Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Extract   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26363021 - 12/05/19 01:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
I had hard times with bad trips for years after first getting into psychedelics. They were not valuable bad trips because I didn't understand what was happening. None of this harm reduction type thought ever helped. The only thing that helped was when I finally learned and accepted that I had some hard work to do, within the psychedelic sessions themselves.




I wanted to expand on this a bit because I don't think I've expressed this part very well yet.

Some people that experience bad trips are the ones that need the healing aspect of psychedelic usage. The reason they are experiencing bad trips is because they need the healing. Continued usage of psychedelics will likely result in more bad trips until this stuff is dealt with.

Dealing with your problems without psychedelics is an option, but the reason psychedelics have gained so much attention in regards to healing is because they are such powerful healing medicine. You can potentially accomplish years worth of therapy in just a few sessions. Some people are also heavily resistant to normal therapy due to psychological defenses, which psychedelics completely break through.

This idea of that people in bad places in their life or who are depressed, etc, shouldn't trip is not telling people the truth about the power of psychedelics to heal exactly these problems.

Whereas PsychedSubstance's recent video about bad trips and how he wish he could tell his past self to get his shit together before tripping is like the opposite of what I would tell my past self.

I would tell my past self that the bad trips are my issues trying to surface so they can be examined, how to use the psychedelics to access the things that needed to be worked through, how to use the trips to heal. That is true harm reduction, IMO.


Edited by pixelpopper (12/05/19 01:26 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldebaran
Psilo-Scribe
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Altered States of Europe
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26363038 - 12/05/19 01:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tomorrow will be 3.8g dry B+, and the house to myself, and my two labradors. Oh and Shpongle




Enjoy your trip, and thanks for the kind words :mushroom2:

:awecid:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,652
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: Aldebaran] * 1
    #26363042 - 12/05/19 01:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Its normal to feel some anxiety going into a trip.  But "fear of letting go", in my mind, is resisting the trip and trying to hold onto your ego identity as much as possible as you feel the effects of the psychedelic building.  This is where people can panic.  But ultimately if you go high enough you reach a point where you are going to lose your ego no matter what.  If you keep going back to that point then eventually you realize that resistance is futile and over time it becomes easier to roll with the trip and go with its flow into ego death without the resistance.  When I'm going deep into a trip that is strong, often I feel a sense of deja vu that "I've been here before" and "I know this place" and that gives me comfort to face whatever is coming because I've done it before.


--------------------
IT WAS ALL A DREAM


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldebaran
Psilo-Scribe
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Altered States of Europe
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26363056 - 12/05/19 01:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I'm simply expressing my thoughts around a culture that doesn't seem to ever look at the importance of shadow work in relation to psychedelic usage




What does "shadow work" actually mean? It doesn't return much in a search and I've not heard the term used before, but it sounds intriguing. Your initial post mentions "confronting pain, fear, trauma, and cleansing them via experiencing" but is there some particular technique for doing this?


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


Edited by Aldebaran (12/05/19 01:54 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26363146 - 12/05/19 02:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
What does "shadow work" actually mean? It doesn't return much in a search and I've not heard the term used before, but it sounds intriguing. Your initial post mentions "confronting pain, fear, trauma, and cleansing them via experiencing" but is there some particular technique for doing this?





Well the shadow is a pretty big concept within psychology, primarily Jungian psychology & the works of Carl Jung.

The general idea as what I'm referring to when I talk about the shadow - its the side of your self that contains all your unconscious drives, the unconscious things that shape your personality, your reactions to people/daily life, etc. Everyone has their own personality structure which is mostly formed in your first years in life - shaped by your experiences with the immediate world around you (generally your parents). Certain things are internalized and behaviours are learned, personality is formed as a way of operating in the world as a means of survival. The way we operate isn't really a conscious process.

Diving into these unconscious areas & exploring what has created our personality is what I would refer to as "shadow work". It often, if not always, involves opening up to past traumas and psychological injuries which are repressed and guarded by psychological defenses.

Pretty much everyone has stuff in their past, even if they don't think they do, because things that create psychological trauma are not isolated to severe abuse. A lot of what was previously considered normal parenting is now known to cause attachment injuries, which in turn create various personality disorders / defense mechanisms which are then acted out through the entirety of one's life.

