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OfflineHotdog from Space
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26363743 - 12/05/19 07:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder why something is, instead of nothing.

It seems to me to be perfectly logical that if you have existence why not just make it all fun and games.

But then I remember when I play Civilization VI on my computer, if I have no competition, I dont bother to play. The competition, wars,death and famine makes the game interesting.

So it would seem to me that the Buddha, or Nirvana, is when you stop playing Civilization, and why do I play Civilization? cause I want pleasure.


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26363752 - 12/05/19 07:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting, makes me wonder if the very archetype of “death” as encountered in the psychedelic experience is simply a threshold at which the mind hits its capacity. Too much, too many impressions. Must be dying/dead. But then you realize you’re not dead, only expanded.

“Nothing” will only ever be abstraction for us. A better word I think is unconscious vs conscious. Even when we die, I’ve always thought that, even through a purely materialistic worldview, that final flash, even if mediated by the brain, may seem to last an eternity.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26363781 - 12/05/19 07:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hotdog from Space said:
I wonder why something is, instead of nothing.

It seems to me to be perfectly logical that if you have existence why not just make it all fun and games.

But then I remember when I play Civilization VI on my computer, if I have no competition, I dont bother to play. The competition, wars,death and famine makes the game interesting.

So it would seem to me that the Buddha, or Nirvana, is when you stop playing Civilization, and why do I play Civilization? cause I want pleasure.





yes, life is about pleasure in the body. but the real angels are the ones who looks at this world in a way like "this seems familiar, i did this before and i will not succumb to pleasure and let it be the compass of my life" those people are the ones who inherit the kingdom of God.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Edited by Bill_Oreilly (12/05/19 08:25 PM)


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Offlineteenagehippie
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26363838 - 12/05/19 08:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Edit: In response to your post on last page Bill.

Feels good when you come to though right? Being thankful to be alive is powerful.


Edited by teenagehippie (12/05/19 08:24 PM)


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: teenagehippie]
    #26363839 - 12/05/19 08:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

its the most gratifying feeling.

but that particular experience, i was kind of too busy picking up the pieces of my shattered self. i remember being in a facepalm position thinking "oh my fucking god what was that..i cant believe it..i CANT believe it" while crying


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Registered: 10/16/18
Posts: 2,420
Loc: GPS signal lost.. Flag
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26364357 - 12/06/19 06:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
man ill never forget that shit. a lot of people say things like they arent afraid to die or they will embrace it...but when you are literally 100% convinced you ended your life by accident theres just no words to describe it. in about 7 seconds i went from feeling so guilty, afraid and convinced to literally having no choice but to accept it. i felt like if i didnt accept it, i would botch it. i would fuck up the dying process. thats why i accepted it the last couple seconds because i wanted to "make the clean break" but those 5 seconds of literally feeling "FUCK I JUST KILLED MYSELF FUCK IT LETS GO" is a feeling and a rush like no other.



Just the thought of that freaks me the fuck out. I've never experienced something of such on Mushrooms. But, I've never taken a dose that I would consider able to do that. Most I've taken was 4.5g and that's still my dose because I'm still learning. I step up the scale slowly.

Also, I'm very much capable of getting lost on these doses. Almost feeling as nothing but a thought.. nothing but a vibration surfing... but I know I'm still "alive"... and that I'm tripping. Idk it's very hard to explain. It's almost as if I'm disengaged & engaged with my body when I want to be.

It's a very therapeutic dose for me

Quote:

Hotdog from Space said:
I wonder why something is, instead of nothing.

It seems to me to be perfectly logical that if you have existence why not just make it all fun and games.

But then I remember when I play Civilization VI on my computer, if I have no competition, I dont bother to play. The competition, wars,death and famine makes the game interesting.

So it would seem to me that the Buddha, or Nirvana, is when you stop playing Civilization, and why do I play Civilization? cause I want pleasure.



If we were to live in this world forever.. there would be no motivation. We would have no purpose. Now, when you give us a short time on this experince.. we try to find pleasure. Things we enjoy doing and doing it often. But, we get sick of anything that's over moderation. Such as work.. games.. shit, even pointless sex. Repetitiveness takes away from the pleasure when you do the same thing over and over and over.

