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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Lets talk........ Feudalism......
    #26358077 - 12/02/19 10:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

For those of you who might not be familiar.
Feudalism was the most dominant form of government pre 1700's

I am of the belief that we are slowly headed back to that.

So basically feudalism is when:
You pay taxes to a warlord of some kind, and in exchange he protects you with his private armies.

The thing is...
Capitalism really isnt much more than 300-400 years old......
Before that it was feudalism in one way or another.

Whats really scary (And I get it, iv'e been poor my whole fucking life)

People often either jokingly or seriously talk about "tearing down capitalism" or some bullshit like that.

You realize the alternative to that is....
You pay tribute to a warlord (or government) in either the form of labor or taxes.

Corporate feudalism isnt really quite so different except for that fact, that you do have SOME choices

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=%2b65dyUfh&id=2319D427E9332230C76284E63EE08C6CEA674AC9&thid=OIP.-65dyUfhIsQzEmd4ChePnQHaGL&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2f2.bp.blogspot.com%2f-5uPeuw6ikqQ%2fUt9-Op61BkI%2fAAAAAAAAJTc%2fPtYZXM5NLoo%2fs1600%2fbbb9.jpg&exph=1000&expw=1200&q=feudalism&simid=608003635655543137&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0
^
Great diagram, describes our society to a T


^SERIOUSLY................... It literally explains our current society


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/02/19 10:25 PM)


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Buckomcdoogle] * 1
    #26358100 - 12/02/19 10:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Societies take their shape from the way power is distributed.  There are plenty of alternatives other than feudalism or present day capitalism.

Feudalism was about a monarch reigning supreme and giving the nation's land to his buds and family, the aristocracy.

Capitalism arose after the French Revolution and promised fraternity, equality and brotherhood, but aristocracy evolved and survived.  It's defining quality is unreasonable privilege.  Today it's measured in dollars, instead of decreed by a monarch, and maintained by a fraudulent, usury based monetary system.  The definition of it kind of went obsolete.  Im here to say that at the very least, if you are pulling 1% level money out of the system merely by ownership, by usury really, then you are a present day aristocrat.

What we need is true sharing of societal power.  It seems the only way to achieve that is through democracy.  Real, informed, nurtured democracy, where the press doesn't nearly always represent the ruling class.  That and a broad distribution of wealth.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26358107 - 12/02/19 10:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

"Feudalism was about a monarch reigning supreme and giving the nation's land to his buds and family, the aristocracy."

crony capitalism
[crony capitalism]
NOUN
An economic system characterized by close, mutually advantageous relationships between business leaders and government officials."

These things are happening right now, they are just called something different.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/02/19 10:47 PM)


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OfflineLRK
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26358149 - 12/02/19 11:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
...That and a broad distribution of wealth.




So what are you suggesting, Socialism?
If you are history has proved it over and over that socialism don't work and almost always transforms into some form of communism at some point.

Capitalism is not perfect but it sure is better than the alternatives.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: LRK]
    #26358161 - 12/02/19 11:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It breeds corruption, every, single, time.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: LRK]
    #26358192 - 12/03/19 12:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LRK said:
...history has proved it over and over that socialism don't work



As Enlil used to remind us, socialism can't work because capitalist countries would never give it a chance to work.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26358204 - 12/03/19 12:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Wouldn't you consider Russia to be capitalist in a modern sense?

As far as I know they have been backing the Venezuelan government for a long time.

correct me if I am wrong..


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/03/19 12:17 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Buckomcdoogle] * 3
    #26358206 - 12/03/19 12:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

True.  But the United States has been putting a hurting on (sanctioning) Venezuela to punish them for attempting socialism.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: LRK]
    #26358228 - 12/03/19 12:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LRK said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
...That and a broad distribution of wealth.




So what are you suggesting, Socialism?
If you are history has proved it over and over that socialism don't work and almost always transforms into some form of communism at some point.

Capitalism is not perfect but it sure is better than the alternatives.




All Im saying it that for there to ever be a peaceful, just society, power must be distributed broadly, otherwise domination occurs, which I argue is what causes all of our social problems.  Since wealth brings power, great wealth inequality is offensive to peace and justice, and must be remedied.

The scary socialism of the Soviet Union and all that was a pretty bizarre type, it's biggest failing was that it was not democratic.  It was authoritarian.  Therefore power could never be shared, and it suffered from the horrors of domination.  Perhaps is was closer to feudalism than socialism, in that a politically connected class were the aristocrats, instead of the capital owning class of our societies.

The feudalist societies sort of took care of everyone too.  It was primitive yes, but there was a belief that everyone should have a place in society, as far as I understand, you probably got a pretty shitty place, but the unbelievable exclusion of people like the 100s of thousands of homeless in the USA did not happen.  That's the undesirable consequences of this version of freedom. 

