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InvisiblePsyduckMonkey
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Posts: 273
Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: hamonz]
    #26356965 - 12/02/19 10:22 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

What even is an "ego death"? It's thrown around so much that it's starting to make my head hurt. @CountHTML I wonder where you get your definitions, saying it's "a very specific thing".

I've had experiences where I stopped existing as an individual. It was more blissful than hard or scary. I mean if there is no individual existence to worry about, then what could scare me? If this is what we mean by ego death, take more, and in my experience cannabis as a helper plant (along with the mushrooms) can really help take you down this path of experience, especially when eaten and not smoked.


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26356981 - 12/02/19 10:31 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I too don't like that term. Rather just hear "level 5".


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:greyalien:




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InvisibleGK-7
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26356994 - 12/02/19 10:37 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

What is ego-dissolution ? Is that when your body have no boundaries and it serves just as an anchor to reality ?

Weird question. In real life death doen't bother me or scare me. Can this mental state mess with my death experience while tripping ?

Thank you for your answers. Interesting to read. But I think I'll have a hard time to understand the concept of ego death until I experimente it.


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: GK-7]
    #26357025 - 12/02/19 11:12 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Pretty much. tho everyone will have a different definition of what ego death means to them.
for me it starts with language slipping away & then there is what feels like an actual dying process.
theres probably levels to it and it can occur differently on what youre tripping on.
for instance lsd ego death is scarier to me than mushroom. not sure Ive ever actually went thru an ego death on lsd, I always avoid it for dear life, dont want to be sucked in that black hole, feels like total oblivion. On mushrooms tho I can just lay down and accept it.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: mt cleverest]
    #26357084 - 12/02/19 12:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You know when you’ve had an ego death. First of all, you actually feel like you’re dying. The first time it happens, you’ll be convinced you’ve eaten poisonous mushrooms. For me it happens at the peak; just when you think the trip can’t get any stronger, it suddenly ramps up a level. For me that’s an instant feeling of doom! Once though that you’re ‘dead’, the trip becomes much easier.

Don’t quote me on this, I have a terrible memory, but Terence McKenna once said: mushrooms cannot kill you, mushrooms can convince you they can kill you, but they can’t!

Take care y’all
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleGK-7
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26357114 - 12/02/19 12:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
You know when you’ve had an ego death. First of all, you actually feel like you’re dying. The first time it happens, you’ll be convinced you’ve eaten poisonous mushrooms. For me it happens at the peak; just when you think the trip can’t get any stronger, it suddenly ramps up a level. For me that’s an instant feeling of doom! Once though that you’re ‘dead’, the trip becomes much easier.

Don’t quote me on this, I have a terrible memory, but Terence McKenna once said: mushrooms cannot kill you, mushrooms can convince you they can kill you, but they can’t!

Take care y’all
DJ Ed




I experienced all of that. A couple time. But no more than few seconds before it turns in a very good trip.

I can't say for lsd. Never tried it.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: GK-7]
    #26358084 - 12/02/19 10:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

In all my trip I never had an ego death experience. I "died" couple time. I was gone pretty far. But no ego death or that I'm aware of. And I would really  love to have one. Does it has to do only with the dose or there is a way to trigger it ? Or I don't understand well the concept of ego death?




Ego death is strongly related to dose. At high doses your sense of self, your ego, can be disrupted, putting you in an unusual conscious state which feels like a direct connection with a conscious universe, giving you an experience which feels very significant, spiritual and meaningful. It usually requires a fairly high dose but not necessarily a huge one - ego death is not about taking the most you can and having the most extreme experience possible.

As some people have already said, the experience can make you think you are dying, and in some ways it does resemble the idea of 'dying' and experiencing some kind of reality beyond death.

You say you "died" a couple of times, and I read this from your trip report:

Quote:

I felt the universe on the top of my brain, it was so intense, I started to cried of joyce and said thank you for giving my mind back. And at this moment I felt so much love, it's like the universe was hugging me




If you "die" and then experience something very intense and meaningful which feels like a deep contact with the universe, that could be ego death. It's your trip, I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure.