That's why I do feel like working is good and bad. Mostly bad.. but good because it gives us a reason to get up in the morning and serve a purpose.. then getting off to do something we enjoy and look forward to doing.. for our pleasure.

It's a weird rabbit hole.


--------------------
:greyalien:




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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26364454 - 12/06/19 07:42 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Vibe_Enthusiast said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
man ill never forget that shit. a lot of people say things like they arent afraid to die or they will embrace it...but when you are literally 100% convinced you ended your life by accident theres just no words to describe it. in about 7 seconds i went from feeling so guilty, afraid and convinced to literally having no choice but to accept it. i felt like if i didnt accept it, i would botch it. i would fuck up the dying process. thats why i accepted it the last couple seconds because i wanted to "make the clean break" but those 5 seconds of literally feeling "FUCK I JUST KILLED MYSELF FUCK IT LETS GO" is a feeling and a rush like no other.



Just the thought of that freaks me the fuck out. I've never experienced something of such on Mushrooms. But, I've never taken a dose that I would consider able to do that. Most I've taken was 4.5g and that's still my dose because I'm still learning. I step up the scale slowly.

Also, I'm very much capable of getting lost on these doses. Almost feeling as nothing but a thought.. nothing but a vibration surfing... but I know I'm still "alive"... and that I'm tripping. Idk it's very hard to explain. It's almost as if I'm disengaged & engaged with my body when I want to be.

It's a very therapeutic dose for me

Quote:

Hotdog from Space said:
I wonder why something is, instead of nothing.

It seems to me to be perfectly logical that if you have existence why not just make it all fun and games.

But then I remember when I play Civilization VI on my computer, if I have no competition, I dont bother to play. The competition, wars,death and famine makes the game interesting.

So it would seem to me that the Buddha, or Nirvana, is when you stop playing Civilization, and why do I play Civilization? cause I want pleasure.



If we were to live in this world forever.. there would be no motivation. We would have no purpose. Now, when you give us a short time on this experince.. we try to find pleasure. Things we enjoy doing and doing it often. But, we get sick of anything that's over moderation. Such as work.. games.. shit, even pointless sex. Repetitiveness takes away from the pleasure when you do the same thing over and over and over.

That's why I do feel like working is good and bad. Mostly bad.. but good because it gives us a reason to get up in the morning and serve a purpose.. then getting off to do something we enjoy and look forward to doing.. for our pleasure.

It's a weird rabbit hole.





Yeah that feeling is impossible to replicate on mushrooms because what caused it was the intense rush. it was a rush like no other...it was such a digital and sterile rush, so much so i thought it was death. i thought the rush was me dying. i thought injected poison or something because the feeling was just so peculiar and unlike anything psychedelic whatsoever. Its a whole new level. part me feels like i really did die that day and ive been a ghost ever since. thats how convincing it is. the only way to explain it is that IV 4-aco-dmt is more intense than dmt is that dmt and mushrooms are. thats how big of a leap it is from anything i have ever experienced. it was psychedelic rape. psychedelic freight train knocking you out cold. i have injected cocaine and that rush was always the most intense rush until i did this. this makes a cocaine IV rush look like childs play.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineHotdog from Space
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26364551 - 12/06/19 08:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

By the way, is there a way to decrease the bodyload on the mushrooms?

I was totally couch locked on this dose, and the body felt like it weighted 1 ton while i was being pushed down into the sofa.

No nausea or stomach discomforts thought.


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26364579 - 12/06/19 09:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

From my experience its hit or miss. I hike on 4g of mushrooms frequently. Well, during the warmer months. I could always feel them in my legs and slowing me down a bit, but I think once they get the hint that I'm not stopping.. the bodyload subsides.

Now, when I'm in a place where there's a bed or couch, bodyload hits and I end up not moving. I think its because I know I can lay down and the mushrooms know it. I honestly dislike the bodyload to an extreme. Too lazy to even scratch my own nose. Or I know I'm not comfortable but too heavy to reposition myself lmao.

