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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26374345 - 12/11/19 02:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
koods said: ... And as for seeing a specialist, good luck doing that in a timely manner in the US. Even with good insurance, it can take weeks.
"weeks" lol
it took me 11 months to get approved for a speech therapist even with my agreeing to travel to the capital city of my province for the appointments

How specialized is the treatment?
I’m talking about 4 weeks to see a gastroenterologist for chronic diahrea
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/11/19 02:23 AM)
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26374347 - 12/11/19 02:24 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
koods said: ... And as for seeing a specialist, good luck doing that in a timely manner in the US. Even with good insurance, it can take weeks.
"weeks" lol
it took me 11 months to get approved for a speech therapist even with my agreeing to travel to the capital city of my province for the appointments

How specialized is the treatment?
voice feminization, am not sure how specialized that constitutes
but past referals to rhumatologists for diagnosis/confirmation of diagnosis (Fibromyalgia) in new province were also months long that is all assessment for long-term non-critical chronic condition tho
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26374349 - 12/11/19 02:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Montréal was like a week or less to get in to see rhumatologist tho
uhhhh, Winnipeg, Manitoba may be the "equivalent" of whatever is the capital of North Dakota?
presume specialist availability prolly has some variation by state as well
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26374357 - 12/11/19 02:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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South Dakota has the fewest doctors per capita. That’s a double whammy. Rural medicine is a huge problem in the US. We import doctors and their work authorization require them to work in underserved areas for a set period of time.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26374358 - 12/11/19 02:42 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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koods said: I mean there are literally church groups that take bus trips to Canada to get prescriptions filled. There is absolutely nothing like that in the other direction. ...
actually, point of interest with this recall Bernie Sanders riding one of these up examining the price of insulin
now, uh, my past month of prescription the bill has looked like: anti-depressants: total 27.43 provincial plan 27.43 patient pays 0.00 titty skittles: total 19.81 provincial plan 19.81 patient pays 0.00 t blockers: total 29.13 provincial plan 29.13 patient pays 0.00
is my comprehension correct that the "total/plan paid" price is the price that US citizens travel up here and pay and even at that point, that price is cheaper than the prescription cost in the US?
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26374361 - 12/11/19 02:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The US excels at treating diseases that cost a lot to treat. We eek out better stats for cancer survival rates. We spend a fortune to keep people alive for an extra year. We are terrible at treating preventable illness. Kidney disease. Cardiovascular disease. The rates in the US are far worse than other western countries.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika] 1
#26374365 - 12/11/19 02:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
koods said: I mean there are literally church groups that take bus trips to Canada to get prescriptions filled. There is absolutely nothing like that in the other direction. ...
actually, point of interest with this recall Bernie Sanders riding one of these up examining the price of insulin
now, uh, my past month of prescription the bill has looked like: anti-depressants: total 27.43 provincial plan 27.43 patient pays 0.00 titty skittles: total 19.81 provincial plan 19.81 patient pays 0.00 t blockers: total 29.13 provincial plan 29.13 patient pays 0.00
is my comprehension correct that the "total/plan paid" price is the price that US citizens travel up here and pay and even at that point, that price is cheaper than the prescription cost in the US?
Yeah I think those prices are negotiated for everyone regardless how you are Paying. In the US, insurance companies always negotiate much lower prices for their customers, and then they pay some or all of that price depending on the plan. We even have prescription clubs where you join a group that has a negotiated price for drugs. If you don’t have some Kind of plan, you pay full price. Some pharmacies have negotiated prices for common generics. You can usually get a generic antibiotic or statin or blood pressure drug for a couple bucks if you look around.
The US government is not allowed to negotiate drug prices for Medicare.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/11/19 02:58 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods] 1
#26374368 - 12/11/19 03:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The top selling prescription drug in the US costs over $5000 for two doses. $1500 in Canada
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/11/19 03:07 AM)
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Tripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!



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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26374950 - 12/11/19 12:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Titty Skittles?
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tripsurfer] 1
#26374961 - 12/11/19 12:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: Titty Skittles?
Estradiol
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26376110 - 12/11/19 09:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
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Loaded Shaman said: Wait, so in Canada, if I refuse to work but get hammered and fuck myself up due to negligence, I'll be able to walk into any hospital and get taken care of with absolutely no bill? .
The same thing happens in the US. The only difference is they send you a bill and you don’t pay it.
Why do conservatives worry about the unfairness of what the bottom 2% get for free? I’ll assume you have health insurance. Where is the outrage about the guy who pays the same amount for his insurance as you do but gets hammered and fucks himself up and gets taken care of with no bill?
yes they always got u fam
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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relic
of a bygone era


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Posts: 5,623
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26376974 - 12/12/19 10:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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koods said: The average family plan costs around $15,000 per year
For the coming year, my wife and I alone, we'll pay premiums totalling $12,192 and our deductible is now $13,500. We'll pay well over $25K before anything but a routine office visit or part of a prescription is covered.