Quote:

I experienced all of that. A couple time. But no more than few seconds before it turns in a very good trip.




The way "ego death" usually happens on shrooms, in my experience, is that you get a very intense trip which takes over your entire mind so that you are 'crushed' by it and have to surrender to the trip, as if you were dying. This can be very scary. 'You' lose consciousness and drift into a different conscious state which suddenly feels blissful, peaceful, like drifting into an ocean of bliss, where you are connected to the universe itself and the whole universe is one big conscious entity.

This state of being conscious without a "self" doesn't last very long - you "wake up" into this blissful feeling and experience profound joy, the universe is hugging you and so on, maybe you feel like you 'died' in some way, maybe the experience is so surprising you think you have died and are experiencing this after your death.

People will have different experiences and describe this in different ways, but I think they all have this feeling of an "awakening" which feels very significant, profound, spiritual. It is really a "wow!" moment when you have gone through this, you feel like "this is it", you have really experienced something incredible or discovered an amazing secret.

If you are looking for "something more" in your trips, maybe you didn't experience all of this, maybe you want something a bit more spiritual, but it does sound like you experienced a large amount of "ego dissolution" if you 'died' in your trip. So if you didn't get the full 'ego death' already you are probably not far away. :peace:


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I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26358222 - 12/03/19 12:41 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What even is an "ego death"? It's thrown around so much that it's starting to make my head hurt.




:busytripping:

It all goes back to buddhist ideas of 'nirvana' and the idea that the self, the ego, is a kind of false construct that obscures your experience of the true state of mind, the one that would enable you to exist in harmony with everything without desires, attachments and so on, enabling you to break out of the cycle of reincarnation and ascend to a higher level of existence when you die...

Timothy Leary recognised there was some level of correspondence between these Buddhist ideas and the spiritual 'awakenings' possible with LSD (or mushrooms) and wrote "The Psychedelic Experience" as a guide to tripping based on meditation exercises in the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

So far so 'far out', but I do think there is something to this. If you are wondering what state of mind could exist without the self, the ego, this is what they say in the Tibetan Book of the Dead:

Quote:

Thine own intellect, which is now voidness, yet not to be regarded as of the voidness of nothingness, but as being the intellect itself, unobstructed, shining, thrilling, and blissful, is the very consciousness, the all-good Buddha.




:owl:

Typically dense and cryptic, but the point about ego death is that if you take a dose which temporarily 'dissolves' the self, you don't just black out entirely, you can experience an altered state of consciousness which is indeed "thrilling and blissful" but is without that sense of self. 'You' are no longer there - replaced by an oceanic feeling of transcendence, a deep connection to a conscious universe.

It's hard to write anything coherent about a state of 'no self' but I don't think it matters that much. This state is fairly brief and you are only really aware of it because it lingers in your memory and your emotional awareness as you 'wake up'. The reaction of amazement is experienced when you come back to yourself, retaining that sense of oceanic bliss and universal consciousness. Now you are back you experience wonderment, rapture, the sense that an amazing spiritual experience is happening.

I am not a religious or spiritual person as a rule, and if I wanted to explain this in rational terms I think it relates to the way your unconscious mind interfaces with your day-to-day conscious persona. I think psychedelics (or the meditation practices of the buddhist monks) are able to bridge the gap between the conscious and the unconscious to some extent, so that the unconscious first looms up as something alien, other, maybe frightening, and then when you lose your sense of self you experience a deep connection with this other state of mind - you could say that part of your conscious self becomes unconscious at the same time as part of your unconscious rises up into consciousness, merging into a deep sense of wholeness.

