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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26364949 - 12/06/19 12:41 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
They don't have to be so greedy about it. Why can't they just make a few mill or bill instead of maximizing incredibly high profits? We can't make money/people have morals and that's the problem. If they are developing these drugs to help people why don't they actually help by making it affordable to the planet? Greedy greedy fucks!



Like I said. with competition, prices go down and quality goes up. hold your horses. brand new revolutionary things that have only been around for a generation are goona cost some money. we basically work miracles these days with modern medicine. its goona cost some money. it takes alot of research and skilled labour. our great geandparts just died when something was wrong usually. we completed step ome of improving medicine. now costs coming down is the next step but it costs alot to produce revolutionary things.

its like if we developed a space ship that could move faster than the speed of light and people were like "I cant afford one! so greedy!" hang on man. If you great grandparents saw that they wouldnt even beleive it. we just finally became able to do this amazing thing. its being worked on.

What medicines have you developed? how much do you charge? how much does it cost you to produce the medicine? what disease does it cure/treat?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26364966 - 12/06/19 12:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Healthcare is not a free market and free market principles do not apply. A free market requires participants can voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. Sick people are not free to voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. This is how you get to charge $80,000 to treat a disease with pills that cost $5 to make.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Registered: 01/11/15
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods] * 1
    #26364976 - 12/06/19 12:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Healthcare is not a free market and free market principles do not apply. A free market requires participants can voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. Sick people are not free to voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. This is how you get to charge $80,000 to treat a disease with pills that cost $5 to make.



nobody is acctually forcing them to do anything. its nature thats creating the nessecity. just like with food. are you saying we should have bread lines because people cant live without food?

Production cost is a small peice of the puzzle. The research that came before the drug could be produced, for example, is a way bigger cost.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (12/06/19 12:50 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26364981 - 12/06/19 12:52 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
They don't have to be so greedy about it. Why can't they just make a few mill or bill instead of maximizing incredibly high profits? We can't make money/people have morals and that's the problem. If they are developing these drugs to help people why don't they actually help by making it affordable to the planet? Greedy greedy fucks!



Like I said. with competition, prices go down and quality goes up. hold your horses. brand new revolutionary things that have only been around for a generation are goona cost some money. we basically work miracles these days with modern medicine. its goona cost some money. it takes alot of research and skilled labour. our great geandparts just died when something was wrong usually. we completed step ome of improving medicine. now costs coming down is the next step but it costs alot to produce revolutionary things.

its like if we developed a space ship that could move faster than the speed of light and people were like "I cant afford one! so greedy!" hang on man. If you great grandparents saw that they wouldnt even beleive it. we just finally became able to do this amazing thing. its being worked on.

What medicines have you developed? how much do you charge? how much does it cost you to produce the medicine? what disease does it cure/treat?




The government paid for the research that lead to the development of Truvada which is sold by Gilead for $1100 per month:

Most if not all basic medical research is funded by government. Private industry takes this basic research and markets it as medicine. It’s a fucking scam.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: feldman114]
    #26364984 - 12/06/19 12:52 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
They don't have to be so greedy about it. Why can't they just make a few mill or bill instead of maximizing incredibly high profits? We can't make money/people have morals and that's the problem. If they are developing these drugs to help people why don't they actually help by making it affordable to the planet? Greedy greedy fucks!



Good point. My first job in my career was working for Roche - a HUGE pharmaceutical company (as they all are) - and so I have some intimate knowledge of the kind of money these companies turn over (it's excessive, and disgusting, and predatory, IMO).

Now one must bear in mind that given that most (western) countries over goverment funded healthcare, the money these companies are making is clearly NOT driven by private health insurance companies.


Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
I'm not an American citizen.

most new medications are developed in the private sector still to this day.



Ergo, of course new medications are developed in the private sector. The money still (mostly) came from governments/taxes though.

And whilst you may not be an American citizen, I've never seen anyone else here who metaphorically sucks the cock of the American Dream like you do. Quite why you would, viewing it from Canada, is absolutely beyond me.


Quote:

feldman114 said:
The only way to break the cycle is to realize that there is no difference between growing as an individual and as a society. The reason why this seems somewhat vague to us is our current state of affairs - the current age of individualism.

P.P.S. Sorry for the spelling and formatting. I’m also passing time in a cubicle😔 trying to hide my phone from the cameras.



LOL. No sweat man. I enjoy your input very much. I also know that cubicle hell.

Seems we've hit a bit of a wall though; I mean, if a guy who dedicated his life to trying to break us out of individualism had no success, I wonder what potential there is for us nattering on a drug forum?

It seems you equate individualism with the 'I'm special' narrative - which I entirely disagree with also - however I do agree that in an ideal world we'd work for ourselves and our species in equal measure.

The problem is, the world is just so, so far from ideal isn't it?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26364990 - 12/06/19 12:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

koods said:
Healthcare is not a free market and free market principles do not apply. A free market requires participants can voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. Sick people are not free to voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. This is how you get to charge $80,000 to treat a disease with pills that cost $5 to make.



nobody is acctually forcing them to do anything. its nature thats creating the nessecity. just like with food. are you saying we should have bread lines because people cant live without food?

Production cost is a small peice of the puzzle. The research that came before the drug could be produced, for example, is a way bigger cost.




Yes and the research that came before the drug is almost entirely government funded. Industry does not invest in research that may or may not produce results. They take the research done by universities paid for with government grants that is promising and they produce a drug.

