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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Jordan Peterson 3
#26364727 - 12/06/19 10:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is there anyone out there that knows him and his work that doesn't think that the guy is the absolute epiphany of a modern philosopher? Of someone who clearly sees our current state and condition, and has some real, practical, tangible solutions to dealing with the difficulties of it?
And if you don't know him and his work, I couldn't suggest any more highly than to become acquainted with it. It's incredibly accessible and easy to digest, IME.
Would love to share anything he's produced in this thread; specifically if it touched you. Videos/quotes/etc.
I'll start:
Quote:
If you are suffering—well, that’s the norm. People are limited and life is tragic. If your suffering is unbearable, however, and you are starting to become corrupted, here’s something to think about.
Consider your circumstances. Start small. Have you taken full advantage of the opportunities offered to you? Are you working hard on your career, or even your job, or are you letting bitterness and resentment hold you back and drag you down? Have you made peace with your brother? Are you treating your spouse and your children with dignity and respect? Do you have habits that are destroying your health and well-being? Are you truly shouldering your responsibilities? Have you said what you need to say to your friends and family members? Are there things that you could do, that you know you could do, that would make things around you better?
Have you cleaned up your life?
If the answer is no, here’s something to try: Start to stop doing what you know to be wrong. Start stopping today. Don’t waste time questioning how you know that what you’re doing is wrong, if you are certain that it is. Inopportune questioning can confuse, without enlightening, as well as deflecting you from action. You can know that something is wrong or right without knowing why. Your entire Being can tell you something that you can neither explain nor articulate. Every person is too complex to know themselves completely, and we all contain wisdom that we cannot comprehend.
So, simply stop, when you apprehend, however dimly, that you should stop. Stop acting in that particular, despicable manner. Stop saying those things that make you weak and ashamed. Say only those things that make you strong. Do only those things that you could speak of with honour.
You can use your own standards of judgment. You can rely on yourself for guidance. You don’t have to adhere to some external, arbitrary code of behaviour (although you should not overlook the guidelines of your culture. Life is short, and you don’t have time to figure everything out on your own. The wisdom of the past was hard-earned, and your dead ancestors may have something useful to tell you).
Don’t blame capitalism, the radical left, or the iniquity of your enemies. Don’t reorganize the state until you have ordered your own experience. Have some humility. If you cannot bring peace to your household, how dare you try to rule a city? Let your own soul guide you. Watch what happens over the days and weeks. When you are at work you will begin to say what you really think. You will start to tell your wife, or your husband, or your children, or your parents, what you really want and need. When you know that you have left something undone, you will act to correct the omission. Your head will start to clear up, as you stop filling it with lies. Your experience will improve, as you stop distorting it with inauthentic actions. You will then begin to discover new, more subtle things that you are doing wrong. Stop doing those, too. After some months and years of diligent effort, your life will become simpler and less complicated. Your judgment will improve. You will untangle your past. You will become stronger and less bitter. You will move more confidently into the future. You will stop making your life unnecessarily difficult. You will then be left with the inevitable bare tragedies of life, but they will no longer be compounded with bitterness and deceit.
Perhaps you will discover that your now less-corrupted soul, much stronger than it might otherwise have been, is now able to bear those remaining, necessary, minimal, inescapable tragedies. Perhaps you will even learn to encounter them so that they stay tragic—merely tragic—instead of degenerating into outright hellishness. Maybe your anxiety, and hopelessness, and resentment, and anger—however murderous, initially—will recede. Perhaps your uncorrupted soul will then see its existence as a genuine good, as something to celebrate, even in the face of your own vulnerability. Perhaps you will become an ever-more-powerful force for peace and whatever is good.
Perhaps you will then see that if all people did this, in their own lives, the world might stop being an evil place. After that, with continued effort, perhaps it could even stop being a tragic place. Who knows what existence might be like if we all decided to strive for the best? Who knows what eternal heavens might be established by our spirits, purified by truth, aiming skyward, right here on the fallen Earth?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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It’s a cult dude
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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mt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
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He has good things to say about raising yourself from your bootstraps n everything but whenever hes talking about truth its so vague seems like hes intentionally trying to muttle things which he has to do of course otherwise everything else he says means very little. I think theres something to it tho and I also think theres something to sam harris' absolute befuddlement at wtf hes talking about
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Wasn't a fan of his book at all for some reason, his writing style is a little dry and preachy. Could've been 1/3 of the page count and gotten the same message across. I don't think I finished it.
I like a lot of what I've heard from him though, and his interview with Cathy Newman is legendary, probably the best live dismantling of a biased attack dog journalist I've ever seen.
This is probably my favorite clip from him, and I've shared it with quite a few people. Especially starting 7 minutes in, it hit home with me pretty hard:
Edited by feevers (12/06/19 10:58 AM)
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Socrateshroom
сталкер