I don't really differentiate between consciousness exploration and therapeutic usage of psychedelics - its more or less the same thing to me, although there are more defined therapeutic methods.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAldebaran
Psilo-Scribe
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Altered States of Europe
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26363234 - 12/05/19 03:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for explaining that.

I've gradually come to the conclusion that what you are exploring in a trip is to a large extent your own unconscious in one way or another, and what you say here makes a lot of sense.

This isn't the first time that Jung's name has cropped up for me recently (I've been reading about topics such as the role of the unconscious in creativity, another article talked about his 'red book') so perhaps I should start reading something by him!


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: Aldebaran] * 1
    #26363261 - 12/05/19 03:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Jung's writings are excellent, but a lot of people seem to find them too dense to easily read. I love his stuff though. There's also plenty of writing out there about his ideas, and a lot of audio/video media... the only downside is that you may end up reading/listening to someone who doesn't have a solid grasp on the ideas.

Here's a pretty good video I just listened to regarding mushroom dosing and working with attachment issues, figured I'd share it here since I mentioned attachment injuries in previous post. Attachment style is something that has extremely broad reaches on one's overall personality structure, and as such plays a huge role in how life is experienced.

Something the guy touches on in this video that I didn't mention before is one's sense of self, and the ability to soothe one's self. If you grew up with parents where you developed a healthy/strong attachment, then you learn to develop a strong sense of self and have the ability to soothe yourself (calm yourself down during stress, the ability to know things will be ok). The less healthy your attachments were as a child, the less of a sense of self you have. This directly relates to how well you can handle heavy tips, because when things start to get heavy, you are much more likely to freak out if you don't have a good sense of self.

The video also touches on dosing amounts, and talks about similar things as what I was saying regarding higher doses bypassing the areas where you are really doing the psychological work that lingers on your issues, rather than totally losing yourself in the trip.



Here's a couple books that are available as e-books pretty cheap, written by the same guy and exploring these topics.

Decomposing the Shadow: Lessons from the Psilocybin Mushroom
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18145374-decomposing-the-shadow

The True Light of Darkness
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25831302-the-true-light-of-darkness


I just discovered this guy through Sabnock and I'm really digging his work!


Edited by pixelpopper (12/05/19 03:54 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26363266 - 12/05/19 03:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Great topic, great responses as well

My view on psychedelics is that these are not "designed" to be a one-off experience.

Eventually after spending some time with these molecules, you dose too high (or maybe even 'just right'), and you get flooded with all your flaws, insecurities, fears, existential dread, etc etc

That teaches you not to do that again, until you have your shit 100% together. You then may go on to warn other people they may not want to try a large dose because it'll tear them apart.

In a way, that strips them of learning the lesson for themself.

I say lesson loosely, because it's different for everyone and some people don't get anything resembling a lesson. For me, the lesson was "You need to do this again, and now you know exactly the changes to make in your life if you don't want your ass kicked next time you do this. Take it seriously.". I took it seriously, and for  6+ years wanted no part in anything psychedelic.

The research being done is biased and easily picked apart. The conclusions it draws seem sound from my own experience, but the narrative that having a few trips and doing no outstide work will cure your depression or get rid of your fear of death is simply not applicable to most people. It's clever researcher doing what they can to do what's right, which I'm all for as they're playing the game exactly how it needs to be played. Many, many, trippers though have "life changing" experiences on the regular, only to pass with a needle in their arm or some simlarly tragic fate... just check the RIP thread for confirmation.

So basically my opinion is that the substance itself doesn't do the healing, but can indirectly (maybe even directly) provide lessons on how to heal yourself that may hurt to hear at the time on a level you can't imagine while sober. It's not a revolutionary view, many psychonauts stress "integration" as the key factor. Psychedelics shock you into the reality of the present moment, they strip away some of the cognitive distortions and biased thought trains and show you what's always been right in front of you, but somehow hidden.

