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OfflineCNS
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Mistaking Frostiana for Persicina.
    #26361716 - 12/04/19 07:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

https://files.shroomery.org/files/08-47/704277836-frostian2.jpg
(From the Amanita identification guide)


https://www.mushroomexpert.com/images/kuo5/amanita_muscaria_persicina_02.jpg


unless I am missing something it seems to me even without taking into account morphological variatons comparing these 2 photos is almost useless when we consider that in regards to persicina.

Remnants of the universal veil on the vasal bulb as concentric rings are fragile or absent.[wiki]

The characteristic fuzzy rings above the base of the stipe are weakly structured; they are often not notable in collected samples.

and when we consider for frostiana

The base of the stipe generally bears a collar around the base of the stipe, but this collar is not always present.

here is one more picture of frostiana this one from wikipedia this picture clearly showing a collared specimen bearing rings though the rings are not concentric.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Amanita_frostiana_%28Peck%29_Sacc_750397.jpg/686px-Amanita_frostiana_%28Peck%29_Sacc_750397.jpg


in conclusion on the shroomery guide regarding persicina the following is careless unless I am missing something here, "The characteristic fuzzy rings". should read "The charecteristic concentric rings"


and under frostiana it should read The base of the stipe doesn't bear concentric rings that are typical of the fly agaric instead "insert description of the base of collared and uncollared specimens of frostiana"

one could argue that since by eye one can not always distinguish the two species this fact should be noted and emphasized, even though it is asserted the species does not contain amatoxins.

edit: I would offer a distinguishing feature between the to being the absence of rings above the bulb on frostiana but not only is this inherently unreliable considering both species can be missing their rings but it appears frostianas shaggyness above the bulb could easily be mistaken as the sometimes "poorly formed" concentric rings of persicina.


Edited by CNS (12/04/19 10:54 PM)


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Invisiblebreeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,120
Loc: mass
Re: The ease of mixing up Frostiana and Persicina. [Re: CNS]
    #26361733 - 12/04/19 07:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Very good points that show the importance of being very cautious with Amanitas. It seems like persicina tends to be whiter with less of a yellowish hue than frostiana, but I'm not sure how reliable that is.


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OfflineCNS
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Re: The ease of mixing up Frostiana and Persicina. [Re: breeg89]
    #26361746 - 12/04/19 07:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes most of the few photos(appears to be an uncommon mushroom compared to muscaria) I found of it also showed a yellow hue though that didmt seem to be exclusive, see: for example, the photo of frostiana in the amanita identification guide i reference above.

even if it turns out to not be frostiana shown in the guide, how long until a morphology of frostiana appears as the photo above does.  Has a species ever demonstrated being able to morph from yellow to white before?


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Edited by CNS (12/04/19 08:56 PM)


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OfflineCNS
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Re: The ease of mixing up Frostiana and Persicina. [Re: CNS]
    #26361879 - 12/04/19 09:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

frostiana

The edibility of this species is still doubted. It is considered poisonous and it is chancy to term it edible. High caution must be taken until the edibility of this species is clarified.[3][9]


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Edited by CNS (12/04/19 09:39 PM)


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OfflineCNS
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Re: The ease of mixing up Frostiana and Persicina. [Re: CNS]
    #26361887 - 12/04/19 09:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

https://mycotopia.net/topic/92091-amanita-frostiana/

looking through this thread is making me wonder if these 2 species could be more similar visually than I previously though.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13733302

A user  wondering if flaviconia is poisonous becomes his own test subject, claims to have no inebriation with flavacoinia, he fails to mention if he suspects them to contain muscarine.

Finally a picture of specimens presumed to be persicina showing a moderate absence of concentric rings, and poorly defined concentric rings.


https://mycotopia.net/topic/79440-amanita-muscaria-var-persicina/?hl=persicina


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Edited by CNS (12/04/19 10:57 PM)


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