Awesome system, america. Surely that's the best we can do.
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26377990 - 12/12/19 08:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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income brackets are moved through but not everyone in the same generation will contribute the same to taxes throughout their life. not everyone in a generation will every be anywhere near the over 39 000 that some of the highest earners pay for healthcare annually.
https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/sheilamatthen/data_analysis_millennials_and_growing_inequality
Quote:
"the differences in wealth inequality in the top and bottom 10% of millennials is even more staggering at $591,807. For Gen X it was $289,686. Again, these figures are all in 2016 constant dollars, so inflation has been accounted for."
Even if you want to say that all people pay for and consume healthcare an equal amount throughout their lives (Which isnt true) We are paying for the baby boomers. people who will be in the workforce in the 2030s wont have as many old people to pay for because gen x will be retiring and its a smaller cohort.
As a replacement to the Canadian system, I would be in favour of something similar to the swiss system where health insurance is privatized but you are forced to get it. Although I know even that is extremely unlikely.
everyone has the opportunity to start a business. people who start a business can then hire people to work for their business. an applicant can negotiate the terms of his/her contract to the extent that he/she has leverage (which depends on multiple factors including the skill of the individual and the level of demand for the position to be filled) but ultimately its their company. they own it and they can ultimately decide the terms. just like you could decide your own terms if you hired employees at your company. we all have freedom of association and the right to our own property. its great. and there is an incentive to create new, innovative goods and services that increase the quality of life of everyone. because if you can do something revolutionary that people are willing to pay for you own the fruits of your idea and/or monetary investment and/or business plan.
If I offer you a job at my company for $15 an hour sweeping the floor and taking out the garbage and you accept it how have I done anything wrong? how have I earned off your back? its not wrong to make a mutually beneficial deal with someone who is voluntarily selling their labour.
it costs $199 to get a patent application examined in Canada.if you learn how to properly create and submit an application you dont even need to hire lawyer to apply for the patent. if you are able to patent something that brings about a higher quality of life and people are willing to pay for it, you dont need to invest any money at all if you cant afford it. you have that valuable intellectual property. Then you can get investors to give you money to start a business ( you cans ell equity to them or pay them royalties or whatever agreement you come to) or you can do licensing deals with other businesses.
anyone who succeeds in making enough voluntary transaction to make a profit on his/her business after the employees have been payed the agreed upon amount, utilities have been paid for,Inventory has been paid for, etc, etc. should own that profit.
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26378031 - 12/12/19 08:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The US excels at treating diseases that cost a lot to treat. We eek out better stats for cancer survival rates. We spend a fortune to keep people alive for an extra year. We are terrible at treating preventable illness. Kidney disease. Cardiovascular disease. The rates in the US are far worse than other western countries.
the two biggest causes of end stage kidney disease in the USA are type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure. The USA has more obese people than other developed countries. obesity is linked to both type 2 diabetes and blood pressure. Obesity is also caused by poor life style also the usa has more black people who are at an elevated risk of cardiovascular disease compared to Europeans. Its disingenuous to use those factors to assess healthcare outcomes. The USA has the highest 5 year cancer survival rates and the highest life expectancy if you remove fatal injury. The fact that the USA has more homicide and car accidents doesnt tell us much about healthcare.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cause+of+kidney+dsease&rlz=1C1CHZL_enCA742CA743&oq=cause+of+kidney+dsease&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.3431j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+obesity+caused+by+poor+life+style&rlz=1C1CHZL_enCA742CA743&oq=is+obesity+caused+by+poor+life+style&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.6773j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/#ac719312b987
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: koods]
#26378055 - 12/12/19 08:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: Wait, so in Canada, if I refuse to work but get hammered and fuck myself up due to negligence, I'll be able to walk into any hospital and get taken care of with absolutely no bill? .
The same thing happens in the US. The only difference is they send you a bill and you don’t pay it.
Why do conservatives worry about the unfairness of what the bottom 2% get for free? I’ll assume you have health insurance. Where is the outrage about the guy who pays the same amount for his insurance as you do but gets hammered and fucks himself up and gets taken care of with no bill?
thats part of a consensual agreement.
the thing is people arent paying the same amount for insurance some people are paying over 80 times what others pay annually for the exact same coverage based on their income, not their level of risk. is not connected to how likely you are to consume medical services. its based on how much money you make.
for car insurance I can shop around and agree to the terms of the provider I favour. Its a consensual agreement. For medical insurance, everyone is stuck paying into the same system and their contribution is based on how much money they make.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: relic]
#26378091 - 12/12/19 09:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
relic said:
Quote:
koods said: The average family plan costs around $15,000 per year
For the coming year, my wife and I alone, we'll pay premiums totalling $12,192 and our deductible is now $13,500. We'll pay well over $25K before anything but a routine office visit or part of a prescription is covered.
Awesome system, america. Surely that's the best we can do.