As it pertains to this thread, I think that as a one off for someone trying to have a good time, dose is an important factor. For a developing psychonaut.... they'll get there eventually. LSD is risky because you can take 1,000 doses in one swallow, but the more natural variety seem largely to be self-regulating.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: feevers]
    #26363286 - 12/05/19 04:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply that psychedelics alone will produce lasting healing, without any real world integration/work.

But psychedelics when used properly can totally tear down walls of defense that can take years to break through via something like talk therapy. The psychedelics allow you to enter into the healing space in a very short amount of time, wheras traditional therapy will take many years and often never actually break through defenses. But you have to actually do the work to integrate.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: feevers]
    #26363303 - 12/05/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Great topic, great responses as well

My view on psychedelics is that these are not "designed" to be a one-off experience.

Eventually after spending some time with these molecules, you dose too high (or maybe even 'just right'), and you get flooded with all your flaws, insecurities, fears, existential dread, etc etc

That teaches you not to do that again, until you have your shit 100% together. You then may go on to warn other people they may not want to try a large dose because it'll tear them apart.

In a way, that strips them of learning the lesson for themself.

I say lesson loosely, because it's different for everyone and some people don't get anything resembling a lesson. For me, the lesson was "You need to do this again, and now you know exactly the changes to make in your life if you don't want your ass kicked next time you do this. Take it seriously.". I took it seriously, and for  6  years wanted no part in anything psychedelic.






And this is also a big reason that I advocate for smaller doses, particularly in regards to when someone is looking specifically for healing.

If you work with smaller doses, you can do this work on a regular schedule. Something like one session per month, more or less depending on the individual. Each session will allow you to explore your self & issues while not being completely torn apart. It will still be a very strong experience. And the cumulative result of these regular, lower dosed sessions will continually break down your defenses and prepare the way for future, heavier work.

Its the difference between using psychedelics as part of a practice, versus blindly just diving in and seeing what happens


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26363403 - 12/05/19 04:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
Yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply that psychedelics alone will produce lasting healing, without any real world integration/work.

But psychedelics when used properly can totally tear down walls of defense that can take years to break through via something like talk therapy. The psychedelics allow you to enter into the healing space in a very short amount of time, wheras traditional therapy will take many years and often never actually break through defenses. But you have to actually do the work to integrate.




I agree mostly, but never been a fan of the "(__) years of psychotherapy in one dose" phrase that's so often uttered

My background is in addiction counseling, and in a handful of sessions or less you can get pretty damn deep with someone and see the changes start happening at their core. I've had people tell me during intake about some of the worst traumas you can imagine from child sex trafficking to being tortured by their parents, just simply having another human to hear you out for the first time can be worth far more than any molecule imo. Coping strategies are not ever likely to stick immediately, but taught well can help someone start building a solid foundation that eventually will become their basis of getting their shit together long term. These are people who often times have copius psychedelic use in their drug history as well, many 'life changing" experiences that brought them to naught.

So many people talking about the incredible benefits of psychedelics barely have their own shit together. One example of many just because he's been brought up here... I remember checking out the PsychedSubstance guy a few years back (I think his videos are entertaining regardless), and him having a whole separate channel complaining about his life and asking for money while he was on his main channeling preaching ego death and integration.

So I think it's easy to over-generalize and overstate the results possible with these things. I believe them to be the most mind boggling and powerful things outside of consciousness itself. I believe that they can be a tremendous part of a therapeutic regimen (and have wrote several of my own including this), but I also think someone's psychedelic use and personal/spiritual growth are so complex and personal to them that generalizations are often unhelpful. Sure in general psychedelics=good, but for very, very, many people, psychedelics are not enough and the "microdosing cures depression?" etc threads that pop up here daily show that the info getting to the public is not painting the full picture and instead maybe being harmful by leading to high expectations that end up unfulfilled, leading someone to toss the idea aside afterwards

I think a lot of people have to work on themselves to even be ready to listen and accept anything they learn during a trip. It was certainly that way for me. Now I take it far more seriously and imo get far more out of it. I think we're largely saying the same thing and I'm just rambling and overthinking


Edited by feevers (12/05/19 04:53 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26363523 - 12/05/19 05:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think we are in general agreement, although perhaps we are trying to find the right words to communicate our ideas clearly.