You have a lot of opinions for someone who has no clue what they are talking about


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/06/19 12:56 PM)


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 19 hours, 17 minutes
Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
    #26364991 - 12/06/19 12:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
They don't have to be so greedy about it. Why can't they just make a few mill or bill instead of maximizing incredibly high profits? We can't make money/people have morals and that's the problem. If they are developing these drugs to help people why don't they actually help by making it affordable to the planet? Greedy greedy fucks!



Like I said. with competition, prices go down and quality goes up. hold your horses. brand new revolutionary things that have only been around for a generation are goona cost some money. we basically work miracles these days with modern medicine. its goona cost some money. it takes alot of research and skilled labour. our great geandparts just died when something was wrong usually. we completed step ome of improving medicine. now costs coming down is the next step but it costs alot to produce revolutionary things.

its like if we developed a space ship that could move faster than the speed of light and people were like "I cant afford one! so greedy!" hang on man. If you great grandparents saw that they wouldnt even beleive it. we just finally became able to do this amazing thing. its being worked on.

What medicines have you developed? how much do you charge? how much does it cost you to produce the medicine? what disease does it cure/treat?




The government paid for the research that lead to the development of Truvada which is sold by Gilead for $1100 per month:

Most if not all basic medical research is funded by government. Private industry takes this basic research and markets it as medicine. It’s a fucking scam.



no you misunderstand. the link I posted said mew drug DISCOVERIES. the medecines are discovered not merely distributed by private companies.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 19 hours, 17 minutes
Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
    #26364992 - 12/06/19 12:56 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

koods said:
Healthcare is not a free market and free market principles do not apply. A free market requires participants can voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. Sick people are not free to voluntarily enter and exit the marketplace. This is how you get to charge $80,000 to treat a disease with pills that cost $5 to make.



nobody is acctually forcing them to do anything. its nature thats creating the nessecity. just like with food. are you saying we should have bread lines because people cant live without food?

Production cost is a small peice of the puzzle. The research that came before the drug could be produced, for example, is a way bigger cost.




Yes and the research that came before the drug is almost entirely government funded. Industry does not invest in research that may or may not produce results. They take the research done by universities paid for with government grants that is promising and they produce a drug.



look at the link I posted again.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26364994 - 12/06/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Google “what do economists economize”. It’s a great paper on why some things should NEVER be bought/sold in a market; e.g. organs, children, etc.

Btw, drugs aren’t as expensive as ppl here tend to think. European countries get American drugs for less $$. It’s about bulk. Each American is coping dime bags, while European people all chip in and buy a pound to split.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26365004 - 12/06/19 01:01 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You don’t understand what you’re reading unfortunately.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
    #26365007 - 12/06/19 01:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

But that IS the gist of it. I mean the price differential of prescriptions


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26365008 - 12/06/19 01:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Google “what do economists economize”. It’s a great paper on why some things should NEVER be bought/sold in a market; e.g. organs, children, etc.

Btw, drugs aren’t as expensive as ppl here tend to think. European countries get American drugs for less $$. It’s about bulk. Each American is coping dime bags, while European people all chip in and buy a pound to split.




In America drugs are expensive because we act like medicine is a free market and competition will drive down prices :lol:

The rest of the world has realized that medicine is an inelastic market and that demand is not dependent on price.

It’s pretty simple. If have have something that will save your life I can charge as much as I want. The sick consumer has almost no power. The whole idea that competition and the free market can control healthcare costs is a right wing lie


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/06/19 01:11 PM)


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
    #26365023 - 12/06/19 01:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

"In some cases, research conducted by NIH or other Public-sector research institutions (PSRIs) provide the “foundation for the pharmaceutical industry’s discovery of an entirely new class of drugs.” Nevertheless, pharmaceutical companies and industry still take on the heavy burden of carrying out and paying for the applied research phase."

Thats at like the top of the article man. Come on.

so as I said, the research is a much higher cost than the cost of production.

of course something that is researched and made record will eventually help someone. of course the government isnt going to be absolutely 100% useless. they are going to find some stuff out surely. it would be pretty ridiculous if they're research gave us absolutely nothing.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26365034 - 12/06/19 01:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Again you don’t understand what you’re reading


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
    #26365053 - 12/06/19 01:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Again you don’t understand what you’re reading



Again you're failing to articulate what exactly I dont understand.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26365059 - 12/06/19 01:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Industry does not invest in basic research. They take proven, or at the least promising - concepts and develop them. They don’t do they truly expensive and time consuming fundamental research that often is a dead end. Pharmaceutical companies already know the general idea of what compounds should be explored because someone else with a government salary or grant figured it out and published their research.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/06/19 01:28 PM)


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InvisibleBoomer The Great
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods] * 1
    #26365061 - 12/06/19 01:20 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

He doesn't understand anything he is talking about. You are talking to a brick wall.

He sounds :underage:


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
    #26365073 - 12/06/19 01:27 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Industry does not invest in basic research. They take proven concepts and develop them.



well if there is already credible informarion available of course it will make sense to use that and go on from there.

thats not to say that private companies never do any basic research or are incapeable of doing basic research. its just that when basic research is done, it doesnt make sense to do it all over again.

so if the government is going to insist on doing research private compamies arent going to ignore it. they will obviously use the resources available to them.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Boomer The Great]
    #26365078 - 12/06/19 01:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Boomer The Great said:
He doesn't understand anything he is talking about. You are talking to a brick wall.

He sounds :underage:



I'm stating and clarifying my position openly. you ignore my questions and answers when you feel like it then pop into new conversations and insult me whehn you want. why dont you go back to the Joe Biden thread and address my points if you're so mature and competant?


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InvisibleBoomer The Great
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Posts: 5,504
Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26365081 - 12/06/19 01:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Nah that time has past.....I'm coming to take your shit.....you are with the billionaires now. 


:angrymob:


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