|
 Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
|
 Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within  [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2628696 - 05/02/04 05:40 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I think the repercussions of a couple pictures are causing far more harm than good. People are so stupid that one example can serve as propaganda.
And its not just Americans that see those pictures, it's everyone else you have to worry about.
--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
|
 ivi
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Edame]
#2628715 - 05/02/04 05:49 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
|
esin
cheesefondue
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 1,275
Loc: Lysergia
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2628791 - 05/02/04 06:30 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Teach your soldiers how to behave in the first place. Tell them what will be the consequences of such actions.
Than you won't have to worry about 'leaks'!
Truth is always beneficial IMHO.
Probably in America's next war (curious about who will be the next evil-doer lol), your soldiers will remember the scandal and think twice before they do something stupid like that...That's beneficial IMO.
peace 
|
Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: esin]
#2628834 - 05/02/04 06:43 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I don't think it is fair that a couple of fuckers can make the rest of the army look so bad. All it takes is a couple of screwups and you have a serious political problem. How many people will die in Iraq because of those pictures inciting hatred?
--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
|
Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,760
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2628876 - 05/02/04 06:57 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
That's why those soldiers have to be made examples of.
--------------------
This space for rent
|
Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2629088 - 05/02/04 07:51 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
That's why those soldiers have to be made examples of.
They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! There's no excuse for this, and these people are a total disgrace to the service! 
|
Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2629138 - 05/02/04 08:05 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
That's why those soldiers have to be made examples of.
That can be done within the military without putting those pictures on the cover of every Arab newspaper and European tabloid.
Unfortunately alot of people around the world will not believe the US or Britian when the government condemns such abuses. For them the images confirm what they already believe, that Americans are evil hypocrits out to get everyone. No matter what happens to the soldiers or the government's response those pictures will be proof that all American soldiers engage in that sort of thing. The damage is already done.
--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
|
Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2629141 - 05/02/04 08:06 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
That's why those soldiers have to be made examples of.
You said it. 
--------------------
|
Xochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2629258 - 05/02/04 08:26 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Now that I think about it, I have to question the ethics of leaking such photographs to the press. There already was an investigation and several court marshalls regarding the case happening when the pictures were released.
Right, because we all know how the brass never likes to cover scandals up. They always do the right thing. 
Journalism should check and balance the state by reporting the facts of the day so that citizens can all make informed decisions. Freedom of the press is an essential component of any healthy, free society. Free journalism should not yield to the state or its military just because these facts might cause a stir in public opinion. You do support the First Ammendment, correct? Or do you think the state should be able to have a chilling-effect on the media (or outright censorship) in order to make people smile about invasions, nation building, human-rights violations, and poor legislation?
Journalists should not be the lap-dogs of the state or military. Period.
--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.
-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon
|
Clean
the lense
Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Xochitl]
#2629459 - 05/02/04 09:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
what's interesting about this is that these soldiers weren't just doing this on a whim (although the simulated sex acts and genital shocking might be their own personal touch). they had orders from Military Intelligence to treat prisoners inhumanely.
proof
Friday April 30, 2004 "AP" -- After an investigation into problems at a Baghdad prison run by the U.S. military began, Maryland-based soldier Ivan ``Chip'' Frederick wrote an account of how the prison he helped run treated inmates. The writings were given to The Associated Press on Thursday by the soldier's uncle:
``I questioned some of the things that I saw ... such things as leaving inmates in their cell with no clothes or in females' underpants, handcuffing them to the door of their cell. I questioned this and the answer I got was, 'This is how military intelligence (MI) wants it done.' MI didn't want any of the inmates talking to each other. This is what happened when they were caught talking.''
``Prisoners were forced to live in damp, cool cells. MI has also instructed us to place a prisoner in an isolation cell with little or no clothes, no toilet or running water, no ventilation or window for as much as three days.''
``Prisoners have a mosque at the facility but are not allowed the privilege to go to it. Prisoners do not have a minister at the facility.''
``I have had training dealing with convicted felons of the U.S. I have never had any training dealing with POWs, civilian internees or detained persons.''
``Brigade should have had rules and regulations and the Geneva Convention in the establishment from the beginning.''
``A prisoner with a clearly visible mental condition was shot with nonlethal rounds for standing near the fence singing.''
Frederick also wrote e-mails to his sister, Marian, including one on Dec. 18:
``It is very interesting to watch them interrogate these people. I have made some really close friends. They usually don't allow others to watch them interrogate, but since they like the way I run the prison, they make an exception. ... We have had a very high rate with our style of getting them to break. They usually end up breaking within hours.''
|
uno
enthusiast
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 448
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2630738 - 05/03/04 03:26 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
Now that I think about it, I have to question the ethics of leaking such photographs to the press. There already was an investigation and several court marshalls regarding the case happening when the pictures were released.
