kill children.  G_D chose to make the extermination camps in europe and asia and africa.  i am sick to my stomach now.





Lol...There are no true 'students of Kabala' just walking around the streets anymore...There is a truth to ancient religion I believe, but its not to be found in any common understanding...Any ideology including the bible or the Torah can be believed in with a lot of shcizophrenic results...

I find it interesting that "GOD" in the Torah Was called "The true God of fire"

William Blake also referred to Jehovah as "The one who dwells in flaming fire."





Well, people choose to ignore the obvious on a daily basis. What can you do...


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OfflineBoozerguyzer
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Registered: 02/07/10
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #12261139 - 03/24/10 09:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This is why I dislike the word "God."  We have the idea of Brahman, YHWH, this singularity that encompasses/IS all of existence.  Then we enter our realm of duality and suddenly "God" now has two sides, "good" and "evil."  The forces of each of those sides are characterized as "gods" again (like Mars, Venus, etc etc etc) and yet they are certainly not one and all.  So it makes you wonder which forces are responsible for things like this, especially considering the Torah was written in ancient Hebrew, where there are many different names that in the English translation all come out as "GOD" or "the LORD."

I think the universal consciousness of which we are all a part who I solely reserve the name of "God" for could not, by its very virtue, pass any judgment on its own creation, for it would only be to pass judgment on itself and say itself is not fit to worship...itself.  That doesn't make sense to me either.  Language is indeed quite the barrier, as fabricated as it is.  Those damn Babylonians and their tower!


--------------------
"There was a time when I could not find, the spirit of God BEYOND the mind.  In retrospect the intellect is blind, it makes me think that I'm, the reason for all that's mine, even this rhyme I'm inclined to believe is from me, instead of being received. This is how we're deceived.  How am I more than dust? when it's your love that animates us?  Forever I will trust. Your love is better than lust. You. Live. Forever In Us." KRS ONE


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: lorddavidone]
    #26365565 - 12/06/19 05:42 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Each soul is matched perfectly to its body. Those with deformities intended to have them and those tormented by the facts have a timeless propensity for torment which God new before he formed them in the womb.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: lorddavidone] * 1
    #26366159 - 12/07/19 01:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Is your friend wanting his son to become a priest for YHWH, in the tradition of Leviticus?  Because what's being discussed here is a ritual.

His son would not be eligible to perform in this ritual of food offerings.  Shouldn't be a problem.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: lorddavidone]
    #26367421 - 12/07/19 05:20 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lorddavidone said:
i have a friend who is an ultra orthodox jew.  his son just gave borth to a child with a facial deformity.  and now i quote from the Bible, Leviticus....



There's nothing to discuss here that isn't obviously dumb and idiotic. So, don't bother.
If someone thinks any religious text was authored by 'God' and is not the product of flawed human beings and their flawed beliefs.. it's also a dumb and dead conversation.

Let them believe what they want.. it brings them comfort and people who don't like challenging their brains/beliefs or norms wade in it.. Let them enjoy their comfort box. You nor any force will get them out of it until they truly want to.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: Hartford]
    #26367426 - 12/07/19 05:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Each soul is matched perfectly to its body. Those with deformities intended to have them and those tormented by the facts have a timeless propensity for torment which God new before he formed them in the womb.



LMFAO
:canthelpbutlaugh:

The human mind is an incredible work of art.

I'm guessing the nuke on Japan and subsequent radiological deformities was all God's plan including Chernobyl... He just queued up all of the 'souls' that were baddies and made them japanese or Russian at the time these incidents happened. I wonder what are you thoughts on colored people and he historic suffering they face for just their physical appearance.

Religion is a catch all for people who have checked out of thinking.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26367519 - 12/07/19 05:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The bomb wouldn't have been dropped if there wasn't an excess of "baddies"


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: Hartford]
    #26367531 - 12/07/19 06:01 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
The bomb wouldn't have been dropped if there wasn't an excess of "baddies"



Such a beautiful mind at work
:loldongs:


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: difficult discussion of Torah [Re: lorddavidone]
    #26367554 - 12/07/19 06:10 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Everything in the physical realm has a spiritual component in the hidden dimensions.


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