:sunstone:

There is also an interesting link with the idea of the left brain / right brain. Jill Bolte Taylor (a neuroscientist) had a left hemisphere stroke which resulted in a loss of language e.t.c. and put her in a state of oceanic bliss which resonates strongly with descriptions of ego death. In her book "My Stroke of Insight" she talks about the right hemisphere having a different type of 'boundless' consciousness compared to the left, which corresponds more to a controlling 'ego'.

The common theme here is that the 'self' needs to be suppressed in some way before the awareness of this other type of consciousness emerges.

The phrase 'ego death' was also used by a psychologist called Stan Grof, who also had an interest in psychedelics. One of his famous quotes is this:

Quote:

Sometimes, we not only experience the sense of personal annihilation, but also the destruction of the world as we know it.....we have a sense of all-pervading anxiety and impending catastrophe of enormous proportions. The impression of imminent doom can be very convincing and overwhelming. The predominant feeling is that we are losing all that we know and that we are. At the same time, we have no idea what is on the other side, or even if there is anything there at all. ....we experience total annihilation on all imaginable levels. It involves physical destruction, emotional disaster, intellectual and philosophical defeat, ultimate moral failure, and even spiritual damnation. During this experience, all reference points, everything that is important and meaningful in our life, seems to be mercilessly destroyed.




Ego death can involve both of these things - the feeling of being mercilessly destroyed by a trip to the point where you have to surrender to it as if you were facing your own death, followed by the powerful feelings of bliss and wonder I described earlier. It can be like walking into hell and discovering a door that leads straight into heaven.

Ego death is a pretty esoteric subject. The whole idea of a state of 'no self' is difficult and it is easy to get tied up in contradictions - if 'you' were there to experience ego death then it wasn't really ego death - and so on. Buddhism seems to thrive on contradictions and I always try to remember that 'ego death' is in many ways a spiritual ideal that you are not going to experience in a perfect way on psychedelics. You are tripping, not becoming a Buddha. You are not dying and entering nirvana. The effect is temporary, a glimpse, not a shortcut to permanent enlightenment.

It is more to the point that you get a taste of there being something beyond your usual sense of self, whether you think of it as an encounter with your unconscious, a fundamental state of existence that lies beyond death, or whatever. This feels like an awakening and is a very powerful transcendent experience.

If you are still puzzled, this post contains some more description of what I'm trying to explain, and that post has a link to even more of the endless threads on ego death...

:spiralflip:

There is a bit of a "how do you know it when you experience it?" conundrum with ego death - i.e. if nobody can give a coherent explanation of it, how do you recognise it when it happens? I think if "breakthrough" didn't already have a specific meaning related to DMT it might be a better term to describe 'ego death' on mushrooms.

It is a profound experience, not really a visual one, but something that feels as if you have come into contact with a deeper level of reality. An epic feeling of rapture and bliss comparable to a religious experience, a sense that you have experienced a direct connection with a sentient universe.

If the trip felt like an intense ride into a seething cauldron of raw consciousness in which you died as you were obliterated by the trip, and then you woke up again into rapture and bliss with an immense sense of surprise at whatever happened in between when you weren't there, the whole trip feels like an epic voyage into a transcendent state of existence beyond death, a visit to the matrix, a glimpse behind the curtain, you start to think - what else could this be except ego death?

Don't expect your own experiences to match up exactly with other people's - I think the experience itself can vary and is more messy than a description conveys because you are tripping when it happens. What I've described is a sort of template built up over multiple trips, but not every trip slots neatly into a category where you could easily say whether it was ego death or not - some have certain elements but not others. Also I think the experience of "ego dissolution" takes place at multiple levels of tripping and you can experience elements of things described here without a full-on mind-blowing 'ego death' as such.

As a rule I don't trip at this kind of dose level any more - although the experience is profound I find that the comedown can be a real mindfuck as I try to come to terms with the experience while I am still tripping very strongly. I often find that I end up convinced that I am God, which is OK as a metaphor but a real mindfuck if you literally believe that you are God, and it feels like I am repeating the same trip needlessly. But that gives you an idea of the power of this kind of trip - if you "die" in the peak and then "become God", you are seriously tripping.