My ex who lives in Texas and used to fly up here to visit, ended up needing knee surgery after an injury and is still trying to pay it off, because her insurance didn't cover it
when living in Montréal, broke my arm on the way to work one evening went to a doctor's office, got bounced to a hospital, put in a cast once recovered, got physiotherapy while on light-duty at work then got back to my standard shift didn't have to worry about finding a new appartment due to not being able to make rent and pay off my hospital bill at the same time
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26378118 - 12/12/19 09:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: ... https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/sheilamatthen/data_analysis_millennials_and_growing_inequality
Quote:
"the differences in wealth inequality in the top and bottom 10% of millennials is even more staggering at $591,807. For Gen X it was $289,686. Again, these figures are all in 2016 constant dollars, so inflation has been accounted for."
...
interesting point here, your link suggests that wealth inequality may be showing up as a result of racialized and gender income gaps
Quote:
When taking into account home ownership, the differences are even greater, particularly in income. Millennials who own a home earn more than twice the after-tax income as those who don’t. Adding higher incomes with homeownership, the differences in wealth inequality in the top and bottom 10% of millennials is even more staggering at $591,807. For Gen X it was $289,686. Again, these figures are all in 2016 constant dollars, so inflation has been accounted for.
Quote:
Looking at the two groups of millennials, those who own homes and those who don’t, there are likely underlying differences that made it possible for one group to invest in the housing market while the other group couldn’t. One difference could be the persistent gender and racialized income gap, as mentioned above.
and potentially people who weren't kicked out of their homes due to their family hating them for being gay were able to get a bigger step up than those who had to move off on their own and support their own way
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There are some major gaps in the economic analysis done by Statistics Canada. There is no breakdown in the analysis of gender, never mind equity seeking groups such as Indigenous, racialized, immigrant, LGBTQ2IA+, or differently-abled millennials. It is understandable that this data would be difficult to find, particularly when comparing millennials in equity seeking groups to previous generations. But Statistics Canada failed to even acknowledge that these Canadians face greater barriers to employment, and therefore greater challenges accumulating assets and income. For example, I wonder if the income gap between racialized and white Canadians will continue to widen as millennials age.
Quote:
Another likelier difference, I would argue, is the net worth of their families. It stands to reason that millennials who were able to invest in the housing market by 2016, even when it was considered severely unaffordable, are those who had financial help from family members. This could be in the form of a direct cash transfer for a down payment, but it could also take other forms. Millennials whose families made it possible to achieve post-secondary credentials without student debt, who lived at home longer, or who had financial assistance from their families so they could pursue low- or non-paying internships or training programs in high paying fields would have had an advantage in saving enough of their own money to invest in the housing market by the time they were 30.
some really interesting points about inequality built into the system even without regards for taxation tho
tho not sure if you agree with the conclusion:
Quote:
And this is a key take away from this data: without policies in place to ensure social mobility, such as increasing government funding to ensure anyone admitted to post-secondary programs can graduate without student debt —wealth generates wealth from generation to generation.
as health care is one of a number of important systems in place to facillitate people not typically having to leave their education sidelined
nice link
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26378171 - 12/12/19 10:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The points you focused on arent the data I was presenting. and they arent even data.
I wonder if... I would argue that...one difference could be.
thats all speculation based on the bias of the particular person behind the source.
what matters is the actual numbers that show that there is a difference in income within generations so your point about it what you payed in throughout your life being payed back evenly when you retire doesnt stand.
Edited by BANANA.MAN (12/12/19 10:11 PM)
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26378197 - 12/12/19 10:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: The points you focused on arent the data I was presenting. ...
my first quoted point was simply the rest of the quote you cut down and offered:
Quote:
When taking into account home ownership, the differences are even greater, particularly in income. Millennials who own a home earn more than twice the after-tax income as those who don’t. Adding higher incomes with homeownership, the differences in wealth inequality in the top and bottom 10% of millennials is even more staggering at $591,807. For Gen X it was $289,686. Again, these figures are all in 2016 constant dollars, so inflation has been accounted for.
honestly my favourite part of this quote is them using a similiar 500 000+ dollar inequality marker that was brought in my point about the top income bracket earlier
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: ... what matters is the actual numbers that show that there is a difference in income within generations so your point about it what you payed in throughout your life being payed back evenly when you retire doesnt stand.
is it moral to deny boomers access to advanced medical processes that weren't available when they were paying in to the system?
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: British people try to guess US healthcare cost [Re: Tantrika]
#26378220 - 12/12/19 10:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I had to quit my job over the summer because even with insurance my wife and I were looking at $15k+ in medical bills for an MRI, CT scan and a couple other tests and appointments.
When I quit I got right on medicaid and got everything done for free. I now have no copays for anything even specialists, no deductibles, no monthly payments, free psychotherapy and physical therapy, and I think $3.50 is the most I can pay for a perscription.
Pretty backwards system that I'd end up losing money if I had kept working. Going to miss this insurance so much when I start working again in a couple weeks, there's so much stuff I neglect due to rediculous copays and deductibles.
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