I definitely see what you're saying in your entire post, and your referring to PsychedSubstance's personal issues is a good example - although again I'd use it as an example of what I am trying to say - he never really has made any deep content about doing the real hard work I am referring to. Any time he touches on insight from "bad trips" its more of a side note, a kind of side effect, whereas I'm referring to intentionally putting yourself through heavy, hard trips as the means to therapeutic healing. And this goes to the root of what I'm trying to express in this thread.

A lot of people have a very flawed idea of how psychedelic healing works, like you've said, and I think that this is largely because of this harm reduction culture I've been referring to. This understanding of psychedelic healing is like its a magic substance that you just take and it provides the healing, and you just have to do it under the proper circumstances, and if you have a bad trip then it failed... etc. Its hard to find the exact words to communicate what I mean.

But actual usage of psychedelics for healing therapeutically is hard work. Its not fun, and is often scary because truly addressing the things that have formed you as a person is scary stuff.

I've done a lot of my own research and study into different fields of psychology and spirituality. And this includes actual current academic / clinical material from professionals, lots of it.

I've developed my thoughts around this process mostly completely outside of the psychedelic community - I haven't paid much attention to this world in recent years, aside from the work of Stan Grof. My insights have come from my own research into what we currently know about psychology, personality, trauma and relationships, and my using this knowledge to navigate my own regular psychedelic sessions.

Now that I am again paying attention to some of the current psychedelic community, I find it very exciting to see some of the same conclusions I've reached on my own being echoed by others.

When I say anything about a few sessions equaling years of therapy, I'm talking mostly about my own experience using psychedelics and comparing to what I've learned about clinical therapy and how it naturally progresses for most people.

I've experienced very powerful results on my own, and its the reason I speak up about this topic and try to encourage discussion, because it has been so profound for me personally.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26363600 - 12/05/19 06:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Another thing I'd like to add...

The idea of "getting your shit together" is also kind of a false notion, in that at some point you will have your shit together. Its a never ending process, and no one is ever really free from issues that need to be always considered/worked on in relation to how you're operating in daily life.

Just because someone still has depression or has a lot of things going wrong, doesn't mean they haven't received genuine healing.

Particularly if a person has substantial issues/personality problems to start with, often these issues can only be improved to varying degrees but will never fully go away. But one can become conscious of them and do their best to work on them, and receive healing/genuine insight in that process.

A lot of professional therapists themselves are very fucked up people. Many times it is what gets them into this field of interest. If you start looking into it, there are so many stories of people being fucked with by their therapists, who are making their problems worse... its actually quite common. And sometimes there are even worse cases of abuse/misconduct by the therapist. I only mention this because it seems to just be part of the entire field as a whole, not just psychedelic therapy enthusiasts. Its also the reason I'm very wary of actually going to a therapist, aside from the fact I can't afford it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26363645 - 12/05/19 06:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
whereas I'm referring to intentionally putting yourself through heavy, hard trips as the means to therapeutic healing.





Wish more people had that attitude, it seems like a foreign language to most. So much can be learned by both having an experience so gut-wrenching you try to fight it, and also by having the same experience and simply letting go. Both teach different yet equally important lessons


Quote:



Another thing I'd like to add...

The idea of "getting your shit together" is also kind of a false notion, in that at some point you will have your shit together. Its a never ending process, and no one is ever really free from issues that need to be always considered/worked on in relation to how you're operating in daily life.






In some contexts, sure. From my experience though, many of the messages are pretty clear in terms of how to integrate. "Spend more time with loved ones", "You can't handle (__whatever rec drug___), so stop." "Value your wife more" etc.

These are pretty easy to either do, or don't do. From experience, I know with reasonable certainty that the next time I breakthrough on DMT or take a huge mushroom dose, I'll get slapped if those things from my last trip aren't being improved upon.

So I didn't mean it in a "don't trip unless your set is perfect" way, but in a "don't expect a completely enjoyable trip if you ignored what came up last time" kinda way.

Quote:



A lot of professional therapists themselves are very fucked up people. Many times it is what gets them into this field of interest. If you start looking into it, there are so many stories of people being fucked with by their therapists, who are making their problems worse... its actually quite common. And sometimes there are even worse cases of abuse/misconduct by the therapist. I only mention this because it seems to just be part of the entire field as a whole, not just psychedelic therapy enthusiasts. Its also the reason I'm very wary of actually going to a therapist, aside from the fact I can't afford it.




