Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9  [ show all ]
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Jordan Peterson * 3
    #26364727 - 12/06/19 10:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Is there anyone out there that knows him and his work that doesn't think that the guy is the absolute epiphany of a modern philosopher? Of someone who clearly sees our current state and condition, and has some real, practical, tangible solutions to dealing with the difficulties of it?

And if you don't know him and his work, I couldn't suggest any more highly than to become acquainted with it. It's incredibly accessible and easy to digest, IME.

Would love to share anything he's produced in this thread; specifically if it touched you. Videos/quotes/etc.

I'll start:

Quote:

If you are suffering—well, that’s the norm. People are limited and life is tragic. If your suffering is unbearable, however, and you are starting to become corrupted, here’s something to think about.

Consider your circumstances. Start small. Have you taken full advantage of the opportunities offered to you? Are you working hard on your career, or even your job, or are you letting bitterness and resentment hold you back and drag you down? Have you made peace with your brother? Are you treating your spouse and your children with dignity and respect? Do you have habits that are destroying your health and well-being? Are you truly shouldering your responsibilities? Have you said what you need to say to your friends and family members? Are there things that you could do, that you know you could do, that would make things around you better?

Have you cleaned up your life?

If the answer is no, here’s something to try: Start to stop doing what you know to be wrong. Start stopping today. Don’t waste time questioning how you know that what you’re doing is wrong, if you are certain that it is. Inopportune questioning can confuse, without enlightening, as well as deflecting you from action. You can know that something is wrong or right without knowing why. Your entire Being can tell you something that you can neither explain nor articulate. Every person is too complex to know themselves completely, and we all contain wisdom that we cannot comprehend.

So, simply stop, when you apprehend, however dimly, that you should stop. Stop acting in that particular, despicable manner. Stop saying those things that make you weak and ashamed. Say only those things that make you strong. Do only those things that you could speak of with honour.

You can use your own standards of judgment. You can rely on yourself for guidance. You don’t have to adhere to some external, arbitrary code of behaviour (although you should not overlook the guidelines of your culture. Life is short, and you don’t have time to figure everything out on your own. The wisdom of the past was hard-earned, and your dead ancestors may have something useful to tell you).

Don’t blame capitalism, the radical left, or the iniquity of your enemies. Don’t reorganize the state until you have ordered your own experience. Have some humility. If you cannot bring peace to your household, how dare you try to rule a city? Let your own soul guide you. Watch what happens over the days and weeks. When you are at work you will begin to say what you really think. You will start to tell your wife, or your husband, or your children, or your parents, what you really want and need. When you know that you have left something undone, you will act to correct the omission. Your head will start to clear up, as you stop filling it with lies. Your experience will improve, as you stop distorting it with inauthentic actions. You will then begin to discover new, more subtle things that you are doing wrong. Stop doing those, too. After some months and years of diligent effort, your life will become simpler and less complicated. Your judgment will improve. You will untangle your past. You will become stronger and less bitter. You will move more confidently into the future. You will stop making your life unnecessarily difficult. You will then be left with the inevitable bare tragedies of life, but they will no longer be compounded with bitterness and deceit.

Perhaps you will discover that your now less-corrupted soul, much stronger than it might otherwise have been, is now able to bear those remaining, necessary, minimal, inescapable tragedies. Perhaps you will even learn to encounter them so that they stay tragic—merely tragic—instead of degenerating into outright hellishness. Maybe your anxiety, and hopelessness, and resentment, and anger—however murderous, initially—will recede. Perhaps your uncorrupted soul will then see its existence as a genuine good, as something to celebrate, even in the face of your own vulnerability. Perhaps you will become an ever-more-powerful force for peace and whatever is good.

Perhaps you will then see that if all people did this, in their own lives, the world might stop being an evil place. After that, with continued effort, perhaps it could even stop being a tragic place. Who knows what existence might be like if we all decided to strive for the best? Who knows what eternal heavens might be established by our spirits, purified by truth, aiming skyward, right here on the fallen Earth?




--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #26364736 - 12/06/19 10:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It’s a cult dude


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26364737 - 12/06/19 10:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He has good things to say about raising yourself from your bootstraps n everything but whenever hes talking about truth its so vague seems like hes intentionally trying to muttle things which he has to do of course otherwise everything else he says means very little. I think theres something to it tho and I also think theres something to sam harris' absolute befuddlement at wtf hes talking about


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26364738 - 12/06/19 10:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Wasn't a fan of his book at all for some reason, his writing style is a little dry and preachy. Could've been 1/3 of the page count and gotten the same message across. I don't think I finished it.

I like a lot of what I've heard from him though, and his interview with Cathy Newman is legendary, probably the best live dismantling of a biased attack dog journalist I've ever seen.

This is probably my favorite clip from him, and I've shared it with quite a few people. Especially starting 7 minutes in, it hit home with me pretty hard:



Edited by feevers (12/06/19 10:58 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSocrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
Last seen: 17 days, 7 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26364788 - 12/06/19 11:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I've been a fan of his for quite a while but I do agree that there are some "culty" aspects to the culture around him (obviously not his fault if people deify him, he never asked for that).

I love his talks but agree with feevers that his writing is a bit preachy (his lectures and interviews don't feel that way).

But, from the years of taking in his interviews, lectures, and books, it seems it all boils to a single message (in terms of a message of "self-help" or "what to do". He has a vast array of knowledge on psychology, psychotherapy, biblical archetypes, Carl Jung, and so forth that is worth discovering).

His message, said a billion ways is, something akin to,

Fix yourself before you try to fix the world

I think it is an important message and has really helped me out. It is an obvious message but he presents it in an incredibly articulate and fascinating way.

I think the closer a person is to the center (spiritually, politically, emotionally etc) the less "profound" his message seems to be (albeit still helpful and worth a listen).


--------------------


Edited by Socrateshroom (12/06/19 11:16 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Socrateshroom] * 2
    #26364794 - 12/06/19 11:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He’s essentially a Christian minister who tones down the religion so much you don’t even realize you’re getting infused with biblical teachings.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCountHTML
Stranger
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 557
Loc: Maine
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] * 1
    #26364856 - 12/06/19 11:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He’s a charismatic speaker and pretty much articulates traditional Western values of individualism and the pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps ethos that has been an engine of our culture for so long. He seems to assume that this is a universal feature of some human mythological meta story. I totally agree with him on archetypes and meta stories but think he worships existing hierarchies and power structures a bit too much.

He once spent two hours arguing with Sam Harris about basic epistemology, which was painful to listen to and quite frankly Sam was correct.

Overall I like listening to him but I think he is taken a bit too seriously overall. A lot of his message is his opinion about how one should live, but many act as if he’s channeling some kind of transcendent truth. I think that the flak and vitriol he’s generated on part of the media has boosted his popularity immensely because for many people, there is profundity in what he says and it makes journalists like Newman look like an ass. All the while it creates a frame where Peterson is a hero and “there must be something to what he’s saying if the left and the media hate him so much.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CountHTML] * 1
    #26364891 - 12/06/19 12:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He is a charismatic speaker and that interview is epic. On a personal level he is deeply unhappy and quite heavily medicated on anti-depressants and whatnot.

To me that makes it kinda: "Do as I say, not as I do"


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tripsurfer] * 1
    #26364923 - 12/06/19 12:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He's fond of lobsters


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 55 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper] * 5
    #26364940 - 12/06/19 12:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Peterson sucks, and I have heard a number of debates where he got owned. The rest of his debates are with news anchors and other people that don't stand a chance, and that doesn't make him a good speaker, it means he's a big fish in a little pond. Most of what he talks about has been addressed by academically superior philosophers or experts of other disciplines. He often uses incomplete models for areas outside his experience and that results in incorrect and incomplete analysis. The list goes on...

Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is impossible, because your boot straps are below your hands. That ideology is a myth.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera] * 3
    #26364946 - 12/06/19 12:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He sounds like the offspring of Kermit the frog and Don Cherry


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26364969 - 12/06/19 12:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, Peterson isn't nearly the saviour to young men all the hype makes him out to be.

He has some decent common sense advice, but beyond that there isn't a lot of truth in his overall philosophy to life's problems as it relates to society at large.

His ideas seem great at a casual glance because its the same kind of short sited self help that has just been repackaged over and over and over.. its really not any different from thousands of other self help programs that you can get on amazon.com


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] * 2
    #26364972 - 12/06/19 12:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don’t know much about Peterson, but I encounter his fans online from time to time.  As far as I can tell, he’s just some guy who tells neckbeards to clean their room, and they’re like, “oh wow, yeah, my mom has told me this 50,000 times but hearing from a dude who owns libtards really makes it sink in!”  I mean, good for him if he’s helping people live better lives or whatever, but most of his acolytes seem like dumbasses.  No disrespect meant to anyone in this thread, you guys are great haha.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera]
    #26364995 - 12/06/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Most of what he talks about has been addressed by academically superior philosophers or experts of other disciplines.



Perhaps you, or others that are chiming in, could offer some of these superior alternatives?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26365064 - 12/06/19 01:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He’s just another self help guru with cultlike folliwers


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/06/19 01:22 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCountHTML
Stranger
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 557
Loc: Maine
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26365092 - 12/06/19 01:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Id argue he's not only unhappy, but angry.

I'm essentially neutral on Peterson and I know he's helped a lot of people which is objectively a good thing.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CountHTML] * 2
    #26365107 - 12/06/19 01:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Here are a few vids which provide solid critiques of JP while also not completely slamming him, if you are actually interested in critiques against his work and what he presents himself as.

I could type all this out, but these already make the points

Somewhere To Belong: Jordan Peterson + Alienation | Very Important Docs
Cultivated Identity 2 (Karl Marx's Theory of Alienation & Jordan Peterson)




What Jordan B. Peterson is Doing




Why it Matters Jordan Peterson is in Rehab



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26365214 - 12/06/19 02:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I watched all of his episodes with Joe Rogan.

He's big in Canada given that he's from here.

I like him.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal]
    #26365224 - 12/06/19 02:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Of course you do


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26365451 - 12/06/19 04:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Why wouldn't I?

It's great philosophical entertainment.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26365473 - 12/06/19 04:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Is there anyone out there that knows him and his work that doesn't think that the guy is the absolute epiphany of a modern philosopher? Of someone who clearly sees our current state and condition, and has some real, practical, tangible solutions to dealing with the difficulties of it?
...




Preferred Joseph Campbell's work
but appreciate that Peterson is basically attempting to follow in his footsteps
think Maps of Meaning and his exploration of symbols and conciousness through history is really interesting

unfortunately, it does not adapt cleanly to modern political issues because he is taking an amalgamation of past beliefs
rather than assembling that into a real meaningful way to engage with the modern world (which, in my opinion, Joseph Campbell did manage)
on the surface his philosophy seems highly adaptable due to the variation of sources
but in terms of engaging with real world issues, have not found any of these practical and tangible solutions to modern problems you argue for
:shrug:

really wish he would get back to a focus on what he is good at
rather than what gets him mainstream media attention
but academics inevitably bow down to the all mighty dollar over their passion for information


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebrk
Unless...
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 10,210
Loc: SA Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal]
    #26365497 - 12/06/19 05:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He has such a distinct tone, and way of speaking that whenever I read a quote from him, it's as if his voice is projected into my head.... Which would be fine if his voice wasn't so fucking annoying.

He seems like a reasonable guy. In small doses though.


--------------------
"To the young it gives a vision of the dead and gone. While the old receive a passion to survive,
and the pattern picks the pockets of the palindrome, before the oscillating rhythm takes to flight..." - Rishloo



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26365502 - 12/06/19 05:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
but academics inevitably bow down to the all mighty dollar over their passion for information




yeah.. i'm guessing most of you haven't seen his Pokemon PC game where he sold packs of stickers to his fanboys in a very powerful crusade against PC culture :lmafo:







Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26365517 - 12/06/19 05:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
but academics inevitably bow down to the all mighty dollar over their passion for information




yeah.. i'm guessing most of you haven't seen his Pokemon PC game where he sold packs of stickers to his fanboys in a very powerful crusade against PC culture :lmafo:




...





Totally legit, if having seen one of these anywhere prior to your post
would have immediately assumed it to be from the video game arguments of Console vs. PC gaming







of course, this also shows some issue with acronyms
like when people complain that the NPCs are too PC

when, in an NPC/PC dichotomy
PC stands for Player Character

Player Character
Personal Computer
Politically Correct


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26365523 - 12/06/19 05:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:

of course, this also shows some issue with acronyms
like when people complain that the NPCs are too PC





:rofl2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper] * 2
    #26365536 - 12/06/19 05:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I see, both here, and in the little research I did after hearing all these criticisms about him, that a lot of people are attacking the person whilst none really seem to address his work and his message.