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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: feevers] 1
#26364788 - 12/06/19 11:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've been a fan of his for quite a while but I do agree that there are some "culty" aspects to the culture around him (obviously not his fault if people deify him, he never asked for that).
I love his talks but agree with feevers that his writing is a bit preachy (his lectures and interviews don't feel that way).
But, from the years of taking in his interviews, lectures, and books, it seems it all boils to a single message (in terms of a message of "self-help" or "what to do". He has a vast array of knowledge on psychology, psychotherapy, biblical archetypes, Carl Jung, and so forth that is worth discovering).
His message, said a billion ways is, something akin to,
Fix yourself before you try to fix the world
I think it is an important message and has really helped me out. It is an obvious message but he presents it in an incredibly articulate and fascinating way.
I think the closer a person is to the center (spiritually, politically, emotionally etc) the less "profound" his message seems to be (albeit still helpful and worth a listen).
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Edited by Socrateshroom (12/06/19 11:16 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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He’s essentially a Christian minister who tones down the religion so much you don’t even realize you’re getting infused with biblical teachings.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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CountHTML
Stranger


Registered: 06/24/18
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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] 1
#26364856 - 12/06/19 11:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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He’s a charismatic speaker and pretty much articulates traditional Western values of individualism and the pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps ethos that has been an engine of our culture for so long. He seems to assume that this is a universal feature of some human mythological meta story. I totally agree with him on archetypes and meta stories but think he worships existing hierarchies and power structures a bit too much.
He once spent two hours arguing with Sam Harris about basic epistemology, which was painful to listen to and quite frankly Sam was correct.
Overall I like listening to him but I think he is taken a bit too seriously overall. A lot of his message is his opinion about how one should live, but many act as if he’s channeling some kind of transcendent truth. I think that the flak and vitriol he’s generated on part of the media has boosted his popularity immensely because for many people, there is profundity in what he says and it makes journalists like Newman look like an ass. All the while it creates a frame where Peterson is a hero and “there must be something to what he’s saying if the left and the media hate him so much.”
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Tripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!



Registered: 08/01/12
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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CountHTML] 1
#26364891 - 12/06/19 12:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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He is a charismatic speaker and that interview is epic. On a personal level he is deeply unhappy and quite heavily medicated on anti-depressants and whatnot.
To me that makes it kinda: "Do as I say, not as I do"
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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pixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
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He's fond of lobsters
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christopera
Stranger


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Peterson sucks, and I have heard a number of debates where he got owned. The rest of his debates are with news anchors and other people that don't stand a chance, and that doesn't make him a good speaker, it means he's a big fish in a little pond. Most of what he talks about has been addressed by academically superior philosophers or experts of other disciplines. He often uses incomplete models for areas outside his experience and that results in incorrect and incomplete analysis. The list goes on...
Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is impossible, because your boot straps are below your hands. That ideology is a myth.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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He sounds like the offspring of Kermit the frog and Don Cherry
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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pixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
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Yeah, Peterson isn't nearly the saviour to young men all the hype makes him out to be.
He has some decent common sense advice, but beyond that there isn't a lot of truth in his overall philosophy to life's problems as it relates to society at large.
His ideas seem great at a casual glance because its the same kind of short sited self help that has just been repackaged over and over and over.. its really not any different from thousands of other self help programs that you can get on amazon.com
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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods] 2
#26364972 - 12/06/19 12:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don’t know much about Peterson, but I encounter his fans online from time to time. As far as I can tell, he’s just some guy who tells neckbeards to clean their room, and they’re like, “oh wow, yeah, my mom has told me this 50,000 times but hearing from a dude who owns libtards really makes it sink in!” I mean, good for him if he’s helping people live better lives or whatever, but most of his acolytes seem like dumbasses. No disrespect meant to anyone in this thread, you guys are great haha.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
christopera said: Most of what he talks about has been addressed by academically superior philosophers or experts of other disciplines.
Perhaps you, or others that are chiming in, could offer some of these superior alternatives?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 56 minutes
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He’s just another self help guru with cultlike folliwers
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/06/19 01:22 PM)
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CountHTML
Stranger


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Id argue he's not only unhappy, but angry.
I'm essentially neutral on Peterson and I know he's helped a lot of people which is objectively a good thing.
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pixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: CountHTML] 2
#26365107 - 12/06/19 01:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here are a few vids which provide solid critiques of JP while also not completely slamming him, if you are actually interested in critiques against his work and what he presents himself as.
I could type all this out, but these already make the points
Somewhere To Belong: Jordan Peterson + Alienation | Very Important Docs Cultivated Identity 2 (Karl Marx's Theory of Alienation & Jordan Peterson)
What Jordan B. Peterson is Doing
Why it Matters Jordan Peterson is in Rehab
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
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I watched all of his episodes with Joe Rogan.
He's big in Canada given that he's from here.
I like him.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: Patlal]
#26365224 - 12/06/19 02:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Of course you do
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 1 hour, 1 minute
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Re: Jordan Peterson [Re: koods]
#26365451 - 12/06/19 04:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why wouldn't I?
It's great philosophical entertainment.
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