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Kazoo_bard
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What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar?
#26364637 - 12/06/19 09:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm about to do my first agar batches/pours this weekend, and I'm just curious what the pros look for as gokd signs in their agar. Lime, what part do you choose to cut out and use to propagate? I know to go for the rhizomorphic growth that looks like thicker strings, and are clean, but beyond that, is there some telltale signal that you look for? Just the part farthest from the innocent swab path since that would be the fastest growing? The thickest strands? Is there a magic sign that you learn to look for as an I dictator of quality? It's one thing to know the basic principles, but I would like to get some of the more experiential knowledge that comes from doing it over and over. The little tips and tricks that go beyond the actual procedure for agar.
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Morel Guy
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26364663 - 12/06/19 10:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Never did agar. Read up on it and watched vids, bought supplies for Morels.
You want rhizo myc, a wedge from the growing edge. Myc is most active and viable at it's growing edge, the exterior.
Do not fully colonize a plate.
Good rhizo myc is only oje sign of good genetics. Some have had good fruits from fuffy. This was not advised in my studies. The best way is to select fruits and clone. Look at all traits and select from there.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Morel Guy]
#26364708 - 12/06/19 10:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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T1: clean growth transferred as soon as there is enough to transfer. T2:clean growth as soon as there is enough for a couple/ multiple transfers. T3: I start to let it grow a bit looking for any separation but still take more than 1 transfer if needed. T4:I'm looking for fast rhizzos T5: I'm letting these fuckers grow out and putting to grain and gonna clone
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26364729 - 12/06/19 10:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's an awsome breakdown, but what's separation? Just separate thick strands of rhizomorph? Or is there a different kind of separation for when even the thin fluffy stuff grows apart? Would that be a sign of infection in between or something L g? Sorry for the storm of questions, but I'm a thirsty bitch for knowledge and you guys have what I want haha.
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26364733 - 12/06/19 10:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You may see some rhizzos form ECT. When you swipe spores it often just looks whispy and to.entose because it's just strains on top of strains mixed with strains
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26364786 - 12/06/19 11:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Should I avoid swiping with an inoculation loop then or is it just a matter of taking enough transfers to get the rhizos to start popping up properly?
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26364797 - 12/06/19 11:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Swipe an s pattern with your loop and just focus on clean growth. The rest will become apparent as you go
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26364802 - 12/06/19 11:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you! I kind of figured it would make itself pretty evident, but the stronger my pool of info is going into the project, the better my chances of success and the quicker I will pick up and understand the things I learn hands on. Other than splotches of discoloration, is there any sneaky signs of problems I should be on the lookout for? Myc growing weird around patches that look normal or something?
Edited by Kazoo_bard (12/06/19 11:22 AM)
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26364809 - 12/06/19 11:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah you may see some odd stuff just don't be afraid to ask and post pics. Good lighting and rested elbows when taking pics of plates
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26364816 - 12/06/19 11:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Will do, this is probably a question that's been asked a million times, but since I'm here asking about agar plates, once I am done with a plate, is there a way to clean and reuse them? Are there specific plates i could buy if i want to just re use them so I can avoid a constant inflow of petri dishes?
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26364823 - 12/06/19 11:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Get glass, the plastic ones can just be tossed. You could get some for no pours that are pp5
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kmacmo
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26364929 - 12/06/19 12:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey there, agar is fun and interesting. I'm pretty new at it also but just my lil bit of advice start with some plastics till you get the hang of it... Personally I haven't moved onto glass yet but once you master your technique won't loose very many glass plates to your own errors just my thinking of it 
Also two things I learned on my first attempt was to plan in your head how your gonna position your plates and move them about in the SAB or flow hood before the pour and let them cool down properly before picking them up to seal them... I learned the hard way lol agar all over the dish and they set so horribly messy not use able at all.
Quote:
cronicr said: T1: clean growth transferred as soon as there is enough to transfer. T2:clean growth as soon as there is enough for a couple/ multiple transfers. T3: I start to let it grow a bit looking for any separation but still take more than 1 transfer if needed. T4:I'm looking for fast rhizzos T5: I'm letting these fuckers grow out and putting to grain and gonna clone
Just a question to you oh great one, do you see rhizo growth before T4 at all? I have quite a few plates at different stages some on T3 but they all look fluffy kinda and no rhizo growth just wandering if I should further transfer and hopefully see some rhizo :P
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A.k.a
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kmacmo]
#26364959 - 12/06/19 12:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think rhizo is part gene part nute concentration. I had a bunch of rhizo on my first plates.