Capital isn't going where it needs to go.  It doesn't go to social and environmental needs.  It is tightly controlled by a cabal who use it for their own competing power games.  Capital needs to be democratically controlled, otherwise we will never get control of society, and it's the 11 hour to get control of ourselves here.  Another century of this and change is going to come, alright.  The hard way.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26358231 - 12/03/19 01:00 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with a lot of what you're saying.....

I think  a good example is the healthcare industry...... There is absolutely no reason INSULIN OR EPIPENS should be as expensive as they are..... and it purely is 100% because of greed

martin shkreli...... I hope someone kills him....
The fucked up thing is he didnt get into trouble until he defrauded wallstreet investors.....

"pigs are going to regulate themselves?"
-Bullworth..


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



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OfflineLRK
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Registered: 09/07/18
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26358281 - 12/03/19 02:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
It breeds corruption, every, single, time.




Agreed, but people are inherently greedy, jealous etc. so those same people who are responsible for the corruption will be the ones that cause socialism to fail. This has been proven with every single socialist/communist country that has ever existed.

With Capitalism you as an individual at least have the freedom to decide your own fate (albeit amongst corrupt leaders).

Again I will say that capitalism is not perfect but better than the alternatives.

The only way, I believe, any social structure can thrive is for people to let go of their hate/greed and replace that with love for others. In this way everyone would want to take care of each other and wealth will be distributed naturally.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: LRK]
    #26358318 - 12/03/19 03:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Agreed, but people are inherently greedy, jealous etc. so those same people who are responsible for the corruption will be the ones that cause socialism to fail




You prefer the current failing system to the failing system of the old USSR.

You are entitled to your opinion on these things, but neither of those systems feature broadly shared power.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26358326 - 12/03/19 03:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I dont think communism and socialism are really a 1 fits all for most leftist regimes.

The Korean definition is different than the Chinese


Whats the difference between a Stalinist and a Maoist?

The Norks are Stalinists.

I genuinely dont think I could define the difference.

Enlighten us?


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26358327 - 12/03/19 03:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

What I do know is some 40 million chinese starved to death under Mao

I forget the name of the movie...... Its about a Chinese family when the communists take over........

They were forced to produce useless grain and steel....
Just to make the regime look good


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26358340 - 12/03/19 03:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You seem to not have an understanding of feudalism nor capitalism, and the diagram is obviously not at all a parallel of feudalism nor does it describe our society. Just because a society is hierarchical does not mean it is feudalistic.


--------------------


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OfflineLRK
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26358374 - 12/03/19 04:44 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
You prefer the current failing system to the failing system of the old USSR.





You might see it that way, but I prefer to have the "freedom" to do what I want and how I want with an outcome that will be directly influenced by my own decisions.

All the other economic systems prohibits people to think outside of the box and this inevitably will slow down the economy, technological advancements and happiness among the people (to name a few).

Inequality of wealth is not necessarily the fault of the system or corruption but the problem lies much deeper than this.

Broadly shared power is also not the answer to the problem as that can skew the power of corruption even further in favour of the corrupted people in power.

A good start will be to get a hierarchy of competence, honest and law abiding people in the correct positions. But how do you measure "good" people or competence? This equation will differ for everyone...

Do you see where I am going with this?
At the end of the day there will not be a (perfect) system that works for everyone as we are all different in interest, needs, productivity etc.
But capitalism at least encourage individualism and the hardworking people will get rewarded for the work they put in.


Edited by LRK (12/03/19 05:07 AM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: LRK] * 2
    #26358527 - 12/03/19 06:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LRK said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
...That and a broad distribution of wealth.




So what are you suggesting, Socialism?
If you are history has proved it over and over that socialism don't work and almost always transforms into some form of communism at some point.

Capitalism is not perfect but it sure is better than the alternatives.




If "history has proved it over and over that socialism doesn't work and almost always transforms into some form of communism", could you give some examples of when socialism has transformed into communism, because I can't think of one.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineLRK
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26358627 - 12/03/19 07:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, I have reread my sentence and what I meant to say was "will almost always transform into some form of communism"... (English is not my first language and I do make mistakes :smile: ).

But you have skewed my sentence as well as I have not stated that it transforms into communism but rather "some form of communism" if you give it time.
Zimbabwe is a good example of this.

From the way you have structured your sentence I get the feeling you are pro socialism? (I might be wrong as you can't read emotion in a post)


Edited by LRK (12/03/19 07:43 AM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: LRK] * 1
    #26358729 - 12/03/19 09:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Socialism as practiced in Northern Europe is fine with me.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Re: Lets talk........ Feudalism...... [Re: Brian Jones] * 3
    #26358752 - 12/03/19 09:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


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