One time I was slouched half way off the couch and just sat like that for an hour. Was pretty much drooling on myself. I didn't pay too much attention to how heavy my body was because the visuals were gasping. But once I acknowledged I was halfway off the couch I finally just let my body fall to the ground then laid on the floor haha.

Shit sucks. But it is what it is. Just have to get past that mental barrier. My ex gf couldn't even pick her arm up off the floor before. Haha.


--------------------
:greyalien:




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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26364585 - 12/06/19 09:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This whole "I died" thing is just.. ugh. All it is, is a marker for who's more susceptible to delusion. It's not a badge of merit. There's nothing positive about describing an experience that way. It does nothing but ascribe a connotation of deepness and wonder that drives people to chase this metaphorical dragon that is this vast scope of indescribable nuance. And this gets tied in to "ego death?" I thought I died, couldn't understand anything.. so I died! My ego couldn't have been any deader! What drivel. My god I miss joe malloy.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Hotdog from Space] * 1
    #26365118 - 12/06/19 01:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hotdog from Space said:
By the way, is there a way to decrease the bodyload on the mushrooms?

I was totally couch locked on this dose, and the body felt like it weighted 1 ton while i was being pushed down into the sofa.

No nausea or stomach discomforts thought.




Lemon Balm tea, helps a lot with bodyload ime.


--------------------


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26365463 - 12/06/19 04:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
This whole "I died" thing is just.. ugh. All it is, is a marker for who's more susceptible to delusion. It's not a badge of merit. There's nothing positive about describing an experience that way. It does nothing but ascribe a connotation of deepness and wonder that drives people to chase this metaphorical dragon that is this vast scope of indescribable nuance. And this gets tied in to "ego death?" I thought I died, couldn't understand anything.. so I died! My ego couldn't have been any deader! What drivel. My god I miss joe malloy.



Yeah maybe you're right, there's a bit of hocus pocus flying about. I've never met a person who has had a death experience on mushrooms.

As well as myself I know personally one other person who has had a death experiences on DMT. It's not a badge of merit nor something that happens to people susceptible to delusion. It's something that happens when you take fucking waaay too much drugs at once. The moment of impending doom, dying and leaving of your body, having to accept you are dead and there's no way back, travelling off as a spirit completely forgetting being a human, then the shock of returning to your body, remembering who you were/are and the wonder and relief that you're not actually dead... then the headfuck that persists for a long time afterwards. It's nothing short of a traumatic experience and in no way something to ever ascribe to. It put me off DMT for a long time, it's never been the same since. I've never been the same. There's some shit you just can't unsee.

Is it an amazing out of body journey into the spirit realm? Fuck no. It's just a hallucination of horror and wonder. But it's pertinent to remember that everything is just an illusion, some are just more persistent than others.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26377762 - 12/12/19 06:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I wonder, does the ego death come when the body feels so poisoned that you absolutely think that your going to die?




In the context of a strong trip, I think it happens when the mental intensity becomes so overwhelming that it feels as though the trip is encroaching on your conscious existence, as though your sense of self occupies an increasingly small space within your mind, and then gets obliterated entirely. The body load and feelings of anxiety or panic that come with this level of intensity can make you think you are dying, but it doesn't have to be like that (you can 'surrender' to the trip before it obliterates you, which makes the process less stressful).

:sunstone:

I found an old post which talks about this. It mentions Grof who has this well known quote about ego death (as he sees it):

Quote:

Grof: Sometimes, we not only experience the sense of personal annihilation, but also the destruction of the world as we know it.....we have a sense of all-pervading anxiety and impending catastrophe of enormous proportions. The impression of imminent doom can be very convincing and overwhelming. The predominant feeling is that we are losing all that we know and that we are. At the same time, we have no idea what is on the other side, or even if there is anything there at all. ....we experience total annihilation on all imaginable levels. It involves physical destruction, emotional disaster, intellectual and philosophical defeat, ultimate moral failure, and even spiritual damnation. During this experience, all reference points, everything that is important and meaningful in our life, seems to be mercilessly destroyed.




