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Invisibleafoaf
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free speech on private property
    #2636526 - 05/04/04 01:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

isn't this sort of a non-issue?

I can tell you to not picket, protest and engage
in political speech on my own property, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/04/mormon.main.street.ap/index.html

Free speech? Not along Main Street
Salt Lake City judge upholds land swap in Mormon church plaza case


SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A federal judge on Monday upheld a land swap that permits the Mormon church to restrict speech on a block of Main Street that it purchased from Salt Lake City.

U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball dismissed a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union and others that said the deal violated the First Amendment by limiting speech and effectively endorsing the church.

The ACLU said it would appeal to the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.

Alan Sullivan, attorney for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said the church was gratified by the ruling. "The church wants the plaza to be an oasis of peace and beauty in the midst of our busy city, a place that everyone can enjoy," he said.

The city gave the church control of the plaza that it had purchased earlier in exchange for church-owned land elsewhere and more than $4 million.

Lee Siegel, a writer and one of the plaintiffs, said: "I did not expect a ruling in favor of ... fundamental constitutional right from any federal judge who's a product of Utah and its theocracy, which suffers from a severe and unhealthy allergy to dissent."


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2636556 - 05/04/04 01:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A federal judge on Monday upheld a land swap that permits the Mormon church to restrict speech on a block of Main Street that it purchased from Salt Lake City.

Alan Sullivan, attorney for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said the church was gratified by the ruling. "The church wants the plaza to be an oasis of peace and beauty in the midst of our busy city, a place that everyone can enjoy," he said.

The city gave the church control of the plaza that it had purchased earlier in exchange for church-owned land elsewhere and more than $4 million.

Lee Siegel, a writer and one of the plaintiffs, said: "I did not expect a ruling in favor of ... fundamental constitutional right from any federal judge who's a product of Utah and its theocracy, which suffers from a severe and unhealthy allergy to dissent."




ACLU for the most part, and it's sad because I'm a member, are a bunch of whining weenies. They own the friggin land! geez


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OfflinePhred
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2636945 - 05/04/04 03:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have to agree that you nailed this one, afoaf.

If the city sold a block of street to someone, then that block is now indeed private property and no longer city property.

Pretty clear cut case, but as for why the ACLU would dispute it, what have they got to lose? There have been some pretty bizarre rulings coming from US courts in recent times. Maybe they thought the judge wouldn't use common sense. Wouldn't be the first time.

pinky


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2637141 - 05/04/04 04:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

> The church wants the plaza to be an oasis of peace and beauty in the midst of our busy city, a place that everyone can enjoy

It may be private property, but they are intending for it to be used as a public place. If a privately owned, public shopping mall can limit free speech, then the church should be able to as well... but, if a privately owned, public shopping mall cannot limit free speech, then the chuch should also not be able to.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2637195 - 05/04/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with the rights of property owners... The only thing I have a problem with is the city selling a main street block to a church. More particularly the precedent it sets.

I wouldn't want to walk down main street in my city and hit a block that has been bought by Starbucks... "Discard your non-starbucks beverage at once or face arrest and a trespassing charge!" .... hehe not to be alarmist, but you never know which direction things can spiral towards...

I'd at least hope that the selling of public property to a private party is required to have majority public support(which it undoubtedly did in SLC.....Anyone catch the soutpark with Joseph Smith?)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2637236 - 05/04/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Next thing you know, they will be selling all the city's sidewalks to the Mormon Mafia.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2637296 - 05/04/04 04:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

As things stand now, you're right. I happen to follow the belief that land is not truly private property(though improvements on the land are) because it is not created by human effort. However, as long as we're being consistent with our current laws, then you're absolutely right. It's ridiculous.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2637379 - 05/04/04 05:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Next thing you know, they will be selling all the city's sidewalks to the Mormon Mafia.




In south florida not to long ago a private company bought a piece of road along a residential suburb. They then tried to charge the owners of the houses to use the road right infront of their house. It was pretty funny although i think a court ruled it was wrong.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: d33p]
    #2637406 - 05/04/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That is fucktarded.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2637416 - 05/04/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That is Florida.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2637431 - 05/04/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Can we just nuke Florida? Nothing good ever comes out of Florida other than oranges. Just look at Creed, the Backstreet Boys, and the 2000 election if you need proof that Florida sucks.


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Offlined33p
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: silversoul7]
    #2637481 - 05/04/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Can we just nuke Florida? Nothing good ever comes out of Florida other than oranges. Just look at Creed, the Backstreet Boys, and the 2000 election if you need proof that Florida sucks.




A large portion of Blow arrives in Florida and is then distributed throughout the country. Gotta like that. Also Miami Beach sports some of the hottest women in the usa.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: silversoul7]
    #2637483 - 05/04/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We should have put Israel there.


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Offlined33p
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2637489 - 05/04/04 05:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Baby im not positive but i believe there are more jews in Florida then in all of Judea.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: d33p]
    #2637502 - 05/04/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Another good reason to put the rest of them there.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: silversoul7]
    #2637723 - 05/04/04 06:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Can we just nuke Florida? Nothing good ever comes out of Florida other than oranges. Just look at Creed, the Backstreet Boys, and the 2000 election if you need proof that Florida sucks.




Excuse me. What about the best places to pick Psilocybe Cubensis mushooms along with the perfect climate for nearly year round fruiting?

Helloooo!!!!


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2638142 - 05/04/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

what, do you think this is a mushroom board or something?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: afoaf]
    #2638152 - 05/04/04 08:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
what, do you think this is a mushroom board or something?



If it quacks like a duck....


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlined33p
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: d33p]
    #2638480 - 05/04/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
In south florida not to long ago a private company bought a piece of road along a residential suburb. They then tried to charge the owners of the houses to use the road right infront of their house. It was pretty funny although i think a court ruled it was wrong.




Best part of it was that the name of the company was or was almost exactly "Whatsdamaterwitu Inc."


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: free speech on private property [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2638738 - 05/04/04 10:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FrankieJustTrypt said:
I agree with the rights of property owners... The only thing I have a problem with is the city selling a main street block to a church. More particularly the precedent it sets.




The city also bought some land from the church. Is that good or bad?
Quote:


I'd at least hope that the selling of public property to a private party is required to have majority public support(which it undoubtedly did in SLC.....Anyone catch the soutpark with Joseph Smith?)



Hah, a very funny southpark indeed. I like the one with the goo-backs.
"Dey took arr jerbs"


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