There are lots of terrible therapists as there are lots of terrible doctors, auto mechanics, politicians, engineers, etc etc. I wouldn't let that deter you at all. I have a stickied thread in the phys/mental well being forum on how to find affordable therapy, but if I remember right you're not in the U.S.  If you ever do decide to go, my best advice is to make consultation appointments (typically free in the US) with at least 3, and you can pick the one that seems the most your style. mine is super cool and loves hearing about my trips and working with what comes up :rasta:, it's the first question I asked in my consultation appointment .


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26363767 - 12/05/19 07:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
This is a guy who has been making psychedelic videos for years, and one of his newest videos is all about how bad trips are the result of not having your shit together.




:okthatsfunny:  What's sad is that there are people out there actively promoting this kind of crap.  What's sadder is that there may be people agreeing with it and learning how to limit themselves as a result.  What's saddest is that there are still people who believe "bad trips" are just difficult trips, when those have the most potential for genuine growth.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (12/05/19 07:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe lurker
Other User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 1,085
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26363939 - 12/05/19 09:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I really like this thread & replies, I just have one extremely important thing and personal warning too add to this


(To OP) you stated in a response the ones who have bad trips are the ones who need the healing, I absolutely agree and that’s totally me...

however the main reason I personally have bad trips to this moment is because at one point in time I threw any sense of harm reduction out the window.

So the actual reason I have bad trips is because of self inflicted trauma, but this trauma I inflicted on myself happened directly through psychedelics..high doses of dmt & lsd (I.e. 60mg, 5 gel tabs) at way too young of an age (like 17) too be short..

And now I’m healing myself..with the exact same thing I hurt myself and got myself into this place with in the first place...

This is not necessary for anyone, and I definitely don’t recommend it.

As many of you probably do as well, I have a “personal” relationship too these substances, and it was there before and at the bad trips...but I could easily imagine someone without any inkling of this relationship, inflicting this trauma on themselves, and never returning too them too heal..which is what’s necessary too heal from it if that was the “external” thing involved in the trauma.

Because I have experience with the reason people preach harm reduction beyond taking fake substances and physically dying, I lean heavily towards the harm reduction sides of things for people just getting into psychedelics. Trauma is just not necessary and best too stay away from.

But a balance of these two ideas..which we can say one is essentially a reluctance/hiding from self and one a radical seeking/exploration/facing of self, is absolutely necessary for any real “growth”, or better said liberation..imo.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: The lurker]
    #26365026 - 12/06/19 01:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The lurker said:
So the actual reason I have bad trips is because of self inflicted trauma, but this trauma I inflicted on myself happened directly through psychedelics..high doses of dmt & lsd (I.e. 60mg, 5 gel tabs) at way too young of an age (like 17) too be short..

And now I’m healing myself..with the exact same thing I hurt myself and got myself into this place with in the first place...

This is not necessary for anyone, and I definitely don’t recommend it.

As many of you probably do as well, I have a “personal” relationship too these substances, and it was there before and at the bad trips...but I could easily imagine someone without any inkling of this relationship, inflicting this trauma on themselves, and never returning too them too heal..which is what’s necessary too heal from it if that was the “external” thing involved in the trauma.





Good point there. As I mentioned in a previous post, I also had some past experience at a young age with reoccurring bad trips of various levels, which did traumatize me a bit in relation to psychedelic usage. My very first trip produced the highest level of euphoria I've ever experienced, and I then tried to chase this dragon... but following trips often produced a lot of heavy negative reactions, and although I read widely on the available material of the time on how to handle trips, nothing really helped because I didn't understand what was happening. I just tried to improve my set/setting and avoid anything that could negatively influence my trips, etc... but it didn't really work. I still had some enjoyable trips, but most there was still this underlying thing trying to come to the surface.

Ultimately, I needed to learn to work with the psychedelics and allow this stuff to be faced fully through "bad trips" - and this is what has lead to powerful healing in my own usage... something I never would have found my way to if I had stuck to the "harm reduction" mindset.