:aliceshocker::scaryshroom:

Quote:

Aldebaran wrote: You are right to be somewhat wary of an experience which is described in two words, the second of which is death. Ego death implies the death of your "self" - something that feels like your own death.

I don't think there is one single type of "ego death" or "ego loss" experience; not all of them involve the feelings of imminent doom and total catastrophe that Grof talks about. It's possible to accept what is happening and "go with the flow" and still end up in some kind of transcendent, mystical experience that would fit most descriptions of ego death.

On the other hand, one reason the experience is labelled "ego death" is simply because during high-dose trips it can often feel as though you are dying. OK, so it's some kind of metaphysical death, not actual death, but you don't necessarily know that at the time, especially the first time it happens.

To some extent, this is linked in with the idea of a "bad trip." People say "I had a bad trip, I thought I was dying, I'm never taking mushrooms again." They may not realise that they were on the brink of a stunning mystical experience which would have shifted the trip into something fantastical, mind-blowing and extremely euphoric.

I've had various mushroom trips which fit Grof's descriptions. The intensity would build until it became uncomfortable, and then increasingly unbearable. I would find it difficult to swallow normally as my anxiety levels increased up to near-panic levels. A creeping feeling of dread, guilt and persecution takes over the trip. I feel that I have crossed a line that I shouldn't have. The trip is beginning to consume me. There is some prescence that I can feel coming from within the trip itself. And then it would occur to me in a flash - this is God. This is God and God is pissed-off. I would feel helpless and panic-stricken (especially since I am an athiest). Everything I know is wrong. My world is falling apart. I'm falling into a fathomless abyss of death and hell and torture.

And then I realize that all I need to do is just accept defeat. Just give in. Just accept my own death and plead for forgiveness. And that's when I would feel a massive weight lifted off my shoulders. I no longer feel responsible for struggling through my trip - it is being guided and controlled from elsewhere. The afterlife seems to be strange and psychedelic, but not unpleasant.

Other trips involve a cataclysmic backdrop (in my thoughts / CEV) of disaster, war, alien invasion, endless bombing, new kinds of metaphysical weapons, the collapse of civilization.

As for blinding white lights and forgiveness/liberation, there have been occasions where I've gazed at the light in the ceiling and watched it seem to grow in intensity, with a rapidly increasing sense of awe that this is a sign from God. Psilocybin is certainly capable of producing incredibly intense mystical rapture and wonderment, but when initially encountering this kind of raw power the experience can be very unpleasant - like you are being sucked headfirst through the engine of creation.

I wouldn't say it's "the scariest experience a human can have" - but it can reach uncomfortable levels of psychological intensity that make you desperate to return to the sober normality of everyday existence, and doubtful whether you can.




Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said: The weird thing is...i never feel like i am going to die on mushrooms or DMT. I know in my head i wont die so i dont get distracted by that thought which i believe allows me to go further




If you've experienced this type of trip more than once, it becomes easier to think of it as a process where you are more confident of coming out the other side.

If I can feel a trip is building up to a high intensity, sometimes I say to myself that I'm going to have to "die" (i.e. allow my sense of self to be obliterated and then come back again) to get through the trip, but I understand it's just part of the trip. This idea did backfire once when I started to think "what do you mean die and come back, that's insane, fuck!!!"

I sometimes think of the closed eye visuals on mushrooms as being a kind of view into a realm of the dead, so it's hard to shake off the whole dying vibe completely :uhoh:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26378888 - 12/13/19 10:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
This whole "I died" thing is just.. ugh. All it is, is a marker for who's more susceptible to delusion. It's not a badge of merit. There's nothing positive about describing an experience that way. It does nothing but ascribe a connotation of deepness and wonder that drives people to chase this metaphorical dragon that is this vast scope of indescribable nuance. And this gets tied in to "ego death?" I thought I died, couldn't understand anything.. so I died! My ego couldn't have been any deader! What drivel. My god I miss joe malloy.