I find that odd. It reminds me of something I said earlier today, in a different thread:

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Every little thing seems to be a problem for someone these days, regardless of how noble its original intention may be.



I really can't see any proper justification for the vitriol this guy seems to draw his way. Perhaps I'm just not looking at him as a person and considering his words only, but......?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26365554 - 12/06/19 05:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He thinks men are entitled to sex

He’s essentially the closest thing incels have to a god since the real god fucked them over when he made them ugly


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/06/19 05:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Socrateshroom] * 2
    #26365560 - 12/06/19 05:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:

His message, said a billion ways is, something akin to,

Fix yourself before you try to fix the world




It's hard to argue with such wisdom, in a time when most people blame their problems and unhappiness on things outside of themselves. The perspective that we are our own worst enemy has been preached by a myriad of people during the course of human history, such as the ancient Greek philosophers. It's a pretty simple idea - that we disturb ourselves in many ways and create much of the emotional distress we experience. Most people prefer to point the finger of blame than look at themselves honestly. We should call this period in human history "The Age of Victimhood".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26365562 - 12/06/19 05:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
He thinks men are entitled to sex



I've read a lot of things he's written and listened to a lot of what he's said and I've never come across anything remotely close to that.

I'm baffled.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26365567 - 12/06/19 05:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
We should call this period in human history "The Age of Victimhood".



LOL. Brilliant RJ.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26365645 - 12/06/19 06:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:

Every little thing seems to be a problem for someone these days . . .


 

The frequency and intensity of people's emotional fragility continues to skyrocket. Jonathan Haidt (well respected social psychologist) has presented some fascinating ideas about this current explosion of pathological sensitivity. He has some specific theories about how and why the human mind began to change 10 years ago, and what is at the root of this epidemic of outrage and hyper-sensitivity.     

We have the ability to engage in emotional intelligence. We can manage even the most difficult emotions and the most complex internal states. But right now we are going backwards. Very fast. We are de-evolving.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26365651 - 12/06/19 06:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I actually think that is one of the worst aspects of the Trump presidency. The leader of the free world spends half his day whining about how he’s being treated. People look st this behavior and think it’s OK.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] * 2
    #26365656 - 12/06/19 06:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I hardly watch him anymore. I really like alot of his lectures and have a positive view of him but alot of his discussions can be kinda cringe. his maneurisms can be kind of off putting especially after he got big. and hes often right but sometimes focusing on the wrong point in my opinion. he lets himself get bogged down trying to explain everything and ends up letting other people frame the argument sometimes which Is probably part of the reason he has been the center of so much outrage. sometimes he handles himself perfectly though like with cathy newman. But I prefer his lectures to his debates even though he does have a good record with those too.

Quote:

koods said:
He thinks men are entitled to sex

He’s essentially the closest thing incels have to a god since the real god fucked them over when he made them ugly



he says the opposite  one of his main messages is that its your responsibility to make things better. if things arent going your way you're doing something wrong or you're aiming at the wrong thing.

I remember when MGTOW was a thing (well lets be honest it was never really a thing. just a few frustrated ugly neckbeards) and he said they were weasels lol. Which is the part of his message that I think is most important. dont be a victim and start trying to make things better.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (12/06/19 06:45 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] * 2
    #26365672 - 12/06/19 06:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:

He thinks men are entitled to sex




If a brilliant mathematician visits hookers, hates Asians, and believes in UFO's, do you deny their mathematical conclusions? If Pythagoras had a large harem of 10 year old boys, should that fact play any part of evaluating the accuracy of his theorem?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26365726 - 12/06/19 06:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It worked for Michael Jackson.:shrug:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26365760 - 12/06/19 07:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
...
Quote:

koods said:
He thinks men are entitled to sex

He’s essentially the closest thing incels have to a god since the real god fucked them over when he made them ugly



he says the opposite  one of his main messages is that its your responsibility to make things better. if things arent going your way you're doing something wrong or you're aiming at the wrong thing.

I remember when MGTOW was a thing (well lets be honest it was never really a thing. just a few frustrated ugly neckbeards) and he said they were weasels lol. Which is the part of his message that I think is most important. dont be a victim and start trying to make things better.




Also recall him discussing sexual autonomy with Theryn Meyer
and talking about one of the (theoretical) issues in Aldous Huxley's work on Island
where essentially the society was ordered in such a way that individuals were obligated to sexually engage with anyone who wanted to sexually engage with them

it may still be on his channel, Theryn ended up deleting hers when it started getting wild with flames against her being trans and supporting nonbinary individuals


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26365791 - 12/06/19 07:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Who is this guy? And why is he famous?


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Cosmic_Flame] * 1
    #26365825 - 12/06/19 07:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He is a psychology professor and he initially got widespread fame for recording some youtube videos opposing this law that he said introduced compelled speech for trans pronouns.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesh4d0ws
LSx
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26365827 - 12/06/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
He sounds like the offspring of Kermit the frog and Don Cherry




:canthelpbutlaugh:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechinaman9
Secret Asian Man
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 63
Loc: 'Murica
Last seen: 17 hours, 2 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: sh4d0ws] * 1
    #26365849 - 12/06/19 08:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

He's an asshat.


--------------------
:chinaman:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26366120 - 12/07/19 12:46 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
If a brilliant mathematician visits hookers, hates Asians, and believes in UFO's, do you deny their mathematical conclusions? If Pythagoras had a large harem of 10 year old boys, should that fact play any part of evaluating the accuracy of his theorem?



This is PRECISELY my point after - just today - realising the vitriol people have for this person. Jesus Christ there are some fucking bastards out there - and not one of us - comes without red flags by our (honest) name.

For fucks sake can we not separate a human - who suffers like all the rest of us - from one who offers GOOD lessons from one who offers BAD lessons?????

If you don't know Marcus Auralias' teachings - and any of you here who feel you're fit to judge Peterson, should - then you'll know that philosophers, be they 20 or 200 or 2000 years apart, basically teach us the same thing; that philosophy is just spelling out a truth we all know deep down when we read/see/hear it. The human condition is the human condition, and our cultural programming makes us focus on the differences, not the similarities. We are FAR, FAR, FAR, more similar than the vast majority of us (especially the 'special' ones) can accept.

The people who seem to disagree with him - IMO - are the 'I'm a special snowflake' types we've discussed in other threads.

Somebody prove me wrong, FFS.,


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26366145 - 12/07/19 01:27 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Socrateshroom said:

His message, said a billion ways is, something akin to,

Fix yourself before you try to fix the world




It's hard to argue with such wisdom, in a time when most people blame their problems and unhappiness on things outside of themselves. The perspective that we are our own worst enemy has been preached by a myriad of people during the course of human history, such as the ancient Greek philosophers. It's a pretty simple idea - that we disturb ourselves in many ways and create much of the emotional distress we experience. Most people prefer to point the finger of blame than look at themselves honestly. We should call this period in human history "The Age of Victimhood".




I've seen all his lectures, read all his books. A lot of what he says is hype and retreaded ground, but the essence of the above quotation about fixing yourself first is the single-most powerful and beneficial piece of advice he gives...


...and 9/10 people will STILL ignore that and look for the panacea, lol.

As others have said his books could easily be 1/3 the length, and his tone is rather droning honestly. A lot of his metaphysics are contradictory however - that's something I noticed. He'll claim X as a foundation then use Y without batting an eye and cross his own logic. He does it all the time in his book comparing lobsters to humans. For everything two things he correctly asserts, I'd say on average he's a little off the mark on one.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26366147 - 12/07/19 01:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I've seen all his lectures



I've always respected what you've said LS. Why does this jarr me so?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26366149 - 12/07/19 01:34 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

When I say that what I mean is I've seen essentially everything he has on YouTube, which may or may not be the best representation of his work.

I do own and have read his books if that's more credence, JSB.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26366188 - 12/07/19 02:19 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

^^ cult member


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26366194 - 12/07/19 02:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Peterson or myself? I'm definitely not a Peterson mark my man, lol. The more time that passes the less I resonate with his messages, other than that above quote which is solid regardless IMHO.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26366206 - 12/07/19 02:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

But you recognize there is a mark


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26366233 - 12/07/19 03:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I got you. There is definitely a weird incel-like cult around his material. Maybe that's where I'm subconsciously feeling a disconnect with him. A lot of people are spot on in their critiques of his work in this thread.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26366305 - 12/07/19 05:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You can make a thread critiquing pretty much anyone and "destroy" them.

Peterson said some inteteresting stuff on a podcast I listened to, so I tuned into what he was putting out and got some stuff out of it. I don't think you have to judge someone as a person or agree with them on everything to resonate with what they say, in that case almost all literature would be moot because no author is perfect


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: feevers] * 3
    #26366874 - 12/07/19 12:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I've also watched a lot of JP interviews, lectures and read some of his stuff. Initially I was on board until I realized how easily it all falls apart.

I have big issues with his brand of self-help totally aside from his personal issues - which are definitely relevant because he seems to have been a total mess in his own personal life while actively touring the country, giving interviews, and charging money for personal consultations on how to get your life together - when his own philosophy didn't even work for himself.

This kind of self help looks good at a casual glance because its stuff your average, privileged person can start enacting right now, and feel like they are starting to get their life together. But in reality, his philosophy doesn't offer much real help to those in less privileged situations or more serious problems. What about people with mental or physical disabilities which this kind of philosophy entirely ignores. Its also the kind of self help that makes good money for the author because it is so easy - but the reality is that changing big problems is never easy.

To make this point easier to understand, look at the popular show Queer Eye on netflix - its a great, feel-good show about helping people get their lives together, but ultimately the messages are to buy a bunch of new stuff, fix your house up, make yourself look better (by buying new clothes, care products, going to the dentist, gym, etc) - basically by doing a bunch of semi-superficial shit that costs money. A lot of this stuff will help your daily mental state while living in this kind of society, but what about the people who have all these problems largely because they can't afford to do all this stuff to "fix their lives" ? They're just shit out of luck?

Peterson's self-help is very similar - surface level stuff that doesn't really go to the root of the kinds of societal issues that are causing people to be disconnected from their self, and disconnected from each other.

This self help is reactionary, seeking to keep the system in tact which has created the problems in the first place.

Actually helpful philosophy would be more revolutionary, providing radical change, rather than reactionary.



Boomer watching Peterson interview:
:manofapproval:


Edited by pixelpopper (12/07/19 01:05 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26366888 - 12/07/19 12:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

And another point I'll add is that JP is the kind of self help that people who have never actually experienced real deal hard shit just love, because it allows them to feel good about themselves while continuing to ignore the problems around them. Someone has some serious problems? Just give 'em a JP book.. here ya go man! Problem solved! Fix your shit! See ya later dude!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26367050 - 12/07/19 02:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
I've also watched a lot of JP interviews, lectures and read some of his stuff. Initially I was on board until I realized how easily it all falls apart.

I have big issues with his brand of self-help totally aside from his personal issues - which are definitely relevant because he seems to have been a total mess in his own personal life while actively touring the country, giving interviews, and charging money for personal consultations on how to get your life together - when his own philosophy didn't even work for himself.

This kind of self help looks good at a casual glance because its stuff your average, privileged person can start enacting right now, and feel like they are starting to get their life together. But in reality, his philosophy doesn't offer much real help to those in less privileged situations or more serious problems. What about people with mental or physical disabilities which this kind of philosophy entirely ignores. Its also the kind of self help that makes good money for the author because it is so easy - but the reality is that changing big problems is never easy.

To make this point easier to understand, look at the popular show Queer Eye on netflix - its a great, feel-good show about helping people get their lives together, but ultimately the messages are to buy a bunch of new stuff, fix your house up, make yourself look better (by buying new clothes, care products, going to the dentist, gym, etc) - basically by doing a bunch of semi-superficial shit that costs money. A lot of this stuff will help your daily mental state while living in this kind of society, but what about the people who have all these problems largely because they can't afford to do all this stuff to "fix their lives" ? They're just shit out of luck?

Peterson's self-help is very similar - surface level stuff that doesn't really go to the root of the kinds of societal issues that are causing people to be disconnected from their self, and disconnected from each other.

This self help is reactionary, seeking to keep the system in tact which has created the problems in the first place.

Actually helpful philosophy would be more revolutionary, providing radical change, rather than reactionary.