So idk if this is well known, I’m sure it is but it was new to me. The other day I was holding a plate to the light and saw what looked like myc patterns only very faint and on what looked like empty agar without the backlight.
Today it is all cobweb. It’s amazing the stuff that’s just dormant everywhere. I took two tissue samples off day or two old stumps on a tub I had harvested. One cobweb and one trich both almost immediately. Yet the tubs are fine on the way to another flush.
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LAGM2020     
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: A.k.a]
#26364975 - 12/06/19 12:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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U certainly can see rhizzo growth before t4 it's just not something I worry about. Lots of factors at play like how much spores you put down how freh/ viable they are ECT.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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nevereataamanita


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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365134 - 12/06/19 01:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: T1: clean growth transferred as soon as there is enough to transfer. T2:clean growth as soon as there is enough for a couple/ multiple transfers. T3: I start to let it grow a bit looking for any separation but still take more than 1 transfer if needed. T4:I'm looking for fast rhizzos T5: I'm letting these fuckers grow out and putting to grain and gonna clone
I'm sorry if this sounds dumb but since you were so specific (I love it) I have a specific question. I assume the T1 description is for clean growth from your first plate (germ or clone). Does it then follow that the T5 description means you typically make your fifth transfer (from your T4 plate) direct to grain?
-------------------- My LAGM 2020 Journal
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Kmacmo
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: A.k.a]
#26365151 - 12/06/19 02:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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What ammount of agar/lme (or what you use) did you use? Maybe I can try more nutrient and see some rhizo, I use 20agar/20g lme and some red food colouring.
Do you have some pictures of your plates? Would be interesting to see and compare :P I fear some of mine might have some Mold too but it's hard to tell it apart from the white mycelium
Quote:
cronicr said: U certainly can see rhizzo growth before t4 it's just not something I worry about. Lots of factors at play like how much spores you put down how freh/ viable they are ECT.
Would you say using a loop to inoculate would be best to get the least ammont of spores on the plate? I guess less spores less genes and you'll be able to see the different sectors better?
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Edited by Kmacmo (12/06/19 02:05 PM)
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kmacmo]
#26365235 - 12/06/19 02:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nevereataamanita said:
Quote:
cronicr said: T1: clean growth transferred as soon as there is enough to transfer. T2:clean growth as soon as there is enough for a couple/ multiple transfers. T3: I start to let it grow a bit looking for any separation but still take more than 1 transfer if needed. T4:I'm looking for fast rhizzos T5: I'm letting these fuckers grow out and putting to grain and gonna clone
I'm sorry if this sounds dumb but since you were so specific (I love it) I have a specific question. I assume the T1 description is for clean growth from your first plate (germ or clone). Does it then follow that the T5 description means you typically make your fifth transfer (from your T4 plate) direct to grain?
YESQuote:
Kmacmo said: What ammount of agar/lme (or what you use) did you use? Maybe I can try more nutrient and see some rhizo, I use 20agar/20g lme and some red food colouring.
Do you have some pictures of your plates? Would be interesting to see and compare :P I fear some of mine might have some Mold too but it's hard to tell it apart from the white mycelium
Quote:
cronicr said: U certainly can see rhizzo growth before t4 it's just not something I worry about. Lots of factors at play like how much spores you put down how freh/ viable they are ECT.
Would you say using a loop to inoculate would be best to get the least ammont of spores on the plate? I guess less spores less genes and you'll be able to see the different sectors better?
 8 grams of brf 10 to 12 grams of agar for every 500 mls of water and loops are perfect for spores
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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A.k.a
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365243 - 12/06/19 02:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You mix the brf into the water? Does it need to be strained or anything? I have a bag left over from the three pf jars I made before going to shoeboxes.
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LAGM2020     
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Nikoyo
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365247 - 12/06/19 02:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: U certainly can see rhizzo growth before t4 it's just not something I worry about. Lots of factors at play like how much spores you put down how freh/ viable they are ETC.
couldn't agree with this more, hell Ive had plenty of cultures on agar be super rizo at early transfers then turn tom. for every transfer after even with varying nute levels to try and get it to turn rizo again.
-------------------- Gettin back to work
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Nikoyo]
#26365267 - 12/06/19 03:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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i mix the brf and agar then add cold water stir then heat it up
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365372 - 12/06/19 03:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you cronicr for the heaps of great info. Is brf totally interchangeable with light malts or is that something you do a little off the common path? And thanks for all the patience with us noobs asking a million questions haha One more thing I'm curious about is that I've heard people talk about agar on here as if no pour is the easy noob friendly way to start, but that for best and cleanest results you want to use poured dishes. Are dishes that much better than no pour or is that a bit of a misconception? Kind of like how a lot of people (myself included) go in thinking PF cakes are the easiest way, but in reality monos are just as easy or easier.