I suffered an “ego death” 32 years ago. I had taken an horrendous amount of Liberty Caps. While I was still lucid I was begging for forgiveness from both god and Satan, who were staring down at me out of the sky, like games masters. And I was overcome with sorrow that I was dying; the pain and suffering I was going to cause to my mum and dad. I was distraught. I don’t remember what happened next, but basically I was dead. I existed simply as consciousness in a dark void. It was cold and lonely, and seemed to last literally thousands of years. The following weeks my mental state went into decline and I eventually checked into the local hospital. I was terrified now of dying, because I now knew you don’t actually die; rather, you continue to exist forever without a body in a cold and lonely dark void. And I thought I was going mad. It felt like my mind was constantly racing, and my heart was palpitating. Saw a counsellor for months, but have been psychologically scarred for life.

Back then, I had no idea of mushroom dosage, nor of what to expect on a catastrophically high dose; I’d had a previous mushroom trip with a much more sensible amount, but even that freaked me out. I had done loads of LSD, so thought I knew what I was doing. There were six of us. We all got split up. We all died!

Even if “ego death” is not the best description for the psychedelic space you go to on high doses, but at least everyone knows what you’re alluding to. And it’s no laughing matter. I try to get there again these days, but it very difficult to let go. I believe if I can let go, I can maybe get to one of those spiritual / mystical places that is really therapeutic.

Take care,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26382335 - 12/14/19 10:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I don’t remember what happened next, but basically I was dead. I existed simply as consciousness in a dark void. It was cold and lonely, and seemed to last literally thousands of years.




That's a fascinating description of a very high dose experience. :takingnotes:

Quote:


...and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. (Genesis 15:12-13)





I'm reading a book of short stories at the moment by Matt Cardin called "To Rouse Leviathan". It's weird fiction / cosmic horror with a theme of there being a dark side to religion, some dark primeval void existing beyond even God (that Genesis quote appears at the beginning).

Matt Cardin also runs a website called The Teeming Brain which has some fascinating articles in its archives on topics which often relate to consciousness, spirituality, psychedelics e.t.c.

Quote:

I was terrified now of dying, because I now knew you don’t actually die; rather, you continue to exist forever without a body in a cold and lonely dark void. And I thought I was going mad. It felt like my mind was constantly racing, and my heart was palpitating.




It's slightly bizarre but that mirrors the kind of situation some of the characters face in Matt Cardin's stories. There's an interview where the author explains this idea behind his work:

Quote:


What would you say are the core underpinning themes and ideas in your work?

MC: The horror of consciousness, and more specifically, self-awareness. Intimations or suspicions of something fundamentally grotesque and nightmarish at the core of existence itself. The inescapable sense of being drawn to find a metanarrative, a pattern, a God’ s-eye view and understanding of one’s experience and the world at large, and then of being horrified at the revelation that this overall pattern and meaning are actually hideous and unbearable. That life isn’t meaningless, it’s meaningful – and the meaning is awful.

The fear that God by whatever name, under whatever cultural guise, may be monstrous. The sense not only of horror but of unbearable loss, grief, and despair that accompanies such a sense of things. The related fear or possibility that artistic and intellectual creativity carry profound dangers because they serve as portals to and for that nightmarish primal ontological reality to communicate itself and corrupt or destroy the artist.





:owl:

To give an example from one of the stories, this is from a story called "Teeth" about a picture that pulls anyone who views it into a horrifying black void:

Quote:


...the picture had become the whole of my consciousness, and it encompassed me, and I stared through it into a cavern of measureless meaning whose very essence was a horror.

...I felt the attention of a massive and malevolent intelligence turned upon me... I knew with absolute, horrified certainty that this nightmare abyss was also staring into me.

A buzzing blackness. Darker than darkness. Corrosive and cold. That was everything





:aliceshocker:

The author had a very religious upbringing but this particularly dark element to his writings is strongly influenced by a series of terrifying 'sleep paralysis' episodes that he experienced.