Boomer watching Peterson interview:
:manofapproval:




I agree with a lot of what you said about surface level solutions. That's all that sells; feel good personal development. Consistent action to create better habits is where the real work comes in but that's not as fun as reading a book and feeling good NOW. I agree with that.

However...(and being this is a JP thread I feel it's appropriate):

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
And another point I'll add is that JP is the kind of self help that people who have never actually experienced real deal hard shit just love, because it allows them to feel good about themselves while continuing to ignore the problems around them. Someone has some serious problems? Just give 'em a JP book.. here ya go man! Problem solved! Fix your shit! See ya later dude!



Not trying to push any buttons my brother but it sounds like you may be holding some contempt and projecting something here? I sense anger (probably justified) within you. How do you qualify "real deal hard shit"? Versus what, your personal definition of what may or may not constitute love for someone else?

How can you differentiate between the severity of other people's (strangers) problems and needs, or how much any given book or guide will help and apply to them? How do you even know what problems other people may or may not have in the first place? That's a HUGE indirect claim for some serious foreknowledge, my dude! If you have this ability TEACH ME! :cool:

What's your definition of privilege? I see lots of people on this site (not you) bitching about said term yet have full access to the internet, usually from a cell phone. Information and technology are leveling the playing field for a lot of stuff regardless of socioeconomics. We can say this without denying inequality still exists.

It sounds like you're talking out loud in an attempt to justify a deep issue (which we all have), which JP's methods may have triggered (actual correct use of the term) for your own personal demons. JP may have prodded your sleeping dragon (that bastard)!

Again serious introspection question meant to help not aggravate. PM if needed :heart::heart::heart:.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26367317 - 12/07/19 04:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I just watched Peterson on Rogan again,  The man is brilliant.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecannabinated
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal]
    #26367330 - 12/07/19 04:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

hot take alert


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26367341 - 12/07/19 04:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Pat has also claimed that Kid Rock is a “musical genius”.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #26367355 - 12/07/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I bet he likes Don Cherry


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26367387 - 12/07/19 05:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Jordan Peterson’s self help info is pretty good but it feels like it’s repackaged general knowledge.  His college psychology class videos, however are where he really shines.  He knows alot about how the mind works and his classes are very informative.  He goes into everything from Carl Jung to Nietzsche. 

  His interviews are also rather fun because he walks right into the wolf’s den and smacks them right on the nose.

He does get a bad rap from the woke crowd.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #26367393 - 12/07/19 05:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
Pat has also claimed that Kid Rock is a “musical genius”.






If my comprehension of his point at the time
and my recollection of that time
are both correct

seem to recall that his position was not that he was a genius in terms of making music
but a genius at marketing himself through music to a huge demographic in the US in order to get rich off them

do not want to speak for Pat, he can come back and clarify with regards to both points himself

but the implication may be that Peterson going on Joe Rogan's podcast, which has an enormous audience
and talking for a few hours about their combined target audience's favourite topics
was a huge marketing move in terms of getting more buyers for his products

:shrug:



Quote:

I've said it too many times and I still stand firm
You get what you put in and people get what they deserve
Still I ain't seen mine, no I ain't seen mine
I've been givin', just ain't been gettin'
I've been walkin' that there line
So I think I'll keep walking with my head held high
I keep moving on and only God knows why




:trulyinspirational:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26367435 - 12/07/19 05:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

His book was honestly the most boring peace of garbage I've ever purchased. He should have called his book common sense for stupid people. He's interesting to watch but he's also kind of a idiot. When ever someone asks him a question like do you believe in god he'll just rant for 30 min without answering the f--king question lol. He knows religion is man made but he won't say it because he'll lose half of his fans.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika] * 3
    #26367447 - 12/07/19 05:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Im generally not one to split hairs, but since you brought it up, I looked into the claims of musical genius. 

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25319322

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25306870

These are two of Pat’s threads on the subject (there may be more, but he was making a LOT of threads at the time- he was in a bit of a weird headspace).  I’ll admit that I didn’t go through these threads very thoroughly, but in the OPs, he talks a lot specifically about the incredible music talent of Kid Rock.  He does once mention that Kid is “super business minded”, but offers no further thoughts on the subject or elucidation, mentioning nothing about marketing to Americans or Canadians, but I’ll concede that Kid Rock’s representation team has done a good enough job.  I think he just really liked the music. :shrug:

But to bring it back on topic, Jordan Peterson brilliant, hella lobsters, Jamie pull that up, etc etc.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] * 2
    #26367452 - 12/07/19 05:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I bet he likes Don Cherry




Canadian legend.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Burke Dennings] * 1
    #26367457 - 12/07/19 05:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
Im generally not one to split hairs, but since you brought it up, I looked into the claims of musical genius. 

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25319322

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25306870

These are two of Pat’s threads on the subject (there may be more, but he was making a LOT of threads at the time- he was in a bit of a weird headspace).  I’ll admit that I didn’t go through these threads very thoroughly, but in the OPs, he talks a lot specifically about the incredible music talent of Kid Rock.  He does once mention that Kid is “super business minded”, but offers no further thoughts on the subject or elucidation, mentioning nothing about marketing to Americans or Canadians, but I’ll concede that Kid Rock’s representation team has done a good enough job.  I think he just really liked the music. :shrug:

But to bring it back on topic, Jordan Peterson brilliant, hella lobsters, Jamie pull that up, etc etc.




Appreciate the clarification, it was difficult to suss out exactly what he was doing at the time
seem to recall him also being convinced that the Shroomery would be his entrance point to fame via youtube because we provide a dedicated audience to his content already
so was under the impression the megalomania was having to do with get rich quick ideas
but now that you mention it, he was pretty explicit in terms of arguing for the actual quality of the music
while my memory was more of him focusing on Slipknot and Psychosocial being example of well constructed music

:cheers:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26367464 - 12/07/19 05:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Good times in the pub.  :patlal:

:cheers:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow]
    #26368254 - 12/08/19 02:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
His book was honestly the most boring peace of garbage I've ever purchased. He should have called his book common sense for stupid people. He's interesting to watch but he's also kind of a idiot. When ever someone asks him a question like do you believe in god he'll just rant for 30 min without answering the f--king question lol. He knows religion is man made but he won't say it because he'll lose half of his fans.




That's the drawback with these types of intellectuals; McKenna was EXACTLY the same way; when he talks about psyhcs, he's spot the fuck on. The second he leaves that lane and starts waxing and waning about THEORY he loses it. Peterson is the same way.

I lol'd at your last sentence because it's true.


Quote:

lowbrow said:
Jordan Peterson’s self help info is pretty good but it feels like it’s repackaged general knowledge.  His college psychology class videos, however are where he really shines.  He knows alot about how the mind works and his classes are very informative.  He goes into everything from Carl Jung to Nietzsche. 

  His interviews are also rather fun because he walks right into the wolf’s den and smacks them right on the nose.

He does get a bad rap from the woke crowd.




Definitely, just as I said above. When he stays in his lane he's awesome. His books almost feel like a different person vs his lectures.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26368677 - 12/08/19 09:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't understand why people are outraged at this guy.  If you listen to wht he says, it makes sense. It's logical, scientifically accurate and relevant.

Evidently these three things are the most outragous things ever. Especially scientific accuracy.  Because when science doesn't line up with your feelings, it's the end of the world.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal]
    #26368707 - 12/08/19 09:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
...
Evidently these three things are the most outragous things ever. Especially scientific accuracy.  Because when science doesn't line up with your feelings, it's the end of the world.





Is this referring to the people who melt down and revert to 3rd grade biology as their base point because they don't like that trans people are a reality?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26368746 - 12/08/19 10:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
...
Evidently these three things are the most outragous things ever. Especially scientific accuracy.  Because when science doesn't line up with your feelings, it's the end of the world.





Is this referring to the people who melt down and revert to 3rd grade biology as their base point because they don't like that trans people are a reality?




People who melt down, yes.

I didn't say anything about trans people...


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal]
    #26368754 - 12/08/19 10:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
...
Evidently these three things are the most outragous things ever. Especially scientific accuracy.  Because when science doesn't line up with your feelings, it's the end of the world.





Is this referring to the people who melt down and revert to 3rd grade biology as their base point because they don't like that trans people are a reality?




People who melt down, yes.

I didn't say anything about trans people...




You didn't, he does
you just mentioned science, which seemed to indicate you did not take an interest in his extensive work on religious iconography


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26368766 - 12/08/19 10:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
...
Evidently these three things are the most outragous things ever. Especially scientific accuracy.  Because when science doesn't line up with your feelings, it's the end of the world.





Is this referring to the people who melt down and revert to 3rd grade biology as their base point because they don't like that trans people are a reality?




People who melt down, yes.

I didn't say anything about trans people...




You didn't, he does
you just mentioned science, which seemed to indicate you did not take an interest in his extensive work on religious iconography




Well, here's my own personal thought on trans people:

- If you're a guy and feel like a woman, great
- If you're a guy and take hormones to transition, fine
- If you're a guy and get the surgery done, fine

It's your body.

But if that guy starts saying that he IS a woman....  Well, biology says no to that.  You have theright to feel that way and believe it as much as you want.  Changed your name, switch up the pronouns or any other thing to make you equal and respected in society.  But you were born male.  It's scientific fact.  Can you handle scientific fact?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal] * 4
    #26368787 - 12/08/19 10:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
...Can you handle scientific fact?




Sure, how about you?

Quote:

Antiscientific sentiment bombards our politics, or so says the Intellectual Dark Web (IDW). Chief among these antiscientific sentiments, the IDW cites the rising visibility of transgender civil rights demands. To the IDW, trans people and their advocates are destroying the pillars of our society with such free-speech–suppressing, postmodern concepts as: “trans women are women,” “gender-neutral pronouns,” or “there are more than two genders.” Asserting “basic biology” will not be ignored, the IDW proclaims. “Facts don’t care about your feelings.”

The irony in all this is that these “protectors of enlightenment” are guilty of the very behavior this phrase derides. Though often dismissed as just a fringe internet movement, they espouse unscientific claims that have infected our politics and culture. Especially alarming is that these “intellectual” assertions are used by nonscientists to claim a scientific basis for the dehumanization of trans people. The real world consequences are stacking up: the trans military ban, bathroom bills, and removal of workplace and medical discrimination protections, a 41-51 percent suicide attempt rate and targeted fatal violence . It’s not just internet trolling anymore.

Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology. So, hold onto your parts, whatever they may be. It’s time for “the talk.”



Quote:

BIOLOGICAL SEX: HOW YOU GET IT

Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.

Why? Because biological sex is far more complicated than XX or XY (or XXY, or just X). XX individuals could present with male gonads. XY individuals can have ovaries. How? Through a set of complex genetic signals that, in the course of a human’s development, begins with a small group of cells called the bipotential primordium and a gene called SRY.

A newly fertilized embryo initially develops without any indication of its sex. At around five weeks, a group of cells clump together to form the bipotential primordium. These cells are neither male nor female but have the potential to turn into testes, ovaries or neither. After the primordium forms, SRY—a gene on the Y chromosome discovered in 1990, thanks to the participation of intersex XX males and XY females—might be activated.*

Though it is still not fully understood, we know SRY plays a role in pushing the primordium toward male gonads. But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal, the first chord of the “male gonad” symphony. A group of cells (instrument sections) must all express SRY (notes of the chord), at the right time (conductor?). Without that first chord, the embryo will play a different symphony: female gonads, or something in between.

And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.

There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.



Quote:

THE BRAIN: WHERE STUFF GETS “MADE UP”

When the biology gets too complicated, some point to differences between brains of males and females as proof of the sexual binary. But a half century of empirical research has repeatedly challenged the idea that brain biology is simply XY = male brain or XX = female brain. In other words, there is no such thing as “the male brain” or “the female brain.” This is not to say that there are no observable differences. Certain brain characteristics can be sexually dimorphic: observable average differences across males and females. But like biological sex, pointing to “brain sex” as the explanation for these differences is wrong and hinders scientific research.

Let’s just take the most famous example of sexual dimorphism in the brain: the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area (sdnPOA). This tiny brain area with a disproportionately sized name is slightly larger in males than in females. But it’s unclear if that size difference indicates distinctly wired sdnPOAs in males versus females, or if—as with the bipotential primordium—the same wiring is functionally weighted toward opposite ends of a spectrum. Throw in the observation that the sdnPOA in gay men is closer to that of straight females than straight males, and the idea of “the male brain” falls apart.