:trippindude:

And when you reach this point, it's time to start hunting aliens within your trips instead.

:fearandloathing:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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Offlinedpf0000
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: SFS96]
    #26358229 - 12/03/19 12:51 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Never had an ego death experience from shrooms lsd or synthetic mescaline, but dmt seems to do it every time!!!


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26358463 - 12/03/19 06:02 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
Quote:

What even is an "ego death"? It's thrown around so much that it's starting to make my head hurt.




:busytripping:

It all goes back to buddhist ideas of 'nirvana' and the idea that the self, the ego, is a kind of false construct that obscures your experience of the true state of mind, the one that would enable you to exist in harmony with everything without desires, attachments and so on, enabling you to break out of the cycle of reincarnation and ascend to a higher level of existence when you die...

Timothy Leary recognised there was some level of correspondence between these Buddhist ideas and the spiritual 'awakenings' possible with LSD (or mushrooms) and wrote "The Psychedelic Experience" as a guide to tripping based on meditation exercises in the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

So far so 'far out', but I do think there is something to this. If you are wondering what state of mind could exist without the self, the ego, this is what they say in the Tibetan Book of the Dead:

Quote:

Thine own intellect, which is now voidness, yet not to be regarded as of the voidness of nothingness, but as being the intellect itself, unobstructed, shining, thrilling, and blissful, is the very consciousness, the all-good Buddha.




:owl:

Typically dense and cryptic, but the point about ego death is that if you take a dose which temporarily 'dissolves' the self, you don't just black out entirely, you can experience an altered state of consciousness which is indeed "thrilling and blissful" but is without that sense of self. 'You' are no longer there - replaced by an oceanic feeling of transcendence, a deep connection to a conscious universe.

It's hard to write anything coherent about a state of 'no self' but I don't think it matters that much. This state is fairly brief and you are only really aware of it because it lingers in your memory and your emotional awareness as you 'wake up'. The reaction of amazement is experienced when you come back to yourself, retaining that sense of oceanic bliss and universal consciousness. Now you are back you experience wonderment, rapture, the sense that an amazing spiritual experience is happening.

I am not a religious or spiritual person as a rule, and if I wanted to explain this in rational terms I think it relates to the way your unconscious mind interfaces with your day-to-day conscious persona. I think psychedelics (or the meditation practices of the buddhist monks) are able to bridge the gap between the conscious and the unconscious to some extent, so that the unconscious first looms up as something alien, other, maybe frightening, and then when you lose your sense of self you experience a deep connection with this other state of mind - you could say that part of your conscious self becomes unconscious at the same time as part of your unconscious rises up into consciousness, merging into a deep sense of wholeness.

:sunstone:

There is also an interesting link with the idea of the left brain / right brain. Jill Bolte Taylor (a neuroscientist) had a left hemisphere stroke which resulted in a loss of language e.t.c. and put her in a state of oceanic bliss which resonates strongly with descriptions of ego death. In her book "My Stroke of Insight" she talks about the right hemisphere having a different type of 'boundless' consciousness compared to the left, which corresponds more to a controlling 'ego'.

The common theme here is that the 'self' needs to be suppressed in some way before the awareness of this other type of consciousness emerges.

The phrase 'ego death' was also used by a psychologist called Stan Grof, who also had an interest in psychedelics. One of his famous quotes is this:

Quote:

Sometimes, we not only experience the sense of personal annihilation, but also the destruction of the world as we know it.....we have a sense of all-pervading anxiety and impending catastrophe of enormous proportions. The impression of imminent doom can be very convincing and overwhelming. The predominant feeling is that we are losing all that we know and that we are. At the same time, we have no idea what is on the other side, or even if there is anything there at all. ....we experience total annihilation on all imaginable levels. It involves physical destruction, emotional disaster, intellectual and philosophical defeat, ultimate moral failure, and even spiritual damnation. During this experience, all reference points, everything that is important and meaningful in our life, seems to be mercilessly destroyed.