This dark, lonely void is almost the polar opposite of the kind of ecstatic unity which is usually associated with "ego death". Interestingly, Stanislav Grof in his writings which discuss ego death, speaks of a Metacosmic Void, a primordial emptiness distinct from the "Cosmic Consciousness" of the Universal Mind:

Quote:

Grof writes: In its farthest reaches, individual consciousness can identify with  Cosmic  Consciousness  or  the  Universal  Mind  known  under  many  different  names - Brahman,  Buddha, the Cosmic Christ, Keter, Allah, the Tao, the Great Spirit, and many others. The ultimate  of  all  experiences  appears  to  be  identification  with  the  Supracosmic  and  Metacosmic  Void,  the  mysterious  and  primordial  emptiness  and  nothingness  that  is  conscious of itself and is the ultimate cradle of all existence. It has no concrete content, yet it seems to contain all there is in a germinal and potential form.




All very intriguing, I thought you might find this interesting as the experience you describe obviously had a profound effect on you, and it seems to link in with some of these ideas.

Quote:

Even if “ego death” is not the best description for the psychedelic space you go to on high doses, but at least everyone knows what you’re alluding to. And it’s no laughing matter. I try to get there again these days, but it very difficult to let go. I believe if I can let go, I can maybe get to one of those spiritual / mystical places that is really therapeutic.




In practical terms, I think your "catastrophically high dose" was just way too big, resulting in a massively dissociative experience - the dissolution of not just the ego but most of what lies beyond it, or perhaps the separation of the ego from the fundamental "ground" of consciousness, or some mindfucking combination of the two...

I think the spiritual / mystical comes in at the sort of dose which is sufficient to fundamentally disrupt your sense of self, without being excessive. There is a kind of void as the trip overwhelms your normal conscious sense of self, but there is something in that void which rises up into consciousness and is experienced as "ecstatic unity" and so on.

Sometimes people associate 'ego death' with monster doses as if it is the ultimate, final destination possible, but I think you can easily exceed the dose required for a mystical experience and end up in states which become more and more dissociative.

I think the most difficult part of an 'ego death' experience is the period leading up to the peak - everything up until the moment you are able to let go. Beyond that point it is as if you had opened a door into a blissful realm inside your mind. It has been described as a 'radical liberation' where suddenly your whole perspective shifts away from the self, and all your worries just become irrelevant as an oceanic feeling of bliss takes over.

The comeup can be scary, the period after the peak can be exhaustingly manic and euphoric, but in many ways the state of 'ego death' itself is a refuge where you are at peace within the eye of the storm of the trip, from which you 'wake up' feeling incredible.

Here's to letting go...

:raisemyglass:

:nyan:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26382510 - 12/15/19 01:24 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hotdog from Space said:
I wonder why something is, instead of nothing.




Now you're asking the real questions :cool:.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26382581 - 12/15/19 03:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you, Aldebaran, from the bottom of my heart. You are the first person in 32 years who has added any kind of explanation for what I went through. Even today, I have not been able to reconcile my “ego death” experience, particularly with the recent research where psilocybin is given to end of life cancer patients, where the upturn is they lose their fear of dying. My experience has had the opposite effect on me.

I have some reading to do; thank you for the links and information, I will follow all this up.

I have never had a trip anywhere near the strength and intensity of that “catastrophic” Liberty Cap experience. Some features of it, before the void:

The trip came on very quickly. A framed picture of a dragon come alive and floated around the living room. We decided outside would be better. Tying shoe laces on shoes that had grown teeth and were trying to bite you was hard.

Outside it was cold dark nd wet, typical September / October night in Lancashire! The rain was multi-coloured. It was impossible to cross roads as the cars, even though taking tens of minutes to reach you, then sped by at light speed!

Rang my ex to pick me and one remaining mate up. She told us to F off!

So we walked into town and took shelter from the rain in a shop doorway. Sat down smoking a cigarette together we moulded into each other at the shoulder, becoming one person. As one, we watched the firework-like dragons flying through the sky.

Then I lost Glynn! All I did was stand up and look at him; he zoomed out backwards such that he seemed 100 feet away from me!

Panicking, I walked further into town. This was all within the first hour! It was then I had the conversation with god and Satan.