Trying to link sex, sex chromosomes and sexual dimorphism is also useless for understanding other brain properties. The hormone vasopressin is dimorphic but is linked to both behavioral differences and similarities across sex. Simply put, the idea of a sexual binary isn’t scientifically useful, and nowhere is this more obvious than in the brain. It also happens that transgender people have the brains to prove it.

It’s easy to see sexual dimorphisms and conclude that the brain is binary; easy, but wrong. Thanks to the participation of trans people in research, we have expanded our understanding of how brain structure, sex and gender interact. For some properties like brain volume and connectivity, trans people possessed values in between those typical of cisgender males and females, both before and after transitioning. Another study found that for certain brain regions, trans individuals appeared similar to cis-individuals with the same gender identity. In that same study, researchers found specific areas of the brain where trans people seemed closer to those with the same assigned sex at birth. Other researchers discovered that trans people have unique structural differences from cis-individuals.



Quote:

THE BODY AND THE BRAIN AND THE HORMONES BETWIXT

As if the brain and body weren’t complicated enough, another biological factor influences the expression of biological sex in an individual: hormones. Anyone who has gone through puberty has felt the power of hormones firsthand. But like all things biology, hormones cannot be limited to the pubescent idea of “estrogen = female and testosterone = male.”

For one thing, all humans possess levels of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone with sex differences not as prominent as is popularly thought. During infancy and prepubescence, these hormones sit in a bipotential range, with no marked sex differences. Through puberty, certain sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone and testosterone become weighted toward one end of a spectrum. But in developed adults, estrogen and progesterone levels are on average similar between males and nonpregnant females. And while testosterone exhibits the largest difference between adult males and females, heritability studies have found that genetics (X vs. Y) only explains about 56 percent of an individual’s testosterone, suggesting many other influences on hormones. Furthermore, measurements of sex hormones levels in any one individual wildly vary across the range of “average” values regardless of how close or spread apart you take the measurements. The binary sex model not only insufficiently predicts the presence of hormones but is useless in describing factors that influence them.

Environmental, social and behavioral factors also influence hormones in both males and females, complicating the idea that hormones determine sex. Progesterone changes in response to typically male-coded social situations that involve dominance and competition. Estrogen, typically linked to feminine-coded behavior, also plays a role in masculine-coded dominance/power social scenarios. Though testosterone levels are different between males and females on average, many external factors can change these levels, such as whether or not a person is raising a child. Differing testosterone levels in both men and women can predict certain parenting behaviors. Even the content of a sexual fantasy can change testosterone levels. The fact is, behavior and environment—like cultural gender norms and expectations—influence sex-related hormones, and the biology of the body and brain itself.



Quote:

SCIENCE AND SOCIETY: BETTER TOGETHER

While this is a small overview, the science is clear and conclusive: sex is not binary, transgender people are real. It is time that we acknowledge this. Defining a person’s sex identity using decontextualized “facts” is unscientific and dehumanizing. The trans experience provides essential insights into the science of sex and scientifically demonstrates that uncommon and atypical phenomena are vital for a successful living system. Even the scientific endeavor itself is quantifiably better when it is more inclusive and diverse. So, no matter what a pundit, politician or internet troll may say, trans people are an indispensable part of our living reality.

Transgender humans represent the complexity and diversity that are fundamental features of life, evolution and nature itself. That is a fact.



https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

Quote:

“It’s All in Your Head” – Except When It’s Not

Sex determination – the way we are “coded” into a biological sex – is complicated in and of itself. There are far more options than just “male” or “female,” and countless instances of species that can actually transition from one sex to another within a single lifetime. With most mammals, however, the majority of individuals are cisgender male or female; transgender individuals are estimated to comprise about 0.3% of the adult U.S. population.

Little is known about the causes of transsexuality, and many of the studies that have been conducted – particularly psychological studies – have since been widely discredited (more on that later). However, scientists do seem to have some information on the biological basis of several factors.

First and foremost, is gender identity genetic? It seems the answer is yes – though, as with most traits involving identity, there is some environmental influence. One classic way for scientists to test whether a trait (which can be any characteristic from red hair to cancer susceptibility to love of horror movies) is influenced by genetics is twin studies. Identical twins have the exact same genetic background, and are usually raised in the same environment. Fraternal (nonidentical) twins, however, share only half their genes, but tend to also be raised in the same environment. Thus, if identical twins tend to share a trait more than fraternal twins, that trait is probably influenced by genetics. Several studies have shown that identical twins are more often both transgender than fraternal twins, indicating that there is indeed a genetic influence for this identity. So, what genes might be responsible?

Transgender women tend to have brain structures that resemble cisgender women, rather than cisgender men. Two sexually dimorphic (differing between men and women) areas of the brain are often compared between men and women. The bed nucleus of the stria terminalus (BSTc) and sexually dimorphic nucleus of transgender women are more similar to those of cisgender woman than to those of cisgender men, suggesting that the general brain structure of these women is in keeping with their gender identity.

In 1995 and 2000, two independent teams of researchers decided to examine a region of the brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) in trans- and cisgender men and women (Figure 2). The BSTc functions in anxiety, but is, on average, twice as large and twice as densely populated with cells in men compared to women. This sexual dimorphism is pretty robust, and though scientists don’t know why it exists, it appears to be a good marker of a “male” vs. “female” brain. Thus, these two studies sought to examine the brains of transgender individuals to figure out if their brains better resembled their assigned or chosen sex.

Interestingly, both teams discovered that male-to-female transgender women had a BSTc more closely resembling that of cisgender women than men in both size and cell density, and that female-to-male transgender men had BSTcs resembling cisgender men. These differences remained even after the scientists took into account the fact that many transgender men and women in their study were taking estrogen and testosterone during their transition by including cisgender men and women who were also on hormones not corresponding to their assigned biological sex (for a variety of medical reasons). These findings have since been confirmed and corroborated in other studies and other regions of the brain, including a region of the brain called the sexually dimorphic nucleus (Figure 2) that is believed to affect sexual behavior in animals.

It has been conclusively shown that hormone treatment can vastly affect the structure and composition of the brain; thus, several teams sought to characterize the brains of transgender men and women who had not yet undergone hormone treatment. Several studies confirmed previous findings, showing once more that transgender people appear to be born with brains more similar to gender with which they identify, rather than the one to which they were assigned.




http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecannabinated
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26368790 - 12/08/19 10:34 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

burn


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 47 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26368862 - 12/08/19 11:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
...Can you handle scientific fact?




Sure, how about you?

Quote:

Antiscientific sentiment bombards our politics, or so says the Intellectual Dark Web (IDW). Chief among these antiscientific sentiments, the IDW cites the rising visibility of transgender civil rights demands. To the IDW, trans people and their advocates are destroying the pillars of our society with such free-speech–suppressing, postmodern concepts as: “trans women are women,” “gender-neutral pronouns,” or “there are more than two genders.” Asserting “basic biology” will not be ignored, the IDW proclaims. “Facts don’t care about your feelings.”

The irony in all this is that these “protectors of enlightenment” are guilty of the very behavior this phrase derides. Though often dismissed as just a fringe internet movement, they espouse unscientific claims that have infected our politics and culture. Especially alarming is that these “intellectual” assertions are used by nonscientists to claim a scientific basis for the dehumanization of trans people. The real world consequences are stacking up: the trans military ban, bathroom bills, and removal of workplace and medical discrimination protections, a 41-51 percent suicide attempt rate and targeted fatal violence . It’s not just internet trolling anymore.

Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology. So, hold onto your parts, whatever they may be. It’s time for “the talk.”



Quote:

BIOLOGICAL SEX: HOW YOU GET IT

Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.

Why? Because biological sex is far more complicated than XX or XY (or XXY, or just X). XX individuals could present with male gonads. XY individuals can have ovaries. How? Through a set of complex genetic signals that, in the course of a human’s development, begins with a small group of cells called the bipotential primordium and a gene called SRY.

A newly fertilized embryo initially develops without any indication of its sex. At around five weeks, a group of cells clump together to form the bipotential primordium. These cells are neither male nor female but have the potential to turn into testes, ovaries or neither. After the primordium forms, SRY—a gene on the Y chromosome discovered in 1990, thanks to the participation of intersex XX males and XY females—might be activated.*

Though it is still not fully understood, we know SRY plays a role in pushing the primordium toward male gonads. But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal, the first chord of the “male gonad” symphony. A group of cells (instrument sections) must all express SRY (notes of the chord), at the right time (conductor?). Without that first chord, the embryo will play a different symphony: female gonads, or something in between.

And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.

There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.



Quote:

THE BRAIN: WHERE STUFF GETS “MADE UP”

When the biology gets too complicated, some point to differences between brains of males and females as proof of the sexual binary. But a half century of empirical research has repeatedly challenged the idea that brain biology is simply XY = male brain or XX = female brain. In other words, there is no such thing as “the male brain” or “the female brain.” This is not to say that there are no observable differences. Certain brain characteristics can be sexually dimorphic: observable average differences across males and females. But like biological sex, pointing to “brain sex” as the explanation for these differences is wrong and hinders scientific research.

Let’s just take the most famous example of sexual dimorphism in the brain: the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area (sdnPOA). This tiny brain area with a disproportionately sized name is slightly larger in males than in females. But it’s unclear if that size difference indicates distinctly wired sdnPOAs in males versus females, or if—as with the bipotential primordium—the same wiring is functionally weighted toward opposite ends of a spectrum. Throw in the observation that the sdnPOA in gay men is closer to that of straight females than straight males, and the idea of “the male brain” falls apart.

Trying to link sex, sex chromosomes and sexual dimorphism is also useless for understanding other brain properties. The hormone vasopressin is dimorphic but is linked to both behavioral differences and similarities across sex. Simply put, the idea of a sexual binary isn’t scientifically useful, and nowhere is this more obvious than in the brain. It also happens that transgender people have the brains to prove it.

It’s easy to see sexual dimorphisms and conclude that the brain is binary; easy, but wrong. Thanks to the participation of trans people in research, we have expanded our understanding of how brain structure, sex and gender interact. For some properties like brain volume and connectivity, trans people possessed values in between those typical of cisgender males and females, both before and after transitioning. Another study found that for certain brain regions, trans individuals appeared similar to cis-individuals with the same gender identity. In that same study, researchers found specific areas of the brain where trans people seemed closer to those with the same assigned sex at birth. Other researchers discovered that trans people have unique structural differences from cis-individuals.



Quote:

THE BODY AND THE BRAIN AND THE HORMONES BETWIXT

As if the brain and body weren’t complicated enough, another biological factor influences the expression of biological sex in an individual: hormones. Anyone who has gone through puberty has felt the power of hormones firsthand. But like all things biology, hormones cannot be limited to the pubescent idea of “estrogen = female and testosterone = male.”

For one thing, all humans possess levels of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone with sex differences not as prominent as is popularly thought. During infancy and prepubescence, these hormones sit in a bipotential range, with no marked sex differences. Through puberty, certain sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone and testosterone become weighted toward one end of a spectrum. But in developed adults, estrogen and progesterone levels are on average similar between males and nonpregnant females. And while testosterone exhibits the largest difference between adult males and females, heritability studies have found that genetics (X vs. Y) only explains about 56 percent of an individual’s testosterone, suggesting many other influences on hormones. Furthermore, measurements of sex hormones levels in any one individual wildly vary across the range of “average” values regardless of how close or spread apart you take the measurements. The binary sex model not only insufficiently predicts the presence of hormones but is useless in describing factors that influence them.

Environmental, social and behavioral factors also influence hormones in both males and females, complicating the idea that hormones determine sex. Progesterone changes in response to typically male-coded social situations that involve dominance and competition. Estrogen, typically linked to feminine-coded behavior, also plays a role in masculine-coded dominance/power social scenarios. Though testosterone levels are different between males and females on average, many external factors can change these levels, such as whether or not a person is raising a child. Differing testosterone levels in both men and women can predict certain parenting behaviors. Even the content of a sexual fantasy can change testosterone levels. The fact is, behavior and environment—like cultural gender norms and expectations—influence sex-related hormones, and the biology of the body and brain itself.



Quote:

SCIENCE AND SOCIETY: BETTER TOGETHER

While this is a small overview, the science is clear and conclusive: sex is not binary, transgender people are real. It is time that we acknowledge this. Defining a person’s sex identity using decontextualized “facts” is unscientific and dehumanizing. The trans experience provides essential insights into the science of sex and scientifically demonstrates that uncommon and atypical phenomena are vital for a successful living system. Even the scientific endeavor itself is quantifiably better when it is more inclusive and diverse. So, no matter what a pundit, politician or internet troll may say, trans people are an indispensable part of our living reality.