Considering that justice was going to be done either way it seems grossly irresponsible to publish those pictures as it effectively slanders coalition forces, enrages arabs, and provides further propaganda for insurgents and left-wing Americans and Europeans. Absolutely nothing positive has come of the publication, rather the situation has been made alot worse.
It seems those in the press have no sense of responsibility for the effect their media has on world affairs.
They are the media, it is their duty to report. Hopefully this will have the effect of harsher sentences for those who partake in such activities. You want everyone to be blissfully ignorant of such shocking events?
--------------------
- uno
|
uno
enthusiast
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 448
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2630740 - 05/03/04 03:27 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
I don't think it is fair that a couple of fuckers can make the rest of the army look so bad. All it takes is a couple of screwups and you have a serious political problem. How many people will die in Iraq because of those pictures inciting hatred?
I'm pretty sure there is way more to worry about than a few pictures.
--------------------
- uno
|
germin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 399
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Clean]
#2630913 - 05/03/04 07:23 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
As of today, letters of admonition were sent to all officers involved. This might not sound like much, but their careers just ended. And this is before any possible court martialing. These people should be given the max sentance allowed by law. I truely think that, even if it wasn't our true motive, we should be there to help these people live a life free from this sort of treatment.
If it turns out that these people were members of the 'insurgency' that seems to enjoy executing civilians, I think we should try them under old Iraqi law. Which would include torture and other nasty various bad things.
Edited by germin8tionn8ion (05/03/04 08:53 PM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Clean]
#2631356 - 05/03/04 10:05 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
That guy's letters don't constitute proof of anything.
Look, this could end up being good public relations if:
1. No attempt at a coverup is made
2. A full and complete investigation is undertaken
3. The guilty parties are severely punished
The difference between us and them is that we don't condone this shit
--------------------
|
Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,469
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 6 hours, 53 minutes
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: zappaisgod]
#2634260 - 05/03/04 08:37 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Oh my god. Are these pictures real??? They're supposedly pictures of an Iraqi woman being raped and sodomized.
 
--------------------
--------------------------------
Mp3 of the month: The Dovers - The Third Eye
|
Clean
the lense
Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: zappaisgod]
#2634363 - 05/03/04 08:55 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
yes, god forbid that our own military intelligence would encourage such behavior, it's unthinkable!
well believe it, it's been happening.
do a google search for Major General Antonio Taguba and his 53 page report which outlines abuses and tortures carried out by soldiers at Abu Ghraib. those soldiers were urged by military intelligence and the CIA to "set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses."
|
d33p
Welcome to Violence
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Learyfan]
#2634451 - 05/03/04 09:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
That woman is DAMN white to be an iraqi arab. I mean shit, she is whiter than the guy fucking her.
--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.
bang bang
|
Jellric
altered statesman
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: esin]
#2635352 - 05/04/04 12:40 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Teach your soldiers how to behave in the first place. Tell them what will be the consequences of such actions.
The most successful military occupation I am aware of was by the United States after WWII in Japan. One difference was that General Douglas MacArthur ruled the country as a virtual Caesar. In other words, he wielded both supreme military AND political power in that country for a time. MacArthur was also familiar with and respectful of the traditions of that region- a key difference. Historically, America is like a sleeping giant that only becomes aware of the outside world when attacked. We wake up only to go to sleep again.
WWII era Japan was a country that was fanatically devoted that EVERY man, woman, and child fight to the death against the invading Americans! They viewed their emperor as a living God. So how the hell did MacArthur win them over?
For one thing, he had studied their culture for years and he had a plan. One standing order he had was that any American caught striking a Japanese citizen would serve a five year jail sentence. By doing this, and other things, he set a tone of respect that *created* respect. (BTW, he also wrote their constitution which has remained practically unchanged in the years since we handed over power).
Due partially to our geography and comparative youth as a nation, we tend to be ignorant or even intolerant of other cultures and it is not surprising when we have problems like we have today in this unwise war on Iraq. In these times we need both strong AND wise leadership more than ever. "Do it because Daddy said so!" won't cut it anymore for America.
Duty. Honor. Country.
Respect. Tolerance. Humility.
--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.
|
Azmodeus
Seeker
Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Learyfan]
#2636560 - 05/04/04 11:29 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Learyfan said:
lol, those pictures always make me laugh...
--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
Lest we forget. "
|
Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,760
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
|
Re: Troops accused of prisoner abuse (warning: images within [Re: Azmodeus]
#2636666 - 05/04/04 12:06 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
This space for rent
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale 
Olympus Myco Polypropylene Grow Bags 
Feminized Cannabis Seeds 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
Anonymous
Evolving
grib
Swami
lonestar2004
Prisoner#1