Ego death can involve both of these things - the feeling of being mercilessly destroyed by a trip to the point where you have to surrender to it as if you were facing your own death, followed by the powerful feelings of bliss and wonder I described earlier. It can be like walking into hell and discovering a door that leads straight into heaven.

Ego death is a pretty esoteric subject. The whole idea of a state of 'no self' is difficult and it is easy to get tied up in contradictions - if 'you' were there to experience ego death then it wasn't really ego death - and so on. Buddhism seems to thrive on contradictions and I always try to remember that 'ego death' is in many ways a spiritual ideal that you are not going to experience in a perfect way on psychedelics. You are tripping, not becoming a Buddha. You are not dying and entering nirvana. The effect is temporary, a glimpse, not a shortcut to permanent enlightenment.

It is more to the point that you get a taste of there being something beyond your usual sense of self, whether you think of it as an encounter with your unconscious, a fundamental state of existence that lies beyond death, or whatever. This feels like an awakening and is a very powerful transcendent experience.

If you are still puzzled, this post contains some more description of what I'm trying to explain, and that post has a link to even more of the endless threads on ego death...

:spiralflip:

There is a bit of a "how do you know it when you experience it?" conundrum with ego death - i.e. if nobody can give a coherent explanation of it, how do you recognise it when it happens? I think if "breakthrough" didn't already have a specific meaning related to DMT it might be a better term to describe 'ego death' on mushrooms.

It is a profound experience, not really a visual one, but something that feels as if you have come into contact with a deeper level of reality. An epic feeling of rapture and bliss comparable to a religious experience, a sense that you have experienced a direct connection with a sentient universe.

If the trip felt like an intense ride into a seething cauldron of raw consciousness in which you died as you were obliterated by the trip, and then you woke up again into rapture and bliss with an immense sense of surprise at whatever happened in between when you weren't there, the whole trip feels like an epic voyage into a transcendent state of existence beyond death, a visit to the matrix, a glimpse behind the curtain, you start to think - what else could this be except ego death?

Don't expect your own experiences to match up exactly with other people's - I think the experience itself can vary and is more messy than a description conveys because you are tripping when it happens. What I've described is a sort of template built up over multiple trips, but not every trip slots neatly into a category where you could easily say whether it was ego death or not - some have certain elements but not others. Also I think the experience of "ego dissolution" takes place at multiple levels of tripping and you can experience elements of things described here without a full-on mind-blowing 'ego death' as such.

As a rule I don't trip at this kind of dose level any more - although the experience is profound I find that the comedown can be a real mindfuck as I try to come to terms with the experience while I am still tripping very strongly. I often find that I end up convinced that I am God, which is OK as a metaphor but a real mindfuck if you literally believe that you are God, and it feels like I am repeating the same trip needlessly. But that gives you an idea of the power of this kind of trip - if you "die" in the peak and then "become God", you are seriously tripping.

:trippindude:

And when you reach this point, it's time to start hunting aliens within your trips instead.

:fearandloathing:



Great fucking post dude. This was a great read with my morning coffee!!


--------------------
:greyalien:




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InvisiblePsyduckMonkey
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26358607 - 12/03/19 07:26 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
You know when you’ve had an ego death. First of all, you actually feel like you’re dying. The first time it happens, you’ll be convinced you’ve eaten poisonous mushrooms. For me it happens at the peak; just when you think the trip can’t get any stronger, it suddenly ramps up a level. For me that’s an instant feeling of doom! Once though that you’re ‘dead’, the trip becomes much easier.

Don’t quote me on this, I have a terrible memory, but Terence McKenna once said: mushrooms cannot kill you, mushrooms can convince you they can kill you, but they can’t!