Transgender humans represent the complexity and diversity that are fundamental features of life, evolution and nature itself. That is a fact.



https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

Quote:

“It’s All in Your Head” – Except When It’s Not

Sex determination – the way we are “coded” into a biological sex – is complicated in and of itself. There are far more options than just “male” or “female,” and countless instances of species that can actually transition from one sex to another within a single lifetime. With most mammals, however, the majority of individuals are cisgender male or female; transgender individuals are estimated to comprise about 0.3% of the adult U.S. population.

Little is known about the causes of transsexuality, and many of the studies that have been conducted – particularly psychological studies – have since been widely discredited (more on that later). However, scientists do seem to have some information on the biological basis of several factors.

First and foremost, is gender identity genetic? It seems the answer is yes – though, as with most traits involving identity, there is some environmental influence. One classic way for scientists to test whether a trait (which can be any characteristic from red hair to cancer susceptibility to love of horror movies) is influenced by genetics is twin studies. Identical twins have the exact same genetic background, and are usually raised in the same environment. Fraternal (nonidentical) twins, however, share only half their genes, but tend to also be raised in the same environment. Thus, if identical twins tend to share a trait more than fraternal twins, that trait is probably influenced by genetics. Several studies have shown that identical twins are more often both transgender than fraternal twins, indicating that there is indeed a genetic influence for this identity. So, what genes might be responsible?

Transgender women tend to have brain structures that resemble cisgender women, rather than cisgender men. Two sexually dimorphic (differing between men and women) areas of the brain are often compared between men and women. The bed nucleus of the stria terminalus (BSTc) and sexually dimorphic nucleus of transgender women are more similar to those of cisgender woman than to those of cisgender men, suggesting that the general brain structure of these women is in keeping with their gender identity.

In 1995 and 2000, two independent teams of researchers decided to examine a region of the brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) in trans- and cisgender men and women (Figure 2). The BSTc functions in anxiety, but is, on average, twice as large and twice as densely populated with cells in men compared to women. This sexual dimorphism is pretty robust, and though scientists don’t know why it exists, it appears to be a good marker of a “male” vs. “female” brain. Thus, these two studies sought to examine the brains of transgender individuals to figure out if their brains better resembled their assigned or chosen sex.

Interestingly, both teams discovered that male-to-female transgender women had a BSTc more closely resembling that of cisgender women than men in both size and cell density, and that female-to-male transgender men had BSTcs resembling cisgender men. These differences remained even after the scientists took into account the fact that many transgender men and women in their study were taking estrogen and testosterone during their transition by including cisgender men and women who were also on hormones not corresponding to their assigned biological sex (for a variety of medical reasons). These findings have since been confirmed and corroborated in other studies and other regions of the brain, including a region of the brain called the sexually dimorphic nucleus (Figure 2) that is believed to affect sexual behavior in animals.

It has been conclusively shown that hormone treatment can vastly affect the structure and composition of the brain; thus, several teams sought to characterize the brains of transgender men and women who had not yet undergone hormone treatment. Several studies confirmed previous findings, showing once more that transgender people appear to be born with brains more similar to gender with which they identify, rather than the one to which they were assigned.



http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/





That is some amazing info. Way too detailed for my understanding but from what I gathered it pretty much says that transgendered people exist with a lot of imperical evidence to prove it.

I'm not at all questioning any of that. 

However (and I hate how simple this is going to sound).

Can trans woman get pregnant?  Can a trans man produce sperm?

What counts at the end of the day is the reproduction.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #26368890 - 12/08/19 11:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
...
That is some amazing info. Way too detailed for my understanding but from what I gathered it pretty much says that transgendered people exist with a lot of imperical evidence to prove it.

I'm not at all questioning any of that. 

However (and I hate how simple this is going to sound).

Can trans woman get pregnant?  Can a trans man produce sperm?

What counts at the end of the day is the reproduction.




Advanced Science: sexual and gender spectrums are not actually binary, and bigger than simply what impacts reproduction

Patlal: that's too complex for me, what really matters is what impacts reproduction in a binary way

:hug:
respect what you are trying to get at with the traditional Darwinistic perception of biological diversity and evolution
but science is moving onward in these studies as more data becomes more readily available to us

such anomalies in sexual dimorphism and expressions also exist in the animal world
it advances the understanding of evolutionary niches when it happens in lions
which may potentially be advantageous for the pride to have additional hunters with increased muscle mass and agression
while adapting to difficult population-management conditions like shrinking habitats

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2106866-five-wild-lionesses-grow-a-mane-and-start-acting-like-males/
Quote:

Five lionesses in Botswana have grown a mane and are showing male-like behaviours. One is even roaring and mounting other females.

Male lions are distinguished by their mane, which they use to attract females, and they roar to protect their territory or call upon members of their pride. Females lack a mane and are not as vocal.

But sometimes lionesses grow a mane and even behave a bit like males. However, until now, reports of such maned lionesses have been extremely rare and largely anecdotal. We knew they existed, but little about how they behave.

Now, Geoffrey D. Gilfillan at the University of Sussex in Falmer, UK, and colleagues have reported five lionesses sporting a mane at the Moremi Game Reserve in Botswana’s Okavango delta.



Quote:

“I don’t think this is anything to be concerned about,” says Hunter. “Although the females are apparently infertile, they otherwise appear to live long, healthy lives. And from a conservation perspective, there is nothing to suggest the pattern is increasing or will ever be anything more than a rare, local phenomenon.”

No one seems to be studying the exact genetic and hormonal causes of this phenomenon at the moment. “I guess there are just one or a few genes altered,” says Vincent Savolainen at Imperial College London, who had a student briefly work on the possible causes. “I believe some masculinised genes have been documented in domesticated cats – it would be good to look into this, especially given that the cat genome is available as reference.”

Could the masculinised females in fact be a boon to the pride when it comes to competing with other prides? It’s possible, it seems.

Gilfillan says he once saw SaF05 bring down a zebra. “A neighbouring pride stole the zebra from SaF05, but in return SaF05 killed two of their cubs.”

Cub-killing behaviour is rare in females but common in males.




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26369184 - 12/08/19 02:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

not Jordan Peterson
but another University Lecture that is a longtime favourite of mine
that may be interesting to you (Pat, or anyone else reading along)

this is labeled as the biological underpinnings of religiosity, and is certainly an accurate title

but one of the particularly intersting points he draws upon a lot in this lecture
is the idea that statistically "obscure" diseases that have no apparent evolutionary advantage (in the case of the lecture; Schizophrenia, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)
and should have logically and scientifically been bred out of the human species on that basis
are actually perpetuated because individuals who express less severe cases of the same symptoms, at a higher percent of the population
function in an advantageous way in social structures -- most frequently as shamans or religious leaders in past societies
but an example is that Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ruins lives; but slight obsessive compulsive tendencies may, for instance, tend you towards thorough book learning that facillitates entry into a quality university

this is not me saying that being trans is a disease, tho fully aware that a number of people already hold such a framework and may adapt to this lense more readily
but is does provide an interesting view into anomalous developments in the human species that do not necessarily seem to line up with standard beliefs of evolution and species development



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26369228 - 12/08/19 02:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Jordan Peterson gets cucked with facts and logic



--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: cannabinated]
    #26369462 - 12/08/19 04:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
burn



No.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26369471 - 12/08/19 04:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Jordan Peterson gets cucked with facts and logic





Maybe you should read his book.  I hear it helps incels with the ladies.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow]
    #26369478 - 12/08/19 05:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Theres no need if Peterson can't hold his own debating I have no desire to read or purchase his book.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26369836 - 12/08/19 09:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Theres no need if Peterson can't hold his own debating I have no desire to read or purchase his book.




So did you even watch this video? Matt and Jordan had a nice discussion along the lines of ‘change my mind’ but there was no intellectual cucking by either side. 

Go ahead and read his book.  The worst that could happen is that he could get you laid.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #26369995 - 12/08/19 11:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

No one will ever be as smart as you Burke!


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26370074 - 12/09/19 01:19 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
...Can you handle scientific fact?




Sure, how about you?

Quote:

Antiscientific sentiment bombards our politics, or so says the Intellectual Dark Web (IDW). Chief among these antiscientific sentiments, the IDW cites the rising visibility of transgender civil rights demands. To the IDW, trans people and their advocates are destroying the pillars of our society with such free-speech–suppressing, postmodern concepts as: “trans women are women,” “gender-neutral pronouns,” or “there are more than two genders.” Asserting “basic biology” will not be ignored, the IDW proclaims. “Facts don’t care about your feelings.”

The irony in all this is that these “protectors of enlightenment” are guilty of the very behavior this phrase derides. Though often dismissed as just a fringe internet movement, they espouse unscientific claims that have infected our politics and culture. Especially alarming is that these “intellectual” assertions are used by nonscientists to claim a scientific basis for the dehumanization of trans people. The real world consequences are stacking up: the trans military ban, bathroom bills, and removal of workplace and medical discrimination protections, a 41-51 percent suicide attempt rate and targeted fatal violence . It’s not just internet trolling anymore.

Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology. So, hold onto your parts, whatever they may be. It’s time for “the talk.”



Quote:

BIOLOGICAL SEX: HOW YOU GET IT

Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.

Why? Because biological sex is far more complicated than XX or XY (or XXY, or just X). XX individuals could present with male gonads. XY individuals can have ovaries. How? Through a set of complex genetic signals that, in the course of a human’s development, begins with a small group of cells called the bipotential primordium and a gene called SRY.

A newly fertilized embryo initially develops without any indication of its sex. At around five weeks, a group of cells clump together to form the bipotential primordium. These cells are neither male nor female but have the potential to turn into testes, ovaries or neither. After the primordium forms, SRY—a gene on the Y chromosome discovered in 1990, thanks to the participation of intersex XX males and XY females—might be activated.*

Though it is still not fully understood, we know SRY plays a role in pushing the primordium toward male gonads. But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal, the first chord of the “male gonad” symphony. A group of cells (instrument sections) must all express SRY (notes of the chord), at the right time (conductor?). Without that first chord, the embryo will play a different symphony: female gonads, or something in between.

And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.

There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.



Quote:

THE BRAIN: WHERE STUFF GETS “MADE UP”

When the biology gets too complicated, some point to differences between brains of males and females as proof of the sexual binary. But a half century of empirical research has repeatedly challenged the idea that brain biology is simply XY = male brain or XX = female brain. In other words, there is no such thing as “the male brain” or “the female brain.” This is not to say that there are no observable differences. Certain brain characteristics can be sexually dimorphic: observable average differences across males and females. But like biological sex, pointing to “brain sex” as the explanation for these differences is wrong and hinders scientific research.

Let’s just take the most famous example of sexual dimorphism in the brain: the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area (sdnPOA). This tiny brain area with a disproportionately sized name is slightly larger in males than in females. But it’s unclear if that size difference indicates distinctly wired sdnPOAs in males versus females, or if—as with the bipotential primordium—the same wiring is functionally weighted toward opposite ends of a spectrum. Throw in the observation that the sdnPOA in gay men is closer to that of straight females than straight males, and the idea of “the male brain” falls apart.

Trying to link sex, sex chromosomes and sexual dimorphism is also useless for understanding other brain properties. The hormone vasopressin is dimorphic but is linked to both behavioral differences and similarities across sex. Simply put, the idea of a sexual binary isn’t scientifically useful, and nowhere is this more obvious than in the brain. It also happens that transgender people have the brains to prove it.

It’s easy to see sexual dimorphisms and conclude that the brain is binary; easy, but wrong. Thanks to the participation of trans people in research, we have expanded our understanding of how brain structure, sex and gender interact. For some properties like brain volume and connectivity, trans people possessed values in between those typical of cisgender males and females, both before and after transitioning. Another study found that for certain brain regions, trans individuals appeared similar to cis-individuals with the same gender identity. In that same study, researchers found specific areas of the brain where trans people seemed closer to those with the same assigned sex at birth. Other researchers discovered that trans people have unique structural differences from cis-individuals.



Quote:

THE BODY AND THE BRAIN AND THE HORMONES BETWIXT

As if the brain and body weren’t complicated enough, another biological factor influences the expression of biological sex in an individual: hormones. Anyone who has gone through puberty has felt the power of hormones firsthand. But like all things biology, hormones cannot be limited to the pubescent idea of “estrogen = female and testosterone = male.”