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A.k.a
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26365405 - 12/06/19 04:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just started agar last week and poured my own. It’s very easy and I got no contams using the SAB which was my main concern.
Plus you have great visibility compared to the no pours I’ve seen, unless you’re buying pre poured dishes which would get expensive fast.
I’m not even a week in and already ordered a case of dishes cuz I can tell I’ll go through them waaaaay faster than I expected.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (12/06/19 04:13 PM)
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: A.k.a]
#26365437 - 12/06/19 04:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have like 90 plates right now, plan on ordering a few batches of glass at a time to get a permanent stock.
Does an exacto knife/ hobby knife work as good as a scalpel for working with/taking agar wedges?
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A.k.a
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26365445 - 12/06/19 04:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oooh I always think about getting some glass every time I’m on amazon they suggest them for me.
I think an x-acto would be fine I’ve seen a lot of the experienced guys here using them and it’s basically the same as a scalpel.
I got forceps and tweezers too they’ve come in handy for holding things, especially when i wanted to cut myc off the side of a shoebox to put on a plate.
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LAGM2020     
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Samiam76
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: A.k.a]
#26365466 - 12/06/19 04:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I ordered the case too. It seems I need another 20 every week. I'm having more fun just transferring to new dishes and watching it take off.
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26365475 - 12/06/19 04:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kazoo_bard said: Thank you cronicr for the heaps of great info. Is brf totally interchangeable with light malts or is that something you do a little off the common path? And thanks for all the patience with us noobs asking a million questions haha One more thing I'm curious about is that I've heard people talk about agar on here as if no pour is the easy noob friendly way to start, but that for best and cleanest results you want to use poured dishes. Are dishes that much better than no pour or is that a bit of a misconception? Kind of like how a lot of people (myself included) go in thinking PF cakes are the easiest way, but in reality monos are just as easy or easier.
Yeah you can use any recipe you want. The whole pour vs no pour is kinda meh...pouring is just as easy and the transfers are easy to see but no pours are just as easy to use and can be done so it's just as easy to see...all preference
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365623 - 12/06/19 06:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gotcha, so it's not like one is the elite better version. It seems like the main advantage of plates would be their small size then. You can get hella stacks of petri dishes in the same space as those Tupperware no pours I've seen. And I'm sure you've played around with your ratios quite a bit, I plan on doing the same anyway, but out of curiosity, what does changing the ratio of notes to agar do? Does more lme, mean faster growth but more contam risk? I know using more agar makes it firmer, but what does that really mean in terms of myc growth and transfers? Is it easier for softer agar to go to grain since stuff can press in easier? Just want to pick your brain before I start my own dicking around and note taking haha. I have a few journals ready for different aspects of what's about to come.
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26365658 - 12/06/19 06:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You will get more ropey growth with less nutrients and more tomentose growth with more. Less nutrients means it's travels more / reaches to find food
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kazoo_bard
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365695 - 12/06/19 06:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's the exact kind of thing I was hoping to learn! That's huge, thank you. Any idea what kind of difference hard vs soft agar makes?
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cronicr



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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
#26365699 - 12/06/19 06:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Soft is good for spores but I find thicker easier to make transfers
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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meaculpaUIO


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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: cronicr]
#26365712 - 12/06/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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To me softer make things harder cause it makes them more difficult to lift and manipulate without dropping off
and makes more of a mess
I remember vaguely reading somewhere you could make a slurry somehow with soft agar? whats the purpose of soft agar at all, really.
Edited by meaculpaUIO (12/06/19 06:48 PM)
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Kmacmo
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Re: What exactly do you guys look for when doing agar? [Re: meaculpaUIO]
#26366212 - 12/07/19 02:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: You will get more ropey growth with less nutrients and more tomentose growth with more. Less nutrients means it's travels more / reaches to find food
That's amazing, learn something new every day 
Quote:
meaculpaUIO said: whats the purpose of soft agar at all, really.
A trusted cultivator said to me this is how he makes petris:
Germination plate. 7g agar 10g lme 2g yeast
Transfer plate. 10g agar 10g lme 2g yeast
The reason because spores will germinate easyer on a more soft/wet agar than the stiff agar. And as for the yeast still not sure why people use that.
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Edited by Kmacmo (12/07/19 02:57 AM)
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