I'm quite convinced this class of experience is entirely due to the drug war and the bad rep mushrooms have gotten in the US. It probably has to do with an underlying subconscious fear of the substance. I've had extremely high dose trips, and this never once crossed my mind, because I've always grown my own and I trust the mushrooms 100%.

In my most profound death-related experience, I've been taken beyond the veil by DMT, to the Source, or what to me seemed and felt like the Source, or its proxy as viewed from here. A singularity where time, space, individuality, existence and nonexistence, all lost their meanings. I couldn't describe it in any other way than it was a death experience, but I didn't experience dying. I experienced being dead.


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InvisibleGK-7
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26358612 - 12/03/19 07:29 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Very interesting post Aldebaran. And thanks for the link.
I have to admit, even if this forum helped me a lot when I first started. It could also make things a bit confusing about trip level and ego-death. I find tripping more subtile than trip report suggest.


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InvisiblePsyduckMonkey
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: GK-7]
    #26358715 - 12/03/19 08:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Aldebaran you're aware I was being ironic about psychonaut lingo, right? :P Still, you summed the topic up really nicely.

There are various levels of transcendence one can reach on psychedelics. Some I don't even try to talk about because it would just sound silly, and I'm not in the business of founding religions. I've used the phrase "ego death" myself a few times to describe a highly transcendent experience, but it feels weird when someone asks "how to get one to happen". I don't feel like the idea is well-defined enough for the question to be parsed, and discussions on the topic often devolve into psychedelic penis-measuring contests.

I personally differentiate between four fundamentally different "tripspaces": Sensory; Introspective; Alien; Transcendent. This is the first time I put it down like this. During a single trip, one can move between these.

A sensory tripspace is about an altered connection with this world. Partying, having sex or walking in the woods, or whatever. Open eye visuals, strange perspectives, strange significances, spirits and symbols in everything you see. A shamanic journey here on Earth.
To different degrees, it can and will happen on any dose.

An introspective tripspace is going down the rabbit hole of your own personality. Regression, memories and feelings from your time as a child, a baby and a fetus. You may see your internal structure from an external viewpoint, be able to pull out blocks that have lost their use, and grieve for and heal injuries that have gone unnoticed for decades. It's the place to do proper self-healing. In my experience it tends to happen on medium and higher doses.

An alien tripspace is an experience of "hyperspace". A different reality; folding rooms, elves, mantises and spiders, tentacled multidimensional beings, all kinds of alien weirdness. Sometimes it's a journey to a place of nothingness, accompanied by a feeling of loss and impending annihilation (or worse, an eternity as an isolated self with nothing to its name - "there's nothing here, but what's here's mine"). It's a shamanic journey in the other worlds beyond the veil. It only happens on high to very high doses. Regular doses of smoked DMT count as a very high dose for this purpose, if you deliberately smoke very low doses of DMT, you'll see what I mean.

A transcendent tripspace is the experience of a higher root of your own existence. A oneness with God, to some degree. Sometimes a shock over the realization that "wow, so THIS THING is what my regular mind/viewpoint is", as you see world, awareness and self become deconstructed in front of "your" "eyes". A satori experience, or something similar. A profound awakening that you know is beyond the limits of the human mind to grasp in its limited mode of operation. This tends to happen unpredictably on doses from upper medium to very high. I have no reliable method of triggering it. I've had it happen on 100ug of LSD and not on 300ug another time. I've had it happen on 1.5g of mushrooms once and not on 5g another time.


--------------------
Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?