For one thing, all humans possess levels of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone with sex differences not as prominent as is popularly thought. During infancy and prepubescence, these hormones sit in a bipotential range, with no marked sex differences. Through puberty, certain sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone and testosterone become weighted toward one end of a spectrum. But in developed adults, estrogen and progesterone levels are on average similar between males and nonpregnant females. And while testosterone exhibits the largest difference between adult males and females, heritability studies have found that genetics (X vs. Y) only explains about 56 percent of an individual’s testosterone, suggesting many other influences on hormones. Furthermore, measurements of sex hormones levels in any one individual wildly vary across the range of “average” values regardless of how close or spread apart you take the measurements. The binary sex model not only insufficiently predicts the presence of hormones but is useless in describing factors that influence them.

Environmental, social and behavioral factors also influence hormones in both males and females, complicating the idea that hormones determine sex. Progesterone changes in response to typically male-coded social situations that involve dominance and competition. Estrogen, typically linked to feminine-coded behavior, also plays a role in masculine-coded dominance/power social scenarios. Though testosterone levels are different between males and females on average, many external factors can change these levels, such as whether or not a person is raising a child. Differing testosterone levels in both men and women can predict certain parenting behaviors. Even the content of a sexual fantasy can change testosterone levels. The fact is, behavior and environment—like cultural gender norms and expectations—influence sex-related hormones, and the biology of the body and brain itself.



Quote:

SCIENCE AND SOCIETY: BETTER TOGETHER

While this is a small overview, the science is clear and conclusive: sex is not binary, transgender people are real. It is time that we acknowledge this. Defining a person’s sex identity using decontextualized “facts” is unscientific and dehumanizing. The trans experience provides essential insights into the science of sex and scientifically demonstrates that uncommon and atypical phenomena are vital for a successful living system. Even the scientific endeavor itself is quantifiably better when it is more inclusive and diverse. So, no matter what a pundit, politician or internet troll may say, trans people are an indispensable part of our living reality.

Transgender humans represent the complexity and diversity that are fundamental features of life, evolution and nature itself. That is a fact.



https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

Quote:

“It’s All in Your Head” – Except When It’s Not

Sex determination – the way we are “coded” into a biological sex – is complicated in and of itself. There are far more options than just “male” or “female,” and countless instances of species that can actually transition from one sex to another within a single lifetime. With most mammals, however, the majority of individuals are cisgender male or female; transgender individuals are estimated to comprise about 0.3% of the adult U.S. population.

Little is known about the causes of transsexuality, and many of the studies that have been conducted – particularly psychological studies – have since been widely discredited (more on that later). However, scientists do seem to have some information on the biological basis of several factors.

First and foremost, is gender identity genetic? It seems the answer is yes – though, as with most traits involving identity, there is some environmental influence. One classic way for scientists to test whether a trait (which can be any characteristic from red hair to cancer susceptibility to love of horror movies) is influenced by genetics is twin studies. Identical twins have the exact same genetic background, and are usually raised in the same environment. Fraternal (nonidentical) twins, however, share only half their genes, but tend to also be raised in the same environment. Thus, if identical twins tend to share a trait more than fraternal twins, that trait is probably influenced by genetics. Several studies have shown that identical twins are more often both transgender than fraternal twins, indicating that there is indeed a genetic influence for this identity. So, what genes might be responsible?

Transgender women tend to have brain structures that resemble cisgender women, rather than cisgender men. Two sexually dimorphic (differing between men and women) areas of the brain are often compared between men and women. The bed nucleus of the stria terminalus (BSTc) and sexually dimorphic nucleus of transgender women are more similar to those of cisgender woman than to those of cisgender men, suggesting that the general brain structure of these women is in keeping with their gender identity.

In 1995 and 2000, two independent teams of researchers decided to examine a region of the brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) in trans- and cisgender men and women (Figure 2). The BSTc functions in anxiety, but is, on average, twice as large and twice as densely populated with cells in men compared to women. This sexual dimorphism is pretty robust, and though scientists don’t know why it exists, it appears to be a good marker of a “male” vs. “female” brain. Thus, these two studies sought to examine the brains of transgender individuals to figure out if their brains better resembled their assigned or chosen sex.

Interestingly, both teams discovered that male-to-female transgender women had a BSTc more closely resembling that of cisgender women than men in both size and cell density, and that female-to-male transgender men had BSTcs resembling cisgender men. These differences remained even after the scientists took into account the fact that many transgender men and women in their study were taking estrogen and testosterone during their transition by including cisgender men and women who were also on hormones not corresponding to their assigned biological sex (for a variety of medical reasons). These findings have since been confirmed and corroborated in other studies and other regions of the brain, including a region of the brain called the sexually dimorphic nucleus (Figure 2) that is believed to affect sexual behavior in animals.

It has been conclusively shown that hormone treatment can vastly affect the structure and composition of the brain; thus, several teams sought to characterize the brains of transgender men and women who had not yet undergone hormone treatment. Several studies confirmed previous findings, showing once more that transgender people appear to be born with brains more similar to gender with which they identify, rather than the one to which they were assigned.




http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/




This is an amazing post PACKED with absolutely pertinent info.

Bookmarked for later use and reference! Thank you! :cool:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Jordan Peterson *DELETED* [Re: lowbrow]
    #26370293 - 12/09/19 06:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by YangSupporter

Reason for deletion: q


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: YangSupporter] * 8
    #26370333 - 12/09/19 07:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Here’s my favorite post in the Jordan Peterson subreddit.  Called “I took my girlfriend to see Jordan Peterson”

Quote:

It did not go as well as I hoped. Let me give you a bit of a back story. I am using a throwaway because my girlfriend knows my main Reddit.

I found out about Jordan Peterson about a year ago and since then I became a huge fan. I was never a big reader, but I got all of his books. (They are the only books on my bookshelf and also a book about John F. Kennedy my aunt gave me but I never read. So I don't have many books and its a small shelf.)

I am 19 years old now. I met my girlfriend when we were 17 in high school. When I was 18 I moved out and began to go to the local university. My girlfriend is the same age as I am and she started classes there too. When I moved out is around the time I started reading Dr. Peterson's work and I took the battle against chaos to heart. Mostly because I was a very messy person before. So I kept my new room very clean (I have a roommate who helps) and I was finally able to decorate it the way that I wanted since I moved out. Mostly I kept it simple and tasteful but I also have a big poster of Dr. Peterson in my room.

When I began to see how important Dr. Peterson had become in my life I started trying to get my girlfriend interested. But she did not seem very interested. I thought he could help her a lot, because when we met and she lived at home she was a very messy and chaotic person also. We both were then. Since she moved out also and got a roommate it has gotten even worse for her. I would say her room is about fifty percent messier than it was. She is slouching a lot. She is also very disorganized with her classes and note taking (somehow she is still getting all As, I got all As too my first semester but I also got two Cs). I can't even read or understand the notes she takes for her class. I tried to tell her to be more organized and less chaotic with it, that it would help her more, but I think it got annoying for her to hear it.

Anyway when we would hang out I would try to get her to listen to Dr. Peterson's lectures but it always seemed like a chore or like she didn't really want to. I found it really frustrating because he was so inspiring for me. Eventually I stopped putting them on because I would hear and see her sigh in an exaggerated way when I would put YouTube on with his lectures.

Not long ago it was coming up on the day that we met (our anniversary) and we had a nice dinner at a seafood place we both really like. A few days later I got us tickets to see Dr. Peterson speak. I had hoped that it would be better than the videos. She seemed excited to go and we had a nice night together.

The next day we didn't talk, which is normal these days with school and stuff. I sent her a text message the day after and she didn't respond which I thought was weird. Then I did it the day after and still no response. She didn't write back to me for four days! Until I sent her a long message just asking for an explanation for why she ghosted me or at least let me know she is okay.

A few days later she finally sent me a long email. She said that she wanted some space and that she needed to think. That things were changing and that they weren't the same as they were. She actually blamed Dr. Peterson for changing me! Which is true but I thought I changed for the better. She said I was being really strict with the cleanliness now and that I was saying too much about her being messy. That I wasn't fun any more. And also she said that she wanted to see other people and that she wasn't sure I was the person she wanted to be with forever in a relationship. This was very disappointing to see her go against monogamous relationships.

That isn't all though. I talked to a mutual friend of ours and she told me some things really candidly. Our friend said that after seeing Jordan Peterson in person my girlfriend was really weirded out. Because I cried a little bit there and there were other men crying too. (I didn't think this was fair, there is no shame in crying.) Also that she felt like following Dr. Peterson's advice made me kind of less fun and more boring than how I was when we met at 17. Basically that she thought I became a little too "obsessed" with him. She also said that my girlfriend thought some of the things Dr. Peterson said about relationships were chauvinistic and unrealistic. And then she (not my girlfriend but our friend) said she researched Dr. Peterson and that he hated women and kind of scolded me. I told her that was just SJW/Cultural Marxist propaganda, that Dr. Peterson wasn't really like that and she just didn't understand him. She said I was "talking down" to her and that is why my girlfriend left me. (I don't think she left me she never said she didn't want to see me any more btw.)

Anyway what do I do? How do I fix this and get our friend and my girlfriend to be okay with Dr. Peterson?




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26370370 - 12/09/19 07:47 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That is nothing short of incredible.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26370377 - 12/09/19 07:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Theres no need if Peterson can't hold his own debating I have no desire to read or purchase his book.




So did you even watch this video? Matt and Jordan had a nice discussion along the lines of ‘change my mind’ but there was no intellectual cucking by either side. 

Go ahead and read his book.  The worst that could happen is that he could get you laid.



The title was a joke dude you need to relax.





Well what a coincidence, because i was joking too.  Goddamn, aint that some serindipity.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 55 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Burke Dennings] * 1
    #26370454 - 12/09/19 08:46 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

lmao, that dude probably banged his chick on his bed while looking at his poster of Dr. Peterson.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera]
    #26370813 - 12/09/19 12:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah that is kinda weird

Boy probably missed a father figure in his life


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26371336 - 12/09/19 04:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

he’s a grifter


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lovecheese]
    #26371348 - 12/09/19 04:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I personally think the entire field of philosophy to be a worthless endeavor.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26371359 - 12/09/19 04:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I personally think the entire field of philosophy to be a worthless endeavor.





ok brainlet  :rofl:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26371373 - 12/09/19 04:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I noticed you disappeared from the discussion where you accused the New York Times being fake news when they claimed the NavSec was willing to be fired when he actually got fired not three hours later.

You have anything to say about being so completely wrong?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26371377 - 12/09/19 04:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You brainlet because you making that broad statement about philosophy, is itself PHILOSOPHY and you dont even realize you are doing it LOL

Under this definition
"an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs"
and
"a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought "

If you cant see this you be brainlet dog


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26371386 - 12/09/19 04:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

self referential garbage


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26371388 - 12/09/19 04:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I noticed you disappeared from the discussion where you accused the New York Times being fake news when they claimed the NavSec was willing to be fired when he actually got fired not three hours later.

You have anything to say about being so completely wrong?




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCrazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26371394 - 12/09/19 04:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

koods said:
I noticed you disappeared from the discussion where you accused the New York Times being fake news when they claimed the NavSec was willing to be fired when he actually got fired not three hours later.

You have anything to say about being so completely wrong?







*SecNav


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #26371406 - 12/09/19 04:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

My ex was in the navy and would answer his work phone “NavCommTelComm”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCrazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26371412 - 12/09/19 04:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Awesome


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26372134 - 12/10/19 12:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I personally think the entire field of philosophy to be a worthless endeavor.




You are very much correct in this. The main thing philosophers of the past 2500 years have been trying is to be relevant. I know, I studied philosophy :lol:


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26372230 - 12/10/19 02:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
Boy probably missed a father figure in his life




This.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26372681 - 12/10/19 08:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
Boy probably missed a father figure in his life




This.



You realize that reddit post was a troll, right?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 days, 21 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow] * 3
    #26372701 - 12/10/19 09:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

JP's philosophy can be summed up in 5 words

"Well you see, uh, it's complicated..."



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 days, 21 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: morrowasted]
    #26372712 - 12/10/19 09:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

anyway I listened to some of his stuff when he first blew up in 2016 or 2017 following the canadian law that supposedly made it illegal for teachers to "misgender" students

IDK how I feel about all that but AFAIK nobody has been prosecuted under that law

All I know is when you press him on his religious ideas he just says variations on the theme of "Well I think you're just not thinking about it deeply enough"

ok bro


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 55 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: morrowasted]
    #26372762 - 12/10/19 09:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Peterson's message is, "your life is a mess, get it together."