But like you have said, I've developed a very personal relationship to these psychedelics. The usage of these substances has become part of my own personal practice in spirituality and self exploration/growth.

I feel that this was the path I should have began on with the usage of psychedelics, but instead I started on the path of pursuing enjoyable drug experiences through trying to optimize set/setting.

I agree that this path isn't for everyone, but there just doesn't seem to be as much of a voice for this path for people to find it. Maybe that's the way it should be :shrug:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26365202 - 12/06/19 02:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Users get the most long term benefit out of good trips. Good things can come out of bad trips, but good trips are even better.

The advice to only trip when you're in a good set and setting doesn't just come from nowhere. It came originally from people using in the 60s who realized the importance of good set and setting, and then it was confirmed time and again by later generations of psychedelic users. People seem to get the most benefit out of good trips. Which is not to say that good trips can't involve some heavy shit. If you're using mushrooms, even the best of trips is going to involve some serious stuff.

However, there is a bit of randomness involved, and even in the worst set and setting someone can occasionally have a good trip, and vice versa sometimes even the best set and setting can result in a bad trip. And if you dose high enough, then the meaning of good trip and bad trip changes. But still, the good ones produce the best long term outcomes generally. Sometimes not though, there is randomness involved, but the good trips are more likely to produce positive outcomes.

I myself almost never get anything out of bad trips, I often find them to have been a waste of time, but I get a lot out of good trips.

If psychedelics can produce long lasting changes, then you probably want to take steps to make sure those changes are positive rather than negative.

Also bad trips are considerably more dangerous, and most serious issues encountered by people happen because of bad trips.


Edited by nooneman (12/06/19 02:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: nooneman]
    #26365259 - 12/06/19 03:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think you really understand the kind of "bad trips" being referred to here, nooneman

And if you want to talk about the history of psychedelic usage, well look to someone like Stan Grof who is basically the original therapist researching therapeutic usage of psychedelics. And his methods involve the kind of hard, heavy trips being referred to here.

Beyond modern usage, look to their origins within cultures who use these substances as medicine - its not all about "good trips" - its about healing, which involves a lot of rough experience.

But I think you're just getting hung up on the terms "bad" vs "good", or maybe you didn't actually read all of these posts :justdontknow:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Shadow Work vs Harm Reduction [Re: feevers]
    #26365342 - 12/06/19 03:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
There are lots of terrible therapists as there are lots of terrible doctors, auto mechanics, politicians, engineers, etc etc. I wouldn't let that deter you at all. I have a stickied thread in the phys/mental well being forum on how to find affordable therapy, but if I remember right you're not in the U.S.  If you ever do decide to go, my best advice is to make consultation appointments (typically free in the US) with at least 3, and you can pick the one that seems the most your style. mine is super cool and loves hearing about my trips and working with what comes up :rasta:, it's the first question I asked in my consultation appointment .




I'll take a look - I'm in the US but affordable to me is basically non-existent as I'm living on barely anything right now, and no assistance of any kind, just living on whatever I money I can make which is generally just enough to pay my rent.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Extract   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* shadow thoughts - please help Psiledehysp 671 3 10/02/04 01:16 AM
by Ginseng1
* C.E.V and minor O.E.V on weed
( 1 2 all )
shroomanic 4,674 21 09/29/05 11:12 PM
by Konnrade
* FAQ 49. Do magic mushrooms harm my liver? RoseM 2,852 3 09/13/04 11:34 PM
by TeKn0
* I.V. injection of LSD
( 1 2 3 4 all )
mr_minds_eye 8,650 68 11/16/07 12:57 PM
by boomer q
* harmful effects of mush?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Told 16,314 61 06/16/17 10:47 AM
by 43rd
* Harmful side effects of shrooms?
( 1 2 3 all )
tehborderican 172,305 43 07/12/17 12:27 PM
by DeesKnots
* Concerned with shrooms agrivating shadow syndrome jobus 2,779 17 02/20/02 08:52 AM
by Tannis
* T.V. Shows and Marijuana Gr33nTree73 1,140 17 06/22/06 02:36 PM
by Sintakz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
794 topic views. 3 members, 74 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 15 queries.