Edited by PsyduckMonkey (12/03/19 08:56 AM)


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OfflineVillageBoomer
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26361434 - 12/04/19 04:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with a lot of what people are saying. I have had two ego deaths. I do think dosage is a factor for sure. I had an ego death on three tabs LSD and an ego death on 1.5oz mushrooms.(trip report in trip forum) The LSD was a long time ago and i was not ready. When i did the mushrooms I was much more experienced and had learned to "navigate" through my trips. I also had a tolerance, which i do believe would effect experiences like what your looking for.(dosage wise) Soon after my 1.5oz I was experimenting with liquor extracts and took too much. Feeling that i was going to blast off into the "void" someone else mentioned, i took control changed space ate food and came down enough not to blast off, though i was zooted for hours after.(in a great way) If you want to experience an ego death make sure you gain a good amount of experience with whichever substance you choose. Also be in the right state of mind. I learned NOTHING from my LSD ego death, when i died on mushrooms I was reborn and am now a new better version of my self with new found love strength and confidence. I would like to note if the 1.5oz was a "bad" trip i do not believe i would have benefited as much as i did. The power of the void of love is unfathomable.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: GK-7]
    #26361456 - 12/04/19 05:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I have to admit, even if this forum helped me a lot when I first started. It could also make things a bit confusing about trip level and ego-death. I find tripping more subtile than trip report suggest.




I think with strong trips, it can be better to experience them in your own way without too many ideas from other people about what 'should' be happening. When I started tripping on heavier doses, it was before I had joined the Shroomery so I didn't read too much about ego death or trip levels e.t.c until I'd had my own experiences.

The trip levels are only a very rough guide, and ego death in particular is a confusing topic. It wasn't a topic I really paid much attention to until I'd had some really incredible trips and thought "oh, that must be what they are talking about." I don't think it's something you need to 'seek out' but when you experiment with higher doses it is likely to happen at some point.

It's fun to discuss trips and compare experiences but ultimately you have to 'go your own way' and trip your own trips without caring too much about what other people say on the internet :peace:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26361626 - 12/04/19 06:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran you're aware I was being ironic about psychonaut lingo, right?




On the internets, nobody can hear the irony!

You gave me an excuse to launch into a long post about ego death, so you only have yourself to blame :wink:

:chesire:

Anyway, I like coming back to this topic occasionally - trying to explain it (to myself as much as anyone else) really gets me thinking.

Quote:

I've used the phrase "ego death" myself a few times to describe a highly transcendent experience, but it feels weird when someone asks "how to get one to happen".




I've found in the past that it was something unavoidable once I reached a certain threshold with mushrooms, like a spacecraft getting trapped in the gravitational pull of a star or a black hole, and spiraling further and further in towards its doom...

These trips were often filled with a sense of impending doom, that there was no getting away from the trip, there was some intelligent force within it that was coming for me (it often felt like God or some sinister alien force).

I think it's something that pulls you in when the dose is sufficient, and you can either surrender to it or be annihilated.

I don't think taking a massively high dose guarantees ego death because you can 'overshoot' and end up in something which is violently dissociative without being transcendent. In my experience it was more a case of gradually increasing the dose from one trip to another (to get better visuals and explore whatever was 'down there' without having any intention of reaching 'ego death'). You get closer to the edge, trying to get a better look into the abyss, until one day you fall over the edge, pass through the event horizon and there is no way back...

:myfaceismelting:

Quote:

There are various levels of transcendence one can reach on psychedelics. Some I don't even try to talk about because it would just sound silly, and I'm not in the business of founding religions.




Oh, go on, tell us, don't just tease! It's not a proper trip unless you start a new religion...

Quote:

I personally differentiate between four fundamentally different "tripspaces": Sensory; Introspective; Alien; Transcendent.




That's a good way of interpreting the different elements of your trips, I like that.

Quote:

An alien tripspace is an experience of "hyperspace". A different reality; folding rooms, elves, mantises and spiders, tentacled multidimensional beings, all kinds of alien weirdness.




I realize you are talking more about DMT here (which I've never tried) but I wonder how you compare this to high doses of mushrooms?

I find with a heavy mushroom dose the trip becomes very internalized - the open eye visuals can occasionally be spectacular but the trip is more about an internal voyage than a radical alteration to the environment around me.