By their very nature, his devout fans are walking, talking, disasters. They've admitted as much by needed his advice in the first place.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: morrowasted]
    #26372773 - 12/10/19 09:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
anyway I listened to some of his stuff when he first blew up in 2016 or 2017 following the canadian law that supposedly made it illegal for teachers to "misgender" students

IDK how I feel about all that but AFAIK nobody has been prosecuted under that law

All I know is when you press him on his religious ideas he just says variations on the theme of "Well I think you're just not thinking about it deeply enough"

ok bro



Why would an intelligent religious person debate the existence of a higher power?  All you can really do is try to explain your position and stand your ground, but it’s a non-falsifiable claim.
Applying science is a dead end.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 days, 21 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26372788 - 12/10/19 09:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm honestly unsure whether the above post is a defense of or attack on JP :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #26372801 - 12/10/19 09:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't heard of any human rights cases that line up with his "compelled speech" interpretation of the law either.


The one trans related human rights case that blew up in the news here was related to waxing, and set the precedent that offering waxing services for women does not compel you to wax male genitalia.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: psi] * 2
    #26372810 - 12/10/19 09:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Dude I recently read about that waxing case!  The person involved seemed genuinely awful.  Like such a bad person that I question if it’s maybe not a transphobe LARPing as a trans person in an attempt to make them all look terrible.  But that’s probably me overthinking it- they’re probably just an asshole trans person.  But jeez, what an asshole.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: psi]
    #26372817 - 12/10/19 09:59 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psi said:
I haven't heard of any human rights cases that line up with his "compelled speech" interpretation of the law either.


The one trans related human rights case that blew up in the news here was related to waxing, and set the precedent that offering waxing services for women does not compel you to wax male genitalia.



There’s more to it than that.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow]
    #26372827 - 12/10/19 10:03 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Of course there is. But which "it" are you talking about? Peterson's "compelled speech" interpretation or the waxing case?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: psi]
    #26372847 - 12/10/19 10:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The waxing case.  Can we link kiwi farm threads or is that a no-no?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #26372849 - 12/10/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
Dude I recently read about that waxing case!  The person involved seemed genuinely awful.  Like such a bad person that I question if it’s maybe not a transphobe LARPing as a trans person in an attempt to make them all look terrible.  But that’s probably me overthinking it- they’re probably just an asshole trans person.  But jeez, what an asshole.




Yeah I got the impression on reddit at the time that trans people posting there were not generally in support of Yaniv either.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow]
    #26372853 - 12/10/19 10:19 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
The waxing case.  Can we link kiwi farm threads or is that a no-no?



OK yeah that was just a quick summary. I don't know that site but I'm not aware of any rule that wouldn't allow linking to it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: psi]
    #26372868 - 12/10/19 10:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

lowbrow said:
The waxing case.  Can we link kiwi farm threads or is that a no-no?



OK yeah that was just a quick summary. I don't know that site but I'm not aware of any rule that wouldn't allow linking to it.




He has his own sub-forum.
https://kiwifarms.net/

He has three pages of threads in his sub-forum.

https://kiwifarms.net/forums/jonathan-yaniv.99/

This is his actual thread.  You’re going to need a shower if you decide to venture this far.
If I were you Id just read the first post.  That will tell you all you need to know.

Unless you want to read the whole 754 pages.


https://kiwifarms.net/threads/jonathan-yaniv-jessica-yaniv-trustednerd-trustednerd-com-jy-knows-it-jy-british-columbia.49790/


Have fun.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera]
    #26372872 - 12/10/19 10:35 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Peterson's message is, "your life is a mess, get it together."

By their very nature, his devout fans are walking, talking, disasters. They've admitted as much by needed his advice in the first place.




I'm always reminded of something I read on a marketing site, that said the people who sell "How to make money" courses are proof their own advice doesn't work.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26372921 - 12/10/19 11:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I hadn't seen every last social media post from Yaniv but I was aware of the pedo-sounding stuff. Though it is kind of tangential to the human rights case.


My point in bringing it up was that I'm unaware of any cases that line up with Peterson's "compelled speech" interpretation of the law, and that this was the only thing I was aware of in that general ballpark (and the complainant lost and a precedent was set that there was no compelled scrotum waxing).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTattersail
Female User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/18
Posts: 285
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: psi] * 1
    #26373027 - 12/10/19 12:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think he's great. Not in a culty way I hope, but his videos and books have helped me a lot. I went through an angry feminist stage a couple years ago and was unhappy with my life, and after watching a video of him and Camille Paglia it was like somebody flipped a light switch.

It may be that much of what hes saying is said by others or has been said before. Philosophy is an old tradition and ideas are often rehashed and reframed. But he seems to be a bit different in that he is prepared to stand up for his what hw thinks is right rather than lock himself in a classroom like many other academics.


--------------------
LAGM2021
Trades

We may lose or we may win, but we'll never be here again


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26373171 - 12/10/19 01:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think philosophy is for stupid people.



--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera] * 5
    #26373173 - 12/10/19 01:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

christopera said:

Peterson's message is, "your life is a mess, get it together."

By their very nature, his devout fans are walking, talking, disasters. They've admitted as much by needed his advice in the first place.




Your life must be a total disaster if you actually believe that stuff. Wow - let's all close our minds to alternative ideas! Great post. It reveals a lot. What ever we do, let's not discuss concepts and instead claim other lives are a "disaster". LOL, that made my day. It's so fucking easy to sit back and lob bombs instead of adding something to the conversation.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 55 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26373207 - 12/10/19 02:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Why you so bent out of shape over it?

Peterson sells stuff to people interested in self help. That’s a fact.

How many fighter pilots, astronauts, presidents, well published researchers do you see publishing self help books? It’s none.

Maybe David Harvey or Noam Chomsky can weigh in, but I have a feeling that the self help arena isn’t exactly on the cutting edge of human achievement.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: christopera] * 3
    #26373254 - 12/10/19 02:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

We live in an age of victimization, where we blame unhappiness on everything but ourselves. We blame our parents. We blame our genes. We blame the fucked up country we live in. We blame our "chemical imbalances" for disturbing emotions. Blame blame blame. This is where we are as a species. We usually sit on the golden throne of condemnation and blame anything and everything but ourselves. But we are the cause of our problems. Fighter pilots, astronauts, and presidents don't publish self help books because they are too busy reading them. "Self Help" is the new "RETARDED" - let's discuss why we bash helping ourselves instead of pointing the finger of blame. We must destroy these cultural beliefs propping up the flawed irrational concepts of victimhood.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 55 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26373407 - 12/10/19 03:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

How is self help the new “retarded”, do you care to elaborate?

Also, do you have proof that astronauts and presidents are too busy reading self helps books to write them? There’s quite a number of books by people in those positions that have already been published. None of them are self help.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26373674 - 12/10/19 05:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
anyway I listened to some of his stuff when he first blew up in 2016 or 2017 following the canadian law that supposedly made it illegal for teachers to "misgender" students

IDK how I feel about all that but AFAIK nobody has been prosecuted under that law

All I know is when you press him on his religious ideas he just says variations on the theme of "Well I think you're just not thinking about it deeply enough"

ok bro




As a transwoman, get uniquely labelled as both a bigot and truscum for my position on this
but do not think that it makes sense to have a legal attempt at proliferation of pronouns
do respect that there are non-binary individuals who insist that "they" is not good enough for them
but also recognize that language evolves at a rate relative to accepted use, not relative to dictated terms

of course, also have the benefit that "true" scotswomen transwomen and transmen were never portrayed as an issue to him
because typically we both want to be identified by a traditional term
and take as many steps as possible to meet up with the expected associations of our gender
rather than seeking to inject Peterson's much feared "Chaos" into the system

with that said, have similiarly not heard of anyone being impacted by this law in the manner he proposed we would be seeing a proliferation of


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26373682 - 12/10/19 05:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
We live in an age of victimization, where we blame unhappiness on everything but ourselves. We blame our parents. We blame our genes. We blame the fucked up country we live in. We blame our "chemical imbalances" for disturbing emotions. Blame blame blame. This is where we are as a species. We usually sit on the golden throne of condemnation and blame anything and everything but ourselves. But we are the cause of our problems. Fighter pilots, astronauts, and presidents don't publish self help books because they are too busy reading them. "Self Help" is the new "RETARDED" - let's discuss why we bash helping ourselves instead of pointing the finger of blame. We must destroy these cultural beliefs propping up the flawed irrational concepts of victimhood.




The biggest problem with self-help is that so many things get labeled under it, it is difficult to consider what may or may not be "valid"

have picked up a guide to walking meditation and a guide of how to use Seduction to exploit people and gain power
in the same self-help section of a Chapters

the Seduction book ended up being a companion-piece to another title (that I have not read)
known as the 48 laws of power
and apparently the 48 laws is for masculine individuals seeking social status
while the Seduction book is all about lessons in soft-power and how to pull strings from behind the scene when you don't have the social currency and power to do so openly (under the laws of power)

having read through my purchases (this was several years ago, after all)
would argue that both help people get ahead or find more comfort and fluidity in the social sphere
but the walking meditation guide was not full of messaging about how the way to help yourself is to exploit others

recall a similiar sentiment in reading the famous "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book
it's supposed to teach the reader how to view the world through a lens of making money work for you
but even right at the start, the author talks about how intelligent it was for his "Rich Dad" to teach him about wealth
by exploiting child labour in his shops


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26373690 - 12/10/19 05:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It seems that many self help books are imperfect authors painting a picture of who they want to be, telling the story of their quest to better themselves, whether they realize it or not. I've seen Meditations by Marcus Aurelius in self-help sections before. It makes sense that they resonate with so many people... if someone 'perfect' was writing the book then the content probably wouldn't be relatable in the first place.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26374178 - 12/10/19 11:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don’t know, I don’t trust anyone who advocates for the use of cocaine.



--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26374317 - 12/11/19 01:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

By our logic, aren't self-help authors just slightly-less fucked up individuals panning to slightly-more fucked up individuals? I'm always weary of people obsessed with helping other people at all costs; that's a huge sign too. LET ME HELP YOU I HAVE A SOLUTION!! Go away, lol.

If it helps, it helps. Weird to think about.

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
We live in an age of victimization, where we blame unhappiness on everything but ourselves. We blame our parents. We blame our genes. We blame the fucked up country we live in. We blame our "chemical imbalances" for disturbing emotions. Blame blame blame. This is where we are as a species. We usually sit on the golden throne of condemnation and blame anything and everything but ourselves. But we are the cause of our problems. Fighter pilots, astronauts, and presidents don't publish self help books because they are too busy reading them. "Self Help" is the new "RETARDED" - let's discuss why we bash helping ourselves instead of pointing the finger of blame. We must destroy these cultural beliefs propping up the flawed irrational concepts of victimhood.




This is so spot the fuck on.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123] * 1
    #26374642 - 12/11/19 09:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vault123 said:
I think philosophy is for stupid people.






Why do you think it’s for stupid people. Your chart says the opposite.

Imagine if those smart people did something useful and didn’t get a degree in naval gazing


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/11/19 09:10 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26374700 - 12/11/19 09:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hmm, I'm about 110 so I'm right on spot on the graph for a nurse.
:nursemaryjane:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26374713 - 12/11/19 09:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm about 130 so my interest in philosophy agrees with the graph. Or vice versa. Whatever.

I'm still baffled by the pervading attitude towards 'self-help', 'philosophy' and 'Jordan Peterson'.

Incredibly enlightened by this new knowledge as to people, but baffled nonetheless.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26374749 - 12/11/19 10:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It should be no surprise that those who are at war with reality because it doesn't align with their beliefs would take issue with the field of study devoted to rational thought

They are irrational so it enrages them

They are so ignorant they think they are the geniuses because they ride a special shorter bus than the other kids and their mom calls em special

as we can see by Einstein using a graph to disprove his own point because he is too ignorant to understand how to read a graph

The ignorance is terminal and its best to let these people just be alone and not interact with them as they will do all they can to drag others down to their stupid level because in the back of thier minds they know they are fuck ups and they cant stand the success of others

Notice these same people will often rant about "billionaires" and "the 1%" as they sit and steep in their own miserable lives without doing anything to better themselves


You are better than them and that is the truth


Edited by CornboySavage (12/11/19 10:13 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage] * 2
    #26374759 - 12/11/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

"billionaires" and "the 1%

Are a whole different "ball game" friend. Pure evil incarnate.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecannabinated
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26374781 - 12/11/19 10:29 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Hmm, I'm about 110 so I'm right on spot on the graph for a nurse.
:nursemaryjane:




and 80% female :smilingpuppy:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: cannabinated]
    #26374784 - 12/11/19 10:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

:archiebunker::nursemaryjane:

I have women tell me all the time I'm the straightest "gay" guy they ever met, lol.
:lolsy:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLikeMyc
Microscopicologist
Male

Registered: 12/06/19
Posts: 1,086
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 3
    #26374792 - 12/11/19 10:34 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm no spring chicken and i've gone through the usual life changing events such as death of loved ones, divorce, career loss, body part loss (from shrapnel), homelessness, etc.