Then there I was. I had an image of me that can only be described as I wa an atom, an electron, a small spark of energy. And the dark, cold (wet), lonely void. Time dilated and I simply existed. All my sad emotions of letting everyone down dissipated. It had happened, I was dead, and fuck me is this it for eternity? There was no euphoria, nothing.

When I did eventually come round, having no idea how long I had been in that bodiless void, there were five or six Asian taxi drivers standing over me, all very concerned. I was led in the gutter. The rainwater had been gushing over me, oblivious to my environment and surroundings; may explain why this void was so cold and lonely!

I suppose the silver lining in this particular cloud, was that I was now convinced there was a god, and an after-life. My psychedlic experiences though have even more persuaded me that religion these days is just as much bullshit as our democracies! Religion is now in place to control us and keep us down. The holy sacrament (translation: psychedlic plant) is only given to the religious leaders; that shit is not for the sheep, the low level workers who prop up society for the few at the top of the pyramid.

I could write for hours about this one experience. It will take me some effort to do, and I want to write it up with good English, so although I can promise a trip report, it may be some time........

Thank you for your response, Aldebaran, you have inspired me to learn more.

Take care,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Aldebaran] * 1
    #26382586 - 12/15/19 03:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

One other thing, and I say it a lot to newbies these days, is: do your Research!
My concern for newbies is that if you get your first dose wrong, it could turn you away from psychedelics for life, and that would be a shame.

Estimates on doseage would put 3.5g dried Liberty Caps as a heroic dose. Now imagine if you will an ASDA plastic carrier bag. We picked enough Liberty Caps to fill over half of the carrier bag. Six of us drank the tea, which was a full boiled potatoes size pan; about half a pint of thick black liquid each. Back then, we only had anecdotal information, which came from your shady clueless mates! We never took the insane amount as a badge of honour, we were literally ignorant of what was going to happen. And it wasn’t fear that has stood with me for life; it was the sorrow and sadness at the pain I was causing for my family, then the loss of any interaction with any other consciousness for eternity, I.e. sadness and loneliness of existing.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Take care all, do your research, and stay safe.
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26382874 - 12/15/19 08:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, I need to read some Lovecraft: it feels chillingly familiar. In fact, I’m getting shivers down my spine!

From Matt Cardin’s Article on Teeth:


The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little. But some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

— H.P. Lovecraft, “The Call of Cthulhu“   


Take care,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: High dose of magic mushroom feels like death [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26384230 - 12/15/19 10:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The rain was multi-coloured




I'll swap you an ego death for some dragons and multi-coloured rain :smile: But then again, the best visuals always seem to materialize just before the trip becomes unpleasantly intense...

Quote:

Wow, I need to read some Lovecraft: it feels chillingly familiar. In fact, I’m getting shivers down my spine!




Oh yes, I am a big fan of Lovecraft! When I started reading his stories I thought "aha, here is someone who is describing the atmosphere of my mushroom trips!".

I like the way he cultivates a sense of awe in his stories, where the horrors are not just frightening to the protagonists but show them a glimpse of the beyond.

:owl:

You can probably find all the stories online but for an introduction to his work I particularly like the order of the stories in this book: The Whisperer in Darkness: Collected Stories (Wordsworth Mystery & the Supernatural) which is only £2.69 on Amazon. There are two more books by Lovecraft published in the Wordsworth Mystery & Supernatural series which together include just about every story he wrote.

I think the sequence of Dagon - The Nameless City - The Hound - The Festival - The Call of Cthulhu gives an excellent introduction because the stories are short, atmospheric and express some of his key ideas. I particularly like "The Nameless City" because it has a strange trippy vibe to it.

Although most of my posts seem to end up being about ego death, when I trip the kind of vibe I am after is more Lovecraftian and weird, a kind of solid 'level 4' trip where you see strange things in your CEV and get that sense of awe that there is maybe something lurking there in the trip, something from beyond. I want to visit the nameless cities and gaze into the abyss, without necessarily getting devoured by it...

:cthulhu:


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