The internal space of the closed-eye-visuals seems to open up into its own weird dimension, and sometimes I get the sensation of further spaces or dimensions opening up within my mind. Occasionally the trip shifts to a more visionary experience, as though I am remembering something in my 'mind's eye' more than seeing it as such.

I do find there is something very alien about the internal spaces that open up within a mushroom trip. Sometimes I see alien things in my closed eye visuals, although I wouldn't exactly call them entities  because there isn't a sense of interaction with them which people often report with DMT, they are just 'there' appearing within the dimension or trip-space of the visuals.

I just wondered how you compare hyperspace to what you experience on mushrooms?

:trippinbawelz:


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InvisiblePsyduckMonkey
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: Aldebaran] * 1
    #26362503 - 12/05/19 08:43 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
You gave me an excuse to launch into a long post about ego death, so you only have yourself to blame :wink:

:chesire:



You're welcome. :laugh:

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
I realize you are talking more about DMT here (which I've never tried) but I wonder how you compare this to high doses of mushrooms?

I find with a heavy mushroom dose the trip becomes very internalized - the open eye visuals can occasionally be spectacular but the trip is more about an internal voyage than a radical alteration to the environment around me.



I have only seen it a few times, but there IS a hyperspace beyond the mushroom trip. The magic of DMT is that it doesn't take away or alter your reasoning the way mushrooms do, and so you experience this craziness with a more or less clean head. Still, there's quite a bit of crazy if you take enough mushrooms.

It's not exactly like a DMT trip, but quite comparable. I am not really an "entity believer", and have not had the really convincing entity encounter experiences on that drug either, but mushrooms have shown me living creatures just as much as DMT did. TBH, one of the recurring themes of mushroom trips, even on low doses, was transdimensional beings seeping into my reality, mollusc-dragon-jellyfish-octopi reaching out from mexican tapestries on walls, threads of living mycelium - or neurons - connecting everything including myself, snake creatures slithering out from the darkness, all sort of crazy.

With a high dose of mushrooms, total darkness, and introspection, I've ended up in a very DMT-like space on multiple occasions. I've been chicken to try it so far, but according to Kilindi Iyi, it the ~30 grams of dried cubensis range, this sort of removal from reality is inavoidable. :laugh:


--------------------
Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?


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InvisibleGK-7
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26364126 - 12/06/19 02:13 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran said:


I think with strong trips, it can be better to experience them in your own way without too many ideas from other people about what 'should' be happening. When I started tripping on heavier doses, it was before I had joined the Shroomery so I didn't read too much about ego death or trip levels e.t.c until I'd had my own experiences.

The trip levels are only a very rough guide, and ego death in particular is a confusing topic. It wasn't a topic I really paid much attention to until I'd had some really incredible trips and thought "oh, that must be what they are talking about." I don't think it's something you need to 'seek out' but when you experiment with higher doses it is likely to happen at some point.

It's fun to discuss trips and compare experiences but ultimately you have to 'go your own way' and trip your own trips without caring too much about what other people say on the internet :peace:




I totally agree.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Is there a way to trigger an ego death ? [Re: GK-7]
    #26364362 - 12/06/19 06:32 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I don't subscribe to the idea that just because someone experiences a particular thing that they are experiencing what we describe as ego death. It is my opinion that for many, these reality dissolution experiences are a reinforcement. "I saw (x) so my ego like, died, bro." If you want to trigger and ego death, then letting go of preconceptions of what you think anything is, is the first step. This concept is entirely separate from visual experience, it is an inner-spiritual reimagining of the senses and self. Wise man say, great sage take substance and nothing happens. There is a reason psychedelics are the flawed path to realization, and a point where they become a detriment to your evolution as such, if you are actually experiencing it. I'd take great caution against advice about these sorts of things, around here.. from myself even. This subject is just so conceptual and metaphorical that it's hard to separate the all the self-flaggelation that goes on from The Truth. Find your own truth, and embrace it.. Just another step to where YOU need to be.


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