Until I hit the mothership of all rain storms that even I nor others could pull me out of... until I started to give Peterson a chance.

The SOB gave one advice that I haven't tried before... and it worked. The man isn't perfect but he is really helping people. Maybe he sounds preachy and people form a cult based on his views but that is irrelevant to me because if you have any sense, you'd weed the BS out to find those gems that work for you.

If you are focused about the whole cult and preaching thing then maybe you have too much time on your hands.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: LikeMyc] * 1
    #26374811 - 12/11/19 10:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LikeMyc said:
The SOB gave one advice that I haven't tried before... and it worked. The man isn't perfect but he is really helping people. Maybe he sounds preachy and people form a cult based on his views but that is irrelevant to me because if you have any sense, you'd weed the BS out to find those gems that work for you.



Here Here!

Great post man, I like the way you prefaced by explaining that you undoubtedly know just how bad the human experience can get, and how far one can fall when life throws its inevitable tragedies your way.

Welcome to the Shroomery, I appreciate your realness.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26374891 - 12/11/19 11:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Are you certain that’s the reason Einstein used a graph to disprove his own point?


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375009 - 12/11/19 12:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
It should be no surprise that those who are at war with reality because it doesn't align with their beliefs would take issue with the field of study devoted to rational thought

They are irrational so it enrages them

They are so ignorant they think they are the geniuses because they ride a special shorter bus than the other kids and their mom calls em special

as we can see by Einstein using a graph to disprove his own point because he is too ignorant to understand how to read a graph

The ignorance is terminal and its best to let these people just be alone and not interact with them as they will do all they can to drag others down to their stupid level because in the back of thier minds they know they are fuck ups and they cant stand the success of others

Notice these same people will often rant about "billionaires" and "the 1%" as they sit and steep in their own miserable lives without doing anything to better themselves


You are better than them and that is the truth




Ha. You’re unhinged


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,535
Loc: United States Flag
Last seen: 2 minutes, 26 seconds
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26375098 - 12/11/19 01:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Wtf is wrong with u guys why does everything have to be some major flip out shit show over nothing. Who gives a shit about jordan fucking Peterson. The kids right psychology is fucking stupid and only idiots major in it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #26375104 - 12/11/19 01:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Wtf is wrong with u guys why does everything have to be some major flip out shit show over nothing. Who gives a shit about jordan fucking Peterson.

Agreed.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
    #26375144 - 12/11/19 01:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Does it? :wink:


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375325 - 12/11/19 03:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I prefer to occupy myself with things I enjoy. I dont care if they are meaningful or not.

I you studied philosophy, you would know nothing has intrinsic value anyway

Let nihilism set you free, my brother


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tripsurfer] * 2
    #26375395 - 12/11/19 04:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
Let nihilism set you free, my brother



The only thing nihilism ever did for me is cause me to drink more. Like bad drinking. Blackout kinda drunk.

I think nihilism IS the trap, personally. Horses for courses, of course.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26375699 - 12/11/19 06:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Has Peterson ever mentioned Daniel Goleman’s work on emotional intelligence? It seems like even he would benefit from it...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375709 - 12/11/19 06:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

So I just went through all five stages of grief when I realized what had happened here. Not one single person got the joke. I have a personal philosophy (no pun intended) of never letting an opportunity go to waste. So, how could I have made that more obvious?

I put giant purple lines on there to highlight the relevant areas that I thought pertained you the discussion. Would arrows have helped? Maybe a giant block of text with some witty pun? I guess I could have put the winky face emoji on there. I thought the “less is more” approach would have been more impactful. I suppose there’s a limit to that.

Were you guys trying to help me figure out how to read a graph? I thought I would have gotten a little more credit than that. I must not have been making a very good impression lately. I thought that was so obvious.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375849 - 12/11/19 07:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Make better jokes then

you cannot assume someone to give you benefit of the doubt when we have seen how hatred drives people into stupidity


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375869 - 12/11/19 07:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

And you! You gotta jump straight to short bus. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.00 it is straight to the fucking short bus. That’s a little harsh isn’t it? Are there any other possible explanations for interpreting the chart in the diametrically opposite direction?

Does it have to go straight to short bus? I guess that is consistent with hamlens law. Now you have me double checking every fucking word because you put me on the short bus because of one chart.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375878 - 12/11/19 07:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Completely reversing a data set is short bus material sorry bro you qualified

I get no sympathy and you shouldn't either that's just equality baby


Edited by CornboySavage (12/11/19 07:27 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375885 - 12/11/19 07:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Ignorance is bliss.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375889 - 12/11/19 07:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hey let that be a lesson. That’s what happens when you go full retard.



Do I gotta clarify this as a joke too?


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375912 - 12/11/19 07:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Can you explain it to me?

I prefer to post with my monitor off so I cant see the video


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375921 - 12/11/19 07:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:

I prefer to post with my monitor off 




:ifyoucanawe:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375925 - 12/11/19 07:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

And you know what the best part is? I was supporting your position. I posted a chart bragging about philosophy. Of all of the people here, with all of the diversity of opinions and positions, it was you, who I agreed with that did this to me. I just can’t believe it. It is beyond the pale of what I would have ever expected.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375934 - 12/11/19 07:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't hold anyone in special regard.

I don't care if you agree with me, I'm not a tribalist, I don't know you. I am not on your "team" because our opinions aligned

The only person I hold in special regards is koods and thats only because I think he might actually be suffering some kind of psychosis

I'm not here to gang up with people who support my opinions

You could be a horrible person for all I know and agreeing with me and thinking that will curry favor is a misguided belief

You're already over-triggered so I figured I'd lay it out for you since you have made the decision to feel offended

Et tu, Brute? Give me a break


Edited by CornboySavage (12/11/19 07:53 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26375948 - 12/11/19 07:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There is no such thing as over triggered.

We haven’t even reached 9000 yet.



--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375989 - 12/11/19 08:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps nihilism truly is the only way. We’re all going to die after all. None of us ever chose to be here. Perish I’ve finally stared too long into the abyss, and now the abyss has stared back into me...


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26375994 - 12/11/19 08:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Just start talking about trans people and watch the triggered rise from the ether like clouds forming overhead


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26376020 - 12/11/19 08:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, side topic here. Considering the topic of nihilism, if you haven’t seen the rock and morty’s wise crack episode I highly recommend it. It is absolutely hilarious. Well, in my opinion it’s hilarious, I understand there are differences in opinion of what is considered funny around here. In my opinion it is well worth the watch. Great philosophy in it. On if the few videos that I rewatched.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26376032 - 12/11/19 08:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vault123 said:
Perhaps nihilism truly is the only way. We’re all going to die after all. None of us ever chose to be here. Perish I’ve finally stared too long into the abyss, and now the abyss has stared back into me...



This is nihilism:

Mine was no uncommon experience. I had read too much positive science and lived too much positive life. In the eagerness of youth I had made the ancient mistake of pursuing Truth too relentlessly. I had torn her veils from her, and the sight was too terrible for me to stand. In brief, I lost my fine faiths in pretty well everything except humanity, and the humanity I retained faith in was a very stark humanity indeed. This long sickness of pessimism is too well known to most of us to be detailed here. Let it suffice to state that I had it very bad. I meditated suicide coolly, as a Greek philosopher might. My regret was that there were too many dependent directly upon me for food and shelter for me to quit living.
--Jack London, John Barleycorn

I dunno. I've been stuck in it a few years now, and I just don't think there's any how that it is the way forward.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26376044 - 12/11/19 08:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

If you want to see nihilism you gotta see tantrikas bunny drowning meme. That thing will make you cry. It’s very visceral.


Edited by vault123 (12/11/19 09:17 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26376137 - 12/11/19 09:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

No I don’t think so either. It certainly isn’t useful for anything. Perhaps one day we will all die and it is all pointless. That just means we need to take even more joy in all of the small satisfactions we have available to us at the moment.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevault123
SangSpell

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 1,229
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26376148 - 12/11/19 10:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Marcus was a friend. So I’ll take that as a compliment.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26376206 - 12/11/19 10:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:

I don't hold anyone in special regard.

I don't care if you agree with me, I'm not a tribalist, I don't know you. I am not on your "team" because our opinions aligned

The only person I hold in special regards is koods and thats only because I think he might actually be suffering some kind of psychosis 




That's a special type of discrimination :tongue2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCornboySavage
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 232
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26376213 - 12/11/19 10:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Mostly pity at this point like I have tried to interact with the man but he is just broken


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26376510 - 12/12/19 04:27 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
I prefer to occupy myself with things I enjoy. I dont care if they are meaningful or not.

I you studied philosophy, you would know nothing has intrinsic value anyway

Let nihilism set you free, my brother




This is the perfect example of an irrational (and contradictory) metaphysic in action.

If you studied philosophy you'd understand why you concede your entire position/argument just by making this post.

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I think nihilism IS the trap, personally. Horses for courses, of course.




This is the correct and rational metaphysic.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: vault123]
    #26389645 - 12/18/19 09:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vault123 said:
If you want to see nihilism you gotta see tantrikas bunny drowning meme. That thing will make you cry. It’s very visceral.




I love bunnies



but I've also sat by the Lachine Canal in the wee hours of the morning watching a Heron hunt fish
and my distinction in their prey's right to live based on my measures of cuteness does not bear out on the wider world


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Tantrika]
    #26390693 - 12/19/19 01:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26390741 - 12/19/19 01:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

So what’s your take on the videos?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26390755 - 12/19/19 01:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm just posting some vids for anyone who happens to be reading the thread and is open to critical viewpoints. I don't really care much to discuss at this point as the bulk of members here seem to be pretty status quo on basically everything, and if I have a problem with trite philosophy on life then I'm just doing things like "projecting"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26390795 - 12/19/19 02:14 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
I'm just posting some vids for anyone who happens to be reading the thread and is open to critical viewpoints. I don't really care much to discuss at this point as the bulk of members here seem to be pretty status quo on basically everything, and if I have a problem with trite philosophy on life then I'm just doing things like "projecting"



I’m asking your take on the videos you just posted.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26404971 - 12/28/19 03:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Please explain

I actually did study philosophy and have an MA in Philosphical Antropology, but English is not my native language so maybe Im missing some sublte meaning.

To me the realisation that nothing has intrincic value is liberating as it means that I can decide for myself what is important in (my) life. Actions based on owns belief of what is right and wrong are more sincere imo. But I never forget that what is right/wrong for me is totally subjective. As I believe it is for everybody but not everybody is willing to see that.

I know plenty of people who see the absence of intrinsic value as something terrible. For some reason most of these people are vegetarians :shrug:


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* I'm going to let Jordan Peterson be my role model
( 1 2 all )
TNK 717 38 12/01/18 03:02 PM
by Tantrika
* Jordan Peterson.
( 1 2 3 all )
Plain 1,267 50 01/08/19 09:10 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* Jordan Peterson and Russel Brand xzylocybin 210 0 02/17/18 12:50 AM
by xzylocybin
* Jordan Peterson takes antidepressants ??!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
NOUS333 4,873 142 02/08/20 11:03 AM
by viraldrome
* Thoughts on Jordan Peterson? (Looking for good debaters) Parasyte 552 12 02/14/18 09:11 PM
by Parasyte
* Dr. Jordan B Peterson
( 1 2 3 all )
schwarg 2,223 47 05/22/17 10:03 AM
by Tantrika
* Nihilism and the consequences of hypocrisy (heavy shit, right?)
( 1 2 all )
Maitreya 2,455 25 07/26/12 08:28 PM
by The Phleg
* Robert Jordan, author of The Wheel of Time, is dead
( 1 2 all )
trendalM 4,020 23 02/26/08 08:44 PM
by Kada

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
2,959 topic views. 9 members, 51 guests and 72 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.112 seconds spending 0.014 seconds on 14 queries.